Bitcoin Forum

Dear all,

I have been doing various investments for some time. It's all completely automated, based on mathematical analysis. I focus on achieving steady returns with low risk. This is around 10% annually but with extremely low volatility, and also instant access to capital invested.

I was thinking of accepting bitcoin and starting a business as comparable low risk investments are only offered by banks at much reduced rate. Sure you can gamble your money in a casino and get 100% return in two seconds, but you can also go broke very easily. In addition by keeping your money in bitcoin, you might become rich, or you could lose much of that if the price goes down.

I understand that the people who usually read this forum are eager early adopters and have an appetite for risk. However, bitcoin has another advantage apart from being an investment vehicle in itself, and that is  that it is an easily convertible medium of exchange.

So the business would involve accepting bitcoin deposits, which are then invested with low risk and steady returns in various securities and can be withdrawn any time with added interest minus exchange fees and some marginal performance fee. The balances would be calculated in bitcoin at the current exchange rate.

I am looking for suggestion as to what the best way is to launch such a business.

You need to be able to prove that you are not setting up a Ponzi scheme. Claiming a "steady" 10% return with low risk is suspicious.

There is no way to distinguish you from a Ponzi scheme without providing detailed information about your investments, and so far you have provided none at all. Lack of transparency is suspicious.

You need to provide us a lot more info to get our trust and money.
It is not possible for us to send you our bitcoin just because you claim to have a great plan.

You are going to have to show backtested data proving your claims
Then  you are going to have to figure out a mechanism to ensure that we can trust you with our money
At a minimum, your identity is going to have to be public in some form
Also, you are going to have to prove that invested funds are indeed instantly accessible as you say

Sounds like you will sell the bitcoin and all your investment are in fiat.
So, if bitcoin price goes up more than 10% a year, the return (in bitcoin) will be negative...

You will want to start buy helping your family, friends, and acquaintances.  You will need a solid business plan.  Enlisting help from the Small Business Administration or other professionals is a good way to start a business plan.  Often a simple idea can turn into investment requiring 10's or hundreds of thousands of dollars.  For instance many laws cover forming a Money Services business or a Securities Exchange business.  You should consult a lawyer and an accountant.  You can raise funds with private investors, crowdfunding such as kick starter, or even a bank loan.  Some other ideas include an IPO with Havelock investments, starting a "Panamanian holding company" (seems popular these days), or increasing you bitcoin reputation on the reddit "web of trust."  If you are serious you may want to build a team with a business school graduate, a web designer/ system administrator, a broker, or anyone else you feel can contribute to the professionalism of your endeavor.  Good Luck.

Just buy bitcoin and hold on to and wait it out.

So this business wouldn't keep your bitcoins, but rather invest it in various low risk assets with steady return. Yes, for that first we convert the bitcoin to fiat and then do the rest. Once you want to withdraw, we convert back to bitcoin.

So what this means is that your money is not tied to the fluctuations of the bitcoin, and it earns 10% annually.

In the long term, I want to establish a company as this is a new form of investment I've been studying for some time. But before I set up the website and incorporate, I want to know if anyone actually was interested in using this service. At present the best way to deposit or withdraw bitcoins unfortunately involves a small fee, around $8.

So would you invest your bitcoins in 10% annual returns such that your investment is not tied to bitcoin price fluctuations, and it is steady and low risk with daily increments. You can complete a withdrawal in 1-2 business days. Would you use a service like this?

Thanks for your answers.

First you need to create other accounts and then loan yourself larger and larger sums of money to gain trust.

Probably focus making more in fiat, and then buy btc when its cheap.

Then use that profit to earn more?

Most members here will not be interested in any fiat investments from your company. There are plenty of funds in the market which yields over 15%, so your 10% is nothing. You may claim that your investment is low risk, but you yourself is high risk to us.

Any chance of offering 10% annual return on a bitcoin denominated investment?

IMO, the biggest problem is trust but not return.
You can find some "10% daily return" forex-trading / bitcoin trading investment ponzi in the gambling section. ;)

Of course 10% daily return is not realistic. As I said in my original post, you can get 100%/sec return, just gamble all your money on the roulette wheel and pray.

I've noted that trust is of paramount issue. So let's say this company had a legal business address in a developed country and it was secure. So you know that it's not a scam site. In this case, would you use the service? I guess if you anticipate the bitcoin going up then it wouldn't make sense, but there is always the risk that bitcoin will go down further. Are you prepared to live with risk or would you keep your money safe(er)? It's a tradeoff. Also, Bitcoin speculation is a business in itself, and there's nothing wrong with that, but this is a different business.

I've looked into offering it as bitcoin savings scheme with 1% interest, however for that I would need to do some additional financial magic, i.e. futures contract, and it looks like that with those added platform fees it may not be profitable anymore. Actually, just converting Bitcoin to fiat and back comes with some fee unfortunately, but I think it would be worth it for the global audience (I might be wrong.) as opposed to offering it only in my country as a new investment scheme. So actually, the only benefits of Bitcoin are the global reach and instant transactions.

There are funds offering 15% but at what risk. Does your money fluctuate wildly? In this case, your bitcoin amount may fluctuate, but the actual value behind it will not (it will grow daily in fiat). And if people want to keep the fluctuations out and see their savings in Bitcoin, I'm sure there is a way to do that (with less fees) but I haven't found it yet.

Ok good news. With the help of some other members of this forum I've managed to figure out a working business model. So I'm pleased to announce that I can offer bitcoin denominated savings with 1% annual rate minimum. This will be extremely low risk investments. Unfortunately, I cannot offer the instant access to capital, but rather interest will be added weekly.

Stay tuned, the site should be up in a few weeks. Let me know what you think, I'm really keen on gathering as much user feedback as possible. If you don't like the idea, or think it won't work for some reason, and I should especially focus on something (such as trust), please share your opinions.

1% per annum? Have you conducted a research? How many depositors do you expect at this rate with this level of risk? I would imagine most bitcoin users expect something like 1% a month to have them risk their coins in a financial intermediary.

What happened to the steady 10%? Very strange.


Let's look at the score so far:

1. An unknown person
2. offers an "extremely low risk" investment with a guaranteed return (was 10% and is now 1%), while
3. providing no information about the investment and
4. locking up the investor's money.

It smells like a Ponzi scheme to me.

Just to be clear, 10% annual return is when your your money is in fiat. It does not follow the Bitcoin price movement. If you want your savings to be in Bitcoin, then I can only offer 1% return. That is because it takes a lot of extra work to keep the savings in Bitcoin because the Bitcoin price is very very volatile. So I need to pay a lot of extra platform fees, which means 10% returns goes down to 1% return. However, I've found that it is in fact not possible to keep the savings in Bitcoin profitably, so I will go back to 10% return and tell you that your investment will not follow Bitcoin price movement.

In addition, I have instant access to the money. What takes long is transferring it to a Bitcoin exchange and converting it to Bitcoin. This can take several days. In addition, there are fees associated with this. So instead of telling letting everyone do their own deposits and withdrawals, and pay for the fees individually, I thought it would be better to do this once a week for everyone in a lump transaction, in which case some fixed costs can be shared.

Those 4 points are all facts, that needs to be addressed before anything.

I`d like to add onto specifics.

You need some sort of collateral as a downpayment for funds, and escrow being used.

If you seek capital without these strings attached, theres crowd source tools like kickstarter.

This process should be similar to a loan process, and depending on how much this person seeks.

What are the details that you qualify, to give you money etc.

Though there are lots of scams in the lending section, you can in fact find some legit deals with collateral and a much higher interest rate. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0

So why should we give you (an unknown person) bitcoin for no collateral and 1% annual rate?

How can you even guarantee a return? The best you could really do is less than a percent in dollars for a CD, and it's still not instant access to your money.  You could purchase some type of bond, but that's even less access.  10% return, instant fund access and low risk don't go together at all.

This post caught me completely off guard. Touche!

And @OP, you will have to provide a lot of transparency and show proof of your past (recent past as well). Not just short-term but long-term. Anyone can make a lot in a day or a week. Keeping that consistency for months or years is more difficult.

Please see https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=610293.msg6763227#msg6763227


If I upload my anonymised statement data for the past 17 months, would that suffice?

If there's any way to prove it's yours, anything helps, :).

Why is it so difficult mathematical calculations.
Just buy several stable POS coins and get income from 20 to 100% per year.

This is under the assumption that the coins don't crash. This is under the assumption that the value will stay equal to or raise. These are risks.

Its obvious those factors arent included lol.

Also theres one thing of projecting how it will turn out, then whats actually happening, when people predict #`s all day.

You lose of sight of reality on where it stands today, projecting all the time with large figures doesnt help at all.

I've created a short video screencast. please see it here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=610293.msg6800456#msg6800456