Bitcoin Forum

What happened:
I held an auction for a "2011 Casascius 1st edition coin".
Justbtcme bid 5.0 BTC via PM, which was the winning bid.
He asked me to send the coin first. Refused any escrow, "I don't trust them". Didn't accept any of my various compromise offers, didn't make any reasonable offers himself. Then stopped giving any meaningful replies at all.
The original auction OP clearly said that an escrow is to be used in regular cases.

No funds were stolen, so I can't prove 100% that justbtcme is a scammer. On my opinion this does, however, warrant a public warning.
See edit.

Profile Link:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=148389

Reference Link:
Original auction:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=579971
All correspondence via PM.

Amount in question:
Attempted sum: 5.0 BTC / "1 Casascius 2011 1st edition coin".

Payment Method:
BTC, after receiving the goods.

Proof of Payment:
----

PM/Chat Logs:
To be disclosed on request.

Additional Notes:
This is now resolved.


Edit on 2014-08-07:

After talking with justbtcme via PM and this thread, as well as reading what other business he is up to, I no longer believe he is -or tried to be- a scammer. He only backed out of some trades. Which is annoying, but not scamming. I am confident that he takes his business more serious now, and that this unnecessary drama will not repeat. Him doing quite a lot of successful trades is a good indicator for this as well.
I am leaving this thread alive for transparency reasons that this is resolved, not as an ongoing warning.
I am in friendly contact with justbtcme. I would sell to him again, would I have more coins to sell at this time.

Ente

Same with me.

Actions are similar to that type, but I never sent any coins to him without escrow/prepayment.

Take care and avoid risk.

hmm maybe justbtcme was mgk

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=566998.msg6414035#msg6414035

Sounds like a scam to me!

Scam attempt, it is nice to see it wasn't successful

He has 8 positive trust ratings from untrusted members but 7 have a negative trust and one is a newbie

Are you honestly telling me you want to buy what you bid upon, and stick to the rules you agreed upon in the auction OP?
Feel free to explain what other motivation you have for your (constant, as it seems) behavior.

Ente

lol u left me bad feed back why? it doesnt do shit lol and i never left u any feed back till now

Yay, my second reference! Thanks, justbtcme.


Gave you and notserp an explaining positive reference for this.

Ente

Sounds pretty dodgy, But i dont blame him or anybody else for not trusting an Escrow.

Yes, noone is forced to use/trust an escrow, as ridiculous this sounds to me.
But everyone who bids in an auction where an escrow is stated in the auction rules, is bound to this.
Else it's a breach of contract and a strong sign for a scamming attempt.

Ente

That's not what Ente told me. While this isn't a clear cut case of a scam, you do appear to be backing out of an auction that you won. That to me is justification for negative trust, not to mention the fact that you and your alts have been suspect from last year.

You don't want to use escrow? Fine. Pay Ente for the auction you bid on and won, and he'll ship the coin out. If not, your rating will get a bit more colorful by tomorrow.

Is there a thread for this auction?
(Like, was it stated beforehand that escrow will be used?)
Did justbtcme (again) bid by private message?

Ente

Looks like it is related to this listing which isn't really an auction - not clear if he is even selling anything at this point just getting a market analysis?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717290.msg8104555#msg8104555 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=717290.msg8104555#msg8104555)

People back out of auctions all the time around here and while I do not think it is honorable, it is not considered scamming.  My guess is that he was using the escrow as an excuse. 

I agree that the warning to future auction holders is valid if he backed out of his bid. 

Is the coin still available to be purchased?

You bought coins in three cases. You contacted the seller with a bid. When your bid was accepted, you refused to pay. For this and additional reasons you received negative reputation.
Now, tell me again, with a straight face, blackmail, forcing, what?

Ente

While it doesn't necessarily make you a scammer, it does call into question your character. When you bid on an auctioned item, you are pledging your word you will buy said item at the pledged price. When you back out without just cause, you call into question your word, character and your honesty. When you have proven to have little to no honesty then you have cause to post that you are dishonest. Dishonest people often scam.
Does this clarify things a little better?

This thread is about you and you actions. Trying to use the Bill Clinton defense doesn't work very well. If you didn't want it, you shouldn't have bid on it. You wasted a lot of people's time.

I think the key word is actually "auction".  When you are making bids in an auction format, it is not an "offer" it is a bid to buy at your communicated price.  Try going to your local auction and making "offers" for the items.  You are going to get yourself in quite a bit of trouble when you back out of your "offer".

I would suggest you refrain from participating in auctions if all of you offers are not binding until you pay.

I don't see change in your behavior, nor have the facts my negative rating is based on changed.
You ask me to remove my rating (here and via PM) giving me no reason on why that would be warranted.
You don't want to stick to the three deals you did, nor did you propose any compromise on that.

Here's a compromise I can offer you:
You bit 5 BTC on my casascius coin. As you do not seem to wish actually pay the coin you bought, I instead accept a payment of one bitcoin.
This bitcoin will be sent from an adress you can sign messages with to prove it is from you and will be sent as a donation to Seans Outpost.

This would prove me, in my business with you, that I was off with my rating.

Ente

So you want me to pay one bitcoin in order to atone for my sins......

Interesting way to formulate it.

Well, at least it's more than "Hey, I removed your neg rep, please remove mine". Which is, until now, all I can see you offering here.

Ente

Did you seriously try to cast Otoh's trustworthiness onto yourself? :)

No. Interpret it how you want.

Look at it as a fine for your actions, the negative removal is a side effect.
justbtcme, you're treating this as a mild annoyance is not helping you. Sadly you don't see anything wrong with your actions but it is wrong.
That being said, 1BTC seems excessive.

If you don't intend on keeping your word, don't bid on auctions, plain and simple.

Extortion. Plain and simple.

I admit to not following through and it is bad business but to call it a fine that I must pay ? Complete nonsense. Keep your negative feedback.

You want something from me (removing the negative rep). You did not change what was the reason for it (you not sticking to your end of deals you accepted). I made a different offer as a compromise (donating to seansoutpost). You declined.

If you believe this is a negotiation here, start negotiating and make a reasonable offer.
Else this "negotiation" is getting too expensive for me, timewise.
Ente

No need for negotiations.

I admit I was wrong and ok I will apologize for the bad business. I would not want that on myself.

As for paying a fine, I'll pass on that. Let's be a little more reasonable and not cross that borderline extortionist path that you are on.

What a faggot.

I will remove my negative in light of your apology. Please stay away from auctions as you don't consider them a serious contract to buy.

*Cheers*! The act of kindness seems to be more rare then the unicorn these days in the BTC world!

Will you honor your bids, offers and boughts in the future?

Ente

Yes  ;D

You are doing solid business in your Casascius thread.
I am not resentful and removed my reference.

See you later! :-)

Ente

Hey, you turn out to be a good guy, after all! :-P

Ente

I was hoping you didn't see that  8)