Bitcoin Forum

After a massive selloff starting at 6.3-6.4, after which over 75k coins were dumped in two installments (45k + 30k), the market has managed to bounce back to.... 6.2.

That's right, 75k coins got us from 6.3 to 6.2.  What a drop!  ;)

Not only that but there's now nearly $1.4 million in bids at MtGox.

There's no stopping this train now.   Soon enough the shakedown attempts will stop as they become less effective.  That will be the sign that strong hands are holding the coins.

Huge bidwall @5.75 just popped up. Looks like something is starting. Brace yourselves.

I see 2x50k bars on the 15 min chart that fits his description.

No idea.

That wasn't a dump. It was Bitcoinica re-distributing coins, and even the trigger was a short that got liquidated. It is likely that the same money was traded back into roughly the starting position, at least in my case it was so.

An actual 75k dump right now would remove over 437k USD from the market. I don't think that was the case here, not by a long shot.

of course it's fake.  It's also a sign that the Manipulator is on the bulls' side again ;D

This time, we have the katyushas xD

squeeze up

New daily high so it would appear we are on our way up again.

The situation is very different to what it was a few days ago. If there is a big squeeze now, it's more likely to be a short squeeze. A long squeeze would be very risky and difficult to attempt without a very large amount of money. Not saying that a short squeeze would be easy either. I don't think a massive squeeze in either direction is very likely tbh. But you never know.

And this time we really can have a short squeeze, because zhou has set aside funds for it.

Can someone give a quick explanation of short squeeze vs long squeeze?  Does a long squeeze mean that everyone who is long gets liquidated?

yes, causing a chain reaction.. same for short squeeze

You got it... just not everyone.  Only those who are overconfident are liquidated.

yeah, margin call on their leverage

shorts you can squeeze even if they are 1:1

"the man who sells what isn't hi'n, must buy it back or go to priz'n"

Thanks.  :)

I notice 53.5k BTC to $7 right now. Does that seem a lot higher than before to anyone else? This makes it seem unlikely to me we will see $7 any time soon unless most of those walls are fake.

Then again these walls could be by the manipulator who is trying to get people to short in preparation for a massive short squeeze. All it would take is several thousand coins being pulled from the order book and a few thousand coins bought to cause a snowball effect (Short Squeeze).

It does seem a lot higher than before... but I think the Manipulator is simply getting ready, as you said.

It doesn't just seem higher, it is higher.  A lot higher.  The ask side doubled in a matter of minutes a few days ago.

I'm holding short till I see what happens when we hit this impending downtrend

http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/9031/capturejxws.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/836/capturejxws.png/)

of course it could snap either way...who knows

Yeah, two days ago was a big shock for everyone so it makes sense that it is still reflected in the orderbook.

I looked at the order book on MTGox and there are a number of 1k walls spaced evenly apart near $7. To me this is a sign of a bot/manipulator and that these walls are probably not real. Anything that looks computer generated like that usually is. By my count that only amounts for about 5k of the coins but the bot could have made a mix asks at different levels.

If you look at the 300BTC groups between 6.35 and and 6.36 (3 groups) these are classical fake walls. This would require 1000BTC to go from 6.35 to 6.36 but last time we jumped to 6.36 there was not even 100BTC volume required because the walls were taken down before the orders could be executed. They were there before the price approached them and disappeared as the price reached 6.35 only to reappear after it dropped.

Someone is trying to suppress the price.

[Edit] Make that 4 groupings. Someone is trying hard.

"My money should clear tomorrow"... but will we wait?

Time to go get 'em tiger, you first  ;)

Did anyone else see those walls move as the price approached? They are now up higher but still for the same amount at 300BTC. Not exactly sure what the strategy is there unless they are trying to buy coins without raising the price.

(Update)

Was looking at the timed out clark moody data. But the coins are still higher up now. The walls were moved as I predicted. It looks like a couple of them were bought up in that big spike before they had a chance to move them from the slightly higher point they were moved to.

Taking a look-see at your downtrend, watching and waiting on the sidelines. 

I don't trust those 50k walls at all... they are obviously the same ones that disappeared at 6.4 and 6.6 2-3 days ago when we were at 7.19 with practically nothing to go to 9. Without them, there wouldn't be any real support above 5.20/40.

You fools are being played again.

And many of the ask walls are also fake meaning the resistance isn't what it would appear either. What exactly is your point and what makes you so experienced from your 80 some odd posts to be calling us fools?

We have about 1000 coins to move the price $0.01 in either one direction right now which is interesting.

indicators are all bearish. i would heed this man's advice.

If the indicators are all bearish then I trust we will have a bull market. Same in the reverse order. This is the way it has been for some time here. If everyone is posting rally rally rally then a correction is in order. If everyone is screaming crash and abandon ship then we are due for a big rally. Its really as if someone is using reverse psychology to base their large trades (has worked so far apparently).

Either way no matter what happens I am in a good position and will not be hurt. I am not leveraged and have both buys and sells at either extremes of what the possible trading ranges could be.

That's fairly inaccurate. You actually have to buy through most of these ask 'walls'. However, even if they were fake, they are substantially dwarfed in significance by what is going on with those several 10k BTCs worth of will-disappear-anytime-once-you-bought-enough-of-my-overpriced coins. You and your proud 600+ posts, which btw prove nothing of an argument other than that you got too much time on your hands and obviously no pretty gf to keep you from it, will see -  but I sure as hell don't make the same mistakes twice. My advice to anyone willing to listen would be to stay out of this blatantly manipulated market. I for one will keep up my shorts.

mmhm. you advise other people to stay out, but you short... manipulation goes both ways.

Look how cool you are trying to insult me. The number of posts means I have probably been in the community longer and have more experience than you in this market. You are clearly trading with leverage since you are shorting which means you could be liquidated and end up with zero (look at thread of the year and the impact I had on that). In fact with your smug attitude and condescending tone I now wish this upon you. I do not trade with leverage so I will never have 0.

As for having to buy through them some are real but many are pulled as they realize they are going to sell at a lower price than they can. They can't always be pulled out in time when a whole bunch of shorts get zhoutonged. I have seen large ask walls and bid walls taken down so the depth charts have to be viewed some degree of skepticism on both sides. I even provided examples of moving walls you could have watched but apparently you chose to ignore that fact.

That being said I expect a test at 5.50 again in the near future but think we will be going up as well. S03052 even said he believes we are entering Wave III which means that the price rise can resume. He charges for his analysis but from what I have heard from those who pay it is usually very accurate.

I have this vision of a war room with a huge wall sized monitor, several operator terminals buzz with activity.

On the big monitor is a bid ask table like the Clark Moody interface, the in house positions are in grey text and all other positions are yellow.

most of the text is grey.

At home I decide to place an ask near the current price for 30.7 BTC, suddenly a new yellow entry appears on the big display...30.7, the operators pay it no heed, they are out for bigger game.

haha... i can imagine it too.

The Manipulator himself is probably imagining it, while he gloats over his profits sitting in his mom's basement.  He thinks, "One day, my manipulation will make me so rich that I will cash out and build that dream home with the war room in it."

Still a bit touchy about getting zhoutonged the other day?

Over $1.6 million in bids now.  New high.  For anyone interested, before those giant zhoutongings the bids had reached an all time high of $1.3 million.  Immediately after the bids were taken down to around $650,000.  The bids have filled back in plus over $300,000 more has decided to make itself known.

:'( :'(

Expressing your opinion in a speculation forum can hardly be considered manipulation. And it is in no way nearly as manipulative as those on and off bid-walls - in fact, me disclosing my position probably makes me more honest and non-manipulative than most people around. Besides, telling people to stay out is exactly that. I could also suggest them to think about joining me in my shorts anywhere near $6 and above if they are willing to take the risk of being Zhoutonged at a short-term spike-up if that sounds more preferable to you? Either way, with me advising them to stay out I ultimately believe in a lack of substantial upward buying pressure which will inevitably make prices go South again - hence my short position. So no worries, I got my story and leverage straight.



The difference between you and me is that I don't tag along "people" who believe a post count is a valid indication of market experience and prediction accuracy. Looking at the "arguments" you provided I choose to just drastically maintain my position. And believe me when I say that I have better and more important things to do than to wrap my head around what you think would be most appropriate behavior for anyone without a 500+ post count or not - apart from the initial lulz of exposing your so obviously flawed paradigms.

And the greatest thing about financial markets is that I don't have to convince you or anyone of my opinion, I can just let my money do the talking... so in fact, my particular advice to you would be - less talk, more injections.

And as for S03052... well, if he charges for his opinion, he certainly must be a true genius, eh? There is always a 3rd wave - it will go up to $3 for sure! Cheers.

So how are those shorts holding out for you? I love how you thought you were so smart and that I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about. Doesn't look like a whole lot of dropping to me. In fact, we are up from this morning.

No, you misunderstood me.  You said
(1) The market was obviously manipulated
(2) No one should be in the market because nobody can predict the actions of a Manipulator holding it at artificial prices
(3) You shorted

However, what if the Manipulator goes the other way and pushes the price up? You're screwed.

How does my condescending tone ring to you right now? But at least you still believe in your "wisdom of post count" theory or S03052's 3rd Wave theorem for which people pay solid money for... Karma is a bitch.

Don't say the indications were not there and don't say I didn't warn you guys - you've been stripped out of your money just like I was. Trading in such obviously manipulated markets is dangerous to plain dumb at best.  One person with malicious intentions (PWMI, formerly known as "the manipulator") is not only no ground for a rally, it's a counter-argument for any serious investors - without which bitcoin value will remain below $10 for a loong time. Some people have to learn it the hard way.

Btw - did it ever occur to anyone of you guys that people have to refill their USD deposits even in times of inflation to make the value of bitcoin increase with inflation and stable enough to cover any bigger dump? Anyone of you believe that people will put more money into bitcoins when they have to pay more for food and housing? Egh.

i think the hope is one day you could pay BTC for food and housing.....

So let me get this straight. You think anyone wants to buy a house with a commodity that is known for price volatility, market manipulation and a few thousand users at best? It's not done with a few BTC-paid-for sold items, you either have to have a constant inflow of USD or a constant inflow of items. The latter will only be happening IF the fiat currencies are going to bust and the general public will revert to trading with non-Government issued currencies with bitcoin first becoming a tool of FX and then, eventually, the tool of exchange itself. Then again... in such a doomsday scenario - who is assuring the validity of the blockchains again?

Frankly speaking, I neither see that happening nor enough confidence into bitcoins for them to make it big on its own. My hopes were high and my heart bleeds, but to me it becomes more and more obvious now that this experiment has failed, and once market valuation drops below costs of network operation it will collapse. And I say this without holding any grudge against anyone of you guys.

This being said, I wish you all Good luck. Maybe there is a small chance that bitcoins are able to maintain some value by serving as means of wealth transaction... but yeah, the rest is a bubble built on dreams rather unfit for reality.

You could buy a house with gold... who's value is many many times its intrinsic value as a manufacturing material or even a commodity.  Speculation and a large, fairly liquid market has made it what it is.

This is an issue of adaptation. The gold market is the gold market because it has both enough buyers willing to stabilize prices, and not enough big sellers (as the central banks need gold as means to put value to their own little fiat currencies) to destroy faith in the maintenance of its wealth. Anyone selling a house for gold either (A) intended to acquire gold in the first place to begin with, or (B) has enough faith into it that the gold will maintain its value long enough for him/her to exchange it back into fiat with no questions asked where his or her gold came from.

Without solid foundation and wide-spread adaptation/circulation, bitcoin has neither one of these attributes. It is a dream that at least I have stopped believing into.

I don't think it's realistic in any sensible time frame.  On a long enough time horizon... I think it could happen.

Basically like you said, has to do with the value of the commodity... eventually BTC may outpace most/all fiat currencies simply by way of a limit on production.

Who knows really.  It's all conjecture until the future comes.