Bitcoin Forum

Circle has to be the worst idea in Bitcoin history; a Bitcoin central bank to centralize a decentralized cryptocurrency!  Next thing we know, there will be a Bitcoin Federal Reserve, Bitcoin Fractional Reserve Banking and, of course, Bitcoin INFLATION!

Anyone who supports the idea of DECENTRALIZED CRYPTOCURRENCY needs to IMMEDIATELY speak out against circle and its corrupt CEO Jeremy Allaire.  This is a massive ponzi scheme just waiting to happen.  They are so desperate to attract Bitcoiners that they are giving away a free $10 in Bitcoin just to get you ID-verified on their system.

This is a travesty and I am just dumbfounded that such a company could even get off the ground.  Bitcoiners need to speak out on the forums, blogs, magazines, commenting on articles - SPREAD THE WORD.

This company 'Circle' is gearing up for the biggest ponzi scheme that Bitcoin has ever known.  And if these types of centralized Bitcoin banks are allowed to succeed, it could very well spell the end of Bitcoin and a mass exodus towards other, less commercially-corrupted cryptocurrencies. 

Michael Moriarty

I am just starting to learn about Circle:
Why do you call CEO Jeremy Allaire corrupt?


Edit:
"In 1995 Jeremy D. Allaire co-founded Allaire Corporation with his brother JJ Allaire, creating the web development language ColdFusion. When Macromedia acquired Allaire Corporation in March 2001, Mr. Allaire became Chief Technology Officer"
^^^ Looks good so far....

I agree with OP.

People need to learn that if they don't own the private keys, they don't own the coins. Company's like circle can inflate bitcoin massively, just like gox inflated the bitcoin supply.

That explains a lot of things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZloserjZNfM

The concept of an open neutral system means that people are free to use it in ways that you don't like, and they're not stopping you from using it the way you like.

A great analogy is GNU/Linux. IBM can go ahead and contribute to it and load it on their own commercially-sold servers, but that doesn't stop a teenager in a third world country from learning about programming by loading Debian onto a Raspberry PI.

People: It's one thing to be concerned they are a scam, but Circle cannot literally inflate the amount of actual Bitcoins.


Great reminder ^^
Even Apple OSX is/was based on Open source, if my memory is correct.
Checking...
Yes, correct: http://www.apple.com/opensource

I hate these kind of developments. People apparently like to get screwed time after time. Fully agree with OP. And f-bernanke. And always finds these scumbags ways to destroy freedom.

No reason to get spun up yet:

1) Perusing these forums, the majority of posters are hardcore technophiles who most likely are looking for ways where they can profitably fit in the new BTC economy while it's early days. Are these hardcore types really the market for "Circle", ahhhhhhh........ no.

2) The market for circle is Pops in Kansas who has a few extra bucks to invest or some young chump from Yutzville who has more money than sense. This crowd needs some sort of security blanket, or at the minimum, the patina of some sort of fiscal responsibility. This crowd won't enter the water until they can dip their toe. So if Circle can bring in people who otherwise would not get involved in BTC at this time, it's probably a good thing.

3) Finally bitcoiners will have to get use to the idea that some corporate giant "central authority" will attempt to gen up their own cyptocurrency and try to control it.

Why?

Circle looks interesting so far. Take a look at this intro video:
https://dotsub.com/view/472e43ab-0c1c-48a4-8f38-3780e18fcff5

Things like Circle can only make Bitcoin more popular and take it mainstream. But even when Bitcoin is mainstream, there will always be ways for hackers and crypto-anarchists to use Bitcoin anonymously and untraceably.

So everyone wins.

You know what else is mainstream?  Federal reserve notes.  

It doesn't matter how mainstream bitcoin becomes if it becomes another fiat currency controlled by centralized institutions in the process.  Circle issues IOU's to bitcoin.  IOU's can and will be manipulated unless we reject any and all centralized bitcoin institutions / bitcoin "banks".

Thanks for sharing your view.
But I am worried about the effects when some bad big event occur in the case of Circle and put Bitcoin (again, like MtGox) in a negative view.
For example, lets assume that Circle will be a huge success. Sounds great right. It is. Now lets assume that the success will be so big that almost everyone will use Circle. When Circle gets too much power turn bad and they decide to destroy primary keys OR will be hacked in some way... When this happens a lot of people lost trust in Bitcoin, because they feel robbed. But this is not Bitcoins fault. It is because people trust to easy on other people. One of the primary goals of Bitcoin is (original Bitcoin document): No one can be trust (and in case you don't trust bitcoin itself, do not use it!). This primary advance will disappear if people decide to store their coins at some place other than by themselves (brainwallet / paper wallet / local pc)

Sorry for my bad English

First of all please explain why do you call him corrupt..

Next why do you call this a ponzi scheme?

A ponzi is one where you the company collects your money and promises a large sum later, but in this case, is there such a promise like that?

After all this is just an insurance backed wallet storage sevice..

Think about all those who suffered in that Mt.Gox crisis...

Now think about how an insurance backed instutution will help people have confidence in this already FUD filled bitcoin world.

Circle also has no transaction fees and buying or selling fees...

This kind of service is really needed for bitcoin to go mainstream especially in developing countries

The idea sounds bad for me too. Why should we centralize a non centralized currency just like said.

http://bitcoinpete.com/2014/05/16/who-sucks-more-circle-or-twobitidiot/

It doesn't appeal for me neither, but they demoed features which could be very useful for newbies. Instant covnersion, no fees, insurance, etc.

I'm more concerned about the sustainability of their services. Free insurance, no fees, allegedly very good infrastructure...sounds too good to be true.

Not to mention that if circle gets many clients paypal won't hesitate to capture this market.

We need services like Circle. It is good for the less tech savvy users. Of course, we also need decentralized exchanges and dark wallets (and BTC ETF). Something for everybody. You don't have to use Circle.

Centralizing Bitcoin is one thing, developing a centralized Bitcoin service (one of many) is another thing. If you don't like Circle, don't use it and continue to use Bitcoin as you do now. This is for the unwashed.

What Hunyadi said.

1st: I am the strongest fan of this Decentralized Monetary Revolution.

2nd: No 'centralized' organizations can captivate nor 'control' Bitcoin.

3rd: Empty statements that the CEO is corrupt without references wiz right past my ears. (is the competition of Circle fuming already???)

4th: No one is going to control my "savings wallet" and it's private keys but myself. Nor should anyone that has nary a clue let anyone control larger amounts for them either.

 That said the best financial service will likely end up as my "Online Bitcoin checking/purchasing/spending account" for ease of use. aka an Online Spending Wallet. Toss in viable insurance and free transactions costs for purchases and it's a huge winner as long as other things like markups to and from Bitcoin to fiat isn't unreasonable for the Mainstream folks. But a word of caution; just don't try and play online poker/gaming with any Circle account in the USA. There is a warning in their terms about that for USA based accounts, after all their playing by the rules and laws here, unlike Wall Street, and Banksters, whom change the rules when they lose and turn their losers back into winners, much the same for Congress and certain others for that matter.

5th: I believe that Circle is the Biggest thing to happen yet to Bitcoin, that is if their ducks are all in a row, and it proves to be a solid run organization. After watching the video I believe the CEO has extremely good credibility, but only time will prove everything out. To sum it up I have no problem with anyone with solid business plans including any company that cares to offer Bitcoin financial services. How could anyone attempt to freeze any business endeavor out by screaming about  so called phony threats of 'centralization of Bitcoin'. What nonsense.

6th: One major big event after another is going down starting in January 2014. From Overstock to Tiger Direct to now quite likely the biggest and best thing yet for Bitcoin. From here out things get mighty exciting. With or without Circle there is an army of big guns arriving on scene over the next months directly ahead.

2014 is THE YEAR OF BITCOIN
----------------------------------

 And here we have the OP worried about the impossibility of the centralization of Bitcoin by financial firms. Wrong. No one can centralize a Decentralized Cryptocurrency. The genie is out of the bottle. It's a done deal. Bitcoin is Free and can't be stopped, nor captured, by any enemies, unless they purchase it all up, and if so then we all semi-retire and start all over with another Bitcoin, lol.

 I have a strong suspicion Circle is going to be a huge success with their business model, like it or not. Of course if so their competition is either going to be forced to compete and offer the same great deals or perish. That's the joy's of real competition, it gets better for customers, unlike what we suffer under today in almost the entire world.

 Don't fret OP. No one can centralize Bitcoin. It's not possible.



Bitcoin is Freedom.

read the terms, they put a lien on your coin as soon as its deposited. they then use those coins to trade for their profit AKA fractional reserve

where the total bitcoins on members balances. DOES NOT equal the total holdings in cold store. its not used as a reserve. its used as trading money. no wallet provider should EVER take your bitcoins and then play with them behind the scenes. if they want to do it, they should stick with FIAT.

if they make a bad gamble and lose coins, yes its protected by their insurance (kind of). but most insurance companies do not pay out simply on request multiple times per year, they usually do it when there is no other way out. so circle would probably keep their investing losses a secret from the public and continue with the less coin to attempt to recoop losses, without publicising it. after all if they did publicise it, they would see soo many withdrawal requests, they would be left in debt.

thus until totally in unrecoverable debt to make an insurance claim, you will never know the true reserve they have backing the balances of their customers..

we dont need fractional reserved investments paying for bitcoin business profits. as it never ends well. EG first meta putting funds into MTGOX, then losing it. and the women in charge ends up committing suicide. while brock pierce walks away selling off his stake in the first meta company.

I'm a big fan of the Bitcoin protocol!

Thought Circle's implementation was a great idea. Am I missing something here?

How does it differ from any operating Bitcoin business/exchange like; Bitstamp, Coinbase, Kraken?

Once you transact with them, you can immediately withdraw your BTC, can you not?

th beleif is that when depositing, most people leave funds in there and only withdraw about 10% at any one time. this leaves 90% sitting in their 'cold store'/'reserve'

the way circle profits is to play with this 'reserve' either on private trades or on exchanges. just making a small 1% here and there to cover their costs. thus customers dont get to pay any fee's as the profits are traded behind the scenes away from the customers eyes.

and look how FIAT turned out for the banking industry with their behind the scenes trading so that customers can have fully insured funds in thier bank balance without paying large banking fee's.

bitcoin should NOT be about trusting third parties with your wealth. if anything you should only use circle for 2 reasons

1. easy way to buy bitcoins and transfer it ALL to your own personal cold store
2. only keep daily spend amounts in their wallet for easy day-to-day spending

Interesting point, once again Frank,

Will query their T/C's with support team. They should not be able to conduct stock market trading using customer's funds as leverage.
If they did this with only their company's profits and obtained agreement from their shareholders, then that's ok with me.

I planned on using them just to acquire BTC, always withdrawing full amount, as you have suggested.
Likewise, if I use their service as an alternative for Bitpay.

Thanks for bringing this issue to our attention Frank. 

They could accept a bunch of customer deposits and then start operating on a fractional reserve.

They could play the market, effectively taking a short position, using customer deposits.

Wall Street loves that doing that shit.

Absolutely not. Is Circle a good idea? I don't know. However, if it truly makes buying Bitcoin as easy as they claim, I'm willing to give it a shot. There is something wrong with how difficult it is for newcomers to Bitcoin to actually get a hold of any. Circle does not "centralize" Bitcoin any more than PayPal centralizes the dollar. It's a money services provider, and you have a choice whether or not to use it.

They are legally prohibited from doing so as a registered MSB.

Don't you think the community pressure and their future competition will force them to implement something like proof of solvency/reserve?

They can just lease the coins for the proof of solvency...

oh and by the way.. by signing up to them you waive your right to ever make a class action lawsit against them, and instead accept to have arbitration as the only method of recourse.

Its sad to see these members bad mouth new companys and ideas coming into the bitcoin world.  If all these new startups fail and the millions of venture capital dollars is wasted bitcoin is going down the drain.  We need to support company's like circle even if us early adopters arnt going to use them.  I was under the impression we all want mainstream adoption?  Or do you guys only want people to use bitcoin the way you use it?

bad mouthing costs nothing. if the business is fully legit and works correctly, even if they have a million people insulting them.. then the business will continue,

take facebook for instance. i can count many millions bad mouthing facebook due to selling customer data, making private conversations public, peoples private photos public and a whole host of other user issues that are factual.......... yet facebook still runs and gets the investment it needs to pay its staff.

what should never happen though is when there are gripes, issues and problems that need addressing. is for people to stay quiet and let the snowball tumble and get worse. or to cause people to become victims as they thought the business was 'perfect' due to people biting their lips, purely to be nice.

a perfect business i would endorse is one that i cant find any loop holes or risks in..

And what does that mean, exactly?

Just that they'll have to be bought out and/or lobby the right regulator before the games can start.

Haha, good man! Just read through their lengthy User Agreement and picked up on that too  :)

However, can not find any suggestion of private/fractional trading using customer funds as leverage. It's my understanding that this would be in breach of their MSB license and FinCEN compliance. Interestingly, their parent company Circle Internet Financial Limited, is organized under the laws of Ireland (collectively, “Circle”). Not sure, but by transferring their company assets to Parent, can they negate their USA Tax liabilities, akin to Apple?

That's so insanely cynical for a business that should not be used to store massive amount of Bitcoins anyway. Seriously, when you buy an Amazon giftcard do you think "They'll discontinue gift cards and move to a country where I can't sue them?" You are bad mouthing a company that, as of yet, has done nothing wrong.

We know that bitcoin "banking" services are not the best idea. I see the points OP is trying to make and I fully understand why he thinks members of a currency built around the idea that there won't be any need for centralised money controll should not support a a "Bitcoin Bank". But from the looks circle is much more than just that. It seems like a project aiming to make bitcoin more accessible to the general public. Adoption could only be good for bitcoin.


FYI I as well don't like the idea of crowdfunding (remember neo and bee?). Banks for bitcoin tend to not end well too! (FlexCoin anyone?)

Circle is a HUGE leap forward for Bitcoin. I was blown away by their video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgzu-QwzW3M).

Everyone keeps talking about taking Bitcoin mainstream, well, this is the way to do it. The user experience Circle showed is what Joe Average expects. Typical users are not going to download Armory or create a bootable Ubuntu USB stick. They will also crinkle their nose at a bid or ask. These are the same people that use 123456 (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-25-most-common-passwords-of-2013/) as a password.


I agree. IMO the best local storage hope for these people will be some two piece, multisignature hardware solution for convenient yet secure coin usage. In the meantime people need a far less intimidating way to become familiar with cryptocurrency. Most people learn to ride a bike before learning to drive a car.

Yes, these types services can engage in fractional reserve banking, but that's not a problem. The minute there is a sign of trouble there will be a run on the bank. That's how banks fail. The problem occurs when banks become too big to fail. Fortunately, since bitcoins themselves can't be fictitiously produced central banks and governments have no way to bail out banks without giving away real wealth. So banks fail, and people who entrusted them completely lose out. Life goes on. In the meantime Bitcoin provides proof of reserves as competitive advantage to all players in the space.

Arbitration is a good way to settle things I doubt you can waive your right by Jury or Class action unless u signed your Arbitration settlement documents, and you would be getting some form of acceptable payment in your settlement or you wouldn't sign it in the first place. It could possibly be a way of forcing you to sit down and talk about it first in arbitration proceedings before your allowed to sue or launch a class action.

Wow.  Good diggin in Franky.

If this is true (they are doing fractional reserve and essentially "gambling" with people's deposits) , then
The community needs to know about this.  

This doesn't sound good.

exactly. they have circle san fransisco, circle massachusets, circle ireland. treated as 3 different elements. so the SF office is the MSB and the other 2 do other tasks. more then likely the ireland one will be doing the private trading.

after all with no fee's.. how do you think they are going to make money/profit to pay labour, licences, server costs.

and as for the fincen compliance, that only covers the FIAT reserves.. it has not much control or law in regards to the bitcoin reserves

This is what it actually says on there site.

Full Reserve Bitcoin. As a regulated Money Transmitter in the United States, we are required by law to maintain full reserves – e.g. we must maintain 100% of customer deposit value and are not permitted to invest those assets for our own profit. Moreover, we are required by law to provide audited financials that prove our full reserves and associated accounting to government agencies.

You call it cynicism, I call it "learning from history".

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=83794.0

Anyone half way smart is going to say "what's the point of this? I don't get any bitcoin at all". You get to spend fiat money through bitcoin retailers, but with the bitcoin exchange rate affecting your fiat balance. Even someone dumb enough to sign up will end up thinking "huh?"

And any insurance payout? Expect fiat, deposited to your bank account. Nervous bitcoin adopters should be using Coinbase.com or Safello, this business model is just going to confuse or alienate new users.

If you can now buy and sell btc for FREE with your credit card, who will still use fee-based exchanges? From the video demo, I don't see a spread. If there is, please point us to the source.

If you are concerned with Circle holding to your private key, just withdraw your btc as soon as it appears in your account. Simple!

I think they're prominently displaying account balances in USD because that's what people are familiar with, and use to make decisions. It's sort of the same way Blockchain.info has USD value in the upper right corner. I noticed Jeremy kept saying 'digital money' which might be a good way for people to think of it too. As for the exchange rate affecting the fiat balance that could be a good thing too if, as many of us expect, the exchange rate keeps going up. It wasn't mentioned explicitly in the video, but I'm guessing Circle will also let people choose whether to hold their actual account assets in crypto or fiat, meaning the balance of the other would rise or fall accordingly.

I don't think so, unless add funds cater to add btc funds as well.

In the video Jeremy says something like it's a way to "hold and use digital money securely". To me that means by default accounts actually hold cryptocurrency assets, though the USD value may be displayed. He certainly did a demo of sending BTC to Overstock to make a purchase. If the account only had fiat then to make that purchase the fiat would have needed to be converted to BTC on the fly.

Sounds like a bunch of baseless FUD, but thanks for bringing them to my attention.  I'll be looking into what they have to offer.  I would never transfer all of my BTC to a single party, but if they incorporate multisig addresses and learn from the mistakes of other organizations, then they may very well be providing a valuable service.

Hey the owner of CNet announced that Bitcoin could never be a currency because its too volatile, so instead, he's pegging it directly to FIAT and creating a service around that horrible idea.

Expect the many dummies who care nothing for the ideology behind Bitcoin to continue to come up with solutions that contradict the entire purpose of Bitcoin

-B-

remember guys american financial LAW concerns american finances. bitcoin is not in american juristion and control/law. so i highlighted
key word in red. the financial regulations are about FIAT.. so they cant use fiat for other investments by law... they are required to maintain full FIAT reserves by law..

the law concerns fiat.. a Full Reserve Bitcoin is just policy not law. i truly hope they stick to 100% bitcoin reserves though. and reveal how exactly the do actually make profits, as it would be interesting to know..

I see your point, but I was thinking that spending bitcoins at retailers is secondary to using bitcoins as a store of value.

What seems huge to me is the ability for new adopters to instantly purchase with their credit cards.  It looks like they are running real-time credit checks, and allowing purchases based on credit ratings (although I still don't understand how they are getting around the identity theft problem).  

If people can sign up for an account quickly, get $10 of BTC for free, and then purchase bitcoins with credit card, I think this could have a significant effect on bitcoin demand should a new rally emerge.  Think about it:

Friend: "Hey, how are those bitcoins things doing lately?  Are they still around?"

Bitcoiner: "Yes, in fact the currency just eclipsed its previous all-time high of $1262 from November."

Friend: "Oh really?  So it's still growing, hey?  Do you think it will shoot up like it did last time?"

Bitcoiner: "It could happen."

Friend: "How do I buy them?  Maybe just $100 in case it goes up.  And I don't want my bitcoins to get hacked and my computer is full of viruses."

Bitcoiner: "The easiest way to get started is with Circle.  You can buy them now with your credit card and Circle will hold them for you.  When you learn more about proper bitcoin security, you can manage them yourself if you choose so that you retain full control of your funds."


This seems like a good thing for bitcoin.  

I should add that in my discussions with friends and people I meet, there is definitely untapped demand to hold bitcoin.  Here's an example of how Circle would be useful to me:

One of my friends really wants to invest $5,000 in bitcoin.  He wants me to help him.  But here's the problem: (a) if I show him how to buy and store bitcoins, I am very confident he will lose them, (b) if I store the bitcoins for him, then I am taking on a liability that makes me uncomfortable.  So I do nothing and he never buys.  

But with something like Circle, because they enforce 2FA via a phone, the site security should be high by default.  Because they require identification, if he forgets everything there's probably still some way Circle can recover his account.  Most importantly, I can feel comfortable helping him get setup without taking on liability myself or putting me in an ethical dilemma.  

Its all about the free bitcoin....it's only about the free bitcoin.

i love circle, thats what we need for mass adoption  :)

I like the idea.  If it works and it becomes big, it'll be nice.  I am a fan of making multisig really easy so that a bulk of my bitcoin will be secured, easily and safely.  But then smaller amounts can be in places like coinbase, circle, or bitpay for transactions.  I really think this is a big development for bitcoin.  Some legitimate and big businesses getting involved, rather than meeting a dude at a coffee shop and trying to buy bitcoin on your laptop.  That just isn't realistic if bitcoin wants to become serious.  Right now, bitcoin is a great idea, but the practicality of using it isn't that great.  It is slow (my credit card transaction clears in 5 seconds), it is difficult to use (downloading wallets, making cold storage, encryption....), it has confusing technology and terms.  Major players like circle can simplify it.  They aren't making it centralized, no more than the huge mining pools or the exchanges are centralized already. 

After watching the video, a couple of comments.  One, I'm glad they force people to use 2FA.  That alone should greatly decrease the chance of an outside hack on users.  Second, is this really a storage service?  It seems like your fiat is only converted to Bitcoin when you spend it.  Essentially you take away the volatility risk because if you deposit $100, it remains $100 until you spend it rather than instantly converting to Bitcoin at the current exchange.  What I can't figure out is how these guys make money.  There has to be a fee or a spread somewhere.

Circle sounds pretty good to me. Yay Circle! :) (I think Mr Moriarty here could have a spotty connection to either of truth or reality.)

I'm wondering on what basis you are calling him corrupt?   They have done a pretty good job so far at keeping what they have in development a secret, but from what I have read up to this point, they seem to have some good ideas in the works.

I read in some article, that they were trying to implement some sort of insurance into the infrastructure, which could be massively good for mainstream adoption.   Psychologically this could help people that are not super technically savvy (that are on the fence about Bitcoin), have more peace of mind in using cryptos.

I am thinking OP is actually promoting the Circle online wallet, throwing in that "you get money if you sign up" line...

well played Circle

i would love the idea of such a storage service but as you can see in the video, the dollar value changed!

I talk more about the 'Circle Scam' in my interview on CryptoCoinsNews:

http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/exclusive-interview-bitcoin-networks-dr-michael-moriarty-stanford-phd-becomes-bitcoins-doc-ock/2014/05/17

Circle says they don't care about profitability. No deposit or withdrawal fees, no storage fees, no transaction fees AND insurance.

Nice business model - everything is free.  Where does the money come from?  Big VC firms like Andreesen Horowitz. 

All well and good, but what happens when their $26 million in VC funding runs out?  What happens if they can't score another round of funding?  What happens when they start dipping into your cold storage wallet just to keep the operations afloat?

Sure, Circle sounds like a panacea for Bitcoin newbies. Free, easy to use, safe.  It might be easy to use, but you have to sacrifice your financial privacy.  And it won't be free forever or the company will go out of business. And SAFE?  You've got to be kidding me.

Look, just because a company is funded with millions of dollars, incorporated and regulated doesn't mean ANYTHING.

MtGox, BitInstant, BitFloor ... seriously, the list is endless.  The only truly SAFE Bitcoin is that which is held offline in your own personal wallet, certainly NOT on a big exchange like CoinBase or Circle.

Bitcoiners really need to smarten up and stop trusting these mega-companies with their money.

This is horrifying, the whole point of bitcoin was DECENTRALISED BANKING.
Yet this website tries to undermine bitcoin by making you tie all your info togeather

Uhhh, Information harvesting much?
No, you DONT get to know what i'm buying with MY money
"Actually here at circle, you own credentials that say you have access to the money, but you don't own it, so when you spend your portion of our money, we feel we have the right to see what it was for"
"From there we can dispense customised advertisements and try to sell you products, we Could also prevent purchases this exact same way"

That would all be great, but that's not possible using Circle's system. There seems to be no direct access to the bitcoin, or at least not the way their accounts are depicted. Withdrawals are fiat only. It's like a consumer level bitcoin ETF.

Then why TF r they talkin bout multisig?

I don't get it why so many angry replies. It's voluntary to use the service. If you find it useful, use it. If you don't, don't!

Sure, i won't run to them with my cold storage, but if service is cheap (or free), works great, has ton of useful features... great, I'll gladly hand them some of my pocket money.

For many others (newbies or technically illiterate persons) this may be the safest option, though.

Beats me. Multi-sig where the customer hold 0 of N keys, that's really got me sold.

"Bitcoin central bank to centralize a decentralized cryptocurrency" - it does not obey my logic

Who's angry?  I think we're mostly just confused.

Someone should get on the phone with these guys and ask the key questions.

To the OP, I dont see what all the drama and accusations are over.

Jeremy Allaire was the CTO at Macromedia and involved with major software technologies like Adobe Flash and Cold Fusion, as well as other ventures.  His company is well funded with VC money and visible like bitpay and coinbase.  He was a keynote speaker at this year's NYC bitcoin conference and has a lot of vision of taking bitcoin more mainstream that only helps all of us.

I see Circle as Coinbase with improvements like: credit card deposit and withdrawls, potentially no fees, insurance, enforced 2FA, multisig, instant btc purchases vs waiting 4 days.  The AML/KYC questions are a necessary evil to doing business in the U.S. to comply with FinCen MSB requirements.

Like Coinbase, Circle is trying to make bitcoin more mainstream and easy to use for your average user.  This only helps the overall bitcoin network.

I think you are out of line, making baseless accusations with no facts to support them.

The fact that Mr. Allaire was involved with Adobe Flash should hardly be re-assuring.  Adobe Flash is one of the most vulnerable, flawed and security-hole-ridden software products on the market!

Not only that, Bitcoin is OPEN SOURCE CRYPTOCURRENCY.  How can Mr. Allaire's experience with a greedy, closed-source company like Macromedia possibly work to his advantage in the Bitcoin world? 

Actually, the fact that this guy has been involved with Adobe/Macromedia should be a HUGE RED FLAG against him instead of a selling point!

The only reason he is the CEO of Circle is because of his connections to venture capitalists.  This guy has NO BUSINESS entering the Bitcoin world whatsoever!

Circle is the exact OPPOSITE of what Bitcoin needs. Instead, people should be endorsing something like BitGo which offers multisig wallets, ensuring that not even the website owner can withdraw a user's cold storage funds.  Multi-sig is definitely the future of online wallets. 

Which do you think is more trustworthy? A multi-sig wallet or a Bitcoin central bank like Circle which won't even provide the private keys to YOUR Bitcoin holdings?

If you don't know the answer, then you need to learn more about Bitcoin ...

Actually no one can prevent FRB from happening, as long as there is a demand for users to store their coins on platform. But the risk of a bank-run only impact its users, e.g. if the bank/platform goes down, users lose all or majority of their coins on that platform, just like MTGOX

So people will still store majority of their coins offline in a brain wallet / paper wallet / secure USB key

Are you sure about this?  Jeremy demonstrated an Overstock purchase and I'm assuming this was a bitcoin payment to a Coinbase-controlled address.  Do you think they lock out spending except to safe payment processors?  But even if that's the case, what's stopping the user from invoicing himself via Coinbase? 

I just can't imagine that there'd be no way to withdraw bitcoins.  I think this needs to be verified. 

I have been following this thread silently but since I saw what jabo38 wrote above it somehow became clear to me.....

This is the only way for Bitcoin to become mainstream and widely accepted.

The only problem I see here is trust......
You see, the way I see it is that, I would rather trust the blockchain rather than a bank.
That said, I live in Cyprus so I am a bit cautious when it comes to banking and stuff.

However, the need for a "bank" type of Bitcoin service is required if Bitcoin is to EVER be FIRST: Understood by the mass, and THEN accepted by the mass.

Now the traditional way might be a bit complicated for the average Joe, but a service that acts like a bank - not necessarily being Circle - could simplify things.

GREAT!!!!!

But do you trust a bank?

Well, no....
BUT......
It's unavoidable!

Let's take Bitcoin away for a second and think.....
how long has the banking "corporations" been around?
Long time huh?

Why you think that is?

IN SHORT....
Because people like to feel "secure".
So they intrust their "money" to a "secure" corporation to look after it for them for a "small" fee.
They even promise to give them interest for intrusting their money to them - but don't tell them that they give out most of their money out as loans and make 10X as much from it.

Now, I will not go down that road of how the banks f*ck you but to get to the point....
A LOT of people know this by now but they don't, or feel powerless to do anything about it so they go a long.

You know why?
Because dealing with a bank OR declaring tax to the gov is unavoidable, UNLESS you run a business on SilkRoad.
(and still how you gonna launder that out?)

So, the question is:

How do we go about it?

Do we fight every single company that "tries" to centralize (if that is even possible) Bitcoin?

OR

Do we embrace innovation?


That being said....
And Circle aside,

I DO believe we need a banking type of service for Bitcoin for it to be widely accepted.
That also being said,
I also think that for ANY banking type corporation to succeed in this they must follow (Bitcoin) protocol.....
And that is decentralization.......

Possible???????????






 

watch?v=ZloserjZNfM

Is youtube is giving out vanity URLs now?

I enjoy watching you squirm. This is exactly what bitcoin needs. No one is forcing you to use.

You guys just dont get it.  The masses dont even know what private keys are and dont want to know.  They want to use bitcoins just like there online fiat bank account.  They WANT to trust a third party cause they dont want to have to deal with keeping there own coins secure.  Speaking out against these new services is saying you want bitcoin to stay in the secluded techy world.  Just my 2 cents.

I agree with you.  As long as they offer the option to withdrawal coins and do multisig, it's good.

Looking forward to when they inevitably implement fees and everyone gets pissed off  :P

Bitcoin _requires_ no central services of any kind...people do.

But should centralized services be _forbidden_? Clearly they can be no more forbidden than they can be required. Bitcoin will go on with or without centralized infrastructure...the exchange value of bitcoins, however, is very dependent on it's utility. I think Circle will help many people find Bitcoin useful that otherwise would not be able to use it.

+1

Wish that I had said it first :D. Well said bro.

As a BTC community we should be concerned with protecting BTC's code only. Cause messing with it could possibly fuck up the entire experiment.
That's all! Protect BTC but let ppl test things.

Good luck with that argument on this forum.  I'm no fan of banks, especially after recently having my corporate account forcefully closed with no recourse or an admission of the real reason.  However, they are a needed system for a modern economy, and Bitcoin will need bank-like systems if it expects to cope with the transaction speed that people expect these days.

Bitcoin "banks" will happen.  You don't have to use them.  But if you want to be able to go to a restaurant or a store and pay with Bitcoin as quick and easy as a credit card, you're going to need a third party that will insure 0-conf transactions.  The two easiest ways to do that are a payment processor that offers vendors insured 0-conf transaction processing at the cost of a higher merchant fee (and service cancellations for high risk vendors), or a bank/banking network where the user has funds stored online in advance to be used for point of sale purchases.

I agree that this point needs more clarity, but the information from the articles at Coindesk and Forbes indicated fiat-only withdrawals. Notice that the video demonstrated the Circle web-app handling a bitcoin URI. Users could provide a wallet address of their own to the Circle software in a URI, but it doesn't take alot of tweeking to the software to force a Payments Protocol message in place of a URI (and remember that Bitpay and the rest of the processors are imminently rolling out the Payments Protocol). So there may be outright technical barriers (requiring CA signed payment requests), ranging down to barriers defined by the skill level or courage of the user (supplying a self selected address in a URI). All this remains to be seen, there's no public signups allowed yet.

If this is the way to make using bitcoin less painful for newbies with less tolerance for the details, then it might be an admirable attempt at that. I'm not so sure of the approach, confronting the "confusing nature" of the exchange rate issue from the outset is less painful in the long term (the analogy to me is the classical "ripping of the band-aid off instantly").

Maybe Circle have a tactic for presenting the denomination information in a way that is progressively more easy to understand, as they also say they have further products in the pipeline. They are displaying the BTC value after all, but just de-emphasising it. Those that can take a savvier approach will use that information when they are ready to.

First, I disagree that banks are needed for a modern economy; in fact, banks simply cause INFLATION by printing money (central banks, that is).  There ARE other economic systems.  Barter is not very practical, but a demurrage currency for everyday use would have prevented the hoarding and financial inequality which has arisen over the past hundred years.   Anyways, the statement 'banks are needed for a modern economy' should really be supported with some sort of argument.  Many people will not simply take your assertion for granted. I, for one, will not.

Second, I do agree that Bitcoin 'banks' will be launched.  I am a total free market economist and I am not saying the government should step in and ban circle.  I am simply trying to get the word out that a bitcoin 'bank' goes against the very spirit of Bitcoin, which is decentralized currency.  I'm simply saying; don't use them!

Finally, I totally disagree that a Bitcoin 'bank' is needed for Bitcoin to break the brick-and-mortar barrier and become accepted at a wide range of merchants. Are 0-conf transactions absolutely essential for small-scale purchases? Do you really think someone would go to the trouble of trying to double-spend 0.01 bitcoins he paid for a hamburger?  I seriously doubt that would EVER become a problem. If it did, then obviously merchants could switch to an altcoin with faster transaction times like Litecoin. 

I do not see ANY reason that Bitcoiners OR merchants need a service like Circle. 

Things like circle bring wallst, i do embrace them

Your 2 cents was worth quite a bit more before Gox played by the rules you describe - much to the detriment of a lot of people, techy and non-techy.

and

Moriartybitcoin
at: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/exclusive-interview-bitcoin-networks-dr-michael-moriarty-stanford-phd-becomes-bitcoins-doc-ock/2014/05/17
Moriartybitcoin
"...We’re launching an anonymous exchanging service at CoinChimp.com to enable people to buy and sell bitcoin easily and anonymously with fiat money.  We encourage people to withdraw the Bitcoin they buy from us to an electrum wallet on their laptop.  This is a fairly challenging venture for us, but we hope to provide an alternative to the big exchanges like CoinBase.  None of the sites on my network require ID verification and we report absolutely NOTHING to government agencies..."


Slightly edited.

 Dear Moriartybitcoin,

 Thank you for sharing your opinions and I for one am glad your here in the Decentralized Monetary Revolution. And thanks for sharing your thoughts and beliefs. I mean that. But I do disagree with some of your positions such as being concerned about government interventions or any regulations.

 Best of luck on your businesses Moriartybitcoin, and I wouldn't fret over Circle, Coinbase or any other financial services businesses that you deem to be 'too centralizing and/or too conforming' from what I gathered you believe after quickly reviewing the article at the link above.

 I firmly believe everyone that is briefed on Decentralized currencies will be in favor of them existing along side the worlds various legal tender currencies except the 0.01% whom thrives under the current repressive and exploitative Central Banking Schemes. And even that 0.01% is powerless to stop Bitcoin no matter what. Their best off adoring it instead too.

 As for where Circle will earn their money, it's obviously going to earn it somehow, likely in many forms and fashions. Circle surely has devised alternative means, and as long as their markup to and from Bitcoin is not excessive their likely to thrive no matter what else as long as it's extremely well managed.


NEXT:

 Bitcoin is much like a corporation that cannot be killed. There is nothing to fear with Bitcoin for anyone. Nor any Bitcoin businesses. There are over 7 billion souls onboard this ship called earth. That's a whole lot of potential customers. Just ask Microsoft or Google about that, and they both 'Get Bitoin' too, bigtime. Hurray!


 The current, main point is to let everyone have an escape hatch from failing fiat currency schemes.
==============================================================

Only civilized, caring, decent, moral societies will allow it.
Fine, the rest can do Bitcoin Underground, anonymously, securely.
Many Bitcoin Business Opportunities for those with lots of talent.
So Wonderful.
Much to do.
Enjoy.


 Now just don't go screwing the pooch and muck things up for yourselves.

 There is big business to take care of. Do it wisely, prudently, and don't dare get sloppy nor take any shortcuts.

 Do it as flawlessly as possible.


Next:

 China will never be able to stop it's subjects from buying/selling/trading Bitcoins. That's another place where anonymous financial service's can come in to play, hugely into play, in various ways.

 Today Bitcoin is the best and easiest way to get larger amounts of funds out of China but then there is also the need for conversion to another currency type quite often too. For that reason alone Bitcoin will thrive in China and beyond, legal or not, to even merely possess it, in such places. That will be the theme for any country that dare try's to outlaw or ban Cryptocurrencies. They will ultimately fail: the entire country will fail (their governments will fall).


 But...


 NO GOVERNMENTS can hope to stop Bitcoin, ever.
================================


 Bitcoin is out of the bottle, and no one can possibly stop it or put it back into the bottle no matter what. I firmly believe that. And no amount of FUD is going to sway me either. Developers will take care of Bitcoin, and keep it safe from every possible threat throughout the future years, decades and centuries ahead. Bitcoin too will evolve and keep getting stronger. Until eventually something outpaces it. That's extremely likely a long ways off. Bitcoin has already proven to be the Ebay of Currencies. Bitcoin is THE WINNER, hands down. I hedged my bets for 2013, and then in January 2014 I declared Bitcoin hands down THE WINNER. It will likely take the lion's share of the marketplace. But there is room for a few serious competitors, which by the way is best for Bitcoin.

 Competition isn't a sin. - J. Paul Getty was wrong. Competition is what makes us thrive, what makes things better, what causes innovations such as Bitcoin and this Decentralized Revolution starting with Bitcoin.


 Neither can our Evil Banksters hope to stop Bitcoin either. Finally some scientist(s) found at way to neuter our real masters (Banksters).
======================================================================================

 God bless Satoshi Nakamoto - is a person or group of people who created the Bitcoin protocol and reference software, Bitcoin Core.


Next:

 The Banksters too can all enormously benefit from bitcoin and grow into it too, just like everyone last person on this earth. This is their escape from their past too, if only their wise enough to do so. And it's either that or elimination from the scene. They have a choice, evolve or fail. Finally governments too are entirely fed up with their real masters (Banksters - Central Banks). The Central Banks are not stupid, they know this. And they failed all of their mission objectives these last 100 years. Their track record speaks volumes. For that matter so do the majority of Bitcoin startups so far. Let's be wise enough not to be insane (Doing the same thing over and over, and then expecting better results eventually). Unfettered greed and fraud has again destroyed our worlds. Lets start anew, and not be insane focusing on greed while practicing fraud and other dubious schemes. Get real, or step aside because major deep pockets are rushing into bitcoin, in a huge way. And like Circle it's all hush hush until WHAM.


Next:

 Just imagine not having the governments of this world being forced to paying interest on their debts through the issued of debt based fiat schemes. Just imagine the savings that will bring to every last country!!! And yes...the Banks can still make earnings and have a place, or be Nationalized. Either way we all win, except the 0.01% that will be forced to get by on a bit less than before.

 ex: Today the USA spends nearly HALF a TRILLION Dollars per year just on Interest payments, and that's at all time record low interest rates. Soon these monetary schemes end as so termed QE to Infinity soon causes unsustainable amounts of debts and especially unsustainable interest payments. Then quickly officials get together again (*already they did that 3 times in the last century alone), and they will quickly launch new schemes and debt restructuring. We wont collapse, instead things will restructure, maybe bring out new currency(s), surely many bond holders will finally be forced to take severe haircuts. But it will certainly be financially painful, and painful in many other ways for most. Financial Depressions suck. We have been in a slow motion Depression since the Spring or FALL of 2000. That's 15 years of can kicking. Their experts at that. Even I underestimated their can kicking talents as well as their ability to change the rules for themselves retroactively by turning their losing wagers into winning wagers. (Privatizing the Profits, and Socializing the Losses).

 Until that happens - (quickly launch new monetary schemes and debt restructuring) - we need educate many others so that finally governments too wise up and OUTLAW DEBT BASED FIAT entirely when our current monetary systems finally implodes.

 But outlawed or not there is nothing to fear per say. YES: Many will be forced to start over. We all get a hard monetary reboot. Haircuts for all, some much worse than others.

 Bitcoin is seemingly immune, except from other marketplace forces such as over leveraged global marketplace traders that are quickly forced to make MARGIN CALLS. Been their done that. And sometimes like in 2008 finally Brokers get ruthless and don't give a Margin Call, but instead CLOSE OUT THE Traders TRADES to cover losses, and thus completely wipe out the Traders trades; which often results in horrific losses in the case of futures and options trades that would have gone on to win huge. Been there done that too. But at least I knew that was possible beforehand, thank goodness. (*read the fine print of your brokers margin agreements).

 Thus the real need for Bitcoin and other Hard Assets, and not be over leveraged either, and having a few brokerage accounts at various firms, and hopefully the most solvent ones that don't end up robbing clients at the worst possible times. But that is asking a bit much (hint). Even housing debtors finally learned about over leveraged home debt rather recently. So yes, painful is this ongoing situation for almost everyone.

  Yet governments can easily back the trucks up so to speak and steal the gold from the vaults, and even seize various properties through various schemes, or put them on lien in return for loans as governments often do. They can also nationalize pensions and retirement accounts as some have already done. And many more schemes, including seizing Bitcoins maybe, if they can get to them, lol..NOT. As the saying goes "The last actions of governments is often looting their populations of their wealth and savings".


Back on Topic:
-----------------

 Companies such as Circle and Coinbase are not the enemy, and should they ever be so unkind and so unethical, as well as unwise then may the Regulators drop a very heavy hammer on them and much more.


 PEOPLE NEED Bitcoin. And people need both so termed "conforming financial services" and some people believe they need so termed "anonymous financial services". Surely those trying to escape from North Korea, China, or any other extremely repressive and exploitative regime needs a way to transfer their wealth in utter relative safety, given the correct tools to fully escape as in tact as possible. Especially those not in the inner circle of the politics of such regimes.

 
 Moriartybitcoin, Those like yourself may ALSO fret over the possibility of governments wise enough to finally launch their own centralized, or semi-centralized, or even fully Decentralized Cryptocurrencies. Don't believe for a second that they will ever replace or outpace those such as Bitcoin.

 We here at Bitcoin have had a real taste of Monetary FREEDOM. It's spelled "BITCOIN is FREEDOM" a term I also recently coined. Feel free to use it often. It's as simple as that. Bitcoin is Freedom.

 Toss in that in emergencies and at other times governments sometimes need larger amounts of capital than revenue raised and well yes, governments have a real need for either their own currencies (legal tender for all debts) or the ability to instantly acquire them in some fashion. I would rather they not do so termed 'bail-in's' by stealing monies out of every savings and money market account while leaving demand accounts also termed 'checking accounts' let unscathed except for those with much larger balances. But one way or another government must also pay their bills. All said and done, BITCOIN is our FREEDOM. And unlike Gold that seed phrase in Electrum is FREEDOM of worry that anyone can steal one's Digital Gold 2.0 (Bitcoin) unless utilized on a compromised computer.


 A man once said 'We have nothing to fear but fear itself'.
====================================


 As for the competition: The mark of the best business people are the one's that win with class. Not many have real class in the heat of business battles and serious competitive threats. Learn to operate with Class, it will aid you, not harm you. As the saying goes: Never let them see you sweat!

  In business or on a Poker table not many display real class or grace while under direct attack or what not. That includes no bashing others while offering no solid foundations for why they should be excluded from thought (calling them scams, etc).

 I see zero reasons so far to exclude Circle unless they refuse to publicly offer their Business Address (PO Box is fine), and at least a Fax number, plus the name of their Insurer so that insurance coverage can be verified for those that care to do all their due diligence while leaving larger amounts at Circle in trust that it's prudently truly insured against reasonable losses while full well spelling out all exclusions there of.

 But me, I wont utilize any Anonymous Service that cannot be located nor then held accountable for fraud, etc. Personally I have no need for them, I hope I never do, but I suppose anything is possible. But some others surely do have those needs.

Anonymous or not...Verify. Legit or not...Verify. Burn that in people. ALWAYS VERIFY. Never blindly trust or take anyone or anything at Face Value. For too many in these parts have been far too gullible. But wisdom comes with age, unfortunately. Forgive yourself, and look forward, never look back. And at least fully learn from your mistakes.


As for Circle...
-----------------

 I am still listening for why we cannot trust the CEO of Circle. So far no one has given any reasons for why we cannot trust him.
================================================================================


 But toss out these silly 'too centralized nonsense' issues that could allow governments to swoop in. What nonsense.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 And if they dared all hell would break loose onto those governments in so many ways that their likely to be hung in public like another leader recently was. Or at the very least then surely even the main stream fools would finally realize this is full blown Bankster/Corporate Fascism and a full blown Police State, what a day that would be! In other words 'their kinder and gentler' than that. Their willing to let others play too. In fact their in love with Bitcoin too from the looks of things. After all no one likes our true Masters (ie: Banksters, aka: the Owners of Central Banks).

 Even some of the biggest Bankers in Hong Kong this week displayed much interest for Bitcoin. Or didn't one receive that memo either?


 Let's all do our best to compete with class. ex: Just like the classiest gentlemen in poker. Instead of like mere brats. It will only help yourselves and your Bitcoin Businesses, as well as help Bitcoin thrive.


OKAY:
-------

 Sure, 'too centralized' isn't entirely nonsense, but to those like myself it's entirely a non issue that can't possibly be detrimental to Bitcoin. Nothing can. Setbacks? Sure, plenty. These Coinbase's and Circle's though are NOT a setback, but instead a vast improvement very much desired.

 Writing this reply here is yet another setback and cause of losing my focus and burn up time so now I will instead help educate those not privy in this long winded reply, purposely very long winded.

NOW THEN:

 For more paranoid types (maybe the wrong term) and many other needs by certain people? then sure, anonymous, shadowy, unreachable, and untouchable Financial Services have their places for various underground folks. Especially for criminals, drug traffickers and tax cheats. Thanks, but no thanks,

 I don't what my funds possibly going down with those ships when their servers get raided just like Silk Road's servers finally did. And as soon as any of these attract enough business the governments tend to finally go after them, that is just as soon as their is a huge kitty of loot to grab!

 As for the electronic trails, well lets just say things may not end well for many doing business at those types of firms. Maybe quick turnarounds (in and out) would be wise in those types of places instead. Still I find no reason to utilize them myself up to this point in time. But I suppose anything is possible these days...

 I have no dog in this race. I have no connection to any business concerning Bitcoin. I am retired, in my 50's. Just in case anyone wonders.

 Yes, for certain folks there are anonymous, shadowy Financial Services available that are in demand for some types, and always will be in demand from some types. But their not direct competitors with Circle and Coinbase, not hardly. Not even remotely in the scheme of things, but they may compliment themselves by drawing from the same classes of folks that see the need for both of them. These businesses are as different as cats and dogs, actually much more different that that!


On to a topic we agree on:

 It's way past time to end DEBT BASED Fiat, especially ones loaned to governments from Central Banks whom are merely parasitical monsters. Yes they are the enemy, but not Circle, Coinbase or Bitstamp. On that lone count owrrying about Circle, Coinbase and Bitstamp I find you more than a bit far too concerned.

 Case in point: If the governments dared to seize any widespread Bitcoins at these so termed Easy to Grab accounts it would only cause further increases in value of the remaining Bitcoins. In other words almost no matter what Bitcoin wins, but yes there is always risk. Today with bonds, dollars, yen, euro's, pounds and many other currencies there is far more risks, than with Bitcoins. Unless of course one hands their private keys (Bitcoins) over to someone else to manage/save/store/. But if one is clueless that is what one should likely do unless one has very informed friends and can afford a couple of used pc's dedicated for the cause.

 Even attempting 51% attacks or out right purchasing up the vast majority of Bitcoins to disable it is an act of futility. Sure governments like Communist (Dictatorship) Red China can outright BAN/Outlaw it. But then it merely goes underground which is exactly what over 7  Billion folks across the world would still run to (Bitcoin) after they finally learn all about Bitcoin (Gold 2.0).

 Face it, Bitcoin is out of the bottle, and no one can put the Genie (Bitcoin) back into the bottle. Satoshi's Bitcoin is pure genius.



 Yes, major, deep pocket, big guns are finally arriving in earnest in 2014.
==============================================

 2014 & 2015 are the Real YEARS OF BITCOIN
-----------------------------------------------------

 My hat is off to moriartybitcoin and Circle's CEO both.

 May the best services win and I am certain that both these different styles can co-exist, and both thrive very much if only they are prudently and carefully well managed (that's the toughest part, but then the rough is merely a mental thing right? Or is that just for the Winners?)


 After all Bill Gates stated 'business is not that hard'.


 Indeed, for Microsoft, Google, and finally Apple and Bitcoin too Business isn't hard, Care to join, lol...



EDIT: Update:
Moriartybitcoin
at: http://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/news/exclusive-interview-bitcoin-networks-dr-michael-moriarty-stanford-phd-becomes-bitcoins-doc-ock/2014/05/17
Moriartybitcoin
"...Do not trust large Bitcoin companies which are working within the worldwide banking infrastructure, such as Circle, BitStamp, CoinBase etc.  Just like MtGox, they are hugely dangerous to Bitcoin itself, tending to become ponzi schemes or vulnerable to shut-down by government agencies.  These venture-capital-funded darlings should be boycotted.  LocalBitcoins.com is still an excellent place to buy and sell Bitcoins anonymously, as are smaller exchanges like CoinChimp.com.  For storing Bitcoins, I recommend downloading Electrum which is easy to use.  Do not store Bitcoins online at a large exchange.  MtGox users should have learned their lesson by now..."

 Okay, a reasonable statement here. But with insured accounts from credible, solvent insurance companies with policies that don't have flaky exclusions I see no reason why mainstream Bitcoin adopters cannot utilize these types of services for their "checking accounts/spending accounts" for ease of use, and for purchasing their savings bitcoins too, as long as they can of course withdraw those Bitcoins to their very own wallets where those customers retain their own private keys/wallet pass-phrases.

 Electrum too is very exciting an I am glad it's turning out fine so far. Even I am about to utilize it too, finally. (I tend to let others test the unknown first, and not dive straight in, after all I am not a developer). But since punch cards I have utilized computers, and since the days of DOS I have utilized PC's constantly, and since 1991 I have been Online. In fact I was one of the first Online Stock traders on a personal PC at the worlds first brokerage that offered such services. So yea, I used to take a lot of chances, lol. But the last programming I ever did was 34 years ago, no thanks...

 There are young racers and old racers, but there are not any old, bold racers!



 No one can "centralize nor control Bitcoin". Even though some claim it's possible it's NOT Possible. Bitcoin is Free, at large, all over the world.

 But as always we can merely trust others to a point; and that point is MONEY. In others words: Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware! That is how I first signed all my replies and posts here at bitcointalk.org. But now my posts end a bit more eloquently since of course many now likely much better understand why this old fart used to sign my posts the way I did (sadly or not).

 Sure, we cannot save fools from themselves. But we can sure all learn from mistakes.
Be extra wary trusting anyone with your monies, especially Bitcoin. Case closed.



Bitcoin is Freedom.

Why are people so against freedom of choice. Services like this are going to be necessary for widespread adoption, period.

In my opinion the main point is that, regardless of what you think of Circle, you are not forced to use it, let alone use it all the time.

Those who have secret off-shore accounts with lots of money have also a local bank account and use it like everyone else. Note that not having a local bank account would attract attention. They keep a little money in their local bank account, and use it for daily expenses.

I think this is a good metaphor for Circle.

the most hypocritical think here is that the OP (moriarty*) has many scammer tags against his name, he self publicises his scams, but remains hidden. no legit business should hide the real life details of the CEO.

moriarty has scammed many people on many dates and has told each of them that some how they were systematically targeted out of all his customers and that one person was hacked that day,

then other days another individual was systematically targeted.. Pfft thats worse excuse then karpales

*note the pseudonym word play, much like trendon shavers 'pirate' (scallywag stealing peoples riches in the international waters)
moriarty: sherlock holmes character that is a crominal with a network of criminal activity he can access easily
OP moriarty: "bitcoin business network"

Stay away from everything Circle does and everything they stand for. Jeremy Allaire, and the rest of his Old Establishment executive team -- former GS execs, government agents, etc -- will attempt to completely destroy Bitcoin from within... if we let them.

the other thing to note. the OP moriarty hates circle and coinbase, for these reasons
1. asking for customers to deposit funds
2. being regulated
3. customer ID

he made his circle arument in the OP and this coinbase argument

yet one of moriartys own scams is a bitplastic, requiring funds deposits to be held on his site, customers home address details, and if legit regulation

such a scamming hypocrit

With all of their supposed talent and capital, they could have been something great for Bitcoin. Instead, they're going out of their way to encourage/invite excessive regulations that only favor the old money, the old bankers, and all of our other old masters.

Their entire goal is to centralize control of Bitcoin as much as humanly possible.
Seriously, beware the Trojan horse...

Bitcoin is a radical idea.  These "banks" are a logical transitional step for most people.  It is a way to make them comfortable with bitcoin.  I think that they are necessary. 

I think we all mistrust banks or we wouldn't be here.  But again, suggesting that I meet people at coffee shops every time I need bitcoin is ridiculous, or even buying at small shady exchanges that are hard to tell who set them up and where they are.  That is even worse than meeting a stranger at a coffee shop.  At least with a Coinbase or Circle, I can know exactly who set up the company and decide for myself it I want to trust that person.  People want to feel secure, and for most people security means a big and reputable institution (even if that institution is running on an decentralized network).  I wasn't willing to put a lot of bitcoin in Coinbase until they went through the whole Gox thing without even a sniffle.  Does that mean they are safe?  Not 100%, but it gets them closer. 

I use to use Crypsy a lot, but then I read about all the complaints and times it has froze or had problems.  Now I know stay away.  First time Coinbase or Circle or Bitpay freezes, I am out of those too. 

To the OP,

You don't like Adobe Flash, I get it.  But I trust someone who has been involved in major companies over a FUDster who considers himself a Sherlock Holmes villain wannabee who promotes distrust of government, money laundering, and privacy software from the anarchist makers who brought you the 3D printed handgun.  Is all of that going to take Bitcoin mainstream?  I'm all for privacy, but not for enabling fraud.

I would trust Coinbase and Circle any day before I would trust you or your shady companies.

You bash and spread FUD about them because they are competition to your websites.   At first, I thought you were just deluded, but I see now that you have an agenda.

You hide behind anonymity while Allaire will stand in front of crowds of people, trying to improve the ecosytem and ensure that Bitcoin becomes mainstream.  Circle wants to make Bitcoin easier to use, free, and safe.  That helps Bitcoin, and therefore all of us that support it, benefit. 

You don't like it?  Then don't use them.  But don't tell me what companies to use or trust.  I'll take them over your bitlaundering operation.   




 

The number of newbies with strong feelings about Circle is rather remarkable.

Classic bitcointalk...

Same thing over and over again when a major service provider pops up.

100% !  :)

and all "geeks" (we) can use bitcoin-qt or whatever we like and have fun but the masses need companys like circle.

<sigh> There are perfectly reasonable uses of CoinJoin or stealth addresses that have nothing to do with any kind of law breaking, even Benjamin Lawsky has stated exactly this. Just because you're hiding your big bitcoin bills from some people you send money to, doesn't automatically mean you're hiding it from tax collectors too. Get a grip.

Who cares, deal with them if you want.

Why are you trying to make a choice for others.

This is the rational way to look at things. Decentralization isn't a religion. There are plenty of problems out there that we don't have decentralized solutions for, so there's no way around people wanting off-blockchain services at least for the time being.

It's all well and good for people to have opinions about shunning centralized actors, but one of the foundational cypherpunk ethics is show me the code. We don't have the software yet to do everything the most ideologically-pure way that would satisfy zealots, so they're just going to have to deal.

Well said. I don't feel threatened by Circle at all, it will fail on its own if they try to pull the same old fiat shenanigans that got us into this mess (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joITmEr4SjY).

Please. No matter how much money the Corparasites throw at such an initiative, it will never approach Bitcoin in adoption or value.

Pre-mining scams, theft-via-inflation, and central-control hierarchies worked in the industrial fiat-money age, they are no longer valid in the information age.

Welcome to the future. Welcome to the information age. This is the place where mass-deception (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM) comes to die, motherfuckers. Your power is DONE.

Here's your daily dose of TRUTH, brought to you by Beliathon:

http://silverunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/3-value-of-the-dollar.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ouJ1zg5.jpg

http://occupiedtucsoncitizen.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/mediaconsolidation_1.jpg

http://www.truthcontrol.com/files/truthcontrol/images/controlsistfinanciero[1].png

There is a world of difference between a private company doing business in a free market surviving by providing beneficial services to its customers versus the state-sponsored pyramid schemes being depicted in those graphs.

This whole line of argumentation regresses into the absurd ad infinitum.

There will never ever ever ever ever be something that somebody somewhere couldn't oppose as being centralized.

If I decide to open a small business repairing tractors, suddenly I am a centralized point of failure pyramid scheme monopolist because something happens in a centralized place, i.e. my shop. I order parts, hire other mechanics, etc. all without everyone else in the world being involved. God forbid, I'm a criminal destined to collapse at any moment and steal everybody's broken tractor assets!

All capitalist enterprises are pyramid schemes, and all corporations are state-sponsored. In my country (USA), the business elite and the political elite are the SAME PEOPLE.

Over the course of the last forty years, the "american dream" has hardened into a brutal caste system with a massive, for-profit prison population. Things will get worse before they get better.

We have set a course for corporate neo-fascism. This is why we say "profit is a FILTHY word (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YR4CseY9pk)". The fact is, capitalism is hitting the fan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZU3wfjtIJY).

The concept of the "free market" is a myth, and I aim to expose it. It was never free - there is and was always the use of coercion, and violence if that failed.  Bitcoin is political whether you like it or not.

There are other ways (http://vimeo.com/4041228), you know. Have a little imagination.

This is sophomoric beyond my wildest dreams.

Here's the basic pattern to this behavior --

1) Somebody makes an observation or argument;
2) Quick! Immediately loosely link whatever was said to a canned bush league piece of polemic vomit that you were looking to say all along no matter what was said!
3) Make sure to say presumptuous things about the mental faculties of the person you're responding to.

Very classy son, keep it up!

I will! You carry on being a capitalism apologist (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWC_zDdF74s), until things get so bad (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Jxs7lR8ZI) you're too ashamed to speak in its defense.

I'll carry on changing the world by spreading truth, and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

http://d2tq98mqfjyz2l.cloudfront.net/image_cache/1252455467559038.jpeg

Don't interfere with my forum business again, this is important work I'm doing here. Transcending capitalism and nation-state post-feudal warfare is the key to the survival of our species.

P.S.
I'm afraid even "sophomoric' is above my lowly station, I'm a deadbeat dropout debtor (http://strikedebt.org/). Unemployed with no direction, no goals, no money, no future. I am the lowest of the low.

So, if I run a lemonade stand, it's a pyramid scheme?

Are the corporations I personally registered "state-sponsered" ?

So has this site even been launched yet?  It looks like they're still planning on sending out invites but nothing is up and running so far or maybe only to a limited amount of beta users?  I'll wait until it's actually up and running to judge.

and you call yourself a prophet lol :D

Step 1. END The FED (and all other Central Banks as we know them).

Step 2. All countries have their own Debt Free self issued Currencies. Possibly various forms of Cryptocurrencies.

Step 3. All countries control their own monetary and fiscal policies themselves.

Step 4. All countries are held in check by Decentralized Cryptocurrencies where people can flee to, or remain, in case countries don't act and behave in a prudent fashion concerning monetary and fiscal policies.

Step 5. A gradual phase in of Decentralization of Powers and Controls over a long period of time, or during revolutions.



 Above all else: END THE FED. And all other Central Banks, and Never again have DEBT BASED FIAT.

 Just those two first steps the world free. Everyone in the world must learn and know the scores of reasons why.
(Everyone is a debt slave from cradle to grave with Debt Based Fiat Currencies, ie: Dollars, Yen, Pounds, Euros, etc. No More, Never Again).


 The rest will all fall into place if even the first two steps above is done. Give people a real taste of Freedom and they will figure out the rest themselves.


 But first...END THE FED. And Claw Back all the Loot stolen by Banksters and Wall Street.


Never again any more Bailouts. Never any Bail-In's. Never Reward Failure. That is NOT Capitalism.
That's Bankster Fascism. Neo-Bankster/Corporate Fascism.

 Never again Socialize Losses and Privatize Profits in these wickedly evil schemes.

 NO ONE is Too Big Too Fail. We always put those firms into receivership, then clean up their messes, and liquidate their assets or sell off those firms after their balance sheets are cleaned up. But management is supposed to go to prison in cases of Fraud and other crimes. Until 2008 that is. When Bankster Fascism arrived in it's Full Blown Form.


 Real Capitalism NEVER, EVER Rewards Failure. That's Un-American. That's Un-European. That's Insane to reward failure.


 Bitcoin/Decentralized Cryptocurrencies aids to neuter our Masters powers and controls. Everyone that learns the truth agrees except of course the Owners of The Central Banks. Sadistically even that has morphed into many a very large Mutual Fund, ETF, Bank Stocks directly, and of course even Pension Funds and Insurance companies, all very much unwitting co-conspirators. It's not merely Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan Chase along with the other Largest Banks, not by a long shot. This is a sorted and extremely messy affair 100 years later (today).
All of these own a chunk of the Fed. It will take lots of efforts to unwind this unless it completely implodes on it's under it's own insanity, which it quite possibly could if they ever lose complete control or do what they did before because of the insanity of allowing Commercial Banks to be turned into Investment/Gambling Fools. Commercial Bankers are always the worst investors. Until of course they fix the markets in their favor: ie: 2009 to the Present.

 This is real, it's going down in real time, and their all worse than insolvent all over again. Even 40+ Trillion in Bailouts, Backstops and Guarantees didn't do anything but make the macro situations many times worse than in 2008.
Sure the Fed tapered a tad bit, Only because the USA Inc didn't need a full Trillion annually loaned to in the last several months. The FED and all the other Central Banks are and have been blowing the Bubble of Last Resort: ie QE to Infinity. Taper my ass...Governments always inflate their way into ruin, and their co-partners of Crime the Central Bank always goes along for the ride. Of course that's why the FED has been busy printing up digital monies for free and purchasing up all the Bonds tied to Real Assets (Mortgages), their robbing us and our government blind!


 At least almost everyone here knows this, maybe not all these details and much more, but almost all of us are on the same page and understand. Sadly it's much worse than many even here know...

 Now let the newbies (noobs) learn more than a bit too, and why we're here! A few cry to stop this, claiming this or that, 'we shouldn't state such things'. 'Be nice to newbies'. Well, yes, be extra nice and helpful to newbies (noobs). But educate. Or we all do this the Hard Way.

 Even our own Governments and their employees hate our real Masters - The Banksters. They already own about 40% of the Global Assets. It's way past time to claw back those ill gotten gains. Even many Bank and Wall Street employees hate our real Masters. The 0.01%. Enough. Let's Claw it All Back, and toss these many of the worst parasites where they belong. (Next to Maddoff). Yes, maybe many others should be given lenency, all things what they were the last 100 years. But I am being far too kind saying it. It's not how I personally feel. But in reality it's not many of them that are to directly fault. We were all born into this economic slavery.

 But when they turn Their Losers into Winners by Retroactively Changing the Laws after the fact, and By Secret, hush hush 15.3 Trillion (so far known) FED Bailouts while claiming all they needed was a 800 Billion TARP Bill Bailout it all reeks of Bankster Fascism and much more.

 Capitalism, REAL Capitalism NEVER Rewards Failure.

 Today every government employee, every cop, retired or not, and every other public employee, right along side every private sector retiree and worker is at FULL RISK.

 This outline here Saves us all. It's either ALL OF US, or 0.01% of them.


 MAN UP. Circle this FUD Thread more. I dare you. I welcome Circle. ex Goldman or Not. Let's Get Real. Let's do this together. Let's save our futures and our children's and grand children's futures. And their children's futures.

 Even Congress has got to be all for this. Same with past and present White Houses. Everyone hates being economic slaves by way of Debt Based Fiat Schemes laid down some 100 years ago. The FED is almost out of rope. Soon it ends. Let's rebuild it the Best Way We Know How.

 END THE FED. (my goal)... END THE FED. And End Debt Based Dollars, Forever. That's all I require. All any of us need to be Set FREE.

http://dollarcollapse.com/




 Bitcoin is Real Freedom

Slingshot, you're mostly 99% correct.  I just don't quite understand why you say you 'welcome Circle'.  That's not helping to end the Fed at all. Circle operates within the traditional banking system and its goal is to bring Bitcoin more fully into compliance with government regulation .. so this hardly helps us end the Fed.

It is an interesting take to challenge Bitcoin, but it won't go anywhere. It's terrible that they would try to centralize it because that runs counter to the nature of what Bitcoin truly is. Tame a lion in a cage and make it do tricks, it won't be long before the lion snaps and attacks the lion trainer.

I think some of yall have gone straight off the deep end. Circle isn't centralizing bitcoin because you can't centralize it. All they're doing is providing a service, same as the exchanges you already do business with that holds your bitcoins that you gave your info to to even GET bitcoin...and they are offering banking like services at nominal to free cost.They are not trying to centralize bitcoin. They are a BRIDGE from fiat TO btc and what you do with it from there is your business. They don't even have any fucking power to "centralize" bitcoin.

They are making it EASY for people with the intellectual fortitude of the Sarah Palins and Paris Hiltons or Joe Blow to start obtaining and using bitcoin for every day purchases...doing their part to help push mainstream adoption WHICH IS WHAT WE ALL WANT, remember?

Because they deal in USD or other currencies they are still going to be regulated AS A BUSINESS by the government. If THEY didn't want to be regulated, THEY wouldn't start up a business such as this. They're working with government to make sure Mt Gox doesn't happen again, to offset and negate some of the bad press and make Suzie Homemaker and Joe Sixpack hop on board and go bitcoin the way they got email and cell phones.

Relax.

And if you are that friggin paranoid, DON'T USE THEM. Wow...you guys.  ::) :o

I'll be more impressed when someone can make it easy for people with serious brain damage to use. For example, brain damaged stroke victims like Harry Reid. Or those who have brain damage as the result of an aneurysm, like Joe Biden.

Decent Discussion regarding the Circle model:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkeFfNLHuBI

I watched this one last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMuAZkoVMog

and the option that Circle has to give you instant access to your funds (and use a debit card) without any 3 or 4 day delay, or a week if you hit the weekend is a HUGE advantage over Coinbase and I predict that because of it, Coinbase is apt to lose a lot of business unless the "evolve" to instant access and accept debit cards.

I'm giving Circle full benefit of the doubt at this point in time because they offer ideal solutions at ideal cost (free) and until they do something that is actually negative and harmful they don't deserve to be demonized before they've even launched.

Again, you've already handed over your KYC info to coinbase AND bitstamp AND any other exchange you use. It appears to me that Circle looks to have more superior security protocols in place than any of these so far.

everyone should really help spread the word about this

So it looks like Moriarty and a bunch of newbies are the only ones worried about this exchange opening.

I would not be surprised if Moriarty is behind a competing website.

I have noticed there is alot of misunderstanding in the definition of the word capitalism when Anarcho-Caps speak with Anarcho-Communists. Anarcho-Communists typically rail against chrony-capatalism,  kleptocracy, and Fascism. This is what Anarcho-caps are against as well. We don't support corporations as they exist in the marketplace today because of their unfair legal protections granted by the state.

What I don't understand is how you can be a Bitcoin supporter and against pure Capitalism as commonly defined?

"Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industry, and the means of production are controlled by private owners with the goal of making profits in a market economy."

Bitcoins are assets that are privately owned and traded freely in a market economy. The Bitcoin framework is designed where systems, states, and communities cannot easily interfere with the free distribution of these assets as wages or property. There are no restrictions of individuals accumulating these assets either as profit in the Bitcoin architecture.

If you are against wages and private ownership of property aren't you advocating for a much different cryto-currency that restricts the private ownership and control of these assets? Possibly, one that equally distributes x-tokens equally and restricts unequal accumulation of those crypto-tokens?

You aren't the only one!

I won't say for certain but I'm reasonably certain that Circle isn't doing background or credit checks. I think they're most logically doing what any other service does and checking to make sure you actually have the funds you're trying to transfer, similar to the way PayPal works, or any other POS transaction with a debit/credit card.

The credit check would be an enormous brick wall for the vast majority of debt ridden public population who would instantly and permanently recoil at the very idea Circle is gonna pull a credit check. And moreso for background checks or all that.

It read to me that the check was to verify you actually have the funds - else what would happen easily is someone would transfer huge amounts, move it to a wallet off Circle, the card would bounce and it'd be mass chaos.

Oh baloney.

Just because YOU don't know how they're financing it is in no measure whatsoever an indicator THEY don't know how they're financing it. Clearly they have a model that convinced venture capitalists to invest millions of fiat in a totally free product for the masses.

You sound like your head is firmly up your ass - which is why you are unable to connect the dots or understand what's shaping up here.

No offense. But hey, if we're taking the time to read your opinions then we're perfectly free to convey our own...

I suspect the money isn't in individual banking anyway for them. THey set themselves up as some sort of private SWIFT network and the real money is dealing with corporations and moving money in mass around the world. Signing up small investors is just something to grease the wheels. THey have big goals, mom and pop on bitcoin is just peanuts.

Just as with everything in the free market, the consumers will either choose to use this or not if its shoddy.
Its on its own organization.  No one is forced to join and do business with them. 

Without the state, you don't have contracts, and, until about 2009-2010, I assumed no money for the price system to work either.


First, collective ownership of the means of production does not imply a total restriction on private property.

Second, such a "communist" crypto-currency would be essentially impossible to set up in a trust-free manner. Information about the real world requires trusted sources of information. This is why I am not optimistic automated decentralized exchanges will become a reality.

Bitcoin essentially ends usury (by being deflationary in nature). If any die-hard anarcho-communists are worried about wealth accumulation, Freicoin Deserves a look (http://freico.in/)

I don't understand how the state is in any way required for contracts between two or more individuals. Bitcoin itself shows that you can have a stateless contract system that even goes so far as removing counter-party risk and regulate itself in a trust-less manner.



Correct, there are many degrees of different political philosophies all will different definitions of what is allowed as private property ownership. Some collectives allow for some personal items under a certain value to be owned.



Agreed.

What was being discussed by Beliathon I believe is a form of anarcho-socialism/communism called parecon which uses participatory decision making to make economic decisions instead of the the free market and profits as signals to base economic decisions as bitcoin does. Participatory economics forces decentralized common ownership of means of production with voting and consensus making. Bitcoin does allow for some consensus voting with the direction of the code, but it also has some innate capitalist tendencies where business owners who invest labor and capital can accumulate a greater miner share and / or a larger bitcoin savings unlike what parecon proposes.

Parecon does speak about hypothetical electronic credits but these are attached to individual real identities and cannot be transferred or stolen and any other form of money would be discouraged which is quite a different arrangement than how Bitcoin is designed.

Parecon is dependent upon monitoring and comparing consumption in detail where there is little individual privacy unlike the pseudo-anonymity of bitcoin where individuals are free to participate outside the careful scrutiny of others.

The economic calculation problem is one of parecon's greatest weaknesses. Bitcoin communicates economic needs directly and immediately from many data points, while parecon depends upon a certain degree of policy planning to determine plans and prices. While this is better than central planning, there are serious concerns at the accuracy and fluidity of localized planning as opposed to having a capitalist market setting prices to inform business's inherent efficiencies or a lack thereof.

Lastly, there are serious concerns about coercion being used against dissenting individuals in many consensus building frameworks where the will of the majority is imposed upon the liberty of the minority. With bitcoin one can fork the blockchain and participate or not at any moment unlike with a required consensus planning meeting.

These differences are what confuse me as to how does one propagandize parecon and bitcoin in the same breath?
How does one square this circle?

Circle is a way that will get the masses to start using bitcoin.

Circle does centralize bitcoin but it does not create a central authority.

If circle is successful then others will create competing services that are similar and will further innovate

What is wrong with Circle to my knowledge they are just a payment processor for smartphones
Insert converter and send
Simply put they are a service not anything more or less and help with merchant adoption

DO NOT DO THIS

Let me give you a lay down of what will happen,

First remember the big bankers, like barclays, JP Morgan Finance, and many many others hate this currency, do you know why, because in order for them to play they must pay, pure and simple, and these guys feel anything worth their investment should be free to join, and expensive for you for them to destroy. they have loads of cash and gold to manipulate any and every other market that is "CONTROLLED", "CENTRALIZED" and "REGULATED" you know who controls and regulates the common currencies, thats right places like Barclays, JP Morgan,  Deutsche Bank, HSBC, Bank of Nova Scotia and a few others. These guys manipulate absolutely anything that is "federally regulated" because they are the federal government. Your presidents, your congressman, those are just pawns on the chessboard of the big banks competiting with each other.

the second you centralize and allow federal regulations on this currency is the same dayb you allow places like JP MOrgan, and barclays bank to step in the door and freely regulate it the way they regulate everything else in the real world.

I say watch the big bankers, watch real gold and silver, and watch how things in those industries are defying all sense of logic, the watch as barclays and JP Morgans finances go thru the roofs aas they collude, and manipulate the markets, and banks like JP MOrgan go 3 yearswithout 1 lost trade in gold, That is impossible, but they do it, how because they know how they will move the market and bid on trades theyb know will bring them in fountains of cash on a daily basis. 4.3 trillion dollars are made daily on the forex market, and 4.29999999999 of those dollars goes to the already rich bankers of barclays and JP Morgan.

Let them destroy their own currency and come begging at the doortep of us to let them in, let them fail and destroy everything they have and be broke, dont let them in willingly to destroy us to. they do enough damage in world currencies, let them sleep in the bed they made for themselves, and beg us to bail them out.

I don't have a problem with it.  A lot of people (most actually) aren't technically adept enough to keep their own bitcoins safe.  So this might not be a bad alternative for them.

Some people do not like the fact that Circle would act like a "bank" in that users would send coins to their account and then circle would encourage users to send money to other circle users in an off blochchain fashion.

As of now Circle does not plan on having any fees and to my knowledge do not plan on lending your coins that you deposit (operating on a fractional reserve)

Businesses in this niche are inevitable -- I think that average joe type people will want trustworthy entities to hold their bitcoins and keep them safe. Is it ideal? No, and maybe with time we can move beyond that. But I think Circle and the like will bridge the gap to some extent.

How is this different than coinbase.com?

I use coinbase to buy and sell coins with no issues. I can transfer my BTC to my offline wallet if I don't trust them.

I just don't see how Circle centralizes any coin when they too are dependent on the BTC network that they don't control.  ???

Who is a 'trustworthy entity' ? CIRCLE?

Right ... just like MtGox was trustworthy up until Karpeles ran off with everyone's coin.

You want a TRUSTWORTHY ENTITY?  Try an exchange or wallet service using TRUSTLESS IMPLEMENTATION such as multisig.

In fact, my whole network is moving to trustless wallets in the very near future .. I will not have access to anyone's private keys and therefore even the site owner would not be able to steal user funds.  If my grandmother was dying of cancer I couldn't steal your coins ..

Every exchange and wallet service should be moving RAPIDLY to implement trustless architecture.  No one should EVER trust their coins to a service like Circle, which could simply disappear.  

Here are some possible scenarios where you could lose ALL YOUR COINS with Circle:

A. The US government decides it doesn't like Bitcoin and bans it
B. Circle CEO Jeremy Allaire decides he wants that SuperYacht and runs off with the BTC (Not so far-fetched.  Remember Chris Mallick of ePassporte? He stole millions of dollars, including $50,000 of MY MONEY, to fund his silly porn movie)
C. A Circle ROGUE EMPLOYEE steals the BTC
D. A hacker steals the BTC
E. Circle decides to cancel your account because of onerous verification requirements

Who knows what other horror scenario could result in the loss of millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin through Circle.

Circle might be good for Bitcoin temporarily as it brings the clueless masses into the game. Fine and dandy. But what happens when it turns into a massive ponzi scam like MtGox? Do we really need another Bitcoin exchange disaster??

I see thanks for clarifying that in that case as long as they do not run a fractional reserve with the Bitcoins and have the capital and fiat to cover the ones they hold in their possession there should be no problem.

That said I guess a reserve if they somehow do get hacked might be needed, it has a lot of capital as a company so that shouldn't be a problem
The problems would occur if they declare bankruptcy with their fiat end.

For me circle makes it possible for a few people who don't get Bitcoin to use it as well and they take a niche market and help to push it further into mainstream.

Yes circle is something that would likely be very good for the less technically inclined.

One major concern that I have is the fact that it would a possible central point of failure where something could either go wrong or the site could get hacked

This fella's post makes a great deal of sense to me although I do also agree with earlier posts regarding most users not being sophisticated enough to keep their own bitcoins safe (not even sure mine are).  I use coinbase on occassion and it works great but I would be lying if I said I had 100% confidence in them holding my coins.  I basically use them to purchase or sell, and now that my friend has instructed me on how to run a full-node I immediately withdraw my coins as soon as they hit my coinbase account.

Not sure whether or not this circle thing will end up taking off but it seems to be gaining traction.

I spoke out by requesting and invite.  Nothing back yet.

I'll totally leverage these guys services just as I do with Coinbase (which is ceasing to be as useful to me as it once was due apparently to Wells Fargo malfeasance) but as with any other organization (in Bicoinland OR in mainstream land) I'll not entrust to them anything I cannot afford to lose.

If Circle damages Bitcoin in any tangible way it is more a deficiency in Bitcoin(istan) than an issue with Circle.  And one which would spell eventual failure at some level anyway.

There isn't much substance to speak of in this post.

Circle is a reputable company with reputable backers.

True that you don't control your coins in they are held by a third party like Circle or Coinbase... but there are a large number of people who prefer that due to simplicity.   

Circle will likely increase adoption and help Bitcoin a great deal.

I've been to the HQ, I know the CEO, I completely trust them with my Bitcoin or fiat.

People do not like the fact that circle could lead to somewhat centralization of bitcoin