Bitcoin Forum

St. Louis Fed Economist David Andolfatto briefly explains some of the benefits and drawbacks to virtual currency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkm70CER8R0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYblxnGKb0

Basically he says USD is better because with USD you're losing your purchasing power at a predictable rate. Lol.


What a fucking joke. What a fucking moron.

Hahaha, he's a salesman trying to sell garbage. He's probably very good at it too!

small potato!?
BTC is the biggest potato plant ever created, and our "huge potatoes" will grow up to crush the Fed.  :)
I don't want to lose wealth at a predictable rate, no thanks.

He also explains the federal reserve is not to be blamed for printing money in excess, a local bank in your street is responsible  for this.

He is lying because the big beneficiaries of the Fed are foreign banks. (http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2014/5/9/when-12-trillion-in-foreign-bank-funds-in-the-us-dissipate.html)

"It’s the risk-free banking version of the hot money. And the $2.6 trillion in excess reserves that economists are expecting to flow into the US economy sooner or later to really stir things up? Half of it is that hot money."

From where that 2.6$ trillion godzilla money will flow into US?

From the excess reserves on deposit at the Fed (http://www.testosteronepit.com/home/2014/5/9/when-12-trillion-in-foreign-bank-funds-in-the-us-dissipate.html).

bitcoin is small fry. but so is gold. hense why they couldnt continue to back the dollar with gold...

but lets put some context to how small bitcoin is at the moment, by using golds statistics

1 ounce of gold=$1292
1 tonne of gold= $45,574,008(35274 ounces)
171,000 tonnes of gold in the world = $7,793,155,368,000

gold has a $7.79 trillion cap and that is not good enough for the Fed.. bitcoin is $6bill = under 0.1% of gold's cap

Have you ever been hit with a potato gun? 

BS! Bitcoins is safe ,it's been around for years now and nothing will change my  mind about it and even if it went down i'll go down with it

He fails to explain that Bitcoin is a "bottom-up" solution and not a "top-down" solution.  As bitcoin adoption expands the volatility in purchasing power (not necessarily price) will dampen.  Purchasing power volatility is a small price to pay for being an early adopter of sound, honest money.

He also avoids the issue of how the new money is distributed when the money supply is expanded.  Distributing the new money to the existing holders of the currency in proportion to their current holdings would be the fair and honest thing to do.  This would allow for purchasing power stability that he claims is so important.  Instead, large amounts of the new money are given to the bankers or handed over to the politicians and their cronies.  These lowlifes are now able to buy the products and services that the productive members of society should be able to buy at lower prices.

Just a pathetic salesman trying to defend his racket.

Well, I disagree with most of you. This guy seems very knowledgeable about Bitcoin compared to most economists, and he seems pro-Bitcoin, even with what he considers to be its shortcomings.

He said:

• Bitcoin is a stroke of genius.
• It is small potatoes ... but the exciting thing is its potential for growth.
• Mt. Gox's failure is not a failure of Bitcoin.
• Bitcoin will force traditional institutions to adapt or die.

He brings up some good points:

1. Transactions are slow because of the requirement for decentralized consensus.
2. Fixed supply restricts management of the economy. (which to me may be one of its best features).
3. The value is volatile.

I don't think any of these issues are critical or insurmountable but they remain issues, and there is no reason not to bring them up.


If you want to see the entire presentation, go here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNcsPXirK8o&list=PLKcwEC4jDwiPtDy8pGoO8M1hYpBsBeT9w

But that IS the primary benefit of USD.  Stability is the single most desirable attribute for a currency to have.

We need Bitcoin's price to get to $371102.64/BTC to beat Au current marketcap - easy!  ;)

what a problem ... btc win : 21,000,000.000m000µ  ;D
more number than gold.

http://static-mb.minutebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/win.gif

If BTC had a user base that was the same size as the USD's then the purchasing power would be a lot more stable.  Stability will come with time as adoption grows.  That doesn't happen overnight.  It will take time.  Those who want stable (but steadily rising) purchasing power will just have to be patient.

Sounds familiar.

Consider the following: With each passing day, the supply of fiat increases, while the supply of Bitcoin decreases. Now class, who can tell me how scarcity affects the value of a freely-traded commodity?

This game only has one possible outcome. You will join us now (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZEJ4OJTgg8), or you will find yourself working for us - for Bitcoin - one day soon.

http://silverunderground.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/3-value-of-the-dollar.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/I8AIyEX.png

http://static1.businessinsider.com/image/52c173566bb3f7bb746167bb-960/krugs.png

Resistance is futile.

Pretty expected as far as what he says. Its not like the fed is going to come out and endorse BTC and point out the ways it is better than USD

Yep. Nation-state fiat banking is a religion, economics is the pseudo-science which supports it. This would be roughly tantamount to McCarthy endorsing Communists in the fifties.

Bible:

Matthew 13:31,32
He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”

Matthew 17:20
He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”

Luke 13:19
It is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his garden. It grew and became a tree, and the birds perched in its branches.”

Luke 17:6
He replied, “If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it will obey you.

:)

Thing is, they can't adapt. They will die, and they should die, at least good part of them...

bitcoin is a small potato.

and look at th success of the potato.

french fries
potato chips (crisps to us brits)
mashed potato
potato fritters
hash browns
waffles

the potato is more a part of everyones daily life then anything.

more people eat and buy potato's world wide then gold or the US dollar

We are all potatoes here
One potato, two
But you, you are the sweetest.

What's a FED? o yea, the Queen of Bailout Queens, and QE to Infinity Clowns. Yea, right...

 Experts? At the FED? Maybe so, at Rewarding Failure after Failure and completely failing their "Official" Objectives for the entire 100 last years running.

Bailout Queens are not required to apply here. 
There wont be any Bailouts for Losers in Bitcoin.
So those at the FED would not care for this, at all.
Case Closed. O, and soon...Checkmate=FED Gone!


The FED is the Past and Present.

Step #1 END THE FED.




Bitcoin is a Big Part of The Future.

so far i have loved the two experts of FIAT's analogies of bitcoin

bitcoin is rat poison
i agree bitcoin is the poison that will kill the rat race of fiat

bitcoin is small potato
i agree average joe buys more potatos then gold. meaning potato's and bitcoin is more relvant and preferred by people than gold is

I'm a yam person, myself.

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080906215753/color/images/d/d7/Yam-586.jpg


Can't wait until these "yams" grow up, so we can all have some sweet potatoe pie.   :D

They have had 200+ years to make the dollar work. Bit coin has existed less than 5 years and is all ready superior in most ways and catching up in the others. I consider the dollar to be small potatoes. 

Watched the video. This guy is an arrogant ass.

I can see the position, because it is in the interests of shareholders and in protecting his and their interests. They are wrong however, and Bitcoin will reign over fiat. It is only a matter of time.

Weird the fed hates bitcoin... Maybe because they can't continually print and devalue it like the dollar

I agree with you.  But never the less it doesn't change the fact that as of RIGHT NOW, USD is much more stable, and that is a very desirable attribute for a currency to have (and of course, a very small, but completely stable, steady decline in value of the currency is extremely beneficial to them.  And in theory anyways, all of us).   Anyways, I wasn't trying to start an argument but simply point out that what he said about the value\usefulness of USD is 100 percent right.  He is not at all a "fucking moron".  Listen, we all here want this thing to succeed.  That doesn't however mean that anyone that says anything even remotely disparaging about BTC is a "fucking moron". 

it amazes me how people who are considered at the top of their profession.. can be so resistant to new changing ideas. it's like they grasp onto their old ideas for death. if we look throughout history, it's the new thinkers who create the next step in human evolution.. so why are these "conventional wisdom" guys so hellbent on sticking to their philosophy? it's like they don't know that everything in the world is changing constantly.

i don't really know it bitcoin will be revolutionary, but at this point i'd say you definitely can't count it out.

Winner.

I think that argument/bullet point is the one I'm going to officially adopt as of now when talking to people about the benefits of bitcoin.

These people are all old school money from the old school brotherhood. Their entire lives are deeply entrenched in fiat...it's all they know. They've also set themselves so high in their untouchable ivory towers that they genuinely believe they own the world. So anything new and helpful for anyone else but themselves, they'll dismiss.

I think the way to get bitcoin as the official US currency is to head up a massive national bitcoin marketing campaign showing politicians how easy it is to take bribes and secure their wealth without the IRS knowing shit about it or taxing it...and even to hire hit men to off their competition! AND it will pretty much end bank robberies (the old fashioned kind anyway).

They'll turn off the printing presses in 24hrs and make it a mandatory currency  ;D

honestly, i know our currency system is fucked up and bound to failure.. but i'm not even aiming for us to replace fiat with bitcoin. it's likely not going to happen, as fiat paper has an important psychological factor in it that bitcoin can't beat. i'd just like to see bitcoin improve on the remittance and hyperinflationary issues of the world.

if bitcoin took over currency as the main means of trade, it would mean that everybody would know how to use it.. even old people who are luddites.

just let them drown in their ignorance  ;)

Ok, I watched the first video..... looks like those cowards are holding comments for review... so much for honest feedback.

Some issues with "Bitcoin and Beyond, David Andolfatto, St. Louis Fed"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kkm70CER8R0

The graph comparing fiat starts at 1990 when they begin to juke the way inflation is calculated. - the core CPI excluding Food and energy, PCE excluding food and energy, or the PPI excluding food and energy all leave out food in fuel. Food has averaged a 3-4% increase in inflation yearly, Regular Gasoline around 5% average inflation , Heating fuel 10-11% rise per year in inflation. I would think these are somewhat important commodities that humans need to live don't you?

They focus on the time periods where the dollar looks most favorable compared to both the gold and bitcoin charts.
Why won't they show that the dollar lost 98.9% against Bitcoin in the last 2 years and 99.9997% to bitcoin in the last 5?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYblxnGKb0
Second Video Inaccuracies :

1)  Slow Processing of 10 min - This is false, payments are received in half a second and confirmed in 7-60 min. As compared to ACH 3-5 days, and credit cards 60 day confirmations (If there can be a chargeback the original "confirmation" really wasn't confirmed now was it?)

2) Do you trust Satoshi N. isn't out there with a switch where he can double the amount bitcoins? This is impossible and shows a fundamental misunderstanding of open source software. This can only be true if you call the community "satoshi" metaphorically.

3) Its intrinsic value is 0 - Bitcoin is intrinsically useful because it holds great value for humankind.

4) He suggests that Bitcoin can be easily replicated discounting the first mover advantage as not being important. Not only is he wrong concerning the network effect he s also not considering the billions of dollars poured into hardware like Asics, Point of sale devices , hardware wallets , ect... This stuff can't be so easily changed. I.E.... we were supposed to be switched over to IPv6 by 2012 with many years of preparation(32 years preparation) for this switchover; as of last month we have are seeing around 3% accessing sites with IPv6 despite billions of dollars invested.

5) Blaming fed for bank stealing across the street ignores the fact that both are actively stealing.

One potato two potato three potato, four, five potato six potato seven potato more.

Yes the St. Louis Fed has been aggressively covering Bitcoin on Youtube..

http://bitcoinmagazine.com/13165/federal-reserves-bitcoin-policy-begins-take-shape/

and remember as the old saying goes...never put shoe polish on a baked potato(e)

It might be a small potatoe currently, but I bet there's going to be a time when he regrets that comparison.

Please describe the intrinsic value of Bitcoin.

Some might say, that the bible hold great value for humankind others might disagree

I hope one day the Fed becomes a small potato and this guy a small fry  :D

Money has great inherent value because it communicates ideas and assets more efficiently than a barter system which is an inherently very useful tool for mankind. Goldbugs will often praise gold as having "inherent value" because you can melt it down and create gold fillings and use it in semiconductors if needed but what they fail to clarify is that this value represents only a couple hundred for its utility and most of it is perceived value because its history and rarity.

bitcoin just like a dollar bill has no intrinsic value in a vacuum. What gives USD value is the trust of billions of people, acceptance of millions of merchants, store of value, its scarcity, its divisibility, security, frictionless utility, stability, and its fungibility.

What gives Bitcoin value is many of the same principles of fiat-
1) Fungibility - Bitcoin is equal to Fiat, better than gold
2) Divisibility - Much better than fiat and gold
3) Scarcity - Much better than Fiat and gold (One could find a new gold mine here or on an asteroid)
4) Trust of userbase - Fiat and Gold are much better than Bitcoin here
5) frictionless utility - Bitcoin is better than Fiat , and much better than gold
6) Security - Bitcoin is better than Fiat for technical people, worse for luddites (for now) and better than gold
7) Merchant acceptance - Bitcoin is far better than gold , and worse than USD fiat worldwide, but better than many other smaller fiat currencies worldwide at the moment.
08) stability - gold is slightly better than bitcoin , USD/Euro Fiat is much more stable than bitcoin
09) Store of value - Too early to tell, but Bitcoin thus far has been a better much better investment than  gold and the USD. I.E... USD has lost 99.9997% n value against Bitcoin in the last 5 years and 98.9% in te last 2 years.

So, the intrinsic value of USD can not be 0, since the intrinsic value of BTC is >0 and the intrinsic value of BTC in different fields is a Multiplier of the USD-value. 0*10 is still Zero.

Certainly, The intrinsic value of USD is what the market indicates due to the utility and value it provides as an ecosystem. The value of anything is 0 outside of such ecosystem and environment.  What remains to be seen is if Bitcoin has a greater value than USD for the greater population. So far Bitcoin has a great track record but has plenty of areas for improvement. 

just went to KFC and had some chicken and potato French fries...so nice...wish KFC accepted bitcoins...

Have you guys seen this one yet? It's a great one to add to your bitvids collection to share. It's one of the clearest, most concise, neutral explanations without the inevitable information overload that comes with a lot of explanations.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isXPnNPlwE0

I've been reading these forums for about a month now and copying links, snippets, great posts, one liners - all to make up my own little bitcoin info guide which will help me be able to explain things better, faster, more concise than the long winded thing that makes their eyes explode...but one thing I can say about this forum and the comments is that the overall sentiment seems to be that we all bend over backwards to educate and inform the masses and who cares what the FED thinks, fuck those guys, let 'em fall.  ;D

There are a few who think it's a good idea to also educate the lawmakers and while I don't disagree with that, since it'll make mass adoption go smoothly, I can't help find myself in the other category with most people who'd just as soon watch every corrupt politician and greedy banker and ever FED member go from wealthy elite to impoverished and on the street overnight...getting what they deserve.

If you missed the thread about getting local merchants on board, definitely check it out

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=616864.0

This is great and they're giving out the mag for free since clearly they've made their money/profits on the advertising within. I love this and am officially on board championing and suggesting it to everyone - get a few copies and take them around to local merchants. The more they know, the faster they get on board too.

...back to regularly scheduled thread topic

eventually the us citizens will be holding a worthless currency due to all the federal reserves printing .

The value of the US dollar is the value of the US economy as that is what it is "backed" by.

Regarding volatility I like what Andreas says—Bitcoin's marketcap is currently around 5.5bil. This is at best a small nation.

Think of it like a small kiddie pool—there just isn't much liquidity.
Whenever a large player makes a move it sloshes noticeably across the pool. As the marketcap/size grows so will the liquidity pool which will cause the volatility to go down.

"Targeting 2% depreciation in the purchasing power of our currency"

He couldn't even say this without laughing.  What a joke!!

*Also, what's the deal with the "coke sniffles" that kick in around 1:35 of the second video?! :p