Bitcoin Forum

They could make cash from the fluctuations in Bitcoin's price, as opposed to transaction fees. This would force them to create an exchange and act as a wallet. This would not only help PayPal business wise, but it would help the people who are interested in Bitcoin get involved that aren't too sure about about digital currencies. If they don't do it, they'll be out of business from someone that will.

Exchange/Wallet combination idea comes from http://www.panture.com/why-paypal-should-integrate-a-wallet-service-for-bitcoin/

I seriously dont want PayPal to be a big player in BTC business. Those bulky sharks come with a lots of regulation. Let them die with FIAT.

I despise PayPal for their greedy fees too, but in the end if there's money to be made they'll go after it or someone else will. At least for now, I see PayPal getting involved as something more beneficial to Bitcoin than Bitcoin being more beneficial to PayPal. Also remember, they both compete with each other!

Wont ever do it though too much tension between the 2.

As I've stated before, by promoting Bitcoin in any way they will inevitably weaken the value of Paypal as a payment system. Unless they perceive that the revenue from running a Bitcoin exchange (which will be costly to get the appropriate licensing in place as well as legal agreements in multiple countries) will greatly outstrip the losses from a shift away from Paypal I'm doubtful they would actually do it. Not to mention, the market that Bitcoin reaches is still tiny in comparison to what CC/PP reaches at the moment.

PayPal are known to freeze peoples assets and refuse to return funds, I wouldn't want to hold Bitcoin with them.

I think having Paypal involved is terrifying. They would define an experience that would rob normal users of any control.

You would trust Paypal?

There is not any reason or advantages to use PayPal to store BTC.
PayPal like holding your money in MtGox, you never know if it is there tomorrow  :D
The whole idea of BTC is to control your own money;

It's not quite like MtGox, I think that's exaggerating it a bit. Perhaps they could do something where they don't have access to your private keys, but tbh none of that matters when you're looking at this from a business sense. It doesn't matter how much we hate PayPal for their sharky fees, if it makes business sense to do this they'll do it. There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of people would get involved if PayPal got involved, and we can use the services we trust. Nobody can stop them, if they can make money doing it they'll give it a go.

I have a few hundred dollars on my PayPal account at all times, so sure. I mostly use it for buying though, so I'm aware that they don't treat their sellers too well. (I know how people charge back with virtual currencies and PayPal always backs up the buyer) Hopefully they will fix this policy and advance. Do I think the board members of eBay are smart enough to do this? Maybe. I would give it some time though as the only person on that board with a little bit knowledge about Bitcoin is Marc Andreesen.

I don't like PayPal any more than the next guy, but I do think it's in their best interest to provide some services related to bitcoin.

I couldn't agree more. Having Paypal as an intermediary will be similar to handing your coins over to MtGox in the past. You will experience the full set of braindead KYC, AML, and Anti-Terrorist schemes to take away control of your funds.

Don't use Paypal. Bitcoin makes it obsolete anyway.

I don't think that Paypal will be willing to take that risk. Thefts and hacks are very common in the Bitcoin sector. If some of the coins are stolen from the PP Bitcoin wallets, then according to the ToS, they will be forced to refund them. That will put them in a precarious position.

Umm.. PayPal will be providing their own service, which they would secure themselves. PayPal has never been hacked, and they get attacked WAY more than any Bitcoin service out there.

Paypal are already probably making there own Crypto currency should it all take off in the future.

You are oversimplifying things. Thefts and hacking do occur with Paypal accounts. Go to SR 2.0, and you can buy a bunch of hacked Paypal accounts for just around BTC0.2 or so. If so many hacks can occur with Paypal USD accounts, then imagine what will happen to the Paypal BTC accounts.

even if paypal offered the best wallet service, i still wouldn't use them. no way i'm helping a multi-billion dollar company grow bigger and gain more influence so that normal people like myself will get fucked over.

No it doesn't.

Try to sell stuff on ebay and include in your listing that you will only accept Bitcoin and see what happens.

paypal could be affected by future seize over bitcoin, or have trouble with wharever legal classification btc fits in the future. In their license terms they said it is forbidden to use paypal to trade currencies.

Think they are more interested on profit from high taxes of product selling than act like an exchange, and have more risks and maybe a legal nightmare in some parts of the world

NO payment processor of any importance is going to implement a digital currency that has the stability approximating the attention span of a fruit fly.

When are you people going to grow up and get back to basics?

I would be okay with using PayPal as an exchange but I would never let them hold the keys to my wallet.

Paypal will have to embrace bitcoin or fade away. I think they will be clever and take up butcon as a method of topping up money in users' accounts. They can reject bitcoin now, but it will be unstoppable in a few years. When more online payment wallet businesses gain market share, they will be too late to react.

ehhh I don't really agree.

if paypal started some sort of business model that incorporates bitcoin, how many here would even use them? i know i for one wouldn't.. it's fucking paypal after all. maybe i'm wrong, but i don't think paypal could pull it off.

They probably would benefit by offering a wallet service but it would require a huge investment and a ton of work. They would need to hire engineers, support people, more HR people, etc. They'd need office space for all these people too. It would be like building another small company.

It is highly unlikely that Paypal will play ball and if they do then it would come with high fees. 

PayPal often refuses to return funds. Nobody want to hold their Bitcoin with them. 

No way in hell would I want paypal handling my bitcoin...they could freeze an account at their sole discretion the same way they do already. I don't even remotely trust them to store money. I use paypal for 2 things that let me make transactions without tying up my bank info. Once those two adopt bitcoin as a payment method, good riddance paypal...forever.

Here's the thing - bitcoin IS a payment processor, same as paypal. Bitcoin does the job 100 times better and more efficiently than paypal.

There really isn't much paypal can do because it's already established itself and its policy. In order to compete with bitcoin, they'd have to eliminate their fees or just offer an annual payment option in a low enough amount it is the equivalent of pennies. They'd have to completely decentralize itself in holding people's bitcoin.

It'll never happen. Once bitcoin as a payment processor gains traction, I fully predict paypal will implode - they have millions of unhappy customers who hate them but use them because they have no other viable options. Once bitcoin becomes one, pp will lose a solid core of their business. It will respond with raising fees to offset the loss, then tightening restrictions which will meet backlash, to then surrendering to "free" right before they go out of business. Western Union will also follow suit, probably before paypal does. Walmart money grams will also fall.

Paypal had the right idea when it started out...but once it got beyond a certain point, it became more or less draconian because it was the only option.

I'd imagine paypal closes its doors in the next 5 years.

paypal is corrupt in its core
only bad things happened to me through using paypal, not one bad thing since using bitcoin
dont want to do business with them ever again

This would be my fear as well. There are just far too many horror stories to trust them with decent amounts of money, and I've personally had my own problems with them. Bitcoin is an even bigger risk than fiat in that regard, and I just can't fathom taking that plunge without protection.

PayPal = Blockbuster Video.

Overcharging middle-men parasitic pieces of shit that will be out of business within 5 years. Bitcoin makes Paypal and similar services 100% obsolete.

There is no way I would ever let those money grubbing sharks near my bit coin or private keys. Companies like paypal are part of the problem bit coin seeks to solve.

I'm curious as to how much in fees Paypal would try and tack on to do BTC transactions (once supported).   Also, how would they go about collecting their fees, since they usually just keep a percentage of the money sent or whatever (would it be in BTC or fiat)...

I'd venture out and say the same as normal (2.9% + 30 cents). And that it would be taken in Bitcoin.

Their costs for letting people transfer fiat would be the same for Bitcoin, so I don't see any difference there. They do have a lot of overhead...

Anything and everything that makes bitcoin more mainstream is good right now

No thank you. I don't want PayPal near Bitcoins. They will fuck it up, I am 100% sure of that and nobody can convince me otherwise. They will freeze funds, lose coins, etc. Never ever would I use a Bitcoin service provided by PayPal after they fucked so many legit Bitcoin resellers.

1. I don't think, anybody hacked Paypal and just got a bunch of account-credentials out. They "hacked" on the user-site not on the server-site, e.g. installing keyloggers, phishing, etc.
2. What is the difference between a "Paypal USD accounts" and a "Paypal BTC accounts"? You have a Paypal-Account and you can store money there. I don't see how, the kind of money you store has any influence about, if you get "hacked"

Sounds like they will fit right in with other bitcoin exchanges  ;)

Which is why I don't use them. ;)

FTFY.

Anyway, I'm doubtful you'll have to worry about that eventuality. Having a Bitcoin wallet on PayPal doesn't exactly benefit PayPal, if they started to charge fees both consumers and merchants can use clients (like Electrum/Multibit/Qt) that don't actually cost you for using the client. And without fees all they are doing is competing with themselves and earning nothing from it. Unless they come up with a way to generate profits from running a Bitcoin wallet without actually charging fees it won't be implemented.

The value of my bitcoin would greatly benefit from Paypal providing a wallet service.


Although seriously, getting PayPal onboard would be fantastic. For all the hate, for the vast majority of 'mom and pop' types, they do an excellent job.

Following this thread I find it interesting that everyone is so anti-paypal.  The fact is where would commerce be today without it.  They were a catalyst for e-commerce growth especially for small to medium size businesses.  Can they do the same for bitcoin if they venture in?  Not sure but they will engage if the time is right.

For those fearing they will hold coin, steal etc.... that has already happened with Mt. Gox and others.  Anybody doing a risk analysis of their funds would have scored Paypal at a 95%+ trust level and Mt. Gox at like 5%.

Finally, because this is decentralized by nature how can they screw it up.  Everyone will just have more choices.  More options are  a good thing.

Paypal would benefit but users probably wont the amount they'll want in fees. Suppose it spreads bitcoin to a bigger audience though.

Paypal is a payment platform. They know bitcoin is going to replace them, that is the reason they are banning it. Deep down, they also know they will be forced to incorporate bitcoin in the future. I think they should be in the bitcoin market before new entrants comes in. Experienced bitcoin users may not want to use Paypal bitcoin wallet, new bitcoin users will, and there are more of them than us.

Pardon me but horseshit.

This right here. I think them having banned Bitcoin in the past (they appear to not do this anymore, afaik) has nothing to do with them not wanting it, but because of the regulation that was surrounding it. If it was declared illegal and they were allowing Bitcoin sales, that would be a huge liability. They needed to ensure the green light was given first.

Well there is that but I don't see it as a primary reason.

What do you think is the primary reason then? Their CEO stated that he wants to implement Bitcoin to eBay and PayPal, so their hostilities can't possibly be because THEY didn't like it. That or they flip-flop.

What is your view on this?

Simple.

The credit card companies to which Paypal and ebay are beholden will never allow it.

I doubt that PP will do that, but anyway I don't think they will benefit so much from it though "Considering how much there fees are they won't be able to get close to that if they work on BTC".

So basically your theory is that the CC companies are running (through, for all intents and purposes, threats -- as PayPal relies on them) PP/eBay and are ensuring they don't do anything to hurt that relationship?

That seems plausible as well. And I guess it would fit in line with them (CC companies) banning merchants that offer cash discounts or charging more for CCs (as it's essentially the same thing, just in a different manner).

Basically the CC companies will not engage in payment methods which they cannot control.

Does this mean that you feel the CEO is lying when he says they are actively looking into ways to implement Bitcoin into both eBay and PayPal as a payment method? I think that speaks pretty strongly about their plans.

OK, here is the deal; short and sweet or sweet and sour, as the case may be.

The credit card companies have a strong policy in favour of the buyer, which includes a chargeback or forced refund method.

If Paypal sets up a Bitcoin payment option are you willing to give Paypal the key to your Bitcoin wallet in order to facilitate refunds?

(Waiting)

(Frogs: Ribbit, ribbit!)

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab58/drppanda/groupcrickets.jpg (http://media.photobucket.com/user/drppanda/media/groupcrickets.jpg.html)

Waiting........................................................................ ......................

That's what I thought.

Thank you for your support.

I personally wouldn't because they've screwed me in the past. But we're not mainstream with Bitcoin and PayPal is most definitely mainstream. This means they will benefit greatly because TONS of people are going to utilize their services. Those who can't secure their own accounts will rely on PayPal. Those who don't understand Bitcoin will use PP. These people will most definitely constitute the majority.

With no chargback option Bitcoin will never, ever, not now, not ever be adopted by Paypal.

End of story.

Move along.

Nothing further to see here.

The way I see it, they would force chargebacks in fiat.

I buy something from you for 0.5 BTC (value of BTC is $500). You don't ship. The chargeback would be done to your bank account for $250, the value of the Bitcoin at the time of purchase.

I'm almost positive they are planning to use BTC as an intermediary (like Bitpay). ie. when I send the 0.5 BTC for my purchase, they convert it to fiat and pass it off (and at the same time cash in that Bitcoin).

"The way I see it, they would force chargebacks in fiat."

Thereby defeating one of the purposes of Bitcoin.

When are you people going to get it?

What you have to keep in mind is that how YOU feel is irrelevant. How *I* feel is irrelevant. How we (as a community) feel is irrelevant. We are ALL in the minority.

PayPal will do what makes them money. If they implement Bitcoin payments, people *are* going to use it. It is *going* to bring Bitcoin more mainstream. What you, I or the entire Bitcoin community think means absolutely nothing; PayPal will be able to push things out there. People have heard of Bitcoin but are afraid to use it. PayPal will "ease" this fear in them and bring them on board. It's *their* opinions that matter; those of the people who aren't technologically minded. Those who don't understand what's going on.

You need to leave your own feelings out of this because they don't matter to PayPal. They aren't trying to bring *us* on board; we're already here.

They don't care what Bitcoin was MADE to do. They care whether or not it is going to make them profit. Altering its use to profit is exactly what a business is supposed to do, so I guarantee they will.

Do you think bitcoin will and can only be used in ways that fully embrace all its purposes ? Of course not.
It is obvious that there will be service providers who accept bitcoins for merchants but will enforce chargebacks on a FIAT reserve of the merchant. There is absolutely no need to have access to a BTC wallet of the merchant.
Ecommerce requires trust and without chargeback security consumers will not trust. If paypal is not offering this, someone else will.

I want Paypal nowhere near Cryptocurrency.  I hate those ****ers.

Paypal is smart they will survive somehow.

Paypal will be history in 5 years. It took them about that long to get to mass adoption...so bitcoin would take less time to go mainstream and do it better. Paypal can't compete with bitcoin. They might offer a wallet service but the second people learn enough about bitcoin they will not put their coin in paypal unless they're stupid.

They can't offer anything to outdo bitcoin, neither in service, currency and certainly not security.

It's the difference between a corporation selling bottled water or confiscating it at a whim, and everyone having their own well spring in their back yard with lifetime pure water. Only an idiot would buy from the corporation.

Western Union though will fall before paypal simply because online is more convenient than offline. Once people understand they can send money instantly for pennies, online, they will never step foot inside another WU.

Soon as the infrastructure is in place and the transition is smooth, mass adoption will escalate and these two will begin to implode as people leave them or stop using them in droves.

Yeah, I mean nobody has heard about Bitcoin that still doesn't use it. Everyone I've talked to on the street uses Bitcoin actively and has changed away from PayPal.

You're delusional.

Bitcoin and PayPal are catering to two VERY DIFFERENT types of people. What you're saying is analogous to "motorcycle companies are going to go out of business because cars were created and they're safer and offer more features." Different people.