Bitcoin Forum

Putin sells GAS to china

bullshit

EU & US so weak  :(

Sure, why not? If you run a business you need customers. China is a big customer.


Everything is about money, not about you, not about the people in Ukraine.

Burn wood.
LOL

Everything is about money?

ABSOLUTELY WRONG !!!  >:(

your parents bought you to the world, for what?  for money ????????

two mother-fuckers can trade each other  :(

In the eyes of politicans, yes. Calm down and let me explain.

There is always a financial aspect to war in the eyes of the politicians/banksters. Sending an army over costs a lot of money, so they want to benefit in one way or another.
The International Monetary Fund has approved a two-year $17.1 billion loan package for Ukraine, this is one way to get money back. Another way is resources (both Russia and US/EU are interested in the resources in the Ukraine). Do you think the US wants to involve in a war on the other side of the globe for free?

no they want, even if they had some use of it, they would think twice before entering

they don't want to enter a conflict with Russia, they know what the conflict could cause and they're most probably going to stick with political and economic sanctions
military intervention?

they're not that brave, maybe just some financial help to Ukraine..

Only the winning keep the loot. Losing side have nothing.

the attack will cost more then the loot, modern warfare is too expensive
especially if you have to transfer your army from the other side of the globe and you can't just simply steal everything you see

Yes, china just signed some deal about gas with russia, they should have signed something but about bitcoins  ;D

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/china-russia-sign-400-billion-gas-deal/2014/05/21/364e9e74-e0de-11e3-8dcc-d6b7fede081a_story.html

http://rt.com/business/160068-china-russia-gas-deal/


This thread-title and start is absolutely horrible, fyi TS.



I just love that repeating scene of Putin and Xi Jinping cheering. Great times Ahead for everyone, bitcoiners aswell!

This deal is a win win situation for Russia and China

Russia - a sanction by western countries has little effect now to Russia. Europe needs Russian gas and Russia can sell that gas to China.

China - Most gas and oil came to China thru sea routes. This sea routes can be easily blocked in times of war. A supply of oil and gas coming from siberia make China not too dependent on sea routes.

Pipeline wont be built for years. 

Gas prices in China and Japan are way higher than they are in Europe.  Russia was effectively giving away charity to Europe for several decades in return for capital investment, lessening up on visas, et cetera - but it seems like relationship is dead now due to the Ukraine thing.

European gas bills are slowly going to be hiked up minimum 3 times within the next 10 years, so there isn't protests on the streets when Europeans have to pay international rates for natural gas.

Europeans will have to get used to wearing coats indoors, less they want to return to coal or frack more in Romania.

Can I Guess you're american?


What will this mean for americans, do you think? It basically means that the road to dollar collapse just got a lot Shorter. Russia and China will not purchase USD to trade between their countries, they will use their own currency. Soon others will follow. This means the Death for the petrodollar. That means: If my Guess was correct: You'll be wearing coats, guns and shoes indoors for some years to come.

While US and Europe put pressure on Russia for invading Ukrane, Russia is surely going to sell cheap gas to China. China is their ally afterall. Internation trade is politics.

Natural gas is all about location.  Location.  Location.  Location.

If you can't get it somewhere it is worth less there it is and more where it isn't.  That is why natural gas is so cheap in America as well.  The price will stay that way until the pipeline is built (4 years) or demand lowers (unlikely).  Europe has a few years to change sources and MUST START NOW on meaningful plans or they will get quite cold.  Except for France. 


The USA is in better shape then the naysayers would like to believe.  Ten years ago the USA was reliant on imported oil and gas and had to pay for it.  If this where to have happened ten years ago there would be bigger problems.  Now the USA is a net energy exporter and is only growing output.  People will have to pay for that energy in USD.  Even if the market is small, the USA will not be hurt, it won't be purchasing much energy from hostile players. 

Except China's trade deals with Russia, Australia, Germany, the EU, Iran, Brazil and a slew of others, and its recent massive gold buy up, and its heavy investing in green and futures tech, and a slew of other things has put China in the #1 spot, already surpassing the US in Jan/Feb as the #1 exporter in the world...and the US doesn't really do shit anymore but give dipshits in suits consulting jobs.

China doesn't have to set foot in this country to take down the US. They want to conquer the world economically and they're actively and systematically doing so while the US bloats and smugly hollers "we're nummer one!" all the way into poverty.

We will be hurt and hurt badly when China, Russia and others knock out the petrodollar, toss the US bonds, devalue our currency and send it into the ultimate unrecoverable nosedive.

We're not #1. We're #2. And living in denial. China can easily make the US its bitch. The arrogance of the oh so mighty US is the problem that will only make our Empire fall that much harder and more of a shock to the unexpecting.

@Serenitys: Only the People With capacity/capability to understand/know are in denial. Theese are just repeaters of printed lies. Thanks for writing what I meant but was too lazy to put in print :)

but bitcoin...

They've only announced the value of the deal. Not the currency it will be traded in. <-- Actual fact. Bitcoin?  :o

The Obama administration is actually making the Europeans scapegoats for their imperial ambitions. They are forcing Russia to divert their natural gas to the East, to make sure that Obama's friends (the Arabs) can sell their expensive LNG to the Europeans. The Europeans are too stupid to notice this. They will only woke up when their gas bills increase by 3 times.

Ummyeah. I'm curious about what will happen in Europe on the political scene. If EU goes along With US they will make a huge loss financially. The question that arises is: Will the EU bilderbergers push their pro-USA/UK/West agenda through anyway? If they do, the nationalistic parties will surely rise to Power faster and get huge momentum. This will in 2-20 years be a huge loss for the current established Powers of the west. If they don't, they could probably keep their political Power over the European sheep.

You are over-estimating the intelligence of the Europeans. Sure, they are more intelligent when compared to the Americans. But not to the extent of giving majority to the anti-establishment parties. Look at Germany. The far-left and the far-right combines to less than 5% of the votes in national elections. The situation is same in almost all the other European nations.

The gas deal is also a currency deal cutting the U.S. dollar out of the oil business.
Russia will be making similar deals at the BRICS gathering.
IMF reports that world reserves in 2000 were 55% USD.
in 2013 that number was down to 30%.

This isn't about gas.
This is about ending the $ as world reserve currency.

I expect half of europe, half of the middle east, half of south america and nearly all of asia are probably going to be just the first to make these currency and energy deals.

Oh then Russia turns around and buys 900,000 ounces of gold with US treasuries.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-21/russia-dumps-record-amount-us-treasurys-here-what-it-buying

Anyone else putting this together?

I was wondering about this when I read the article on RT
Perhaps it is part of The birth of a Eurasian century: Russia and China do Pipelineistan as the article suggests
At the minimum the US is going down in influence and losing countries of influence
Russians accepting Chinese currency and not the Petrodollar is just one step towards weakening the US dollar and its influence so it will be interesting to see how the trends change over the next few years.
http://rt.com/op-edge/160160-pipelineistan-brics-economy-deals/

EU will go to a financial loss. The agenda will stay the same way, this is in the interest of the EU politicians.


Indeed, most Europeans simply believe the stories the press tells them.

There was another significant gas deal which was signed along with the Gazprom deal. But it got overshadowed by the latter, that it received no media coverage.

Novatek and China's CNPC Sign LNG Supply Deal

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/novatek-and-chinas-cnpc-sign-lng-supply-deal/500497.html

Novatek will export 3.3 billion cubic meters (3 million tons) of LNG to China every year. Around 8% of the initial Gazprom deal. So this takes the combined exports in the first stage to 41.3 b cu.m (38+3.3).

Frightening figure on the 2013 number.

If the figure is correct, where did all the usd end up?

http://s011.radikal.ru/i316/1405/15/9253cbbcd2b4.jpg

Burn wood.

When a country has reserves in a currency it no longer needs it sells them on the open market.
It ends up back in the country it is issued in the form of inflation.

Now Rosneft is trying for a China deal.

On the Heels of Gazprom, Rosneft Eager to Export Gas to Asia

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/business/article/on-the-heels-of-gazprom-rosneft-eager-to-export-gas-to-asia/500664.html

Us has lost it's number #1 spot in everything and it on the verge of collapse for 20 years now.
But , this only to the eyes of some people!

China? You're taking about exports and lots of people are yelling  , everything is made in China , then explain this:
1    China   $ 2,209,600,000,000[3]   2013
3    Germany   $ 1,493,000,000,000   2013 est.

1 billion Chinese vs 80 millions Germans.
If everything is made in China , where do those exports go and what the hell are ?

Detailed maps of the ESPO pipeline:

http://acdemocracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Russia-China-pipeline.jpg

http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/3b0a8c038.jpg

WW2 - fought to contain Germany and prevent them from conquering Europe. . .  

2014 - Germany has conquered Europe.  Germany they get 100% access to all the 'colonies' (EU) and also get the best and talented of the Eastern Bloc and Iberia.  Germany gets all the Arbeiters (Slave workers) they want from Europe and Generalplan Ost also happens too (Germany assimilating Slavic and other European migrants)   Like in Lebensraum plans, Germany products face no competition in Eastern Europe and German firms get 100% access to natural resources and agricultural lands in the east.

Germans also had sexual slavery during the war - contemporary times, who knows how many sex slaves there are in German brothels.

 Looks like Nazism won WW2 to me.  If you looked at Nazi Germany, the radicals were only a small percentage anyway, so the results would had been the same had they won it back in 1945 (instead of winning it when the EU treaty was signed)


Cold War - It is claimed that 'Communism lost' but future historians will regard the Cold War as having been won by China, not the USA.  USA is dying while China is poised to supplant it. 

There are many US military bases inside Germany. They are not independent but did get some of the ideas the nazis wanted, yes, but implemented in a different way. The other European countries are not forced to speak German for example;

Military conquest face opposition.

Economic conquest is welcome by all nations as it improve standard of living of the local.

Dollar collapse can benefit all countries. Depends on how its played. Perhaps new USA gov can start issuing money directly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost

Reality is that Russians are with guns, not slaves, and EU/Germany pay for Russian goods.

It's unlikely that anybody would welcome financial slavery. See baltic states, for example... Not been a single year with positive growth of population since "democratization". Their governments are talking about democracy and occupation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=366048.msg6296959#msg6296959), and in the meantime they are in real danger of extinction.

Is it "improvement of living standards"?

http://s006.radikal.ru/i214/1404/30/ef74eb801ca1.png

Well, ~20% drop of population since democratization... Thanks, but I would prefer to use the word "genocide" here.

on a related note, does anything think that when russia was "cracking" down on gay people.. it was meant to "unify" the country, to basically check how much fervor there is within russian society? that would be a good way of preparing for war, as the nazis did it. just find someone to hate/point your finger to, and then everybody who is not part of that group will become untied in disenfranchising those people.

Ummno.

1, they didn't "crack" down on gay people. They banned HBTQ propaganda for minors.


2, they are not preparing their citizens for war. They don't have to, Russian people are far more educated about the world then westerners.

3, USA/EU and YOU are preparing for war by demonizing russians as homphobic, anti-democratic etc.

Oh, c'mon, we see this gay-people-cracking-down stuff again and again... ;D Nobody cracking down on them, it's a total BS. Nobody cares about gays here, some pop stars and politicials are open homosexuals, they're still alive and active.

This "gay people prosecutions" bullshit is not even funny anymore. It's so far from the reality that I'm unable to imagine how anybody can believe that. This would be like a belief into spaghetti monster or martian invasion, the same level of stupidity.

Sexual orientation is nobody's business, it's a private matter. If some person thinks too much about someone's orientation, then he needs to visit a doctor, without any delay. This is the most popular point of view on this issue.

How did gas and oil turn into gay argument?

maybe you can explain this to me then http://www.advocate.com/world/2014/05/01/russias-gay-propaganda-law-takes-effect-crimea

that and how people in russia are being incited to physically assault gay people marching in public.


well, it's kinda pertinent in that it's about russian society.


you're from russia? russians generally, and i'm not implying that everyone is (but it's a trend), harbor a lot of hatred.. it's the nihilistic russian way. how can you explain these russian anti-gay laws? why do you think it's happening now (recently) all of a sudden? sometimes, in order to catalyze people, you need to find a central figure for them to hate on. here is an excerpt from the article linked above

It has also triggered a spike in homophobic violence, the subject of worldwide protests today in support of Russia's LGBT community, and a Dispatches documentary on Channel 4.

Are you mentally handicapped or are you actually being paid by US State Department?



Russians don't need to find unity threw hatred against minorities. They are United. Putin today has more backing than ever. Obama, and the west, however.. ehe. THEY are the ones who are putting Russians as the Central figure for hatred. They are building Public opinion against Russia. Theese are all very easy-to spot facts. Westerners are told to hate Russia, Iran and now even China and most likely you're all beginning to be fed With the facts of how horrible Saudi Arabia really is(They have apparently, as it seems now, chosen to no longer suck the ass of US).

nice rebuttal. using no logic, you just straight out call me "mentally handicapped." let me reciprocate: what are you, a kremlin? also, it's "than" and not "then." before you insult someone, make sure you don't appear ignorant.. mmkay?

read the article. putin's approval rating shot up, and it improved russia's morale. if you want to make a major move, you know, like take over crimea.. then you're going to want to boost morale up as much possible.

The situation in Lithuania is especially disappointing. During the Soviet times, Lithuania had a birth rate which was even higher than that of Russia and Belarus. Sadly... the nation now seems to be on the path to extinction.  ;D

It happens sometimes, when person suffer from some kind of mental illness. Don't ask me why, I'm also unable to understand this.

bryant.coleman, wrong smile.

I have no sympathies for them. They chose their own path. Sometimes people get so blinded by hatred to someone that they end up harming themselves. They tried to poke Russia by joining NATO and conducting NATO military exercises close to the Russian border. But at the same time they forgot that as a nation, they were fading away.

You seem to be genuinely questioning, as opposed to derisive, so I'll try to answer you. If I am wrong, then at least my answer will server to enlighten others.

The answer moved to a more relevant topic:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=584031.msg6891605#msg6891605

Hmm... now Putin has got $25 billion as pre-payment.  ;D

Gazprom, CNPC agree on $25 billion advanced payment on gas contract

http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/732812

Putin hopes for diplomatic, economic boost with planned sale of gas to China

Yes.

Citizen and leaders in some small countries acting irrationally against a bigger opponent next to them. Knowing full well their own country can be crushed with little effort either military or economically.

It isn't just Russia neighbors acting this way. Vietnam, Philippine and Japan are also playing with fire with China. 

They get those workers because they pay more for their skills that the only reasons. Because they offer the money , the living and the working conditions people want. Else they would stay in their countries.

And that totally contradicts your second argument about slavery.

Why aren't they facing competition? Why aren't the products from your country doing the same?

Because half of Europe is made out of lazy people who want money from the goverment just because they were born there.

No, I didn't straight out call you mentally handicapped. There was a choice in there, you chose the first path. Funny, I thought someone working at the state department knew it's spelled "than" and not "then" when using the word like I did. Guess I was wrong THEN  ::)



Yes, right. They "cracked" down on homosexuals so that they could invade their own military base. Spot on, you got it bro!  ::)



In the comments of that article I linked on RT about this deal there's a lady.. Jane is her name it seems. Obviously there's a handful of people commenting and discussing what it means that this new deal was finished. In comes Jane:




 ::)

Got this one from another link , it's in russian so i can only guess what it really means with translate :

http://m.forbes.ru/news.php?id=258087

Contract payments "Gazprom" and the China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) for the supply of Russian gas to China is planned to be in dollars, Energy Minister Alexander Novak on the sidelines of the St. Petersburg Economic Forum on Friday. It transmits RIA Novosti .

Is this part right?

And here comes the warning for the EU.

Gazprom CEO says China gas deal will affect European market

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/23/uk-russia-forum-gazprom-china-idUKKBN0E30XL20140523

 ;D

No Weaning Europe Off Russian Gas Says Gazprom

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303749904579579301545939012?mg=reno64-wsj&url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424052702303749904579579301545939012.html

Is there a way to read the article without logging in or paying?

Not the same article but the same issue

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Business/Analysis/2014/Mar-17/250450-europe-will-find-it-difficult-to-wean-itself-off-russian-gas.ashx#axzz32YsMvKLI

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-27374070

A few points to remember here:

http://www.energytomorrow.org/blog/2013/february/~/media/EnergyTomorrow/blog/Top_LNG_exporting_nations_2011_for_postpng.ashx

http://www.bqdoha.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/gasitupinfo1.jpg

How much is gas compared to oil in profit/value? No time to check up, sry  :D