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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: saddambitcoin on May 23, 2014, 02:02:58 PM



Title: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: saddambitcoin on May 23, 2014, 02:02:58 PM
and now i'm stuck waiting an indefinite amount of time waiting for a gracious miner that will add this transaction to a block for no fee.

cmon its only 0.0001 BTC!



Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: Ron~Popeil on May 23, 2014, 02:37:47 PM
I hate that as well. I saw one take 5 hours once to confirm.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: bryant.coleman on May 23, 2014, 04:42:00 PM
Don't worry too much. I have heard about certain (zero tx fee) transactions, where it took almost 48 hours for them to get confirmed. So... in the end the transaction will get confirmed... but it is going to take a lot of time.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: saddambitcoin on May 23, 2014, 04:49:22 PM
Don't worry too much. I have heard about certain (zero tx fee) transactions, where it took almost 48 hours for them to get confirmed. So... in the end the transaction will get confirmed... but it is going to take a lot of time.

I know, it is more the uncertain nature of waiting that bugs me.  I don't need the coins to spend right away, but if it was a critical situation like that I'd be annoyed. Still, I guess it's a lot better than using a bank.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: sickpig on May 23, 2014, 04:57:13 PM
Don't worry too much. I have heard about certain (zero tx fee) transactions, where it took almost 48 hours for them to get confirmed. So... in the end the transaction will get confirmed... but it is going to take a lot of time.

I know, it is more the uncertain nature of waiting that bugs me.  I don't need the coins to spend right away, but if it was a critical situation like that I'd be annoyed. Still, I guess it's a lot better than using a bank.


if I had needed the money for urgent matter I would have paid a tx fee > 0


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: Satan666 on May 23, 2014, 04:58:58 PM
and now i'm stuck waiting an indefinite amount of time waiting for a gracious miner that will add this transaction to a block for no fee.

cmon its only 0.0001 BTC!

The miners are just a bunch of greedy bastards.  Like that extra 0.0001 BTC on top of the 25 BTC block reward really makes a difference.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: saddambitcoin on May 23, 2014, 05:02:41 PM
and now i'm stuck waiting an indefinite amount of time waiting for a gracious miner that will add this transaction to a block for no fee.

cmon its only 0.0001 BTC!

The miners are just a bunch of greedy bastards.  Like that extra 0.0001 BTC on top of the 25 BTC block reward really makes a difference.

The fee is there to stop spam dust transactions from clogging the network, from what I recall.

I'm just complaining about the wait time.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: jonald_fyookball on May 23, 2014, 06:19:31 PM
Weird. I usually don't include fees and I've never had to wait.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: BSIG on May 23, 2014, 06:23:39 PM

some people are extremely frugal  :)


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: jonald_fyookball on May 23, 2014, 06:24:55 PM
Why should I pay a miner for fees when they are getting 25 bitcoins for the block?


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: Meuh6879 on May 23, 2014, 06:31:01 PM
cmon its only 0.0001 BTC!

if it's a small amount, time is not a problem ... you can't eat with this sum. ;D
48h max, i confirm this (only if it's a valid transaction ... canotical and dust error is HEAVY since 3-5 days).

http://www.adorpheus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/eat.gif


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: saddambitcoin on May 24, 2014, 03:02:55 PM
Weird. I usually don't include fees and I've never had to wait.

I think it the waiting game only happens if the coins are very young. I just waited almost 48 hours to receive confirmations for a no fee transaction that was under the size limit, no outputs less than 0.01, but the coins were generated somewhat recently so I think that was the delay.

Anyway, they will confirm you just have to wait longer. 


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: bg002h on May 24, 2014, 09:20:15 PM
I wish miners would just fill blocks...why the artificial scarcity for a few pennies? It'll be a while before tx fees amount to much anyhow, why screw around with trivial fees _now_?


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: Meuh6879 on May 24, 2014, 09:21:38 PM
to don't spam the bitcoin network (and stuck it ...).


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: phillipsjk on May 24, 2014, 09:30:00 PM
I wish miners would just fill blocks...why the artificial scarcity for a few pennies? It'll be a while before tx fees amount to much anyhow, why screw with around with trivial fees _now_?

I currently have my miner set to 500kB blocks. I also told my miner to include up to 196kB of "high priority 0 fee transactions", which is basicly reasonable amount of Bitcoins that have not moved around in a few days.

My miner has two limitations that prevent full 1MB blocks:
  • VDSL connection; only about 5Mbps up. This means that if I send a 1MB block to more than 1 node simultaneously, it will take over a second: possibly increasing the chance of an orphan.
  • I have not upgraded the old CPU yet. Before I can start mining a new block, I have to verify the old one. This can take several seconds. On P2Pool, that means I am going to have a 10% stale rate or so (my mining blade is responsible for the bulk of my stale rate though).


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: bg002h on May 24, 2014, 09:54:48 PM
I wish miners would just fill blocks...why the artificial scarcity for a few pennies? It'll be a while before tx fees amount to much anyhow, why screw with around with trivial fees _now_?

I currently have my miner set to 500kB blocks. I also told my miner to include up to 196kB of "high priority 0 fee transactions", which is basicly reasonable amount of Bitcoins that have not moved around in a few days.

My miner has two limitations that prevent full 1MB blocks:
  • VDSL connection; only about 5Mbps up. This means that if I send a 1MB block to more than 1 node simultaneously, it will take over a second: possibly increasing the chance of an orphan.
  • I have not upgraded the old CPU yet. Before I can start mining a new block, I have to verify the old one. This can take several seconds. On P2Pool, that means I am going to have a 10% stale rate or so (my mining blade is responsible for the bulk of my stale rate though).


Are you a mining pool operator then? I can see the delay being an issue of propagating a larger solved block to the rest of the network...especially if you upload to another slow node (it's one at a time, just like downloading blocks, right?).

It's a bit ironic, the high compensation for the block reward incentivizes small blocks or large tx fees. I now recall a discussion on the dev list on this. Well, time will change this as block reward decreases.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: phillipsjk on May 24, 2014, 10:05:48 PM
I am a P2Pool node. If I was operating a large mining pool, I would have my node in a data-center (with faster Internets+CPU).


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: Beliathon on May 24, 2014, 10:35:45 PM
Don't worry too much. I have heard about certain (zero tx fee) transactions, where it took almost 48 hours for them to get confirmed. So... in the end the transaction will get confirmed... but it is going to take a lot of time.

I know, it is more the uncertain nature of waiting that bugs me.  I don't need the coins to spend right away, but if it was a critical situation like that I'd be annoyed. Still, I guess it's a lot better than using a bank.
People complain about a NO-FEE transaction taking 48 hours, but then sit by and allow their banks to collect ALL KINDS of unjustifiable fees, while bank transfers take 2-5 business DAYS.

People really just like to complain.

http://rouju.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/sometimes-u-can-make-it-on-your-own-donkey.jpg



Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: isidore on May 25, 2014, 12:27:42 AM
you should make it understood that a transaction isn't considered sent until it is confirmed.
a transaction with no fee is no better than someone writing u a check and not paying the bank to maintain their account.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: TheButterZone on May 25, 2014, 12:56:13 AM
If you spend BTC properly you won't need a fee to get included in the next block.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: Jcw188 on May 25, 2014, 12:58:24 AM
At some point a minimum fee of SOMETHING should be required. After all BTC  block rewards to going to go down and down and then the fees are the only way the miners will continue and make sure the BTC network is secure. People sending with no fee are in fact selfish free riders.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: ranlo on May 25, 2014, 01:00:07 AM
and now i'm stuck waiting an indefinite amount of time waiting for a gracious miner that will add this transaction to a block for no fee.

cmon its only 0.0001 BTC!

The miners are just a bunch of greedy bastards.  Like that extra 0.0001 BTC on top of the 25 BTC block reward really makes a difference.

The fee is there to stop spam dust transactions from clogging the network, from what I recall.

I'm just complaining about the wait time.

It's for this and to help give added rewards. When the block rewards are almost 0, miners will only be rewarded based on transaction fees. Might as well get in the habit of paying them now, :p.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: Light on May 25, 2014, 01:05:38 AM
With most clients already sticking in a fee or asking you to change your fee to a more appropriate one according to your tx I still find it hard to believe people try and send without a fee. Yes there are cases where you can make a feeless tx and have it confirm in reasonable time but in general you won't be able to do so, so unless you're willing to wait and 5c matters so much to you then why bother.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: ranlo on May 25, 2014, 01:10:40 AM
With most clients already sticking in a fee or asking you to change your fee to a more appropriate one according to your tx I still find it hard to believe people try and send without a fee. Yes there are cases where you can make a feeless tx and have it confirm in reasonable time but in general you won't be able to do so, so unless you're willing to wait and 5c matters so much to you then why bother.

If the amount you're sending is 0.01 BTC+ and is under 10KB, sending without a fee shouldn't cause any issues. There are not enough transactions to fill blocks yet (as far as I'm aware), and most pools/miners should be picking up the 0.01BTC+ no-fee transactions without hesitation.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: wachtwoord on May 25, 2014, 02:25:54 AM
Frugality ftw!  :D


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: haploid23 on May 25, 2014, 08:26:30 AM
Most of us already know the use of transaction fees, but I know for certain that Mr. Average Joe Blow that uses bitcoins will not understand the technical aspect of it.

And if you are Joe Blow, this is for you  :D: You do not need to pay a transaction fee if the coins in your wallet are "mature" enough. If they're not mature and it's a small payment, then you're at the mercy of the miners to confirm your payment if you decide not to pay the fee. SO PAY THE FEE.


Title: Re: pet peeve: when people send bitcoins with NO TX FEE
Post by: Krang on May 25, 2014, 11:02:49 AM
I always send a fee but I can understand when newbs dont, especially if their faucet dust has been hard worked lol