Bitcoin Forum

hackers love bitcoin and store their wealth and do transactions in bitcoin because they know, not even them can manipulate the code.

yet the FIAT system can be hacked and have balances adjusted.

which do you think is more secure.

if you chose FIAT. read this:
http://buzzblips.com/global-gang-of-hackers-steals-45-million-from-atms-in-12-hours/

if you hold bitcoin on your PC and FIAT in your bank. which are you more worried about being manipulated, now you read the news article.

Mostly agree, but let me play devils advocate.

Banks spend millions on security.....
Average user PC is vulnerable.


Your turn :-)

Fiat banks have insurance, so no customer funds were lost in that hack.  Keep tryin'. ;)

Yeah, my money is safer from the average thief in a bank.

My computer was hacked last week and I lost 0.77 BTC from my Coinbase account. Not a lot since I'm smart enough to keep the big bucks safer, but it still stung that I was that lazy about security. I should have known something wasn't right.

 ;D bank generate money ... 60 milliard in 1 month precisly.







Cheating monkey proof !
Bank always win ... like casino.  ::)

Please don't feed the trolls

Yes, bank generate money for benefit of humanity.  :)

FIAT still got stolen from source ( bank database ) - cost, millions on security.
no one can steal bitcoins directly from the bitcoin protocol ( blockchain ) - cost, nothing

separate type of theft:
pick pocketing does happen alot every day
bitcoin scams and trojans happens alot every day but not to the extent of total world crimes of back pocket wallet theft

and as for personal security. paper wallet.. costs just the price of ink and a few minutes work. no armd guards, auditors checking for loses, no managers, no bullet proof vests, no bullet proof money trucks, no timelocked vaults, no institutional oversight committees like fincen SEC.

just one man, a piece of paper and a printer.

This is why FED bastards fear bitcoin so much !

In Bitcoin world They can't cheat  ;D

now i come to think of it.

the ATM theives done the world a favour.

banks now have to print more bank notes, which offsets the balance.. which technically means that the amount of bank notes and bank customer account balances is higher compared to the bond debt..

so in theory.. the theft has helped reduce the bond debt by increasing bank note circulation and bank balances without increasing any bond debt.

i just say WATCH_DOGS

Eventually it will be hackable just like anything and until that day it mains relatively safe.

My, we are bored today.  Quick!  Someone generate China FUD!

Well suppose ive btc in my external haqd drive and i keep my fiat in the bank. now telling from my personal experience, ive never seen anything happening to the fiat i have but a month ago my little brother formatted the hard drive and i didnt have any backup for that wallet and so i lost all my coin. thats why i prefer fiat

Well that's just an accident, If you would still have your bitcoins you wouldn't let this happen just have your very own computer for bitcoins and other things that only you can access and things like this one wont happen, just need to be more safe!

Well everything is based on accidents and bad incidents and fiat getting stole from atm was on accident too. i could say that the there should be more security around the atm. and we have all seen thousands of btc scams like the gox thing, inputs.io case, n my case

Average user uses that PC to access the bank accounts... so it remains vulnerable :D

I don't see how that would make the fiat "protocol" hackable. ATMs got hacked, not the fiat. Same thing as supposedly happened with MtGox, they got hacked, not "bitcoin."

As far as "hacking" a protocol:

1. Dollar bills can be counterfeited, and bitcoins can't.
2. Bank ledgers can have errors, bitcoin ledger can't.

Eh, it's not really a flaw in the fiat system - it's just a lapse in security. The same can happen to any user who doesn't follow good security practices and thus has their coins stolen. Personally, I'm still far more inclined to say that the fiat system is safer - if needs be they can literally print more money to compensate losses as well as make the stolen money illegal for all intents and purposes which can't be done with Bitcoin.

But the thing is that the bank ledger errors can be corrected and fake dollar bills can also be destroyed if you keep your EYES open. But you can instantly loose your bitcoins by loosing your wallet and the backup. I've seen many people loosing their bitcoins because of deletion of the wallets. We need to come up with something more safe for the bitcoins.

Everything is hackable. Until that day it mains relatively safe!

Like...what?

How long do u think before bitcoin is hacked??  If I were the bankers I would throw a trillion into mining and commit a 51 precept attack...

and then how long would it be before bitcoin 2.0 comes out with a different proof of work hash, using a copy of the blockchain right before the attack?

This guy counterfeited untold multi millions in US currency. He handed over $250 million but ran this operation for years
http://abc7news.com/news/master-money-counterfeiter-prints-millions-says-screw-you-to-us/51231/

At least you can't counterfeit bitcoins.

So
So I should invest in a POS coin or bitcoin 2.0? When the day a 51 percent attack happens all that wealth will funnel out and into other crypto..

Some money will be funneled out.  How much is anyone's guess.  You should invest in bitcoin.
If that huge attack ever happens, it is almost certain a bitcoin 2.0 will arise quickly, preserving
most of the wealth.  But the fact that wealth can be transferred to a new fork or to another coin
is a huge disincentive for the attack to ever happen in the first place.

Have this conversation again in 18 months, and Banks will still be spending millions of their worthless fiat, but the average Bitcoin user will be totally invulnerable to theft.

You can quote me on that.

Done.  See you in 18 months.  :)

The ability to fork the block chain makes a 51% attack a waste of time and resources. They could mess with the protocol for a whole ten minutes before it is discovered and forked.

Haha, let me double quote that for you. Looking forward to the next year and a half.  ;)

There are a million stories on this forum, reddit, and elsewhere on why its a terrible idea for most people to "be their own bank".

what do you think is the solution?

I agree with you there.   I don't think there really is a way to be 100% secure, you just have to try your best on both BTC and fiat to be as safe as possible...  

1. get off this forum if your not into bitcoin :D (joke)
2. your story is not about bitcoin protocol hacking. your story is about user error. same thing can happen if your brother cut up your bank card, ID and birth certificate.. without other copies of your ID your bank wont give you cash :D

I don't have one, was just pointing that out. Most Bitcoiners trumpet that as an advantage, but for most people it may not be.

you're right... i think multisig + hardware is the only way... because most people are morons, not crypto-nerds.

same goes for the fiat side. there are alot of morons that leave their cash and debit cards in full view inside their car. easy to steal
alot of people get pick pocketed every day
card cloning.
diverted mail
work from home scams asking for upfront payments (multilevel (pyramid) schemes)

Pretty simple. Be responsible for your own stuff. If you can't do that you will end up losing it eventually anyway.

Yeah but fiat can be stored in a bank by a moron.
We need bitcoin banks for the masses.

kind of agree...

i prefer people to have hardware wallet for life savings in bitcoin (self secured) after all, bitcoin is all about gtting away from th old ways of banking.
a 'bitcoin bank' for daily spend amounts (easier to manage without losing)

but this whol conversation has meandered off course..

bitcoin THE PROTOCOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cannot be hacked. fiat bank accounts can.

again im not talking about what users do, hold.. im talking about the system

and the link in my OP proves that banks are not secure, hence not trusting life savings in a bitcoin 'bank'

Yeah but it's obviously relevant!

Think about it:  if bitcoin is supposed to be about getting away from old
Ways of thinking and into self responsibility, then the question changes
From "can the central system be hacked" to "can I the individual get hacked".

thats "USER ERROR" problems.

so again bitcoin cannot be hacked. FIAT CAN be hacked

and... people can be security morons whether bitcoin of fiat holders.(totally separate from the topic)

obviously security (of their coins) is what everyone
is concerned about at the end of the day.

Yes, its nice to know the protocol is safe.
With that, I agree.