Bitcoin Forum

We sell everything you need to get started mining Bitcoins at the lowest price of comparable systems on the market. Free shipping within the continental United States.

www.bc-mining.com

[edit]
The people have spoken. Consider this a preview. We will 'relaunch' soon with more economical systems and an option to buy with Bitcoins.

Really? lowest price on the market my a**

don't use false advertisement please, makes you look bad. Also, why don't you use 5970s instead?

please link lower prices.

also we dont use 5970's because 1. they are hard to find other then used on ebay and 2. the 6990 can be overclocked to get higher hash rates if the user is so inclined

bitcoinrigs.com's "Professional Rig" (http://www.bitcoinrigs.com/products/Professional-Rig-2000.html): $1 more expensive than your cheapest model (which seems equivalent - both use one 6990).

However... their cheapest model (http://www.bitcoinrigs.com/products/Enthusiast-Rig.html) is only $899.

Took me twenty seconds in Google. I used "mining rig site:bitcoin.org" to search, and clicked on the first link.

We don't offer the lower end systems that he does AND our systems are cheaper then his equivalent ones because we offer free shipping. Seriously folks, why the hostile attitude?

Allergic reactions to a misleading claim? That's certainly true in my case. I'm sure you provide a lovely service - it'd be even better if your marketing was accurate.

you can mine bitcoins on a $300 walmart special computer if you wanted to but you wouldnt get much out of it. Find a system for sale that has the performance of my systems for cheaper.

Why there is no description of rig's internals ? No data on MB, CPU, etc...

And it looks insanely expensive. Why would anyone use such case ?
Miner's profit is better when rig is as cheap as possible.

Fine. Then say that. Don't say...
...because it clearly isn't true.

go to ibuypower.com for example... choose the custom parts and you will see that it is probably less expensive. Any other similar sites should show less expensive parts.

Hell, I could do it much cheaper to ANYONE. I would even consider accepting bitcoins

I could do a 1x 6990 for 1200$ (or 1x5970 for 900$) and a 2x 6990 for 1985$ (or 2x 5970 for 1410$)

Yes, this includes a CoolerMaster HAF X. Shave off 150$ to get a lower end case

That means 750$ for a 600 Mh/s (I'll OC it to reach 625~660Mh/s)

Specs other than GPU would certainly help justify the price.  The base system seems far too highly marked up.  The price increase between the single system and the dual system is a bit more reasonable ($900 higher than base system for a $720 GPU and a bigger power supply (1200 watt?)).

But $1,800 for 600 mHash/sec?  I just built a 740 mHash/sec rig for only $900!

LFGTFY - I edited it to say "of comparable systems". Does that sufficiently address the issue?

nster - I'm providing a service to to people that don't know how or don't want to build their own machines. You simply have to plug it in and you're good to go. You could buy the parts to build a car cheaper then buying the premade car, does that make TOYOTA a sleezy company?

I'm saying I may be even ready to do it as well (ie: I build it, take a fee, and ship it ready to be used)

but a 130% markup, or 1000$ for the lowest end model is huge... if you factor in the case, its still an 850$ mark up and still over 110% more (ie: more than double the price)

It does, thank you.

Presentation is key when marketing something - if you appear less than honest it adversely affects the image of the product or service you're selling. It really pays to know your market and be aware of your competitors' offerings, but equally appearing to trash your competitors is less than ideal. Let your pricing and goods/services speak for themselves.

Seriously people, how is my service any different then bitcoin rigs except that its cheaper because I offer free shipping? Why is everyone hell bent on sinking my ship before it sets sail instead of offering constructive advice to a member of the community?

And the plan is to accept bitcoins as payment as well. we should roll that out in a few days if this hostility doesn't kill the service first.

I would recommend listing full specs of those rigs.

I assure you our systems cost more then that to build. our markup is closer to 30%, WELL below normal retail markup of 80-120%

thank you for the advice sir. I will get right on that.

in that case, show the system specs....

do realize that if you are selling computer that are meant for mining, and mining only (ie: no gaming) the best bang/buck are sempron+mobo combo at 80$. And no need of 1+TB HDDs etc. Else, advertise the as multi-functional rigs that do bitcoins as well (which is basically a gaming PC, which attracts a lot of market).

Also, doesn't a 6990 do more like 650Mh/s? and 2x = 1.3Gh/s?



It isn't that I don't like his prices, I could care less, it is the advertising saying they are the lowest priced for comparable setups.

working on detailed system specs now. should be updated in a bit.

ok, more detailed specs are up. I assumed all most people would care about is the hash rate but that's clearly not the case. Sorry for any confusion.

Would anyone be interested in lower end mining machines? If there's an interest we may expand the product line.

30GB SSD is a waste of money.... a cheapo 40$ Free shipping 500GB HDD will do great

1KW on the single GPU system is a waste

How is this only a 30% markup?

What is the speed gain on bootup, anyway? from 20 to 18 secs?


Yep, and you could drive 2x 5970 mildly overclocked safely with a good 850W. Dunno about 6990 though...


My guess is:

6990 retail: $699
Dual GPU: $2698
Single GPU: $2798

diff = $900, which is ~28.5% above $699... so putting it clearly, 30% markup on top of retail.

Just my 2 bitcents

I'd actually recommend a 16 gig SSD (Kingston).  I've put them in my mining rigs, they're only $50 (no tax/shipping) on Amazon.  Assuming you're building these as linux boxes, it's more than enough space, almost no power consumption, and the machine goes from off to the Ubuntu desktop in about 8 seconds (less if you use QuickBoot in the BIOS).

I'm selling quality machines. The SSD improves boot times over an HDD and has no moving parts to fail, reducing the likelihood of downtime. The power supply is high efficiency and leaves enough headroom for the user to overclock to their hearts desire. The machines actually produce a little over the 600mhash and 1.2 ghash advertised stock but i figured it would be better to round down then round up.

they are running windows 7 for end user ease of use. literally just plug them in and click and icon on the desktop and you are mining without messing with any command lines. Like Apple products, my machines are high quality and "just work".

Why should the user need to interact with the mining computer? Most good mining setups I see just plug in and turn on and autostart the mining software. And using windows 7 is just adding to your expenses. Not a very good business strategy, imo.

only reason the user has to interact with the machine is to put their info in for the mining pool they are using or their own bitcoin server. after that they can start automatically on after restart.

Listen, this service is for people that have never made a computer, don't know how linux works and just learned about Bitcoin on TV and want to know how they can get in on it simply. Yes I'm making a profit. This is a business. If you know how to make a computer and assemble it on your own then of course its cheaper to buy the parts and make it yourself. The same can be said for Dell or HP machines, or anything else for that matter.

If on the other hand you have never built a computer before, here I am, with a product that just works without any hassle.

www.bc-mining.com

That is a very valid point, and I was thinking to myself "why did this thread ever get derailed into a discussion of profit?"... then it dawned on me, you said you were the cheapest, there, blatantly. We are all nitpickers and given your price / performance ratio, it was just too damn easy to complain :)

Best of luck with your business, it is certainly filling a niche. Good service, bad advertisement wording.

I meant 1800$ for single-GPU or 2700$ for dual, how can it be a 30% mark up vs single parts?

do businesses typically talk about their expenses and markup? ask the guy that runs bitcoin rig how much his machines cost.

in which case you shouldn't have talked about mark ups.... Anyways, I figured it out kind of for anyone who was wondering

With newegg's prices, 1311$ (-30$ MIR but lets not count that), then add 50$ assembly, HDD image and misc fee, 40$ shipping, and that nets you to 1400$. Or if this includes a DVD burner, then thats another 20~21$ at newegg and take that out of the assembly fee. 1800/1400 = 28.5% profit

I would suggest offer linux instead of windows and take out 50~70$, perhaps downgrading to a 16GB SSD at the same time (ie: linux version is 70~100$ cheaper, but has a 16GB SSD and no windows). I'm correct to assume you are using legal copies of Windows? no pirated or MSDN or TechNet version correct?

When you become more popular, you may also offer a "Special" version that is only rarely available, that is quite a bit cheaper but features a used 5970 instead (ie: 100~200$ at least) whenever you find 5970s at 400~450$. That way, you cheapest version would be 1498~1598$ (5970 with linux version)

and when accepting bitcoin, at least 1.10$ USD per bitcoin seems reasonable, or 10% below Mt.Gox price or something.

just some ideas

http://img.techpowerup.org/110421/Capture150.png
http://img.techpowerup.org/110421/Capture151.png

I don't like the title of your thread, it's VERY misleading. "Mining Authority" implies you're exerting some sort of control over the mining system, which you do not.
how would that be useful? are you restarting your miner daily or hourly?
Most servers use hard disks, and they still have 99.99+% uptime

Purchasing/building a mining rig with Windows and a standard storage device (HDD or SSD) is a waste of money.

Operating System - OS should be some flavor of Linux with a customized first-time boot setup menu questionnaire for easy setup. Even better would be if the rig was completely headless and you wrote a little Windows application that can be run from any PC on the LAN to set it up (similar to many wireless router setups).

Storage - The rig should boot off of a cheap ($5 absolute max) ~1GB USB stick. There is absolutely no reason at all to spend money on any form of standard storage device at all.

When there are power outages of any sort, or if it is scheduled to run certain hours, you can shave a few seconds.... but you are right, no difference will be made time wise really. MAX 1 minute a week and like 50 minutes a year if you have a lot of outages.

A benefit of the SSD is that if it is practically immune to temp problems and noise problems.... if it is a dedicated miner, SSD or HDD shouldn't make much of a difference, and HDD space could as people may want to use it as a media center as well, so a 40$ 500GB HDD may indeed be better.

SSD is better than HDD, but it's just too expensive. the benefits you gain from using SSD for mining is just too little to justify the expense. I agree with xenon481, Mining machines should be using USB for storage.

Booting from a USB device is not very smart, as USB devices are not designed for this... Failures would be more common, and accidentally taking it out etc can become a problem. It also kills any versatility for the machine.

In what way would failures be more common?

Even if they are more common, who cares? They are cheap cheap cheap.

And you can work something out to mount the device internally so people don't take it out.

Why does a mining rig need versatility? I don't need 5 rigs with HDDs to be file servers.

Custom Mining Rigs are supposed to be appliances, not general purpose machines.

When purchasing with bitcoins is implemented it will be at current Mt. Gox exchange rate with a 5%-10% discount most likely.

nster, your obviously not the end user I'm trying to market to, but thanks for trying so hard to make me look disreputable to those I am approaching. I've done nothing wrong, I'm just trying to make my way in life like everyone else and you may have killed the project I've worked so hard on before it's started. Classy.

But since you've pointed it out to the world, yes your numbers are about right. my cost for the single GPU system is about $1300 and the 2 GPU system is $2000, not including the cost of shipping a 50lb machine across the country that I will be covering to give some extra value to the customers.

bitcoinrigs.com model is far superior, with a larger power supply and room for a third video card. That alone is worth far more than "free shipping".

Or compare their dual 5870 to your single 6990. The dual 5870 will hash faster and is $600 cheaper!

Heheh..don't let people get to you man. Do not worry, just do your thing as honestly and as frank as possible and let the chips fall where they may. But yeah dude you should definitely accept bitcoins. Many people here have a nice chunk of coins and they'd probably want to reinvest them in a good mining rig.

Another bit of advice, why not sell the rigs with one of those 4U rackmount cases. You can find them on newegg for like $74. The HAF X is a good case but it's overkill I think for a miner with EXTERNALLY exhausting cooling. If you were putting in there two internally exhausting cards then yeah I'd understand the need for massive airflow, but for a dedicated miner I think it's not necessary to go with such an expensive and high-end case. Sure a few people will buy it for the e-peen effect, but the serious miners/investors can build a much cheaper system on their own.

The only think you should not skimp on in my opinion is the power supply. The system must have a solid power supply with as high of an efficiency level as you can afford.

As for the SSD, just go for the cheapest SSD possible. That way it lowers the overall system price and gives you a bit more room for your markup charge.

Just my own 2 bitcoin cents worth :)..

Cheers!

I agree. Using first generation hardware = expensive. You pay a ridiculous premium for the "privilege" of using the absolute most high end video card ATI has to offer.

A far cheaper solution is to collect a bunch of 5870s. One can search one's own local auction or classifieds sites. There are plenty of good deals on 5870s! Just the other day I picked up TWO of them for $300 CAD!!! So as the old saying goes, look and ye shall find.

apple v's microsoft.

 :)

Imagine what it would cost to mine with that lol

I'd post pictures of probably the "cheapest" mining hardware going but it would freak too many people out what you can get away with on the hardware side ... and set bad examples ... in my defence, it is a prototype.

Thanks guys. Finally some constructive feedback. It would seem people are more interested in cheap mining systems then well made mining systems... I will adapt accordingly.

Naturally. The name of the game is profit margins.

Well Made Mining Rig = Cheap

Anything else isn't a mining rig.

can the SSD.  I use laptop sata hard drives in some of my dedicated mining rigs.  I pull the DVD drive out or at least the power plug when done loading. 

Using 1gb ram, 1 slowish laptop hard drive, and a single core CPU with a dual x16 slot MB and dual video cards is a dedicated mining rig, where the job of hashes is king and one does not care about user level system response.  You do not do anything bad that would actually slow down the hash rate, but you do nothing more then required IF it takes more power OR adds more cost.

If I was using it as a desktop on the side the machine would be different but then it would not be a dedicated mining rig.

Well here I was worried about releasing a product that would be perceived as cheap. I might as well put my personal system up for sale which has 2 used 5970's in a 4u case and keep these nice systems I built for myself :P

Well, I don't want to tell you your business but the gamer's rice-rocket, flash-splash gaming rigs probably not gonna work so well for profitable bitcoin mining ... it may look good but you'll be throwing money down a hole spending it on hardware accessories besides the GPU/CPU combo. Longevity, reliability is an economic driver but only needs to be as good as to get to next generation, don't think anyone knows exactly when that is ... better off putting some expense into some kind of PCI-e expansion and power supply upgrade options to get more kit in that fine tower box you're selling.

I think PCI-e extender/riser cabling should be a profitable business, (I want some).

Nice looking rigs you got there though.

Yes you should :) I'd buy one for sure ;)..if you let me pay you in bitcoins that is ;)...

you should really change the title for your topic. your business is not the authority of anything.

To the OP, from post # 33 I have been constructive and more helpful, it does not seem you have seen them. Remember that what bothers me is the claim of being the cheapest out there. I HATE false advertisment. All you did is being 1 $ cheaper then bitcoinrigs, but you did not consider other places like ibuypower etc. Also not that in post #33 I did include price of postage across the country.

For the person who is talking about USB sticks... failure rate and corruption rate of USB sticks in this use is very high compared to an HDD or SSD, which will result in headaches and downtime. They would have to buy a new stick and somehow download the bootable image, not to mention they would have to know how to make the USB bootable, or they would have to wait for a replacement from the OP. Both of which are HORRIBLE solutions with long down times, and lots of hassle for both the consumer and the seller. Versatility is an important part of ANY PC. Note that the target are NEWBIES also. Being able to use their mining rig as a media center as well would make the PC worth MUCH more to them, even if they don't use it, it is an option at least. If bitcoin mining is not profitable at all anymore, the PC would be worth a lot less to them if not media option or other is available to them. No USB solution is HORRIBLE and should not be implemented, ESPECIALLY not in this case

To the OP again, please re-read post #33 (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6256.msg91832#msg91832) and see if any of my suggestions would be of help. Also note that if you are selling rigs only for mining, people will be looking to make profit only, and therefore overkill parts is not useful to them. For example, the Case may be overkill, and the PSU on the 1st build too (though my guess is that you are taking the combo from newegg I listed?). Also, linux may be a great way to save 100$. This PC is not fit for gaming, so Windows is of no use here. I understand you want ease of use, but you can attain that with linux too. Also consider used 5970s.

Also: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=6262.0 is more appealing to people. less than half the price of yours for the same Mh/s

message received.

I don't believe it's as simple as that.

This was like someone selling zero-variance mining contracts, offering only 1Ghash/s at £1159 and claiming it's the cheapest way to buy zero-variance mining contracts. I'd complain if someone tried that, and I make no apologies for so doing.

This was about misleading claims. If the merchant hadn't made misleading claims about price they wouldn't have been criticised on their pricing. The merchant addressed the issue, which I appreciate and respect, but - frankly - they shouldn't have made this elementary error in the first place, and I'm surprised that people appear to believe it was OK.

Not only is the title of the thread misleading the offer is.

You really think that USB sticks are going to fail when you only read from them once per boot and never ever write to them? USB stick failures are primarily due to low quality NAND not holding up to significant amounts of writes. In a USB boot model, you'd NEVER write to the stick (except for one time setup) and only read once per boot because everything would be done within a RAM drive. This is a very typical model for cheap appliances which is what mining rigs are supposed to be.

And if you still think failure rates are a significant problem, then just ship two of them. That will still be ~10x or more cheaper than an SSD or even HDD.

Just copy the usb drive to another usb drive (ie image it) and have a backup in case the main one fails. But as xenon481 said USB sticks are not very likely to fail. Go for a fairly decent brand and you should be fine.

My field experience using USB flash for read-once-per-boot storage is miserable.  Six months after deploying such a solution, random failures started appearing.

I would not recommend using low-quality USB flash drives for anything in production....  especially read-once-per-boot solutions, where you only discover a dead USB stick when you most need it to work.

Been there, done that.

Network booting is far more reliable.

I've used a few hundreds of appliance type rigs using read-once-per-boot USB Flash and only ever had 5 or 6 of the USB Flash devices fail over several years of operation. I've had a much higher percentage of HDD failure in the same time period.

Variance is a bitch.


Agreed, but it isn't as simple for initial setup.

It's much easier than going through all of that stuff and then finding that you forgot about one thing or another.

Just set it up to boot into a RAM Drive. Then nothing ever writes to the device (except for settings modifications which should only happen once in a blue moon).

Yep.  That's what I do with network boots.  Any modifications occur upstream, when I regenerate the network image; no need to write, ever [except to local ramfs].


That is so 1990s :)

A better firmware means you can HTTP after DHCP, so my network boots occur from redundant HTTP servers into RAM.  No shared filesystem, no single point of failure besides the network and power cables.  Those management firmwares and processors in modern server systems are pretty darned fancy these days.

Even with an older firmware, all you would need is DHCP/PXE/TFTP to download a kernel, and an initramfs packed with everything a miner needs.  Or the initramfs could be the first stage of userspace download into RAM.

As an aside, though you must still boot a gPXE image, rather than straight HTTP like I've set up locally, here is a fun project:  http://boot.kernel.org/   Booting an OS over HTTP.

I understand you point, but look. Each USB is what, 5$ for a cheapo one and 10$ for a decent one. If you take 2 cheapo ones, it is 10$, which is 1/4 of  the cost of the 500GB HDD, and 2 decent ones = half the cost.

So the savings are already not very big, 20 or 30$, which is at best 1.167% of the cost of the rig and at worst 0.74%. Also, the downtime that a USB stick failure would cause is obviously big. Also note that for now, the OP is more set on windows 7 then linux. And as I and vladimir said, this is not for the audience the OP is trying to reach, so this discussion is moot

Then he's just better off finding the cheapest (but still well researched for reliability issues) 150 to 500 gb hd. If he can get lower than that just enough to fit in Win 7 it's all good. Problem solved. If HD fails, swap in a new one, re-image the drive, badda booom badda bing, you're done.

Honestly, if Windows is a must, then I'd just get something like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148713).

Nice! Or maybe one that spins at 5400 rpm? One of those green drives. Lower power consumption, but then again a HD doesn't eat up that much anyways.