Title: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: AnonymousBat on February 07, 2012, 05:13:28 PM This seems to be a new currency for the 'occupy' movement. A currency that you can only have for thirty days.
The question one has to ask oneself, how do you save enough for a large purchase? Such as a house or a car? Nevermind the counterfeiting problem. I find it humorous that someone actually spent the time to make such a system. Quote A new complementary currency, the Occcu, falls under the category of a “basic-income currency” which is like a form of social security paid to all individuals. About the only thingOcccu has in common with Bitcoin is that they both can be traded person-to-person online. A promotional flyer for the Occcu describes it as “a fair global currency”. To prevent hoarding the Occcu imposes “demurrage” (negative interest). You’ll want to spend your Occcus right away as anything you don’t spend loses its value — 25% of any unspent balance after thirty days goes back to the community chest. The currency can be spent from a mobile through the web interface. Paper checks are available but simply act as a receipt for the payment recipient to hold until the sender manually enters the information at a later time once connectivity is available. The currency was introduced at the recent World Economic Forum in Davos. The name Occcu comes from OCCupy-CUrrency, a currency that would be desirable to (some/many in) the Occupy movement. Users registered with the Occcu.com website receive a chunk of the currency during sign-up and will receive the basic-incoome allotment monthly. The Occcu website lets registered users view and place ads for trade, make payments and P2P transfers. It is not apparent yet how counterfeiting will be prevented as currently a single individual can create multiple identities and receive the full basic-income for each. There have been calls from some individuals for Bitcoin to be forked or to be superceded with an alternate blockchain to introduce features such as demurrage. Many Bitcoiners are attracted to Bitcoin specifically because its current economic properties. The the software could technically accommodate these changes, buy-in would need to come from these individuals as they hold the power to refuse to switch to software the devalues the currency they hold. However just as Bitcoin was the catalyst for the conversation on various aspects of money the Occcu will likely cause further conversation as well. http://www.bitcoinmoney.com/post/17199295201/introducing-the-occcu Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: FlipPro on February 07, 2012, 05:14:12 PM Why not use Bitcoin?
Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: AnonymousBat on February 07, 2012, 05:15:48 PM Why not use Bitcoin? Because they don't like the fact that people save their money. Remember, it's all about SPENDSPENDSPEND! Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 07, 2012, 05:21:10 PM Some dweebs are mining OCCU as alt cryptocurrency on their CPUs and issuing it (the OCCU, I mean) to OWS women they like.
Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: ultima on February 07, 2012, 05:22:26 PM So, hyperinflationary currency is what occupiers want?
This is just crazy. We need some sanity in this world not more spending and buying stuff we don't need. And what's with the monthly basic-income? I don't have to do anything to get that currency? What's the value of it then if you can get it for free? This is a very strange idea to say the least. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: ultima on February 07, 2012, 05:25:10 PM OK I opened an account and received 20 occcus. Anyone want to trade bitcoins for them?
Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: AnonymousBat on February 07, 2012, 05:30:25 PM Why not use Bitcoin? Because they don't like the fact that people save their money. Remember, it's all about SPENDSPENDSPEND! You know there were some pretty hot naked Occupy chicks at Davos running around topless. Excuse me while I make a bunch of accounts. Come to think of it, can't you get around the spending problem by simply sending coins to yourself on another account? Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: realnowhereman on February 07, 2012, 05:32:54 PM Seems strangely quiet on who gets to issue this new currency.
As if I can't guess. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: AnonymousBat on February 07, 2012, 05:35:25 PM Seems strangely quiet on who gets to issue this new currency. As if I can't guess. I was wondering why there wasn't already a thread on it. Perhaps everyone that saw it died laughing. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 07, 2012, 05:41:57 PM Seems strangely quiet on who gets to issue this new currency. As if I can't guess. I was wondering why there wasn't already a thread on it. Perhaps everyone that saw it died laughing. [edit] Hell, just move the decimal place to bitcents and call them Occucoins that have a real online market and network. Point it to the bitcoin faucet to get a free load. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Vod on February 07, 2012, 06:29:06 PM What's to prevent a person from making two accounts and spending the coins by transferring them between accounts every four weeks?
Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: AnonymousBat on February 07, 2012, 06:35:51 PM What's to prevent a person from making two accounts and spending the coins by transferring them between accounts every four weeks? Seems like absolutely nothing. :) Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: the joint on February 07, 2012, 06:50:24 PM "Password cannot be greater than 12 characters"
Yikes... Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 07, 2012, 06:58:11 PM So, hyperinflationary currency is what occupiers want? This is just crazy. We need some sanity in this world not more spending and buying stuff we don't need. And what's with the monthly basic-income? I don't have to do anything to get that currency? What's the value of it then if you can get it for free? This is a very strange idea to say the least. That is the way occupiers think (and no I am not joking). They believe the state owes them simply for existing. If the state doesn't have enough money to give everyone a monthly income, education, healthcare, and retirement well they can just confiscate more wealth from the suckers who actually work. "Money for nothing and your chicks for free" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXDjiKVs2U Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: AnonymousBat on February 07, 2012, 07:02:48 PM So, hyperinflationary currency is what occupiers want? This is just crazy. We need some sanity in this world not more spending and buying stuff we don't need. And what's with the monthly basic-income? I don't have to do anything to get that currency? What's the value of it then if you can get it for free? This is a very strange idea to say the least. That is the way occupiers think (and no I am not joking). They believe the state owes them simply for existing. If the state doesn't have enough money to give everyone a monthly income, education, healthcare, and retirement well they can just confiscate more wealth from the suckers who actually work. "Money for nothing and your chicks for free" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXDjiKVs2U Or just print more money! Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: conspirosphere.tk on February 07, 2012, 08:19:02 PM This is a very strange idea to say the least. It happens frequently to spoiled brats http://thepeoplescube.com/images/American_Left_160.jpg Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 07, 2012, 10:24:16 PM So, hyperinflationary currency is what occupiers want? This is just crazy. We need some sanity in this world not more spending and buying stuff we don't need. And what's with the monthly basic-income? I don't have to do anything to get that currency? What's the value of it then if you can get it for free? This is a very strange idea to say the least. That is the way occupiers think (and no I am not joking). They believe the state owes them simply for existing. If the state doesn't have enough money to give everyone a monthly income, education, healthcare, and retirement well they can just confiscate more wealth from the suckers who actually work. "Money for nothing and your chicks for free" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXDjiKVs2U Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 07, 2012, 10:39:19 PM That also goes for bankers that suck at business but want to be bailed out anyway. So the occupiers are just as bad the banksters they just aren't as good at getting free money. BTW it is possible to think both the bankster and the occupiers suck! Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 07, 2012, 10:46:31 PM That also goes for bankers that suck at business but want to be bailed out anyway. So the occupiers are just as bad the banksters they just aren't as good at getting free money. BTW it is possible to think both the bankster and the occupiers suck! Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Explodicle on February 07, 2012, 11:06:16 PM Q: Why would anyone want to use this over Bitcoin?
A: To signal group affiliation with Occupy. Q: (Months later) Why did the Occcu fail? A: "Because the free market conspired against it!" <-- mark my words Quote About the only thingOcccu has in common with Bitcoin is that they both can be traded person-to-person online. Really? I couldn't find a download link for the P2P client anywhere. I even registered and "received" 20 Occcu that I can only see on the Occcu website and have no way to withdraw it.Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Littleshop on February 08, 2012, 04:24:22 AM Occcu is just plain silly. If for some reason people started to use it, they would have a huge problem with people registering multiple (hundreds??) of accounts for free money. It would not be rare so it would become worthless (just like it is now).
Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cunicula on February 08, 2012, 04:34:03 AM That is the way occupiers think (and no I am not joking). They believe the state owes them simply for existing. If the state doesn't have enough money to give everyone a monthly income, education, healthcare, and retirement well they can just confiscate more wealth from the suckers who actually work. "Money for nothing and your chicks for free" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWXDjiKVs2U "Do they owe us a living? Course they do, Course they do, Course they fucking do" Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Andrew Bitcoiner on February 08, 2012, 04:53:15 AM This is a very strange idea to say the least. It happens frequently to spoiled brats http://thepeoplescube.com/images/American_Left_160.jpg The correct date would be 1861 8) Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: kjlimo on February 08, 2012, 05:32:18 AM What's to prevent a person from making two accounts and spending the coins by transferring them between accounts every four weeks? Seems like absolutely nothing. :) lol.. what the heck's the point???? Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: robocop on February 08, 2012, 09:40:54 AM I think that a lot of people don´t understand the principle because they understand money as a storage of value to save money for a new car or other big things but this thinking is in my optionion wrong and its the result of blowing up money.
For example what will happen, when 70% of Bitcoin will hold by 5%? It will happen the same as with fiat money the amount of Bitcoin will increase. Sure not directly but indirectly because the value of 21mio. Bitcoins will increase a lot of and the amount of Bitcoins increase because the comma will going to the right side because it is unpracticable to pay 0.00001 Bitcoin. So the amount of Bitcoin will increase step by step from 21 to 210mio. to 2100mio. and more. Bitcoin can´t be the last answer of our problems of hording money. OCCCU is a new type of money which want to hold the amount of money less and depending on the number of guys because it is better to give the money to the next and "use" it than hold money and make it unreceivable unuseful for other guys and this is one big problem of the world. But what can I do when I want saving money for a new car? The answer is NOT the OCCCU the answer is Bitcoin, gold, silver, stocks and ... And this is normally because the OCCCU is not a storage. I see the OCCCU as basic income to pay the lot of small things which will need every day for example food, rent, clothes, cinema, concerts and more. I see OCCCU as a chance and a experiment to define money new. And for correction. You receive every month 100 OCCCU, after 30 days 25 percent will going back to community. So you have in max. 400 OCCCU after 24 month for nothing ;-) 20 1 Mon. 115 2 Mon. 186 3 Mon. 240 4 Mon. 280 5 Mon. 310 6 Mon. 332 7 Mon. 349 8 Mon. 362 9 Mon. 371 10 Mon. 379 11 Mon. 384 12 Mon. 388 13 Mon. 391 14 Mon. 393 15 Mon. 395 16 Mon. 396 17 Mon. 397 18 Mon. 398 19 Mon. 398 20 Mon. 399 21 Mon. 399 22 Mon. 399 23 Mon. 399 24 Mon. 400 Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: realnowhereman on February 08, 2012, 09:45:17 AM Occcu is just plain silly. If for some reason people started to use it, they would have a huge problem with people registering multiple (hundreds??) of accounts for free money. It would not be rare so it would become worthless (just like it is now). The reason community-based economic systems always end in failure is that they rely on everyone being decent and honourable. Capitalism does not require that. Ronald Reagan said "socialism will only work in two places: heaven where they don't need it; and hell where they already have it". Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: robocop on February 08, 2012, 01:15:59 PM Quote The reason community-based economic systems always end in failure is that they rely on everyone being decent and honourable. I don´t think so because "being decent and honourable" is only a question of transparency. If the system is transparent then it is impossible to cheat. And by the way the current system is community based too but the community is not the mass but the top 5% ;-) Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: realnowhereman on February 08, 2012, 01:21:07 PM Quote The reason community-based economic systems always end in failure is that they rely on everyone being decent and honourable. I don´t think so because "being decent and honourable" is only a question of transparency. If the system is transparent then it is impossible to cheat. Agreed. Bitcoin has solved that problem, which is nice. I shouldn't have called it "community based"; it's not accurate enough. I meant "economic systems that work to keep everyone identically wealthy". The reason they fail is exactly as you say: lack of transparency. Unfortunately it's inherent. There are always going to be people who "run" things. They will always claim they are doing it "for the good of the people". While it's possible to benefit from cheating... someone will cheat. The guy at the top can always cheat. That's essentially why I was sarcastically asking "who gets to issue it?". Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 08, 2012, 01:23:49 PM I see the OCCCU as basic income to pay the lot of small things which will need every day for example food, rent, clothes, cinema, concerts and more. What is a business owner supposed to do with OCCCU? Trade it for gold? Then what will the gold dealer do with it?Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 08, 2012, 01:36:30 PM I meant "economic systems that work to keep everyone identically wealthy". Even if there is no cheating, no corruption, no flawed human behavior I would argue that the above goal is beyond stupid. I work hard, someone else sits around making hippie songs nobody gives a shit about. We both should be compensated equally. Well if that is the case, fuck the 50 hour work week, fuck the continual skill development on my part, fuck the stress of managing an enterprise database. I will write hippie songs nobody gives a shit about (and likely do a worse job than the guy in the comparison). Multiply that by billions and global GDP declines on a massive scale. People shouldn't be compensated equally because talents, skills, productive capacity vary. Capitalism is horribly flawed but it is the best system to match the needs of the population with the talents/assets/capital of the population. It works because it doesn't require you to look out for the common good, nor does it expect you to. Companies engage in brutal "combat" and to emerge victorious requires a better product, or better marketing (which is another product), or better prices (= production efficiency). The entire system is made stronger because talents, resources, and capital flow to where they have the most benefit. Sure division of that "pie" is uneven but Capitalism makes the pie bigger. The "poor" today have a far better quality of life than say as a poor serf in the Middle Ages. Their slice of the pie is smaller than say Donald Trump but the pie is magnitudes larger. TL/DR version: You build a system (even perfect) where the "slices" are even and you have broken the linking of work/assets/capital and reward. There is no reason to be better because even if you are your slice isn't going to get any bigger. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 08, 2012, 01:45:33 PM I work hard, someone else sits around making hippie songs nobody gives a shit about. We both should be compensated equally. Well if that is the case, fuck the 50 hour work week, fuck the continual skill development on my part, fuck the stress of managing an enterprise database. I will write hippie songs nobody gives a shit about (and likely do a worse job than the guy in the comparison). Most great inventors don't give a damn about money. They tend to be easily exploited by Capitalist hippies that sit around the pool collecting dividends. The real hard work of Capitalism is the lawyers that sue startups over patent infringement.Sure, some innovation is done by greedy inventors, but original ideas tend to come from people not interested in money itself. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 08, 2012, 02:39:10 PM Most great inventors don't give a damn about money. They tend to be easily exploited by Capitalist hippies that sit around the pool collecting dividends. The real hard work of Capitalism is the lawyers that sue startups over patent infringement. Sure, some innovation is done by greedy inventors, but original ideas tend to come from people not interested in money itself. For the sake of argument I will say your right (although I disagree). Without capital most ideas go nowhere. How does one acquire capital ... by working harder (or having a ancestor who worked harder). Yes even people who acquire wealth through fraudulent or dubious means had to work at it. A system where acquisition of wealth is impossible because everyone's share of the pie is equal means no rich greedy investors to "exploit" inventors by bring products to market. Even when inventor is "exploited" by Capitalists the system is made stronger. Quality of life for the aggregate population improves due to access to new and improved products & services. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: realnowhereman on February 08, 2012, 02:40:48 PM You build a system (even perfect) where the "slices" are even and you have broken the linking of work/assets/capital and reward. There is no reason to be better because even if you are your slice isn't going to get any bigger. I agree of course; socialism is simply persuading poor people that the only reason they aren't rich is because of all the rich people. However; that's not the point. The point is that if there were no cheating socialism would operate. It is sustainable. Why? Because it would end as exactly the same as a free market. Now: people of different talents and skill are paid differently for the same number of hours work. Inevitable end point of socialism: people of different talents and skills will work different numbers of hours for the same pay. It's obvious why socialism would result in lower GDP, the productive would put less effort in. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: ultima on February 08, 2012, 02:51:45 PM You can't say: "I need some money, so I will produce a briliant idea now." Revolutionary ideas just happen. But most inventions need a lot of work and research done. For instance, where would you find thousands of people to do some boring laboratory work to invent a new drug? Where would you even find people to produce laboratory equipment, to start research in the first place. And where would you find people to dig raw materials from the ground to use them to make the equipment?
We can't just sit around and wait for a great mastermind to be born every 100 years to invent a few things. We have to force as much people as possible to be productive and work on the things that benefit others. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 08, 2012, 03:00:47 PM Most great inventors don't give a damn about money. They tend to be easily exploited by Capitalist hippies that sit around the pool collecting dividends. The real hard work of Capitalism is the lawyers that sue startups over patent infringement. Sure, some innovation is done by greedy inventors, but original ideas tend to come from people not interested in money itself. For the sake of argument I will say your right (although I disagree). Without capital most ideas go nowhere. How does one acquire capital ... by working harder (or having a ancestor who worked harder). Yes even people who acquire wealth through fraudulent or dubious means had to work at it. A system where acquisition of wealth is impossible because everyone's share of the pie is equal means no rich greedy investors to "exploit" inventors by bring products to market. Even when inventor is "exploited" by Capitalists the system is made stronger. Quality of life for the aggregate population improves due to access to new and improved products & services. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 08, 2012, 03:08:52 PM Democracies aggregate capital through taxation and choose progressive commons based on the best information available to improve the (theoretical) quality of life for the many. I'll defer to Maslow's hierarchy of needs to point out the usefulness of a baseline of equality. Besides, the system is broken and there are few ethical occupations where one can aggregate any personal wealth anymore. It follows then that individuals that do manage to acquire capital are not ethical and should not be trusted to make decisions for the many. So unaccountable people who didn't earn money will via bureaucratic processes more efficiently aggregate capital and match industrial needs with available resources. Maybe with a utopian artificial intelligence but not with humans. Modern states destroy wealth via inefficiency. The solution isn't giving the state more power. I have managed to acquire wealth so by your definition I am unethical. Kinda a broad brush you are painting with. Still I am glad you posted it. You statements show you are a statist. Your belief is the state can be the answer to all problems. Even when the state itself is the source of the problem, the "solution" among statists isn't freedom but instead building an even more powerful, infringing, wealth destroying state. Sad ... but then again i am unethical so my disdain of your solutions is to be expected right? Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 08, 2012, 03:14:53 PM Democracies aggregate capital through taxation and choose progressive commons based on the best information available to improve the (theoretical) quality of life for the many. I'll defer to Maslow's hierarchy of needs to point out the usefulness of a baseline of equality. Besides, the system is broken and there are few ethical occupations where one can aggregate any personal wealth anymore. It follows then that individuals that do manage to acquire capital are not ethical and should not be trusted to make decisions for the many. So people who didn't earn money via buerocratic processes will more efficiently aggregate capital and match industrial needs with available resources. Maybe with a utopian artificial intelligence but not with humans. I have managed to acquire wealth so by your definition I am unethical. Kinda a broad brush you are painting with. Still I am glad you posted it. You are a statist. You belief the state can be the answer to all problems. Even when the state creates problems by disrupting free markets the solution isn't freedom but instead even more power to the state. With people like you that thinking will never be broken. It will always be "well if we give the state more power, more money, more resources, and more of our freedom it will work". When it doesn't work the "solution" it give a little bit more. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 08, 2012, 04:24:18 PM Neither do "the people" require democracy to be free. Please give an example of such a people.Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 08, 2012, 04:35:55 PM Neither do "the people" require democracy to be free. Please give an example of such a people.Anyone at any time. Wrap your head around that yourself. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Explodicle on February 08, 2012, 05:50:38 PM Neither do "the people" require democracy to be free. Please give an example of such a people."None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 08, 2012, 05:53:29 PM Neither do "the people" require democracy to be free. Please give an example of such a people."None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe - Janis Joplin Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: AnonymousBat on February 08, 2012, 06:39:34 PM Still I am glad you posted it. You statements show you are a statist. Your belief is the state can be the answer to all problems. Even when the state itself is the source of the problem, the "solution" among statists isn't freedom but instead building an even more powerful, infringing, wealth destroying state. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1xmGK8PEJw :D Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: SAC on February 08, 2012, 06:55:21 PM Neither do "the people" require democracy to be free. Please give an example of such a people."None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe - Janis Joplin "Free your mind ... and your ass will follow." -Funkadelic Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: drakahn on February 08, 2012, 07:46:27 PM "Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err."
- Mahatma Gandhi ----- I find it funny when people link making money to freedom, money is the slave whip that keeps you all in line. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: westkybitcoins on February 08, 2012, 08:07:42 PM Most great inventors don't give a damn about money. They tend to be easily exploited by Capitalist hippies that sit around the pool collecting dividends. The real hard work of Capitalism is the lawyers that sue startups over patent infringement. Sure, some innovation is done by greedy inventors, but original ideas tend to come from people not interested in money itself. For the sake of argument I will say your right (although I disagree). Without capital most ideas go nowhere. How does one acquire capital ... by working harder (or having a ancestor who worked harder). Yes even people who acquire wealth through fraudulent or dubious means had to work at it. A system where acquisition of wealth is impossible because everyone's share of the pie is equal means no rich greedy investors to "exploit" inventors by bring products to market. Even when inventor is "exploited" by Capitalists the system is made stronger. Quality of life for the aggregate population improves due to access to new and improved products & services. That seems like a pretty disturbing collective view. Even if it were true that most modern "rich people" (however you choose to define that) become wealthy through unethical means, it doesn't mean they all did. What about the guy who invented something great and had people throw money at him for it? What about someone who inherited wealth that was generated 150 years ago by some ancestor he barely knows about? What about me, should the value of my bitcoin holdings skyrocket? To try to lump the innocent in with the guilty isn't going to achieve anything good. That said, I still agree, in that NO ONE should be trusted to make decisions "for the many." Everyone should make their own decisions, and reap the rewards or suffer the consequences accordingly. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: RaggedMonk on February 08, 2012, 08:51:57 PM Ronald Reagan said "socialism will only work in two places: heaven where they don't need it; and hell where they already have it". Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: DeathAndTaxes on February 08, 2012, 08:54:03 PM Ronald Reagan said "socialism will only work in two places: heaven where they don't need it; and hell where they already have it". Fascist dictatorship and socialism aren't mutually exclusive. One is a system of governance and the other an economic model. If you want to get meta then pain is the currency of hell and it will be shared equally. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: RaggedMonk on February 08, 2012, 08:58:32 PM Fascist dictatorship and socialism aren't mutually exclusive. One is a system of governance and the other an economic model. If you want to get meta then pain is the currency of hell and it will be shared equally. Thanks Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: the joint on February 08, 2012, 09:05:25 PM Neither do "the people" require democracy to be free. Please give an example of such a people."None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe "A free being can simultaneously place its own constraints. Freedom of ignorance is such a constraint." - Me Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: wachtwoord on February 08, 2012, 09:15:49 PM I meant "economic systems that work to keep everyone identically wealthy". Even if there is no cheating, no corruption, no flawed human behavior I would argue that the above goal is beyond stupid. I work hard, someone else sits around making hippie songs nobody gives a shit about. We both should be compensated equally. Well if that is the case, fuck the 50 hour work week, fuck the continual skill development on my part, fuck the stress of managing an enterprise database. I will write hippie songs nobody gives a shit about (and likely do a worse job than the guy in the comparison). Multiply that by billions and global GDP declines on a massive scale. People shouldn't be compensated equally because talents, skills, productive capacity vary. Capitalism is horribly flawed but it is the best system to match the needs of the population with the talents/assets/capital of the population. It works because it doesn't require you to look out for the common good, nor does it expect you to. Companies engage in brutal "combat" and to emerge victorious requires a better product, or better marketing (which is another product), or better prices (= production efficiency). The entire system is made stronger because talents, resources, and capital flow to where they have the most benefit. Sure division of that "pie" is uneven but Capitalism makes the pie bigger. The "poor" today have a far better quality of life than say as a poor serf in the Middle Ages. Their slice of the pie is smaller than say Donald Trump but the pie is magnitudes larger. TL/DR version: You build a system (even perfect) where the "slices" are even and you have broken the linking of work/assets/capital and reward. There is no reason to be better because even if you are your slice isn't going to get any bigger. Thank you. You present me with hope for this world. When the day comes that a piece of land is founded where the power of the government is minimal (where the long term goal is none), and the free market is what controls everything, I will move there. I am from Europe so let me end with a quote: "In the end we will all pay for socialism gone wild" User @ Motley Fool about the European debt problems Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: paraipan on February 08, 2012, 09:21:06 PM lol this thread is epic, researching a bit on the issue before commenting helps allot
One day a guy decides he would create this "decentralized" currency, that sympathizes with Occupy movements, and call it "occcu". Then he calls up some friends and they like the idea so they use an open source platform, Cyclos (http://project.cyclos.org/), to build it because it's easier and host it on a central server too. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realize it doesn't have nothing to do with bitcoin at all. Just take a brief look at "Products & Services" on their site and you can easily find who could be behind it by cross-ref some data. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: SgtSpike on February 08, 2012, 09:40:32 PM Most great inventors don't give a damn about money. They tend to be easily exploited by Capitalist hippies that sit around the pool collecting dividends. The real hard work of Capitalism is the lawyers that sue startups over patent infringement. Sure, some innovation is done by greedy inventors, but original ideas tend to come from people not interested in money itself. For the sake of argument I will say your right (although I disagree). Without capital most ideas go nowhere. How does one acquire capital ... by working harder (or having a ancestor who worked harder). Yes even people who acquire wealth through fraudulent or dubious means had to work at it. A system where acquisition of wealth is impossible because everyone's share of the pie is equal means no rich greedy investors to "exploit" inventors by bring products to market. Even when inventor is "exploited" by Capitalists the system is made stronger. Quality of life for the aggregate population improves due to access to new and improved products & services. Fact is, all you need is food, clothing and shelter. You don't need a car. You don't need a 800 sq ft house (when 200 will do just fine). You don't need children. You don't need a cell phone. You don't need cable, television, or internet. Live in Detroit, where housing is incredibly cheap. Sell trinkets on the internet, or get a minimum wage job. You could get by on $300/month for all your living expenses. The rest is money in your pocket, where you begin building wealth. Building wealth has nothing to do with how much you make, and everything to do with how you manage the money you have. If you believe you cannot build wealth with just about any ethical occupation, then you're not living your life in a way that facilitates building wealth. In other words, it is YOUR fault you can't build wealth with those ethical occupations. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: wachtwoord on February 08, 2012, 11:42:44 PM Good blog on this: http://earlyretirementextreme.com/
Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on February 09, 2012, 04:59:24 AM Most great inventors don't give a damn about money. They tend to be easily exploited by Capitalist hippies that sit around the pool collecting dividends. The real hard work of Capitalism is the lawyers that sue startups over patent infringement. Sure, some innovation is done by greedy inventors, but original ideas tend to come from people not interested in money itself. For the sake of argument I will say your right (although I disagree). Without capital most ideas go nowhere. How does one acquire capital ... by working harder (or having a ancestor who worked harder). Yes even people who acquire wealth through fraudulent or dubious means had to work at it. A system where acquisition of wealth is impossible because everyone's share of the pie is equal means no rich greedy investors to "exploit" inventors by bring products to market. Even when inventor is "exploited" by Capitalists the system is made stronger. Quality of life for the aggregate population improves due to access to new and improved products & services. Fact is, all you need is food, clothing and shelter. You don't need a car. You don't need a 800 sq ft house (when 200 will do just fine). You don't need children. You don't need a cell phone. You don't need cable, television, or internet. Live in Detroit, where housing is incredibly cheap. Sell trinkets on the internet, or get a minimum wage job. You could get by on $300/month for all your living expenses. The rest is money in your pocket, where you begin building wealth. Building wealth has nothing to do with how much you make, and everything to do with how you manage the money you have. If you believe you cannot build wealth with just about any ethical occupation, then you're not living your life in a way that facilitates building wealth. In other words, it is YOUR fault you can't build wealth with those ethical occupations. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: SgtSpike on February 09, 2012, 06:17:43 AM Most great inventors don't give a damn about money. They tend to be easily exploited by Capitalist hippies that sit around the pool collecting dividends. The real hard work of Capitalism is the lawyers that sue startups over patent infringement. Sure, some innovation is done by greedy inventors, but original ideas tend to come from people not interested in money itself. For the sake of argument I will say your right (although I disagree). Without capital most ideas go nowhere. How does one acquire capital ... by working harder (or having a ancestor who worked harder). Yes even people who acquire wealth through fraudulent or dubious means had to work at it. A system where acquisition of wealth is impossible because everyone's share of the pie is equal means no rich greedy investors to "exploit" inventors by bring products to market. Even when inventor is "exploited" by Capitalists the system is made stronger. Quality of life for the aggregate population improves due to access to new and improved products & services. Fact is, all you need is food, clothing and shelter. You don't need a car. You don't need a 800 sq ft house (when 200 will do just fine). You don't need children. You don't need a cell phone. You don't need cable, television, or internet. Live in Detroit, where housing is incredibly cheap. Sell trinkets on the internet, or get a minimum wage job. You could get by on $300/month for all your living expenses. The rest is money in your pocket, where you begin building wealth. Building wealth has nothing to do with how much you make, and everything to do with how you manage the money you have. If you believe you cannot build wealth with just about any ethical occupation, then you're not living your life in a way that facilitates building wealth. In other words, it is YOUR fault you can't build wealth with those ethical occupations. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: robocop on February 09, 2012, 09:40:32 AM I mean
The positive sides of OCCCU is that a lot of money can´t hoarded. Negative is that the OCCCU isn´t transparent like Bitcoin so I can´t see the transactions or amount of OCCCUs. But what would happen if the advantages of Bitcoin would combined with the advantages of OCCCU ? If it would not a great idea to have a basic-income coin - system? Sure this system can´t be so anonym like Bitcoin because it needs a registration for every user. This registration should be transparent because this registration system need the verification of the community else accounts would be cheated. Then every new user account would generate new coins and every block which will be mined generate coins too. The advantage is that the amount of coins would increase with the number of users. I think this type of coin could be an alternative to fiatmoney and i could imagine that a lot of user would use this coin because he could get coins for nothing (basic income). Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Explodicle on February 09, 2012, 02:08:45 PM Don't get me wrong, I like Occupy and basic incomes, but the problems inherent to this concept are more practical than ideological. For any basic income, SOMEONE has to maintain a list of recipients. You need to verify that each person only has one account. You need to update the records swiftly when an identity gets stolen. Then, we have to trust that your organization won't be corrupted by power. Every single person you employ to handle all this is paid for by a regressive "inflation/demurrage tax".
We (the left in general) need to be supporting Bitcoin because it already works well and is still undergoing major upgrades. It is resistant to corruption unlike the Fed and any centralized currency. If your problem is hoarding and a deflationary money supply, EnCoin can use your help. If you want a basic income, it has to come from your government - consumers will not opt in to paying for it. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: anu on February 09, 2012, 02:26:30 PM But what would happen if the advantages of Bitcoin would combined with the advantages of OCCCU ? the Bitcoin community and the Occcu community (if there really is one) have different ideas with constitutes an advantage. So some of those advantages are mutually exclusive. The Bitcoin community values that your Bitcoins stay your Bitcoins until you chose to spend them. The Occcu community values the fact that Occcu evaporates quickly, forcing you to get rid of it as fast as possible. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: realnowhereman on February 09, 2012, 02:32:39 PM "Basic Income" is a reasonable idea. Sometimes called citizen's income or citizen's dividend. It goes very nicely with land value tax.
However; implementing it is a function of the state not of the currency. As to "not hoarding". That's just stupid. There's nothing wrong with "hoarding"; it is simply deferred consumption. e.g. I would like to have a car next year instead of a bicycle this year. Or, I'd like two hospitals next year instead of one pedestrian crossing this year. What's wrong with letting people choose when they spend? The 'occu' wouldn't stimulate the economy, it would simply move spending from the future to the now as people tried to avoid the hoarding-tax. That would result in more purchases of low value items and fewer of high value items (since high value items are what people save for). I assume that they are all "bring back t' days of t' factories" types who are proposing these anti-capital ideas. Strangely, it is factory production that would likely suffer most (high value items are made in factories). Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: anu on February 09, 2012, 03:12:55 PM "Basic Income" is a reasonable idea. Sometimes called citizen's income or citizen's dividend. It goes very nicely with land value tax. However; implementing it is a function of the state not of the currency. Basic income as a dividend requires that the state generates a surplus. Some do, such as Norway. Just imagine how much tax revenue is required to finance this: If 300 Million Americans get $500 each (not really a sufficient income), $1.8 Trillion would be required per year. Financing this with a tax on land would devaluate the land to the point that most morgage loans get canceled because the backing is no longer there. The result would be a default of the house owners and a subprime crisis of unprecedented proportions. Oh, wait - we can tax the farmers. They own a lot more land. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Explodicle on February 09, 2012, 04:22:40 PM "Basic Income" is a reasonable idea. Sometimes called citizen's income or citizen's dividend. It goes very nicely with land value tax. However; implementing it is a function of the state not of the currency. Basic income as a dividend requires that the state generates a surplus. Some do, such as Norway. Just imagine how much tax revenue is required to finance this: If 300 Million Americans get $500 each (not really a sufficient income), $1.8 Trillion would be required per year. Financing this with a tax on land would devaluate the land to the point that most morgage loans get canceled because the backing is no longer there. The result would be a default of the house owners and a subprime crisis of unprecedented proportions. Oh, wait - we can tax the farmers. They own a lot more land. Or we could not do it that way, because you're not the only one who sees those problems coming. The Henry George Foundation of America is possibly the biggest supporter of land taxes, and even they advocate a very slow and gradual transition to avoid disruptions, like massive defaulting. In the long run though, the economy would be more stable if normal people didn't take out massive loans for expensive volitile assets. Land bubbles always eventually burst, and neo-serfdom isn't much fun either. Also, farmers would pay a lower amount per acre due to their location. Most of the revenue would come from city land. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: robocop on February 09, 2012, 05:17:13 PM Don't get me wrong, I like Occupy and basic incomes, but the problems inherent to this concept are more practical than ideological. For any basic income, SOMEONE has to maintain a list of recipients. You need to verify that each person only has one account. You need to update the records swiftly when an identity gets stolen. Then, we have to trust that your organization won't be corrupted by power. Every single person you employ to handle all this is paid for by a regressive "inflation/demurrage tax". Yes you´re right. I think the basic income should come from the goverment. If the government would controlled not by less politics but from all the people who live there then the basic income like the occcu-principle of 25% tax / loss per month then i could imagine that it could make sense.We (the left in general) need to be supporting Bitcoin because it already works well and is still undergoing major upgrades. It is resistant to corruption unlike the Fed and any centralized currency. If your problem is hoarding and a deflationary money supply, EnCoin can use your help. If you want a basic income, it has to come from your government - consumers will not opt in to paying for it. And what would happen if the government would use Bitcoin for this? For example every people can register one basic-income account and every transaction from this account could followed and must paid with 25% of taxes. If the people would sent Bitcoins from the basic-income address/account then a much higher tax like 50% would payed. So it would be more sense to exchange Bitcoins in other Values. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: realnowhereman on February 09, 2012, 05:24:36 PM "Basic Income" is a reasonable idea. Sometimes called citizen's income or citizen's dividend. It goes very nicely with land value tax. Basic income as a dividend requires that the state generates a surplus. Some do, such as Norway. Just imagine how much tax revenue is required to finance this: If 300 Million Americans get $500 each (not really a sufficient income), $1.8 Trillion would be required per year. Financing this with a tax on land would devaluate the land to the point that most morgage loans get canceled because the backing is no longer there. The result would be a default of the house owners and a subprime crisis of unprecedented proportions. Oh, wait - we can tax the farmers. They own a lot more land. I don't really want to get into a land value tax debate; but almost universally its proponents want to replace existing taxation (as Explodicle says, gradually is better) with land value tax not augment. Also; typical calculations don't actually weigh heavily on farmers. You see it would be more accurate to call LVT a location value tax and farmland is low value. For example, in the UK, you can buy farmland at about £6,000 an acre. The centre of London would be more like £100 million an acre. Farmers would not be bearing the brunt. Citizen's income is also generally proposed to be a replacement for other benefits and would be fiscally neutral. Depending on how many you replace (as Explodicle says, gradually would be better) sets the amount. A prime one is your tax free allowance being an easy universal benefit to spot. Job seekers allowance would go; CI making it so that working always paid, as there would be no means testing or tailing off -- you get CI whether you work or not. Child benefit could probably go, since they would be entitled to CI by virtue of existing. And so on... Anyway -- there is a lot you could argue about CI, but "needs a surplus" is not one of them. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: robocop on February 09, 2012, 09:23:47 PM Quote As to "not hoarding". That's just stupid. There's nothing wrong with "hoarding"; it is simply deferred consumption. e.g. I would like to have a car next year instead of a bicycle this year. Or, I'd like two hospitals next year instead of one pedestrian crossing this year. What's wrong with letting people choose when they spend? I don't think so because the result we can see now with the fiat money system.consumption which is deferred don't need parking money because money must go through a lot of hands in less time. And the next problem is that a lot of hoarding money will never see the money cycle again because the holder have so much money that they can't or want not spend it. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: realnowhereman on February 13, 2012, 09:41:49 AM And the next problem is that a lot of hoarding money will never see the money cycle again because the holder have so much money that they can't or want not spend it. From the point of view of the rest of the economy, never-ever spent money is no different from money that never existed. In which case, the money in the economy increases in value to compensate. The hoarded money does absolutely no harm. However, if hoarded money is hoarded anywhere other than under the mattress, then it is stored somewhere that will allow it to be loaned out. In which case it is being used to do work in the economy. Either way, hoarding money is not a problem. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: anu on February 13, 2012, 10:30:12 AM Anyway -- there is a lot you could argue about CI, but "needs a surplus" is not one of them. Sure it is. You can create part of that surplus by eliminating all or much of the social benefits of today, including it's bureaucracy, but that is insufficient. Any basic income that deserves the name must allow people to actually survive on it. It must be paid from revenues (taxes, oil revenue....) it cannot be paid with debts. It's a real bad dilemma. Increased productivity and more AI may well toss us into poorhouses without basic income (http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm (http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm)), but basic income reduces competitiveness. In the end, the future may really not need us. Only way out I see is to keep the economy growing until we're ready. Spacesteading and Seasteading may do the trick. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Explodicle on February 13, 2012, 09:59:35 PM Anyway -- there is a lot you could argue about CI, but "needs a surplus" is not one of them. Sure it is. You can create part of that surplus by eliminating all or much of the social benefits of today, including it's bureaucracy, but that is insufficient. Any basic income that deserves the name must allow people to actually survive on it. It must be paid from revenues (taxes, oil revenue....) it cannot be paid with debts. It's a real bad dilemma. Increased productivity and more AI may well toss us into poorhouses without basic income (http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm (http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm)), but basic income reduces competitiveness. In the end, the future may really not need us. Only way out I see is to keep the economy growing until we're ready. Spacesteading and Seasteading may do the trick. First off, thanks for the interesting story - I got halfway through the first chapter before I realized it was fiction. :P Back on topic - a basic income only reduces human labor by about five percent, which IMHO doesn't outweigh the benefit of a more just society, especially as robot labor grows and this penalty decreases. Maybe even when we have everything we need, greed continues to motivate the selfish. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: SgtSpike on February 13, 2012, 10:01:04 PM Anyway -- there is a lot you could argue about CI, but "needs a surplus" is not one of them. Sure it is. You can create part of that surplus by eliminating all or much of the social benefits of today, including it's bureaucracy, but that is insufficient. Any basic income that deserves the name must allow people to actually survive on it. It must be paid from revenues (taxes, oil revenue....) it cannot be paid with debts. It's a real bad dilemma. Increased productivity and more AI may well toss us into poorhouses without basic income (http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm (http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm)), but basic income reduces competitiveness. In the end, the future may really not need us. Only way out I see is to keep the economy growing until we're ready. Spacesteading and Seasteading may do the trick. First off, thanks for the interesting story - I got halfway through the first chapter before I realized it was fiction. :P Back on topic - a basic income only reduces human labor by about five percent, which IMHO doesn't outweigh the benefit of a more just society, especially as robot labor grows and this penalty decreases. Maybe even when we have everything we need, greed continues to motivate the selfish. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Explodicle on February 13, 2012, 10:03:19 PM Yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_income_guarantee#Criticisms Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: BrightAnarchist on February 13, 2012, 10:03:25 PM Quote A promotional flyer for the Occcu describes it as “a fair global currency”. To prevent hoarding the Occcu imposes “demurrage” (negative interest). You’ll want to spend your Occcus right away as anything you don’t spend loses its value — 25% of any unspent balance after thirty days goes back to the community chest. People would try to get around the auto-destruction rule by “trading” nothing among themselves to make it look like they didn’t hoard. It’s ridiculous. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: MCWey8 on February 14, 2012, 01:20:13 AM signed up, still have 0 Occcus days later
Guess Occupy movement doesn't want me to have a Mincome. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Explodicle on February 14, 2012, 01:53:58 AM signed up, still have 0 Occcus days later That's weird, I got my 20 immediately upon joining. Guess Occupy movement doesn't want me to have a Mincome. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: the joint on February 14, 2012, 11:21:45 PM Hilarious that 2 of the 4 product listings on the occcu website are from people offering to buy Bitcoins for occcus ;D
One guy is offering 5 occus per BTC, the other is offering 1 occcu per BTC lol Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Bitcoin Oz on February 15, 2012, 07:58:39 AM It would be interesting if your forum posts had demurrage :D
Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: SgtSpike on February 15, 2012, 04:25:58 PM It would be interesting if your forum posts had demurrage :D What, the letters slowly disappear as time passes?Pretty soon, "A quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog" turns into "I b ump te l ag" Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Explodicle on February 15, 2012, 06:12:55 PM It would be interesting if your forum posts had demurrage :D I just imagined LoupGaroux's eloquent essays slowly degenerating into psy's crude attempts to smash his fists on the keyboard. ;D Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Bitcoin Oz on February 15, 2012, 10:24:52 PM It would be interesting if your forum posts had demurrage :D I just imagined LoupGaroux's eloquent essays slowly degenerating into psy's crude attempts to smash his fists on the keyboard. ;D lol. Something like that. No I meant your status on the boards would degrade if you didnt keep posting. A hero member would eventualy go back to newbie status if they stopped posting for awhile. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: westkybitcoins on February 16, 2012, 07:12:14 AM It would be interesting if your forum posts had demurrage :D I just imagined LoupGaroux's eloquent essays slowly degenerating into psy's crude attempts to smash his fists on the keyboard. ;D lol. Something like that. No I meant your status on the boards would degrade if you didnt keep posting. A hero member would eventualy go back to newbie status if they stopped posting for awhile. Hence, creating post inflation. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Delia on April 06, 2012, 10:40:54 PM It turns out they fail even harder than I thought, which is actually kind of an accomplishment.
First, they suspended demurrage for April, presenting this as a good thing. So even they don't believe their own bullshit philosophy. Second, the email in which they announced this put all the recipients' email addresses in the To: line. So now I have the emails of everyone on their list. (link (http://www.bitcoinservice.co.uk/files/1216)) Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: SgtSpike on April 06, 2012, 11:10:31 PM It turns out they fail even harder than I thought, which is actually kind of an accomplishment. LOL.First, they suspended demurrage for April, presenting this as a good thing. So even they don't believe their own bullshit philosophy. Second, the email in which they announced this put all the recipients' email addresses in the To: line. So now I have the emails of everyone on their list. (link (http://www.bitcoinservice.co.uk/files/1216)) Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: cbeast on April 06, 2012, 11:43:10 PM It turns out they fail even harder than I thought, which is actually kind of an accomplishment. LOL.First, they suspended demurrage for April, presenting this as a good thing. So even they don't believe their own bullshit philosophy. Second, the email in which they announced this put all the recipients' email addresses in the To: line. So now I have the emails of everyone on their list. (link (http://www.bitcoinservice.co.uk/files/1216)) Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: the joint on May 08, 2012, 01:33:26 AM It turns out they fail even harder than I thought, which is actually kind of an accomplishment. LOL.First, they suspended demurrage for April, presenting this as a good thing. So even they don't believe their own bullshit philosophy. Second, the email in which they announced this put all the recipients' email addresses in the To: line. So now I have the emails of everyone on their list. (link (http://www.bitcoinservice.co.uk/files/1216)) +1 Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: dust on May 09, 2012, 06:20:54 AM Is this a joke?
You can buy seats on the general assembly for 100 Euros each. Sure is getting money out of politics! Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: rdponticelli on May 13, 2012, 05:27:18 PM I'm giving a try at this thing since I first heard of it, always supposing that it was going to be an epic fail, but I'm curious anyway. Well, it seems it really is. I'm trying to lend some of the occcus since almost the beginning, without fees nor interest rate, as they put on the slogan. But nobody seems interested. I guess I'll have to pay for somebody to take them? Even then, I can't see anybody would ask for them...
Then I tried to buy any cryptocurrency with them without giving them a value. Even solidcoin would be good, if anybody would be interested, but I know it will be hopeless. A confined centralized economy with a degrading money which offer no way of storing value can't simply work. And even if there was any way of storing value, I can't see the convenience of removing this property from the currency. This force me to act quickly, I have to get rid of the money as soon as I get them not to lose value. I can't see how this don't simply encourage savage consumerism, if there was something to consume... Yes, I understand they're trying to get a money without interest. But what they're going to get in the best case is a useless hiperinflationary money. I'm looking at freicoin too. Even when I can't see the convenience of demurrage, maybe it's just me. But I can't really figure what's the convenience of the velocity they want to give to all the economy. I'm more a slow kind of guy... Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: benjamindees on May 14, 2012, 06:51:28 AM I'm trying to lend some of the occcus since almost the beginning, without fees nor interest rate, as they put on the slogan. But nobody seems interested. I guess I'll have to pay for somebody to take them? Even then, I can't see anybody would ask for them... I'm just here to buy stuff, man. A loan is, like, responsibility. How do they expect interest rates to remain at 0%? It seems like the way to win this game is to borrow as many occcus as possible to invest in the most valuable capital available, and then to just repay the loan with your BIG payments. So, what is the most valuable capital available? That's the catch, isn't it? There is no capital is there... I bet there are some pot growers reading this right now who could completely own the entire occcu economy... You could borrow occcus to pay hippies to build... something... like... a pyramid? Eh, I got nothin'. This is epic fail. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: rdponticelli on May 17, 2012, 05:54:19 PM It seems like the way to win this game is to borrow as many occcus as possible to invest in the most valuable capital available, and then to just repay the loan with your BIG payments. So, what is the most valuable capital available? That's the catch, isn't it? There is no capital is there... I bet there are some pot growers reading this right now who could completely own the entire occcu economy... You could borrow occcus to pay hippies to build... something... like... a pyramid? Eh, I got nothin'. This is epic fail. There's nothing to invest in. And I think there won't ever be. You could possibly own the whole economy with a single satoshi. But it would be too expensive, IMHO. Title: Re: New Epic Fail Currency? 'Occcu' Post by: Clipse on May 17, 2012, 10:05:26 PM So it seems occcu community account is the central bank and printing "occcu's" considering they just hand out 20 OC's for new registrations.
This is far worse than banks printing money lol I havnt seen such a waste of valuable time in a while, I wonder what is their endgame strategy. |