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Title: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: BittBurger on June 01, 2014, 06:35:25 PM Disclaimer: Playing devils advocate here. And I hope im dead wrong.
We're back to the peak of the last spike. Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed. All on FUD. What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again? ------ Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $250 in a week and a half. That's got to be a pump. Agree or disagree? I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated. Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit. We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450. Is the rest just large holders making profits? I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost". Again - here's to me being very wrong! :) -B- Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: BittBurger on June 01, 2014, 06:50:01 PM Oh look.
It just dropped to $618. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: howardb on June 01, 2014, 06:50:48 PM Disclaimer: Playing devils advocate here. And I hope im dead wrong. We're back to the peak of the last spike. Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed. All on FUD. What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again? ------ Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $300 in a week and a half. That's got to be a pump. Agree or disagree? I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated. Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit. We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450. Is the rest just large holders making profits? I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost". Again - here's to me being very wrong! :) -B- You may or may not be right, but your just speculating, it could just as easily be genuine herd mentality investing, or a big player accumulating, a pump or... There is simply no point to the speculation unless you can back it up with something. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: J_Dubbs on June 01, 2014, 06:51:00 PM $450? Based on what? Your feelings?
I think what you are trying to establish is a firm foundation value. Without future cash flows to discount or a balance sheet you can't really have a firm foundation value. This is a speculative investment, everything is based on supply and demand. BTC is a castle in the air, and we all hope for a greater fool to buy in later and make the price go higher. Plenty of great investments were speculative castles in the air, like MSFT back in the 80s. All this is outlined in Random Walk Down Wall Street, and basically my point here is that nobody has a freaking clue where BTC is headed. It's very likely there is manipulation happening, but that exists in all markets where money is trading hands. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: helmax on June 01, 2014, 06:58:35 PM this is fucking willy bot in action
cant be the real price Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: BittBurger on June 01, 2014, 06:59:59 PM It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong?
I want to know who the assholes are that are screwing with the price and making bitcoin so volatile, making it lose the respect of the masses for their own financial gain. -B- Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: BittBurger on June 01, 2014, 07:01:26 PM It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong? Yes, you are wrong. Then you're a special kind of dumb. -B- Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: AstralWonder on June 01, 2014, 07:02:03 PM Disclaimer: Playing devils advocate here. And I hope im dead wrong. Good call.We're back to the peak of the last spike. Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed. All on FUD. What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again? ------ Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $250 in a week and a half. That's got to be a pump. Agree or disagree? I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated. Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit. We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450. Is the rest just large holders making profits? I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost". Again - here's to me being very wrong! :) -B- Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jc01480 on June 01, 2014, 07:04:14 PM Dumped. I suspect a pump and dump.
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: helmax on June 01, 2014, 07:05:00 PM is always the same fuckers bfl knc avalon bitfury .... and more more
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: btcton on June 01, 2014, 07:06:54 PM Dumped. I suspect a pump and dump. Back up to $640-$650. It's jumping all around at this point.Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: ncsupanda on June 01, 2014, 07:07:15 PM Luckily the price of BTC is still above 0. Time to buy. 8)
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 01, 2014, 07:08:14 PM Disclaimer: Playing devils advocate here. And I hope im dead wrong. We're back to the peak of the last spike. Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed. All on FUD. What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again? ------ Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $250 in a week and a half. That's got to be a pump. Agree or disagree? I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated. Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit. We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450. Is the rest just large holders making profits? I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost". Again - here's to me being very wrong! :) -B- You act like you've never seen the ups and downs in a financial instrument before. Prices bounce around all over the place, whether its stocks, currencies, commodities, etc. Sometimes it might be large players, sometimes it might be overall sentiment, sometimes it can be news, traders taking profits, etc. At the end of the day, price moves because of buyers and sellers, supply and demand, etc. Saying the "actual value is $450" when the market value is much higher is simply your personal opinion, and opinions are meaningless here. Also, its a big principle of price action, that spikes indicate the start of a trend. Given that price already had a long bear run, then settled into a channel in the $400s... this is most likely a breakout to the upside and the start of a new bull trend. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on June 01, 2014, 07:28:39 PM Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: bananas on June 01, 2014, 07:29:02 PM I understand it as an atificial pump from bitstamp or someone else, there were many large purchases on the high price for no reason, no big deal dish accepting bitcoin...Someone(s) so wealthy to make this pump would be schooled enough to know he was buying on the wrong moment.
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: helmax on June 01, 2014, 07:32:36 PM its a test of the bot
when finished price drop again ??? Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: CurbsideProphet on June 01, 2014, 07:32:51 PM I understand it as an atificial pump from bitstamp or someone else, there were many large purchases on the high price for no reason, no big deal dish accepting bitcoin...Someone(s) so wealthy to make this pump would be schooled enough to know he was buying on the wrong momment. If someone is pumping it doesn't matter if he buys high so long as someone else buys higher. Bitcoin despite the progress is still a relatively illiquid market making it easy to manipulate if you have a lot of $$$. And this belongs in speculation. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 01, 2014, 07:34:27 PM its a test of the bot when finished price drop again ??? With all due respect, WTF are you talking about? Bots can't move the price any more than normal traders can. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: superresistant on June 01, 2014, 07:36:25 PM Let's look at the facts : No bad news for weeks. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: nottm28 on June 01, 2014, 07:38:10 PM This is market manipulation for sure - it pisses me off only becuase I haven't got $250k worth of coins to 'play' about with and join in the quick buck gains...
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 01, 2014, 07:43:57 PM This is market manipulation for sure - it pisses me off only becuase I haven't got $250k worth of coins to 'play' about with and join in the quick buck gains... how are you defining "market manipulation"? How do you know its not a large seller taking profits from a trade that started weeks ago in the $400s? How do you know its many traders taking profits because price has entered overbought territory? How do you know its not miners unloading coins? Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: nottm28 on June 01, 2014, 07:47:58 PM This is market manipulation for sure - it pisses me off only becuase I haven't got $250k worth of coins to 'play' about with and join in the quick buck gains... how are you defining "market manipulation"? How do you know its not a large seller taking profits from a trade that started weeks ago in the $400s? How do you know its many traders taking profits because price has entered overbought territory? How do you know its not miners unloading coins? Market manipulation is a deliberate attempt to interfere with the free and fair operation of the market and create artificial, false or misleading appearances with respect to the price of, or market for, a security, commodity or currency. Market manipulation is prohibited in most countries, in particular, it is prohibited in the United States under Section 9(a)(2)[1] of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, in Australia under Section 1041A of the Corporations Act 2001, and in Israel under Section 54(a) of the securities act of 1968. The Act defines market manipulation as transactions which create an artificial price or maintain an artificial price for a tradeable security. Wikipedia definition - Are you saying this isn't happening? It's not against the law when it comes to BTC as this market is unregulated... Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 01, 2014, 07:51:07 PM Yes, I'm saying that isn't happening, because there is no evidence to suggest that it is.
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: DooMAD on June 01, 2014, 07:52:20 PM Not sure if it's purely a pump, as it's a little volatile for that. Went from $645 down to $620 then back up to $635.
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: nottm28 on June 01, 2014, 07:53:35 PM Yes, I'm saying that isn't happening, because there is no evidence to suggest that it is. Ok have it your way - I see your new here... Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 01, 2014, 07:54:50 PM Yes, I'm saying that isn't happening, because there is no evidence to suggest that it is. Ok have it your way - I see your new here... I've made more posts than you here. Not that it matters either way. What evidence do you have that market manipulation is occurring? Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: franky1 on June 01, 2014, 08:02:15 PM $450? Based on what? Your feelings? I think what you are trying to establish is a firm foundation value. Without future cash flows to discount or a balance sheet you can't really have a firm foundation value. This is a speculative investment, everything is based on supply and demand. BTC is a castle in the air, and we all hope for a greater fool to buy in later and make the price go higher. Plenty of great investments were speculative castles in the air, like MSFT back in the 80s. All this is outlined in Random Walk Down Wall Street, and basically my point here is that nobody has a freaking clue where BTC is headed. It's very likely there is manipulation happening, but that exists in all markets where money is trading hands. the bases of him saying $450 is true value is based on the fact that the majority of people were refusing to sell any less then that range. meaning they did not see any profit or desire to sell lower. this is the same as anything else the base price that something does not go below for a long period becomes the price that the majority agree's to be the low/true value, where everything else above it is speculation, until another long term settling point is reached. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: nottm28 on June 01, 2014, 08:04:26 PM I've made more posts than you here. Well, some people talk a lot... Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 01, 2014, 08:15:48 PM where does fair whale play end and "market manipulation" begin anyway?
Who can really say. This not like Gox style manipulation where they could change the price to whatever they wanted since no one could get their money out. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: haploid23 on June 01, 2014, 08:30:11 PM it pisses me off only becuase I haven't got $250k worth of coins to 'play' about with So you're mad because you don't have enough money? I'm raging right now because I'm not a billionaire. I'm also pretty pissed off because I didn't win the lottery 3 times in a row. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: nottm28 on June 01, 2014, 08:31:13 PM where does fair whale play end and "market manipulation" begin anyway? Who can really say. This not like Gox style manipulation where they could change the price to whatever they wanted since no one could get their money out. If you have say 500 BTC, you could write some code to make use of the bitstamp api (for example) to automatically price yourself to buy a tad higher than 'the majority' of 'bids' and to sell a tad lower than the majority of 'asks'. It's by no means an exact science and you need a hefty amount of coins to 'manipulate' the market this way. This has definitely been happening yesterday and today. I was watching the bots in action with countless transactions selling 1.899989898 BTC then a few minutes later buying back the same amount of BTC for a slight gain. Scale this up and you have a hefty hand to manipulate the market with. Once you have gained too many coins because your algorithm is not quite right, you dump. Or if you sold too many coins because the algorithm is not quite right, you buy. Then you tweak your algorithm and start again. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: nottm28 on June 01, 2014, 08:31:41 PM it pisses me off only becuase I haven't got $250k worth of coins to 'play' about with So you're mad because you don't have enough money? I'm raging right now because I'm not a billionaire. I'm also pretty pissed off because I didn't win the lottery 3 times in a row. er babsically, yeah Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: smoothie on June 01, 2014, 08:35:52 PM Wouldn't surprise me if OP got shaken out during this next bull rally over the course of these next two months.
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 01, 2014, 08:36:30 PM where does fair whale play end and "market manipulation" begin anyway? Who can really say. This not like Gox style manipulation where they could change the price to whatever they wanted since no one could get their money out. If you have say 500 BTC, you could write some code to make use of the bitstamp api (for example) to automatically price yourself to buy a tad higher than 'the majority' of 'bids' and to sell a tad lower than the majority of 'asks'. It's by no means an exact science and you need a hefty amount of coins to 'manipulate' the market this way. This has definitely been happening yesterday and today. I was watching the bots in action with countless transactions selling 1.899989898 BTC then a few minutes later buying back the same amount of BTC for a slight gain. Scale this up and you have a hefty hand to manipulate the market with. Once you have gained too many coins because you're algorithm is not quite right, you dump. Or if you sold too many coins because the algorithm is not quite right, you buy. Then you tweak your algorithm and start again. That's simply algorithmic trading and there's nothing dishonest about it. As Bitcoin grows, expect more of it just like algorithmic trading has become the norm in the forex market. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: MatTheCat on June 01, 2014, 08:38:10 PM It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong? I want to know who the assholes are that are screwing with the price and making bitcoin so volatile, making it lose the respect of the masses for their own financial gain. -B- I agree. Been watching the action on the way up and it stinks of shit. Looks to me like someone swishing Bitcoins around in order to engineer BUY signal after BUY signal, and then this crash which coincided with the swaps on Bitfinex (main USD leverage exchange) hitting extortionate rates and a bit of selling pressure. Probably, Bitcoin has always been like this. So there are two ways of looking at this. There is the 'Fuck them guys' point of view and there is also the point of view that perhaps we are now getting our textbook engineered correction to set us up for Wave (iii) of Wave (III), which as any textbook will tell you, is thee ultimate time to enter market? A textbook correction from a $420-$680 rise which would bring around the conditions for the onset of a wave (iii) of a Wave (III), would be mid to upper $500's. Might take a while to get their but now the sharks at Bitfinex have turned the market psychology on it's head, perhaps there is a good chance that we will get their. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 01, 2014, 08:46:02 PM It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong? I want to know who the assholes are that are screwing with the price and making bitcoin so volatile, making it lose the respect of the masses for their own financial gain. -B- I agree. Been watching the action on the way up and it stinks of shit. Looks to me like someone swishing Bitcoins around in order to engineer BUY signal after BUY signal, and then this crash which coincided with the swaps on Bitfinex (main USD leverage exchange) hitting extortionate rates and a bit of selling pressure. Probably, Bitcoin has always been like this. So there are two ways of looking at this. There is the 'Fuck them guys' point of view and there is also the point of view that perhaps we are now getting our textbook engineered correction to set us up for Wave (iii) of Wave (III), which as any textbook will tell you, is thee ultimate time to enter market? A textbook correction from a $420-$680 rise which would bring around the conditions for the onset of a wave (iii) of a Wave (III), would be mid to upper $500's. Might take a while to get their but now the sharks at Bitfinex have turned the market psychology on it's head, perhaps there is a good chance that we will get their. EW is needlessly complicated way to look at market. And since few people are looking at those waves (and since they can be interpreted differently), people aren't engineering the market that way. If whales are in fact trying to move the market (I wouldn't even call that market manipulation), they are using a much simpler strategy of just trying to create momentum in favor of their trades. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: nottm28 on June 01, 2014, 08:47:38 PM where does fair whale play end and "market manipulation" begin anyway? Who can really say. This not like Gox style manipulation where they could change the price to whatever they wanted since no one could get their money out. If you have say 500 BTC, you could write some code to make use of the bitstamp api (for example) to automatically price yourself to buy a tad higher than 'the majority' of 'bids' and to sell a tad lower than the majority of 'asks'. It's by no means an exact science and you need a hefty amount of coins to 'manipulate' the market this way. This has definitely been happening yesterday and today. I was watching the bots in action with countless transactions selling 1.899989898 BTC then a few minutes later buying back the same amount of BTC for a slight gain. Scale this up and you have a hefty hand to manipulate the market with. Once you have gained too many coins because you're algorithm is not quite right, you dump. Or if you sold too many coins because the algorithm is not quite right, you buy. Then you tweak your algorithm and start again. That's simply algorithmic trading and there's nothing dishonest about it. As Bitcoin grows, expect more of it just like algorithmic trading has become the norm in the forex market. There's also nothing dishonest about digging every last bit of coal out of the ground, sucking up every last drop of oil, or tearing down every tree on the planet for a profit. Doesn't make it right though... But hey sod the future of everything as long as I can increase my $2million to $3million... Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Carra23 on June 01, 2014, 08:48:33 PM Disclaimer: Playing devils advocate here. And I hope im dead wrong. We're back to the peak of the last spike. Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed. All on FUD. What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again? ------ Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $250 in a week and a half. That's got to be a pump. Agree or disagree? I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated. Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit. We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450. Is the rest just large holders making profits? I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost". Again - here's to me being very wrong! :) -B- I do not think it is a conspiracy as such. BTC price will keep bobbing up and down for a few months now. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: knightcoin on June 01, 2014, 08:53:37 PM Bitcoin got more radical roller coaster though ::)
http://bigpicture.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/23/wall_street_roller_coaster.gif Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: MatTheCat on June 01, 2014, 08:54:49 PM And since few people are looking at those waves (and since they can be interpreted differently), people aren't engineering the market that way. If whales are in fact trying to move the market (I wouldn't even call that market manipulation), they are using a much simpler strategy of just trying to create momentum in favor of their trades. Perhaps. But if you were sitting on sidelines earlier today with a fair chunk of capital and bullish on Bitcoin. Would you be looking to invest long term at $650, after a 35% rise in less than a week without any meaningful correction, or would you be waiting on 'the correction' to occur before entering market. Corrections are important psychologically for bull markets whether the majority of players are looking at Elliott Waves or not. Question is, is a 30 minute flash crash sufficient and was $618 the bottom of 'the correction', or does their need to be more correcting/consolidating before sidelines capital feels comfortable to enter the market? Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 01, 2014, 09:30:42 PM And since few people are looking at those waves (and since they can be interpreted differently), people aren't engineering the market that way. If whales are in fact trying to move the market (I wouldn't even call that market manipulation), they are using a much simpler strategy of just trying to create momentum in favor of their trades. Perhaps. But if you were sitting on sidelines earlier today with a fair chunk of capital and bullish on Bitcoin. Would you be looking to invest long term at $650, after a 35% rise in less than a week without any meaningful correction, or would you be waiting on 'the correction' to occur before entering market. Corrections are important psychologically for bull markets whether the majority of players are looking at Elliott Waves or not. Question is, is a 30 minute flash crash sufficient and was $618 the bottom of 'the correction', or does their need to be more correcting/consolidating before sidelines capital feels comfortable to enter the market? down to $618 is plenty of a correction... you're only going to get so much of a correction during a bull spike anyway. And you don't necessarily have to wait. Amateur mistake is waiting for the correction that never comes and missing out on the trend...(and then later chasing it)... better to put on at least a partial position if you see a breakout is happening. This is in the context of a larger move over the next few weeks, say... (Relative to $440, price already moved a lot to $650...so if you missed that move, you just missed it) Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Torque on June 01, 2014, 09:40:14 PM Let's look at the facts : No bad news for weeks. China FUD just disappeared overnight? The witch hunt FUD for the real Satoshi disappeared overnight? Bitstamp insolvency fears, Willy, Gox, and all the other bad news gone? And for some reason, you don't wonder why that is? Couldn't possibly be on purpose, by design that all bad news just magically went away, could it? And you think that's air you're breathing now, Neo? ;D (full disclaimer: I'm a permabull, but I know exactly how the media works, when, and for what purpose) Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: MatTheCat on June 01, 2014, 09:50:17 PM down to $618 is plenty of a correction... you're only going to get so much of a correction during a bull spike anyway. And you don't necessarily have to wait. Amateur mistake is waiting for the correction that never comes and missing out on the trend...(and then later chasing it)... better to put on at least a partial position if you see a breakout is happening. This is in the context of a larger move over the next few weeks, say... (Relative to $440, price already moved a lot to $650...so if you missed that move, you just missed it) I suspect that there were a whole lot of leveraged long traders looking to cash out their trades at around the $700 mark. Now they are waiting for Bitcoin to get back up to the $680 level. But if the longs are maxed out, who is going to take Bitcoin back up there with sufficient volume in the Bid wall for these guys to cash out? If there has been new investment that has come to Bitcoin then most of it is already in for the time being. I suspect that this market shake down could go a good bit further down than $618, as buying pressure fails to take Bitcoin back up to it's high and the leveraged longs grow increasingly twitchy. Owning an asset outright and waiting on the market to come back to you is one thing, but being in debt due to a leveraged position as the market goes against your trade is a different psychological can of worms altogether. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: kireinaha on June 01, 2014, 10:18:35 PM people keep using the words "market manipulation" here. I don't think these words mean what you think they mean.
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: DolanDuck on June 01, 2014, 10:21:27 PM The price seems to be manipulated in my opinion because there's huge buy walls that are being created by a single or a couple of whales in the same time.
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: zimmah on June 01, 2014, 10:22:43 PM down to $618 is plenty of a correction... you're only going to get so much of a correction during a bull spike anyway. And you don't necessarily have to wait. Amateur mistake is waiting for the correction that never comes and missing out on the trend...(and then later chasing it)... better to put on at least a partial position if you see a breakout is happening. This is in the context of a larger move over the next few weeks, say... (Relative to $440, price already moved a lot to $650...so if you missed that move, you just missed it) I suspect that there were a whole lot of leveraged long traders looking to cash out their trades at around the $700 mark. Now they are waiting for Bitcoin to get back up to the $680 level. But if the longs are maxed out, who is going to take Bitcoin back up there with sufficient volume in the Bid wall for these guys to cash out? If there has been new investment that has come to Bitcoin then most of it is already in for the time being. I suspect that this market shake down could go a good bit further down than $618, as buying pressure fails to take Bitcoin back up to it's high and the leveraged longs grow increasingly twitchy. Owning an asset outright and waiting on the market to come back to you is one thing, but being in debt due to a leveraged position as the market goes against your trade is a different psychological can of worms altogether. nah, every time it flashcrashes it bounces right back to levels were it was supported previously. In this case it seems to be around $640 it will just gather some steam and try again within the next day Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: maker88 on June 01, 2014, 10:43:49 PM It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong? Yes, you are wrong. Then you're a special kind of dumb. -B- sell your coins then and leave us 'dumb' folks to our profits Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: MatTheCat on June 01, 2014, 10:47:54 PM people keep using the words "market manipulation" here. I don't think these words mean what you think they mean. What about 'Market Engineering' then? Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: leopard2 on June 02, 2014, 12:27:34 AM Market engineering, they do that for gold since 1950.... ;D
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: beetcoin on June 02, 2014, 02:01:35 AM i don't think there's any doubt that bitcoin is being manipulated/pumped. the market cap was/is small enough to the point where a few rich people colluding could push the prices up.. and we live in a capitalistic society. it just adds up, at least to me.
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: btc6000 on June 02, 2014, 02:02:52 AM Forget the 15m charts unless you're daytrading. +/- 10% swing is 'normal' for Bitcoin. Look at the 1d, 3d, 1w with a log scale to see the broader trend. Where are support and resistance points? Watch the EMAs - when did they cross? Does price always revert to the mean? If so, then expect a drop if it's too far above the EMA.
Don't ignore fundamental analysis and overall market sentiment. The trend is your friend. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: BitchicksHusband on June 02, 2014, 02:10:58 AM this is fucking willy bot in action cant be the real price This is definitely a bot, but the question is whose bot? It could be legit. About a month ago rpietila said that a large investor wanted to buy 1% of all bitcoins. It could be his bot. Now that he bought everything available off-market, he's forced to buy on market and effect the price. The bot could be the way to buy the coins as cheaply as possible while still buying them fairly quickly, before too much panic buying sets in. The bot seems to have a great strategy: 1. Buy a single order every 3-4 seconds 2. When you reach a high, wait 10-20 seconds to see if anyone sells 3. If someone sells at any time, wait 45 seconds to see if lower orders fill in Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 02, 2014, 02:26:45 AM I was quoting you today "it's going back up agaiiiin" lol
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Gleason on June 02, 2014, 03:31:09 AM We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450. I wouldn't call it an "actual value". Its called THE BOTTOM, and its called that for a reason. Alot of the money that is coming back in, is probably not "new" money. More like old money that changed to smarter hands. Most smart traders went into fiat in the $800-1000+ range and waited for a bottom to re-enter.. They saw the 430-450 range where most people refused to sell anymore, and it settled there. Now the profits for traders from a few months ago, is flowing back in, along with some new money as well. We also had nothing but good news when we were in the $400 range, so that had to instill confidence in people to re-invest back in. -Brian Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: beetcoin on June 02, 2014, 06:38:12 AM We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450. I wouldn't call it an "actual value". Its called THE BOTTOM, and its called that for a reason. Alot of the money that is coming back in, is probably not "new" money. More like old money that changed to smarter hands. Most smart traders went into fiat in the $800-1000+ range and waited for a bottom to re-enter.. They saw the 430-450 range where most people refused to sell anymore, and it settled there. Now the profits for traders from a few months ago, is flowing back in, along with some new money as well. We also had nothing but good news when we were in the $400 range, so that had to instill confidence in people to re-invest back in. -Brian yeah i don't know if i'd call it "actual value." just more like "what people are willing to pay for it, based on what they think other people would pay for it." Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: yenom on June 02, 2014, 08:42:15 AM It just dropped to $618 and you're still telling me im wrong? I want to know who the assholes are that are screwing with the price and making bitcoin so volatile, making it lose the respect of the masses for their own financial gain. -B- It's called a thin market. I've followed some of your posts on here and I thought you would understand that. Look at the value of the inside spread on the S&P 500 Futures contract compared to the inside spread of bitstamp and it's a joke. We're talking many orders of magnitude different. It takes peanuts to move bitcoin around (comparatively speaking). The rest of the comments in this thread tell me that most people on this forum haven't got the first clue about market dynamics. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Don007 on June 02, 2014, 08:45:11 AM I don't think it was a pump. I think it's a sign that we're obviously on our way back! Back to the top!
It's about $50.- less worth now than yesterday, but hey, I expected that. We can't head to an alltime high without some stabilizations or how you would like to call them. I think we'll be above the $675 soon enough again. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: yenom on June 02, 2014, 08:46:48 AM I don't think it was a pump. I think it's a sign that we're obviously on our way back! Back to the top! It's about $50.- less worth now than yesterday, but hey, I expected that. We can't head to an alltime high without some stabilizations or how you would like to call them. I think we'll be above the $675 soon enough again. Ultimately yes, but I think we will see $550 before we see $700. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Don007 on June 02, 2014, 08:47:45 AM I don't think it was a pump. I think it's a sign that we're obviously on our way back! Back to the top! It's about $50.- less worth now than yesterday, but hey, I expected that. We can't head to an alltime high without some stabilizations or how you would like to call them. I think we'll be above the $675 soon enough again. Ultimately yes, but I think we will see $550 before we see $700. Might be possible indeed, allthough I don't think we will go less than $500.-. I think we will find out soon enough, for now it's time to make some money on this "stabilization" :). Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Marbit on June 02, 2014, 09:11:57 AM Hard to say where we are going from here. We have a confirmed shooting star on the Bitfinex daily chart, and waiting for confirmation of follow through should be retrace harder. I think from looking at the daily that we could hit the mid-500s. This thing needs to cool off. 8)
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: freedomno1 on June 02, 2014, 09:14:22 AM It still feels like the price is on a consistent upward trend
It takes a while to get into momentum but usually 200 dollars a month averaging upward seems to be reasonable Before an even more rapid incline then stop sss Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: TERA on June 02, 2014, 09:20:47 AM I'm kind of expecting something like this assuming the uptrend holds.
https://i.imgur.com/KVETRgO.png Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: bitleif on June 02, 2014, 09:23:59 AM It's called a thin market. I've followed some of your posts on here and I thought you would understand that. Look at the value of the inside spread on the S&P 500 Futures contract compared to the inside spread of bitstamp and it's a joke. We're talking many orders of magnitude different. It takes peanuts to move bitcoin around (comparatively speaking). The rest of the comments in this thread tell me that most people on this forum haven't got the first clue about market dynamics. Amen. Conspiracy theorists are fun. People have always made up bullshit stories to explain things they don't understand. Thunder is because Thor is riding a wagon. That creaking upstairs has to be a ghost. And apparently every time someone loses out because they risked way too much of their own money in a f**king volatile market, it's because of some magical whale bot or something like that. Once you learn that your losses are nobody's fault but your own, then you can start to improve. But not before. This applies to everything in life not just bitcoin. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Don007 on June 02, 2014, 09:32:55 AM I'm kind of expecting something like this assuming the uptrend holds. https://i.imgur.com/KVETRgO.png Exactly! That's exactly how I expect the trend is going to be. Allthough I'm not so sure that the first coming "crash" is stabilized as fast as in your chart. I don't think we will go below <500 again soon, and I do believe that we're back on track heading to the top again. The 750$ will be reached in months! Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: CEG5952 on June 02, 2014, 09:57:06 AM Indeed, I am watching the 530-550 zone closely for a base to take off to the moon from. We've been feeling overbought for several days, and may need to shake out some more weak hands before doing so.
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: superresistant on June 02, 2014, 12:51:33 PM It's called a thin market. I've followed some of your posts on here and I thought you would understand that. Look at the value of the inside spread on the S&P 500 Futures contract compared to the inside spread of bitstamp and it's a joke. We're talking many orders of magnitude different. It takes peanuts to move bitcoin around (comparatively speaking). The rest of the comments in this thread tell me that most people on this forum haven't got the first clue about market dynamics. Amen. Conspiracy theorists are fun. People have always made up bullshit stories to explain things they don't understand. Thunder is because Thor is riding a wagon. That creaking upstairs has to be a ghost. And apparently every time someone loses out because they risked way too much of their own money in a f**king volatile market, it's because of some magical whale bot or something like that. Once you learn that your losses are nobody's fault but your own, then you can start to improve. But not before. This applies to everything in life not just bitcoin. Haha, so true. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: rohnearner on June 02, 2014, 01:23:22 PM I'm glad that we didn't crossed 700$ last night although most of us wanted that to happen but not like this, personally i'll like to see it around 650-700$ mark for some week so that all those pump and dump theories can take a rest..! we all know what happened when btc reached ATH last Nov and then crashed back simply because it wasn't really worth that much at that point of time, .! just going ahead on slow and steady pace and I'm happy with it.. not expecting more but even if we reach and stabilize at 1k-1.5k$ mark for well over 2-3months by the end of the year or early next year i'll be more than happy. and after that we can expect boom...
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: howardb on June 02, 2014, 02:19:02 PM I can't help but laugh at the conspiracy theorists and those that dismiss them out of hand. It seems to me a golden rule that with an unregulated market of multi billion dollar value "if crooked people can get away with manipulating, crooked people will manipulate."
The best way to play cat and mouse is don't be the mouse! Buy and hold for the long term! If you try and trade in an unregulated market sooner or later those with deeper pockets will show you how they got rich in the first place! It also strikes me that if you REALLY REALLY beleived in Bitcoins future (and i'm talking the kind of belief that says this thing will be $100k -> $1000k per coin at some point) then WHY would you risk your precious coins now by trying to trade them? I'm praying it doesnt go up so I can keep accumulating.... Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Torque on June 02, 2014, 02:53:40 PM Indeed, I am watching the 530-550 zone closely for a base to take off to the moon from. We've been feeling overbought for several days, and may need to shake out some more weak hands before doing so. I love how so many on this sub forum that expect a "drastic correction" always put their buy-in targets at $80-100 below where the market will likely go. And then they are left scratching their heads when that drastic of a correction never happens. I believe that the new ~600-ish support is going to be very tough to break now. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: nickenburg on June 02, 2014, 03:07:59 PM Does anyone have any evidence supporting a pump?
Cant it just be that we left alot of bad new behind us and move into a new period again? Ofcourse there can be some big players that can manipulate the prices. But they have to ether have alot of money or work togheter in a big group. Lets say there is a price manipulator, how much bitcoins must he sell or buy to even manipulate the price? Lets say he buys bitcoins for 1 million at 400$ so that is 2500 bitcoins. And he sells them again at 680 that would be 2500x680= 700k profit So if he buys bitcoins for 10 million he has 7 million profit, that's actually crazy profit if you look at it like this. But do you guys think this is actually possible, I mean with the blockchain there has to be proof of that then right? Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Don007 on June 02, 2014, 06:55:47 PM Indeed, I am watching the 530-550 zone closely for a base to take off to the moon from. We've been feeling overbought for several days, and may need to shake out some more weak hands before doing so. I love how so many on this sub forum that expect a "drastic correction" always put their buy-in targets at $80-100 below where the market will likely go. And then they are left scratching their heads when that drastic of a correction never happens. I believe that the new ~600-ish support is going to be very tough to break now. I agree with you. I think 600 is going to be the bottom value for a quite long time soon enough. However, I think we might get go <500 again first. I don't really care, I reinvested in BTC when the value was around 450$. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: ncsupanda on June 02, 2014, 06:58:22 PM I'm kind of expecting something like this assuming the uptrend holds. https://i.imgur.com/KVETRgO.png I just have to say that I lol'd at this. I know it's an actual guess, but I can't help but think you used paints drawing tool to do this. I don't understand why people haven't seen that the trend is upwards over time, even with drops. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: nottm28 on June 02, 2014, 07:15:07 PM I'm kind of expecting something like this assuming the uptrend holds. I just have to say that I lol'd at this. I know it's an actual guess, but I can't help but think you used paints drawing tool to do this. I don't understand why people haven't seen that the trend is upwards over time, even with drops. In principal I tend to agree with the graph 'as a whole'. Also, it's uncanny how his hand was able to mimic nature so well there - almost as though he had a few drinks or something... Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Don007 on June 03, 2014, 01:04:27 PM I'm kind of expecting something like this assuming the uptrend holds. I just have to say that I lol'd at this. I know it's an actual guess, but I can't help but think you used paints drawing tool to do this. I don't understand why people haven't seen that the trend is upwards over time, even with drops. In principal I tend to agree with the graph 'as a whole'. Also, it's uncanny how his hand was able to mimic nature so well there - almost as though he had a few drinks or something... I agree with NCuspanda, there's obviously a trend upwards now. Yes, we've to deal with some drops now and then, but we can't head to the top in one straight line right? That would be really weird and unrealistic. I really think we're on our way back to the top. I reinvested some fiat in BTC when the price was about $450, and in my view i've done a great job by doing that :). Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: jonald_fyookball on June 03, 2014, 02:02:15 PM Yes, we've to deal with some drops now and then, but we can't head to the top in one straight line right? That would be really weird and unrealistic. Of course. Price never moves in a straight line. Markets don't work that way. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Don007 on June 03, 2014, 02:12:48 PM Yes, we've to deal with some drops now and then, but we can't head to the top in one straight line right? That would be really weird and unrealistic. Of course. Price never moves in a straight line. Markets don't work that way. Exactly. That's why I don't really understand why everybody is talking about "pumps", "crashes" and "bubbles". "Pumps" are mostly only possible with altcoins when you own a nice capital. To really "pump" the bitcoin, I think you should have lots and lots of money.. And, why should you? Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: lumierre on June 03, 2014, 02:22:36 PM sudden price surge != manipulation.
We can't expect all new comers to be the same financially everyday. At some days there will just be average joes coming in and at some days there's Google, dish, etc. And, for your convenience: http://www.investopedia.com/video/play/pump-and-dump/ Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: MatTheCat on June 03, 2014, 02:46:55 PM "Pumps" are mostly only possible with altcoins when you own a nice capital. To really "pump" the bitcoin, I think you should have lots and lots of money.. And, why should you? In the grander scheme of things, Bitcoin really is small chips. The equivalent of a pennystock. The Winklevoss twins for example reportedly own around 200'000 BTC? How much of that stack and how much corresponding fiat would it take for them to ramp (or crash) the Bitcoin price as it is defined on the 4-5 large exchanges? Relatively speaking, not very much right? With the tailwinds of the pending MACD and MA crossovers gearing up behind Bitcoin, perhaps now is the ideal time to engineer another Bitcoin mania bubble? Perhaps Joe Public isn't that interested at the moment, but if/when Bitcoin takes out it's previous ATH's, then he will come charging in once again, just like he did at least twice before. I should know, in Nov 2013, I was Joe Public. If you owned 200K BTC, would you prefer for Bitcoin to trend around $500 or whatever and slowly make it's way up as adoption increases, or would you a great big headline hitting cash cow mega bubble, that takes Bitcoin up to $5K or whatever? If you had the means to 'help' such a bubble come to fruition, and you never had to do anything illegal, you might just be tempted to do it, right? Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: Melbustus on June 03, 2014, 05:35:21 PM ... The Winklevoss twins for example reportedly own around 200'000 BTC? ... It's closer to 100,000BTC. Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: knightcoin on June 03, 2014, 06:33:20 PM Pump up the jam, pump it up
While your feet are stompin' And the jam is pumpin' Look at here the crowd is jumpin' Pump it up a little more ... Technotronic - Pump Up The Jam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EcjWd-O4jI Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: spazzdla on June 03, 2014, 08:23:02 PM On the path to buy those 200 000 BTC to crash the market.. BTC would visit the moon...
Title: Re: Back to $680. So obvious this is a pump. Post by: reg on June 03, 2014, 10:06:31 PM Disclaimer: Playing devils advocate here. And I hope im dead wrong. We're back to the peak of the last spike. Right before the convenient fake bad news came out, and the price conveniently crashed. All on FUD. What bad news is going to come out this coming week to make the price crash again? ------ Genuine adoption and commerce don't make the price go up $250 in a week and a half. That's got to be a pump. Agree or disagree? I used to argue with people who claimed BTC price was being manipulated. Then I learned through experience that BOTS, Fake news stories, and whales may be playing around a bit. We can safely say Bitcoins actual value right now is about $450. Is the rest just large holders making profits? I wonder what announcement will go live next week to justify a crash, and make it look like "investor confidence was lost". Again - here's to me being very wrong! :) I disagree: It appears to me the ta's are trying to fit btc into their known tried and tested formulas. Some traders may well be buying and selling on that basis but I believe it is wrong. EW analysis has always been applied to single currencies or commodities as have support and resistance lines based on macd related to market volume. However btc is not one thing -it is many things acting together. There are many long term holders in my opinion that believe in the long term value of valuable numbers and these will form a base line of value well above many predicted retracement levels. At the same time there are many who have a psychological value in mind to take a profit that may or may not coincide with a resistance line but I have noticed these are too few to cause retracement as far as ta't predict. Adoption is gaining pace I think and there is a lot of positive news just now so I think we will see buying even at higher prices by those who view btc more as a commodity and look for longer term price maintenance over fiat. so some manipulation yes but not enough at this market cap to count as dumping because it is not in the interest of large holders to devalue their holding significantly. My belief is we will see steps up with small corrections to year end at around $1500-$2000 . Select your strategy on the aspect of btc that suits you and go for it. good luck!. -B- |
