Bitcoin Forum

It's been hovering 47-48% for the last 24 hours:

https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hrs

Do we really trust GHash.IO/CEX.IO that much that they wouldn't just start double spending like crazy and causing all sorts of stability issues for the Bitcoin network?

Even if they weren't trying a 51% attack, why would any miner personally go on there knowing the risk to the network? 

Must be a bunch of Noobs going to the biggest pool with the 0% fees, not knowing the consequences this can cause.

For chrissakes go to any of these other pools:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104664.0

ANYTHING BUT GHASH.IO

It's kind of like saving the environment or voting - no one wants to make a move when it disadvantages them and makes no noticeable difference in the end.

Try www.coinking.io (http://coinking.io/?r=10811), seems to be paying more then mining BTC directly (only if you are mining with GPU).

People are sucked in by ghash's 0% fee deal.
Too many of them do not think twice.
They also think the lower variance means ghash is better.
I totally agree people need to leave there and never go back.
The risk is too great.

A sign that intelligence is not required to have power or wealth.

The fact that Ghash.IO does nothing about it and scares the community shows how apathetic they are for the community's concern.  May their servers suffer a thousand EMPs  ;D

This exactly. I remember a couple months ago they said they'd "implement a feature to allow users to mine at different pools"

*crickets chirp*

Well I guess they're just trying to fulfill the requirement that BTC have some crisis at all times. Mt Gox invalid papers, BTC fork, China bans BTC, Russia bans BTC, MT Gox hands away their customer's funds, Mt Gox blames BTC devs for critical flaw, GHash.IO decides 51% attack (the 2nd time) is not so bad.

Well I guess some peeps are heeding the call.  Down to 43% in the last 24 hours, though we really need GHash.io to be ideally below a third of the hashrate to be truly safe.

Any idea how much hashrate on Ghash.io is from their own private farm now?

Not sure their personal farm breakdown, but in total they have almost 40 PH based on Organofcorti.blogspot.com (http://Organofcorti.blogspot.com).

Mining on this pool is like taking a shit in your own water reservoir.  A little don't matter but pile it on and you'll be killing yourself.

Are you blaming them because of insolvency or something like that or are you just affraid that they will abuse their powers?

They have abused their powers.  They have been caught double spending by their admins before and they stated they knew nothing about it, then they recanted and said it wasn't a big deal.  That alone proves they're willing to lie to the community.

The fact that at least 1/4 of the community is worried about their centralization and they have not taken any good faith efforts to control this (unlike BTCGuild who actually throttled their own growth) shows their arrogant assholes.

I'm surprised there hasn't been a massive DDoS...

This is getting serious and the miners don't understand if Bitcoin goes down everything they had mined will be worth nothing together with their out of pocket investment(ASIC, GPU, ETC). Come on let's make bitcoin better and stable by doing the right thing. At this point miners at that pool are as guilty as GHASH or probably more.

Down to 39%, but I won't entirely feel safe until they're closer to 30%:

https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hrs

At least either the pool operators themselves are reacting to the outrage, or some miners are wising up.

Probably a combination of both.  We must all remain vigilant though.  Keep reminding our fellow miners, and if you see anyone in this forum post stats or references to GHash, please ask them kindly to GTFO there.   8)

Emphasis on kindly!  :D

It's great to see the community actually heeding the call.

Its par for the course I figure, a natural economy will periodically destroy itself.   In capitalism its supposed to be the most unproductive elements become redundant (so its positive progression).   Call it stupidity but its probably right in line that this kind of thing happens, its more accurate to say positive feedback where a situation is inclined towards failure by its own success.  

This is why the FED exists they will tell you, to stop boom and bust cycles, to counter natural failure.  So these giant pools are tending towards bust by their own (over)success and its normal?  BTC needs a firebreak of some kind to stop that situation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

And just like that GHash.IO is at it again.  Up to 44% rather quickly today:

https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hrs


This madness must stop somehow, they're out of control... 

wtf do people continue to believe those %'s?

you seriously think they're tagging all their blocks?

not all of it is on a public pool

I know they've been having issues over the last couple days. Not sure how much of it is "irritate the users til they leave" or if they're trying to shift some of their server farm somewhere else (private pool perhaps?) ... or maybe they just don't care. I recently sold my GHS to help fund a new S2, but til the pool shrinks a bit I've been on eligius with my s1's.

Let the miners decide where they want to mine.

I understand the concerns and I have my own but interference is not good.

Interference is worse than regulation.

Miners should be able to decide where to mine, but make an educated logical decision when doing so, however.

It's not interference, it's awareness.  GHash.Io is a plague on this community and to the network.

They've already been caught double spending in 2013.  Google Ghash.io and Betcoin Dice and you'll see a ton of results.

Nothing good can come out of trusting those shady operators.

I also get tons of results when I google "homeopathy works" but that doesn't mean it actually works.

You don't believe their statement that they traced the culprit down to someone in the old development team? See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=327767.msg3590902#msg3590902

If you trust GHash.IO will do the right thing, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you for Nigerian princes.   :P

I'm fresh out of Nigerian princes... would you take some BFL gear that's guaranteed to ship in two weeks?  :D

No, I don't believe them.

The Bitcoin community had already traced it to them weeks before their flimsy cover-up statement. They denied it, they lied about it, they laughed about it in emails, then they admitted it.

This is true.  I think we have observed that the majority of their pool is in fact privately owner.  When they have downtime less than 15PH was coming offline.

As many have pointed out before, ghash.io has the best pool to point your hardware at because they've got the most useful features, and I think their popularity says it all.

Some features are, I would imagine, easy for other pools to implement such as being able to split your auto-payouts to multiple wallets on a percentage basis, something that's only attractive to large-scale multi-party operations.

If I was in cex.io's position I wouldn't dare double-spend, but then again I wouldn't start a ponzi scheme on wall street but that doesn't stop perfectly intelligent & sane individuals form doing it anyway because greed & power are the most addictive drugs you on earth.

For Bitcoin's sake, don't mine at the largest pool.

I am :) too lazy to switch.

Well, maybe this monetary system is not as great as we all think.

Ghash is playing entirely within the parameters allowed by the system.

We need a pool operator to set up and offer 0%

Which person is going to support other people's mining endeavors at his/her own wallet's expense?  None that I know of (at least on a large scale).

We need to educate the retards who are pushing the public part of GHash.IO to 50% to get off that pool.

Save 1% in fees and mine a dead coin  ???

There are lots of 0% pool out there.

God damn those fuckers!  I don't trust them one bit...

http://i61.tinypic.com/2aaa82a.png




These guys better come up with a good solution for this soon...

GHash should not allow over 40% of the net, period.
They should either redirect the hash to other multipools, then payout,
or raise their fees constantly to get people to leave when over 40%.
I only mined with them during their LTC promo, and now Coinotron has
the same problem going on with LTC.  I personally use many good multi
pools.  One of the best is in my sig.

They could franchise their operation but I guess people like this large pool because it has the most regular payouts, lowest variance.


My thought on ghash is that it could be or would be the best fifth column attack on BTC possible for the least effort and money.   The smartest maybe quickest way to defeat an enemy is to have them destroy themselves.   So if the head of ghash could subvert, deliberately provoking this problem then at the right time he has the power to undermine the whole network and destroy everything.

 All it takes is maybe a 1 million bribe to the head or admin even of ghash and thats how bitcoin died?    Maybe its possible to even make back that 1 million, maybe visa pays this money to thwart a rival maybe the nsa, 1 mill is pocket change especially if it can be offset against future benefits.    Corporate espionage isnt fiction, why wouldnt someone want to kill it

wonder how much percent of the unknown belongs to ghash -.-

24 h hashrate of GH is 43% again, so stop worrying.

Even if they have 51% for a short time, they would have to actively want to do something malicious in order to cause any harm.

I am wondering why nobody is building an equally awesome pool so there will be less problems in the future.

There are many equally awesome pools.
BTCGuild which even though it charges a fee it pays miners transaction fees so in the end I make more there than at ghash.
Eligius has 0% fees and great statistical information.
NastyPool is a P2Pool with 0% fees and has the best implimentation of P2Pool I have tried to date.
There are many better options.  
The problem is people are dazzled by a shiny web interface and supposed 0% fee.  ghash does not pay miners TX fees so they make a ton off your mining.  As Bitcoin continues to be more and more widely used those fees will grow and eventually outgrow the mining reward.  If you think ghash will ever give you that you are mistaken.

You are misinformed.

Ghash pays transaction fees too, aswell as merged mining.

If somebody sets up a p2pool node with ~0,5% fees and merged mining i would be in though.

If they pay the TX fees that is news to me.  Last I knew they did not.
BTCG merge mines as well.  Eligius does as well.
NastyPool is working on adding it.
There are plenty of other pools that do as well.

eligius merged mining doesn´t work anymore, as it doesn´t accept nmc adresses.

GH.io pays TX fees, merged mines 3 or 4 coins, has no fees.

If there is another pool like that out there, many would switch.

Many p2pool operators merge-mine.  I do.  Mdude77 does.  Also, a bunch of us have committed to donating the proceeds from merge mining right back into p2pool, so every miner benefits.  Hunterbunter created an easy-to-use donation tool that donates to p2pool miners.

The only difficulty is that the merge mining payouts are not automated.  We are manually converting them to BTC on whatever exchanges, and then donating the BTC.

Screw low Variance.  I've mined a couple more BTC than I should have by taking a risk on Slush.

Our pool luck has hovered at around 115% for the last month and a half at least.

Pool luck (1 day, 7 days, 30 days): 123%, 107%, 114%

Maybe some of you other kids with a few Terrahash can nut up and take the plunge on potential payouts like above, eh?

Bravo on Bitcoin industrial mining giant, Bitfury, for moving off of Ghash.IO!

This is what we need more of.  More of the big fish and whales moving off that pool, as small time miners, though valiant, won't make a noticeable dent in overall hashrate like when a company the size of Bitfury does it.

http://www.coindesk.com/bitfury-pulls-power-ghash-community-uproar/


They're an asic manufacturer that mines for themselves and never hid it, but at least their actions moving off Ghash is a big time win for all of us.  Kudos Bitfury!

It looks like the recent Distributed Denial of Service attack on the system got some miners moving
That or the site was down for me
https://blockchain.info/pools?timespan=24hrs

Seems to be down to 35% hope that it stays around there and does not happen to rise up again

I am convinced Ghash is purposely trying to hit the 51% mark, I dont understand it all, but in order to be  a member of Ghash you have sign up in their CEX.Io exchange, I dont like that, then from what I could tell they are renting your hashrate, It is very confusing, and seems like a circle of monopoly they want to run. I think at this point the people joining them are the ones who want to see that 51% hit just to see if they can make the coin fail. I guess you can battle against the stupid and ignorant, It would not surprise me to see that barclays bank or JP Morgan were the funding behind Ghash.io to be honest with you. those 2 places more than any want to see the bitcoin fail and be wiped off the face of finances forever.

GHASH offer alot of nice shiny perks. Not to mention following the heard. "Oh, 50% of people mine with GHASH? I'm gonna mine there!" Mentality. IMO. ;D

When you don't have a pool operator communicating on a regular basis with the community like Bitminter's or BTCG's pool ops you can't really understand the intentions of the pool.  Why people would lend them their hashing power just to make a few more satoshis is beyond me.  As I said before it's like tossing away $5 to get a couple of pennies.

I think they should reach 51% mining and seriously screw up BTC, at least temporarily, because this will happen:

1. BTC price will take a huge lumpkin dive.

2. Then while the price is low low low, I will buy lots of BTC and hold.

3. Then when the price recovers, I will cash out for a huge profit.

This is a great plan!  51% BTC, Ghash pool!

What country is an .io name extension from?

eleuthria of BTCG is always on here interacting and giving out info.  He does it in many threads both for BTCG and Scrypt Guild as well as in the Eligius thread recently as well about the block denial attack.

I have a good server, I someone can help me setup an miningpool script I can offer 0 % fee :)

I'm sure they have all these PH/s due to their own data centers, not regular miners :)

British Indian Ocean territory, or also used by Internet Startups and IT organizations because it's an abbreviation for Input/Output.

I totally agree, I think some powerful banking industry is behind this. They want 51% and when they get it, BTC will be destroyed. I'm sure they have themselves invested in a way that they make money on the crash as well.

this is a serious threat to BTC, and more people need to do more about it, we need strong leadership on this.

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