Bitcoin Forum

He’s known as Bitcoin Jesus in the world of cyber-currencies. Though he can’t promise you heaven, he is offering a haven: a condo in the Caribbean that comes with a new passport and almost zero taxes.

Meet Roger Ver, ex-U.S. citizen, ex-convict, millionaire investor, self-described libertarian and founder of Passports for Bitcoin.com.

The ever-expanding universe of what you can buy with bitcoins includes a hotel stay in Rome, a kimono in Tokyo, and cable TV in the U.S. Ver, a pioneer investor in bitcoin startups, now says he can add citizenship to the list.

Specifically, that’s the right to live in the Federation of St. Kitts and Nevis, two sun-kissed islands a three-hour flight from Miami. St. Kitts has run an invest-and-become-a-citizen program since 1984, making it the oldest of its kind, says the country’s website.

Plunk down $400,000 for real estate and you get a passport that allows visa-free travel to 120 countries. There are no taxes on personal income or capital gains and the islands’ restrictive disclosure laws offer shelter from outside scrutiny, according to the Tax Justice Network, a think tank that studies secrecy jurisdictions.

Ver’s website, in English, Russian and Chinese, offers a way to purchase a piece of that paradise with bitcoins. He says it will help people who are hemmed in by government restrictions on cash transactions.

“I’m going to China next month to explain to people that bitcoin is the easiest way to pay for things outside the country,” Ver said during a meeting this month at the plush 51st floor lounge of Tokyo’s Roppongi Hills.

Trader, Hacker, Boxer

A trim 35-year-old with a crew cut, in a black polo shirt and slacks, Ver looked a little like an electronics salesman at a big-box retailer. Still, a crowd of followers hung on his every word. A former derivatives trader at Goldman Sachs Group Inc., a hacker, and a professional boxer were all there to pitch ideas or talk bitcoin with the master.

Ver got rich investing in bitcoin early and has become a regular speaker at industry conferences. He’s provided seed funds for a dozen prominent startups including Kraken, an exchange where people buy and sell the digital currency, and Blockchain, an online wallet used to store it.

Bitcoin was invented in 2008 as a currency that could be used without government oversight. That’s drawn people who want to trade illicit goods like drugs and guns. It’s also gained support from libertarians like Peter Thiel, the billionaire co-founder of PayPal who plans to build an artificial island where people can do whatever they want. Ver’s passport site, his latest venture, is a scaled down version of that ideal.

Evade Taxes

“St. Kitts’ government is much more libertarian compared with the U.S.,” Ver said. “It’s not even close. So all these early bitcoin adopters, of course if they have the means, they’d rather be a citizen of St. Kitts.”

However they pay to get in, people usually seek out countries like St. Kitts so they can evade taxes, says John Christensen, director of the Tax Justice Network. The U.S. Treasury Department last month said the island’s passports are being used to facilitate financial crime.

“To be blunt, we talk about places like St. Kitts as places where you go to escape from responsibilities,” Christensen, an expert on tax havens, said by phone from London. “St. Kitts sells secrecy on the international market and, unsurprisingly, attracts all types of dirty money.”

Gaining Citizenship

Erasmus Williams, press secretary for St. Kitts, didn’t respond to phone calls or e-mailed questions about the Citizenship-By-Investment program.

A woman who answered the phone at the Office of the Prime Minister said the program is “not a matter of buying passports, it’s about gaining citizenship.”

Nonetheless, no residency or visit is needed, just that $400,000 investment -- re-sellable after five years -- or a non-refundable $250,000 donation to the country, according to St. Kitts’s official website.

For those who don’t get the message the first time, the site repeats in bold print: “No personal visit required.”

Still, wealthy Chinese have a tough time buying in because government limits on money transfers stop them from sending more than $50,000 worth of cash overseas each year.

“The processing agent in St. Kitts told me he feels bad for all of his Chinese clients,” Ver said. “They have to reach out to all different friends and relatives and get them to all send the money in drips and drabs. Bitcoin solves all of that.”

Anonymous Ledger

That’s because it was designed to be anonymous. While an online public ledger stores every single Bitcoin transaction, the entries don’t include the names and addresses required for bank accounts.

In practical terms, a person in Beijing can buy bitcoins at home through BTC China, OKCoin or numerous other exchanges. With a few swipes on a smartphone, the money can then be beamed to St. Kitts with no government on Earth the wiser.

The U.S. lost its allure for Ver after he was sentenced to 10 months in federal prison after selling about 14 pounds of explosive without a license on the EBay auction site. The product, “Pest Control Report 2000,” was basically a firecracker to scare birds away from cornfields, Ver says.

Locked Up

“I didn’t do anything wrong. I didn’t hurt anybody. I had nothing but happy customers and the U.S. government locked me in a cage because of that,” he said. “So I want nothing to do with those people. I don’t want to support them. I want them out of my life.”

Ver moved to Tokyo after finishing probation in 2006. He got his St. Kitts passport on Feb. 13, 2014, and abandoned his U.S. citizenship by the end of the month.

“I would have done it the same day if I could,” he said. “They told me I had to have a one-week cooling-off period. They said, ‘Did you know if you renounce citizenship, you won’t be able to serve in the armed forces?’ It was like, ‘darn.’”

Although Ver’s computer parts business made him a millionaire by the time he was 25, the real money came after he bought tens of thousands of bitcoins in 2011. They cost about $1 each then. Today they trade at about $601, according to the CoinDesk price index.

Bitcoin Evangelist

Ver said he earned his moniker, Bitcoin Jesus, by telling anyone who would listen about bitcoin well before other venture capital companies paid any attention to the digital currency.

One of the people who got a dose of Ver’s sermons was the agent who processed his application for citizenship, Paul Bilzerian. Bilzerian is a former corporate raider who moved to St. Kitts after long battles with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission and two stints in prison for securities fraud and conspiracy to defraud the government of millions.

The two men bonded over the belief they’d been targeted by U.S. authorities, according to Ver. Together, they started passportsforbitcoin.com in April, Ver said.

Bilzerian, who is one of several-dozen licensed government processers in St. Kitts, declined to comment in an e-mail.

Their website says a second passport insulates you from governments that intrude on citizen’s lives. The site also has testimonials from Ver and Bilzerian’s son, Dan, a 30-something professional poker player with millions of followers on Instagram, where he posts pictures of himself with half-naked women, along with his gun collection. He didn’t respond to e-mailed questions forwarded through his press agent.

“I value freedom more than almost anything else and a second or third passport provides me insurance just in case the U.S. government decides to value security over freedom,” Bilzerian’s son writes on the passport website.

It will be I while before I can afford this, but St. Kitts looks like something close to a true Libertarian paradise.
bitcointalk.org forum probably has at least a couple active members already living there.

Maybe Snowden will finally be able to travel. Perhaps we should set up a kickstarter to raise the $250k?

Damn, i need to get more BTC...i want this!

He just needs to find way to get out of that building w/o getting arrested. Another citizenship cant save him as long as he's on land of country that wants to arrest him.

"The ever-expanding universe of what you can buy with bitcoins includes a hotel stay in Rome, a kimono in Tokyo, and cable TV in the U.S. Ver, a pioneer investor in bitcoin startups, now says he can add citizenship to the list".

What quality writing.

enjoyed this coinbuddy, thanks

Roger Ver is a big hero of mine

Is anyone familiar with the ease of setting up a corporation in St Kitts?

Nice read, this guy sounds awesome. What a pioneer

I guess I'm the only guy who heads to the comments section after reading articles  ;D

Everyone is using this article as an example to prove that only crooks are involved in Bitcoin.  

Hyperfocusing on his strange need to sell explosives (little as they may have been) on Ebay.   For scaring birds away or not.  Doesn't seem to sway people's "duh" factor as far as it being a really stupid idea.  In that regard I agree with them.   But its a bummer they're using this article to prove that Bitcoins "Jesus" is just another Ex Con.  

Totally cracked up with the "You wont be able to serve in the armed forces" ..... "Darn" paragraph.  LOL!

-B-

well keep following that guy and you will lose everything...well if you didn't already (you know the I give my word that everything is cool with gox video)

Although the "Pest Control Report 2000" were nominally intended to scare birds, from the descriptions I have found in the net they were rather hefty "firecrackers" (with 10-20x the current maximum allowed amount of explosive) that probably would do quite a bit of damage if exploded in someone's hands.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv3Wvxi6pgU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv3Wvxi6pgU)  Presumably it was not only farmers who were interested in it, e.g.: http://www.undergroundozarks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1917 (http://www.undergroundozarks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1917)

Good reminder, I somehow missed that in the past. You are saying Roger Ver publicly claimed everything was fine at Gox?

He recorded a video at MTgox offices visit saying after looking to documents presented to him by Mark that everything is OK and he followed asking everyone to calm down and summed up gox issues to them only having some complications with their bank... after gox filled for bankruptcy protection he deleted that video and posted another one (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRIJ_jpmwzo)

once he tweeted about the biggest threat to Bitcoin and I replied (https://twitter.com/mmitech/status/440097866061586432) that I think that people like him are the biggest threat to Bitcoin.

Much of that does sound familiar, but I'd forgotten that it was Roger doing the "inspection".
Sounds to me like the ‘Bitcoin Jesus’ asks people to really practice their faith.  ....lol?

Interesting.  Yeah.  Bad judgment to say the least.  But the simple fact is that many folks in this scene are simply "anti authority".  So they will do inflammatory things that land them in jail, and then claim to be victims.  Ver is probably one of the best voices in the BTC community right now though.  He's second only to Andreas in ability to articulate Bitcoin in public speeches (just my opinion based on podcasts / panels I've listened to).  I guess I just shake my head confusingly upon hearing that he was selling explosives on eBay, and hope for better conduct in the future.  A certain amount of anti-government / anti-establishmentarianism is to be expected in the Bitcoin world.  Each person can make his own decisions for himself.  

-B-

So let me get this straight - the idea is you extract wealth (by luck or crook) from your home nation - the home nation then either requires that you pay something back via local taxation or places limits on the amounts of local currency (ie.wealth) that you can convert and move out of your home nation (or both) - you then, with fox like cunning, convert your accumulated wealth/local currency into Bitcoin - you then buy into St. Kitts with a BTC equivalent minimum investment of $250k. Is this correct ?

     What a wanker. Bitcoin Jesus ? Don't make me laugh. Jesus said the meek shall inherit the Earth - not that selfish twats that don't wish to give something back shall abuse a revolutionary and potentially benevolent technology to feather their own nests.

So let me get this straight:
You do not see any Gov't in the world that steals too much of its' own peoples money?

I don't think the US "steals" enough to be honest given its $1.3 trillion debt to the Chinese   ;).

The point is that the nouveau riche Chinese who are contemplating the Bitcoin Jesus's way forward should know that they are burning their bridges - no way home for them, while the BJ happily skims off the top of their converted Renminbi stash. But not so for the US tax exile - shit, he'll probably still be, quite legally, creaming it off the fat of the land from his US investment portfolio and from the people of the US.
    This isn't what Satoshi's white paper was about for me - but I guess we can't change human nature.

Still, there isn't any point in encouraging, advocating and facilitating our base instincts is there ?

that's cool and all, but he's selling it as a tropical paradise? as far as i know, there is no such thing as a paradise on earth.. wherever you go, you'll find humans doing shitty things to each other and misery that comes along with it.

Is there a paradise on earth?
One week per year in the hot desert you will find a type of paradise, started years ago by a Libertarian. At the "Burning Man" festival you will not find hardly any "humans doing shitty things to each other".

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/burning090312/s_b03_RTR37ACT.jpg

i don't think there is a paradise on earth, because in the realm of earth.. shitty things can happen to you, and great things can as well. for me, living in a start of partying is not heaven. after partying for a while, it begins to feel empty for me.

i was once in pattaya (thailand), where horny dudes had shirts that said "forget heaven, i'm going to pattaya when i die). you'd have to ignore the starving lady with 2 kids living on the street corner, begging for money.. or you'd have to ignore the 70 year old dudes who are trying to hang onto their youth by having a 20 year old in his arms.

I call the Burning Man festival a type of paradise because large numbers of people gather in a free environment and there is rarely violence or unwanted aggression between people.


Partying is optional, it is a place where you don't need 'help' to feel good.  :)

i've met a few people who have been, but i have not been to one myself. maybe someday. it's too late to get some tickets now though huh? i hear it sells out really fast.

Roger Ver another founding member of the Bitcoin Foundation along with Charlie Shrem and Mark Karpeles. So are all six founders of TBF criminals or just half of them?

https://github.com/pmlaw/The-Bitcoin-Foundation-Legal-Repo/blob/master/Bylaws/Bylaws_of_The_Bitcoin_Foundation.md

ha, i don't know much about roger, but he's a self-proclaimed "angel investor." but it's kind of hard to keep a good reputation when your name is attached to mark karpeles and the other members of the foundation.

at the same time, it's probably not fair to make him guilty by association.

True, tickets are very hard to get and it sells out really fast. You can find some on eBay, but usually not for the original prices.

This is something that I don't think the Bitcoin community should get involved in.

This is very similar to tax evasion.

When people start using bitcoin for evading taxes at that level governments will put more effort into trying to regulate and hurt it

i think it's going to happen either way. i know everyone says fiat provides people with the same advantages as btc (to evade taxes and do otherwise seedy things), but bitcoin provides a unique quality to do these things.

No, no, this is great for main stream adoption! I've been trying to get my friends into Bitcoin for years. They have repeatedly told me I'm nuts for being involved in such a high risk investment. This is just what I need to tell them to ensure that they never speak to me again.

There is nothing illegal about it. Renouncing the citizenship of one country, and taking another passport is perfectly legal, and it has been going on for many decades now. Roger Ver is not the first person to do that.  ;D

I wish I had half a million laying around, I would love to live there. :)

An island would be much better than central Texas I suppose forgetting out the tax stuff for a second.

The USA has gone downhill slowly in terms of personal freedoms and privacy. The "Land of the free" bravado has long sense died. :(

Trust me, there are more affordable options around if you are really interested in this. Check this:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101198433

Dominican citizenship is available for around $100,000 and the Latvian Passport is available for just $96,000. The Cambodian passport is even cheaper, at $70,000.

Nice, I still don't have anywhere near that, but maybe one day I could do it. Until then I guess I'll just have to deal with it!

I think that alot of people on this board will become citizens of St. Kitts, 200k is not too big a deal for the benefits.

Agreed. And I have some good news for you. A few days ago, the Caribbean nation of Antigua and Barbuda has also started a cash-for-citizenship offer (Fees is around $250,000). Antigua is very near to St Kitts, and the Antiguan passport will enable you with visa-free travel to more than 130 countries, including most of the EU.  ;D

The nice thing with the St Kitts program is you spend the $400k to buy real estate and you can sell it again in 5 years so you are essentially investing in real estate there which may appreciate, or at least won't lose all its value and then you can get it back later.  So if you don't mind having your money tied up for 5 years, it is a good deal.  IF you are looking for that kind of thing. 

If you think about it, its just a ponzi scheme.

Btw, Roger Ver is a fraudster and scammer. The MtGox fiasco proved this. I've warned ppl on here many times b4 MtGox went south.

I can strongly say hes in it with Marks.

Competition is great, perhaps in the future we will see lower fees for a new life in paradise?

He may be, but the program itself is what I was speaking about. They've been doing it for 30+ years and the real estate on st kitts is comparably priced with other islands in the Caribbean, so you have some indication of the value there. 

The bitcoin and passports thing is a separate issue. :-)

If bitcoin truly goes to the moon that island will be stuffed with bit coiners. I hope to be among them.

Eccentric Bitcoin fanatics follow their 'Jesus' to a secluded tropical cult fortress!
^^^The popular media will never try to spin this against us.  :D 

All right kids, have fun -- but please promise that you will not drink the Kool-Aid in the end.  ;)

If you are going to invest in that area regardless of the passport incentive then St Kitts is a great place to go. Using bitcoin would help you raise the public awareness of bitcoin (large actual transactions) however it could backfire on bitcoin by associating it with tax evasion

(Of coarse the media can be deceptive, but...)
If you legally live in a country funded by fees and there are no taxes, then how is that "tax evasion"?

All those damn American BTC millionaires up and defected from USSA and are held up in penthouses on a secluded island in the Caribbean. And, They never payed their fair share.
^Future leftist class warfare talking points to get the drones behind droning the new aristocrats. ;D

+1.   Sounds about right.

I have never tried dumpster diving, but that is one alternative way to avoid taxes.
Quite a large step down from tropical paradise, but at least the drones will not bomb me.

I have travelled to these islands with a girl that I was dating. It is absolutely amazing. But once I got there, I never wanted to leave. It would be difficult to up and move there if you ate married with kids, but if you are single, or just have a girlfriend, it would be an awesome place to move. It ID also very green worth opportunities to start businesses, are they don't have many of the businesses that most cities have.

Did not know Roger Ver was a Goldmanite ??

Did he work at Goldmans before or after he went to prison.

Or is someone  getting a little confused with Fred Ehrsam

https://www.linkedin.com/in/fredehrsam

Well now we know the 'end game' for the folks running Butterfly Labs....change citizenship and run there...(always wondered what there long term plan was)

Searing

I don't think it's that simple. I'm pretty sure if he tries to go to most countries US agents will be waiting for him with handcuffs(and possibly worse).

I wonder what the extradition laws are like there? Maybe we can get all the criminal Bitcoiners convinced to move there starting with Karpeles. Shortly after they all arrive a mysterious ground water anthrax incident wipes out everyone on the island. How hard could it be? The island is only 18 miles long and about 5.0 miles across. Their will probably be a mysterious outbreak on Nevis too, just in case.

They have to call them "tax havens" because if you were to call it "a country with no taxes" liberals would claim that such a place cannot exist except in Somalia.

What abort da roadsh!!?!???!!?

I think the island does have taxes but only on income that is produced in the country and capital gains are not taxed.

thats a little bit crazy ;)

Out of interest, how many people think this article and news is beneficial for Bitcoin and it's future?
Personally, I think a lot of people in the UK would read this as "Bitcoin facilitating tax evasion. Bitcoin millionaire with lots of money encouraging other to pay money to him to avoid paying taxes."
Not sure about the U.S., but over in the UK, I think that is a bad message to be sending out, given the current witch hunt surrounding corporate tax payment over here at least

Also, why is paying $400k to some shady country who suggests you don't even visit them, any better than paying some shady country $340,000 who will let you stay there, provide (albeit questionably) roads, educations, social care etc?

Okay, so you can say "well this service is only for rich people who would save money" - how is that any better? "If you're rich, we'll help you prevent paying tax" - well what about all those people that need the most financial help, those who aren't rich?

I know a lot of people here are against tax, and that's fine. But I also thought people here were against the promotion of mentality "those with enough money get to join a special club where it's okay to exclude those less fortunate". How is that mentality any better than the mentality of corrupt bankers and politicians?

You are not actually paying the 400k to the country, you are only investing 400k in the country (the OP article has people investing in real estate) and would own the investment. You only need to keep your investment for 5 years. If your investment strategy is to invest in real estate in similar places this would not be as bad of an idea.

That would be funny if it weren't so true.