Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Technical Support => Topic started by: LYCAN on June 18, 2014, 06:30:21 AM



Title: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: LYCAN on June 18, 2014, 06:30:21 AM
Hi there i am new at forum but not new at bitcoin..

I am seeing that the difficulty of bitcoin is increasing very fastly .. well i want to know is there any way that the difficulty can be stopped growing?

I mean if the owner of bitcoin satoshi nakamoto can stop the increasing of difficulty of bitcoin or not?

And why it is going any good reason? i just know it increase because of mining..


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: ranochigo on June 18, 2014, 07:12:23 AM
Hi there i am new at forum but not new at bitcoin..

I am seeing that the difficulty of bitcoin is increasing very fastly .. well i want to know is there any way that the difficulty can be stopped growing?

I mean if the owner of bitcoin satoshi nakamoto can stop the increasing of difficulty of bitcoin or not?

And why it is going any good reason? i just know it increase because of mining..
No, no one can stop the increment of difficulty. The difficulty is adjusted every 2016 blocks based on the time it took to find the previous 2016 blocks. If the hashrates is lower, the time taken to generate a block is slower, if the hashrate is higher, the time taken will be faster. The target of the time taken is 10minutes, it will adjust accordingly based on the speed of block generation. In order to stop the difficulty from growing, you will have to stop people from operating new ASIC miners and for it to decrease, people would have to shut down their ASIC. The increment of Bitcoin difficulty and block time is built into the protocol itself, unless it is forked, it is not possible to change it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: DannyHamilton on June 18, 2014, 02:10:58 PM
Hi there i am new at forum but not new at bitcoin..

I am seeing that the difficulty of bitcoin is increasing very fastly .. well i want to know is there any way that the difficulty can be stopped growing?

ranochigo already did a good job of explaining that the only way to keep the difficulty from growing is to stop all miners from turning on new equipment (or to collectively only turn on as much hash power as they turn off).  The only way to reduce difficulty is to get all miners collectively miners to turn off more hash power than they turn on.

I mean if the owner of bitcoin satoshi nakamoto can stop the increasing of difficulty of bitcoin or not?

Satoshi Nakamoto was the original creator of the Bitcoin protocol.  He released it into the public as open source software.  There is no "owner".  Anyone that wants to can run the software, and anyone that wants to can modify the copy of the software that they run.  The only way to change how the bitcoin protocol behaves is to convince EVERYBODY running the software to run different software that has different rules.

And why it is going any good reason?

Because of mining.

i just know it increase because of mining..

Oh.  You already knew that.  Ok.  Look back at ranochigo's post.  If that doesn't make it clear, let us know and I'll see if I can re-explain it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: PPOsales on June 19, 2014, 11:36:05 AM
It's going way too fast because there are so many miners today. I came into the mining game in mid March when the difficulty was 3,8xxxx, just a short 90 days ago. Mining hardware is now more affordable than it was just 5-6 months ago. It's a double edged sword. :/


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: nwfella on June 21, 2014, 12:29:19 AM
Nope.  And why is it going?  Newer, more efficient hardware and this trend will continue for sometime imho


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: googlemaster1 on June 21, 2014, 09:09:55 PM
Satoshi can lower the difficulty whenever he wants ;)


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: DannyHamilton on June 21, 2014, 10:12:29 PM
Satoshi can lower the difficulty whenever he wants ;)

You're going to confuse the newbies.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: nwfella on June 22, 2014, 08:57:58 AM
Satoshi can lower the difficulty whenever he wants ;)

You're going to confuse the newbies.
Heck he had me confused till you chimed in there mister ;)


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: DubFX on June 22, 2014, 09:05:48 AM
Satoshi can lower the difficulty whenever he wants ;)

You're going to confuse the newbies.
Heck he had me confused till you chimed in there mister ;)
How could he do so? He can't? 51% of the network would have to use new client with edited diff in order to make this possible, no?


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: amaclin on June 22, 2014, 02:05:03 PM
Satoshi can lower the difficulty whenever he wants ;)

You're going to confuse the newbies.
In fact, Satoshi can sell his bitcoins. This can affect the cost of bitcoins and difficulty.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: Dare on June 23, 2014, 01:30:58 AM
Satoshi can lower the difficulty whenever he wants ;)

You're going to confuse the newbies.
In fact, Satoshi can sell his bitcoins. This can affect the cost of bitcoins and difficulty.

Satoshi announcing a major flaw in bitcoin or claiming it to be worthless could have a similar effect, though after the amount of work he's put into it that's extremely unlikely (far more so than him simply reappearing and using some of the coins he mined).


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: Cranky4u on June 23, 2014, 01:58:51 AM
Satoshi can lower the difficulty whenever he wants ;)

You're going to confuse the newbies.
Heck he had me confused till you chimed in there mister ;)
How could he do so? He can't? 51% of the network would have to use new client with edited diff in order to make this possible, no?
No, Satshosi has the power of veto within the depth of the Bitcoin prototcol. It is a little known sub-routine hard coded into cryptographic layers themselves and is known as the 'Kobayashi Maru subroutine'. If the Satsh unlocks it or adjusts it, the difficulty can be overcome releasing all 21million BTC in a shower of electronic love.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: trand on June 23, 2014, 07:21:58 AM
Bitcoin Difficult can stop increase if no one mining Bitcoin again
because i guess difficult speed depend of how many miner


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: ranochigo on June 23, 2014, 07:25:24 AM
Bitcoin Difficult can stop increase if no one mining Bitcoin again
because i guess difficult speed depend of how many miner
Actually, it is impossible for everyone to stop mining bitcoin. If no one mines it difficulty will decrease, difficulty will stay constant if the hashrates stays constant. Hashrates affect the network, not the amount of miners, one miner can have a few PH and increasing it every month and the difficulty will still increase.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: Cranky4u on June 23, 2014, 10:15:46 AM
You are all WRONG...King Satoshi can play a trump card of sparkling virtual unicorn cream across the entire blockchain thereby proving the lube for digits to freely explore the crypto-chain of unlimited BTC love


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: zimmah on June 23, 2014, 11:17:54 AM
Satoshi can lower the difficulty whenever he wants ;)

You're going to confuse the newbies.
Heck he had me confused till you chimed in there mister ;)
How could he do so? He can't? 51% of the network would have to use new client with edited diff in order to make this possible, no?
No, Satshosi has the power of veto within the depth of the Bitcoin prototcol. It is a little known sub-routine hard coded into cryptographic layers themselves and is known as the 'Kobayashi Maru subroutine'. If the Satsh unlocks it or adjusts it, the difficulty can be overcome releasing all 21million BTC in a shower of electronic love.

i'm pretty sure this is a joke

otherwise we would need to trust satoshi, and we'd trust the backdoor to never be found.

which is completely the opposite of what bitcoin represents.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: Cranky4u on June 23, 2014, 11:02:16 PM
Satoshi can lower the difficulty whenever he wants ;)

You're going to confuse the newbies.
Heck he had me confused till you chimed in there mister ;)
How could he do so? He can't? 51% of the network would have to use new client with edited diff in order to make this possible, no?
No, Satshosi has the power of veto within the depth of the Bitcoin prototcol. It is a little known sub-routine hard coded into cryptographic layers themselves and is known as the 'Kobayashi Maru subroutine'. If the Satsh unlocks it or adjusts it, the difficulty can be overcome releasing all 21million BTC in a shower of electronic love.

i'm pretty sure this is a joke

otherwise we would need to trust satoshi, and we'd trust the that my backdoor to never be found.

which is completely the opposite of what bitcoin represents.

Just helpiong with a correftion that follows the theme.  ;D


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: tuanvie on June 24, 2014, 02:46:26 PM
hi all.
The thoughts of my own,
if diff higher if someday bitcoin will still be mined?
of course, whether there might be a newer generation of hardware anymore?
sorry this is just mind I imagined, I was confused to this,
diff the higher the chance is getting no results to mine bitcoin


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: ranochigo on June 24, 2014, 02:50:41 PM
hi all.
The thoughts of my own,
if diff higher if someday bitcoin will still be mined?
of course, whether there might be a newer generation of hardware anymore?
sorry this is just mind I imagined, I was confused to this,
diff the higher the chance is getting no results to mine bitcoin
Obviously, if the difficulty is higher, more people would be mining. New ASICs and people with free electricity would come into the mining game. If no one is mining, the difficulty should drop.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: LYCAN on June 25, 2014, 11:52:58 AM
From above post i found a Question as he say that if no one mine the difficulty will drop down..? really .. then the miners have to stay afk for a week everyone.. and .. i fount some important information that .. on 2140 years the bitcoin mining will be ended so no new coin will be generated and the difficulty cannot be reversed.. There are 21million bitcoins are in the world successfully mined .. and 1.5 million or 1million btc is of satoshi nakamoto he is the owner of the bitcoin.. :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: ranochigo on June 25, 2014, 12:05:51 PM
From above post i found a Question as he say that if no one mine the difficulty will drop down..? really .. then the miners have to stay afk for a week everyone.. and .. i fount some important information that .. on 2140 years the bitcoin mining will be ended so no new coin will be generated and the difficulty cannot be reversed.. There are 21million bitcoins are in the world successfully mined .. and 1.5 million or 1million btc is of satoshi nakamoto he is the owner of the bitcoin.. :)
Not a week, 2 weeks since difficulty changes every two weeks. What do you mean by the difficulty cannot be reversed? I believe it will still continue to retarget even after 21million btc are mined.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: DannyHamilton on June 25, 2014, 01:07:24 PM
From above post i found a Question as he say that if no one mine the difficulty will drop down..? really

Correct.

More specifically, if it takes longer than 20160 minutes to mine 2016 blocks, then difficulty will drop down.

.. then the miners have to stay afk for a week everyone..

Good luck convincing all the miners to stop creating blocks and stop earning money.

and .. i fount some important information that .. on 2140 years the bitcoin mining will be ended

The process of hashing new blocks and confirming transactions will continue.  The blocks just won't contain an inflationary subsidy anymore.

so no new coin will be generated

Correct.

and the difficulty cannot be reversed..

???
What?
No.
That's not right.
Why did you think that?

There are 21million bitcoins are in the world successfully mined ..

Actually, a bit less than that, but it's close enough.

and 1.5 million or 1million btc is of satoshi nakamoto

Or more.  Or less.  It's really difficulty to say with certainty, but there is convincing evidence that he probably owns somewhere between 1 million and 1.5 million.

he is the owner of the bitcoin.. :)

He is the owner of SOME bitcoins.  Not all of them.  I am the owner of SOME bitcoins also.  Are you?


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: Kprawn on June 26, 2014, 11:35:10 AM
Can BTC core developers on BTC, make changes to the protocol, to change almost all the functions? Or are part of it off limits?

Who decide, what changes can be made? Bitcoin foundation?

If one organization can decide, what changes can be made to the protocol, can it not be corrupted?

Where can I find documentation on this, or a thread discussing this? I have read Satoshi's white paper, so I understand the concept, but not how it's applied.


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: amaclin on June 26, 2014, 12:08:44 PM
Can BTC core developers on BTC, make changes to the protocol, to change almost all the functions? Or are part of it off limits?
Anyone (including me and you) can make absolutely any change to a protocol. No limits at all.

The problem is - what part of the rest of world will accept our changes?


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: Kprawn on June 26, 2014, 12:35:33 PM
But the change you make to the protocol will only apply to you, and will not communicate to the blockchain. Someone decide what changes, must be done to the core protocol, and then it's send out, on forums like this, for general adoption. Who decide on those changes? The Bitcoin foundation or the Core developers?

Can you see where I am going with this?


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: bbeesley on June 27, 2014, 04:15:39 PM
Where can I find documentation on this, or a thread discussing this?

have you read through this?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Difficulty


Title: Re: Bitcoin (difficulty)
Post by: Ayers on June 30, 2014, 06:15:02 PM
Can BTC core developers on BTC, make changes to the protocol, to change almost all the functions? Or are part of it off limits?
Anyone (including me and you) can make absolutely any change to a protocol. No limits at all.

The problem is - what part of the rest of world will accept our changes?

if you are a big guy, a famous one, you could actually do it pretty easily, just spread the world to your friends, and you have tons of those friends