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Title: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: gondel on June 18, 2014, 11:21:31 AM Hello,
Today I spotted an article in a Bulgarian site for economics news, The topic is: "Bitcoin is about to collapse?" Here it is a link to the article: http://money.bg/news/id_1312273811/%D0%91%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD_%D0%B5_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D1%8A%D1%82_%D0%B4%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%B5_%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5 It is written in Bulgarian, but you can understand it by using the google translator. Should I be worried about this or author is just stupid saying that? BR Gondel Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: S4VV4S on June 18, 2014, 11:23:28 AM Hello, Today I spotted an article in a Bulgarian site for economics news, The topic is: "Bitcoin is about to collapse?" Here it is a link to the article: http://money.bg/news/id_1312273811/%D0%91%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD_%D0%B5_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D1%8A%D1%82_%D0%B4%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%B5_%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5 It is written in Bulgarian, but you can understand it by using the google translator. Should I be worried about this or author is just stupid saying that? BR Gondel Personally I would say that you should not worry about a 51% attack. That would be more destructing to the one performing it than beneficial. You should be more worried about the "media" (as you can see) and peoples reaction to it (as you have witnessed with the price drop). Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: LouReed on June 18, 2014, 11:38:29 AM Hello, Today I spotted an article in a Bulgarian site for economics news, The topic is: "Bitcoin is about to collapse?" Here it is a link to the article: http://money.bg/news/id_1312273811/%D0%91%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD_%D0%B5_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BF%D1%8A%D1%82_%D0%B4%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%B5_%D1%81%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B5 It is written in Bulgarian, but you can understand it by using the google translator. Should I be worried about this or author is just stupid saying that? BR Gondel Personally I would say that you should not worry about a 51% attack. That would be more destructing to the one performing it than beneficial. You should be more worried about the "media" (as you can see) and peoples reaction to it (as you have witnessed with the price drop). I wouldn't worry at all, at least not right now anyway. http://www.coindesk.com/ghash-io-never-launch-51-attack/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+CoinDesk+%28CoinDesk+-+The+Voice+of+Digital+Currency%29 http://blog.cex.io/ghash-io-51-percent/ Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: guybrushthreepwood on June 18, 2014, 12:02:49 PM Bitcoin isn't going to collapse because of this. It would probably only ever be a problem if some malicious entity gained 51% of the mining power.
Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: robmob on June 18, 2014, 12:03:47 PM You have nothing to worry about, just a bunch of whistle blowers trying to blow things out of proportion.
Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: gondel on June 18, 2014, 12:10:33 PM You have nothing to worry about, just a bunch of whistle blowers trying to blow things out of proportion. I think the same too. This guy from the article was may be forced from his boss to write something quick and to do it today or he is fired :DArticles like this only put a negative view on BTC and people who dont know about it will not trust it in the future.. BR Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: coinsolidation on June 18, 2014, 12:15:42 PM Quite the opposite, you should be pleased. Bitcoin encodes decentralization and democracy - an issue was noticed in a multi-billion dollar economy, and within hours people had voted with their miners and redistributed a vast amount of hardware resources to stabilize the economy. To me this is one of the pivotal moments of bitcoin so far, this democratic process implemented with such speed is impossible in almost every other avenue of life, and certainly every avenue which has centralization at it's core. It was a good day. Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: S4VV4S on June 18, 2014, 12:21:40 PM Quite the opposite, you should be pleased. Bitcoin encodes decentralization and democracy - an issue was noticed in a multi-billion dollar economy, and within hours people had voted with their miners and redistributed a vast amount of hardware resources to stabilize the economy. To me this is one of the pivotal moments of bitcoin so far, this democratic process implemented with such speed is impossible in almost every other avenue of life, and certainly every avenue which has centralization at it's core. It was a good day. Not true. People where still mining at GHash even after they reached 51%. It's the DDoS attack that caused the miners to move. Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: coinsolidation on June 18, 2014, 12:31:14 PM Quite the opposite, you should be pleased. Bitcoin encodes decentralization and democracy - an issue was noticed in a multi-billion dollar economy, and within hours people had voted with their miners and redistributed a vast amount of hardware resources to stabilize the economy. To me this is one of the pivotal moments of bitcoin so far, this democratic process implemented with such speed is impossible in almost every other avenue of life, and certainly every avenue which has centralization at it's core. It was a good day. Not true. People where still mining at GHash even after they reached 51%. It's the DDoS attack that caused the miners to move. DDoS or not, it was resolved democratically by the community. If some members took an action which prompted a resolution so be it, it worked - what I said still holds, this is a major situation resolved remarkably quicker than any other issue in any billion dollar company/org/economy we've ever seen in history. Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: S4VV4S on June 18, 2014, 12:32:37 PM Quite the opposite, you should be pleased. Bitcoin encodes decentralization and democracy - an issue was noticed in a multi-billion dollar economy, and within hours people had voted with their miners and redistributed a vast amount of hardware resources to stabilize the economy. To me this is one of the pivotal moments of bitcoin so far, this democratic process implemented with such speed is impossible in almost every other avenue of life, and certainly every avenue which has centralization at it's core. It was a good day. Not true. People where still mining at GHash even after they reached 51%. It's the DDoS attack that caused the miners to move. DDoS or not, it was resolved democratically by the community. If some members took an action which prompted a resolution so be it, it worked - what I said still holds, this is a major situation resolved remarkably quicker than any other issue in any billion dollar company/org/economy we've ever seen in history. True, can't argue with that. I was just making a correction :) Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: ljudotina on June 18, 2014, 12:33:29 PM OP....as you can see, price is going up even tho one pool had 51%, as if nothing happened. I think that should be enough to answer your question.
Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: ljudotina on June 18, 2014, 12:35:29 PM Quite the opposite, you should be pleased. Bitcoin encodes decentralization and democracy - an issue was noticed in a multi-billion dollar economy, and within hours people had voted with their miners and redistributed a vast amount of hardware resources to stabilize the economy. To me this is one of the pivotal moments of bitcoin so far, this democratic process implemented with such speed is impossible in almost every other avenue of life, and certainly every avenue which has centralization at it's core. It was a good day. Not true. People where still mining at GHash even after they reached 51%. It's the DDoS attack that caused the miners to move. No..Ghash moved part of their own hardware to another pool. Most people care only about one thing....returning their investment into bitcoin miner....and i cant blame them. DDos is not solution, nor is moving hardware from one pool in one's possesion to another pool in one's possesion. I'm afraid it needs to be dealt with on protocol level and it turns out that it's hard thing to fix... Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: S4VV4S on June 18, 2014, 12:38:08 PM Quite the opposite, you should be pleased. Bitcoin encodes decentralization and democracy - an issue was noticed in a multi-billion dollar economy, and within hours people had voted with their miners and redistributed a vast amount of hardware resources to stabilize the economy. To me this is one of the pivotal moments of bitcoin so far, this democratic process implemented with such speed is impossible in almost every other avenue of life, and certainly every avenue which has centralization at it's core. It was a good day. Not true. People where still mining at GHash even after they reached 51%. It's the DDoS attack that caused the miners to move. No..Ghash moved part of their own hardware to another pool. Most people care only about one thing....returning their investment into bitcoin miner....and i cant blame them. I think BitFury also withdrew 1PH (I think) from the hashing rates. That being said, why didn't they do it before it got to that? It is a serious question. Why didn't they start backing down when they were at 45% let's say? Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: coinsolidation on June 18, 2014, 12:45:34 PM I think BitFury also withdrew 1PH (I think) from the hashing rates. That being said, why didn't they do it before it got to that? It is a serious question. Why didn't they start backing down when they were at 45% let's say? I also wonder this, the simple answer is probably greed. However this has been coming for a long time, many months ago I was shocked and concerned that 6+ blocks could be found in a row by the pool in question. Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: LiteCoinGuy on June 18, 2014, 03:02:28 PM wow, with an activity of 252 you trust a bulgarian news site :o ? or is it irony?
if you think BTC is a secure investement (or invention) : sell now! Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: ljudotina on June 18, 2014, 03:04:11 PM Quite the opposite, you should be pleased. Bitcoin encodes decentralization and democracy - an issue was noticed in a multi-billion dollar economy, and within hours people had voted with their miners and redistributed a vast amount of hardware resources to stabilize the economy. To me this is one of the pivotal moments of bitcoin so far, this democratic process implemented with such speed is impossible in almost every other avenue of life, and certainly every avenue which has centralization at it's core. It was a good day. Not true. People where still mining at GHash even after they reached 51%. It's the DDoS attack that caused the miners to move. No..Ghash moved part of their own hardware to another pool. Most people care only about one thing....returning their investment into bitcoin miner....and i cant blame them. I think BitFury also withdrew 1PH (I think) from the hashing rates. That being said, why didn't they do it before it got to that? It is a serious question. Why didn't they start backing down when they were at 45% let's say? As some say, it was show off of power....i dont really know why didint they do something before it happened....They could have reject new miners etc...i dont know... Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: gondel on June 18, 2014, 03:56:53 PM wow, with an activity of 252 you trust a bulgarian news site :o ? or is it irony? Well I am Bulgarian and also this site is one of the biggest economics related sites in Bulgaria. But Yes for sure no Bulgarian knows as much as in US.if you think BTC is a secure investement (or invention) : sell now! BR Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: Willisius on June 18, 2014, 04:14:03 PM Quite the opposite, you should be pleased. Bitcoin encodes decentralization and democracy - an issue was noticed in a multi-billion dollar economy, and within hours people had voted with their miners and redistributed a vast amount of hardware resources to stabilize the economy. To me this is one of the pivotal moments of bitcoin so far, this democratic process implemented with such speed is impossible in almost every other avenue of life, and certainly every avenue which has centralization at it's core. It was a good day. It was closer to weeks than hours. Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: RixDollar on June 18, 2014, 04:25:48 PM Right now, no.
Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: redhawk979 on June 18, 2014, 04:33:57 PM DDoS isn't "democracy". Thats like shooting people and going "SEE DEMOCRACY?"
Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: phillipsjk on June 18, 2014, 04:51:13 PM I guess I am going to be a dissenter and say: yes, you should be worried.
The one thing that separates Bitcoin from VISA, Paypal and the Banks is the distributed transaction ledger. Anybody can add to the transaction ledger so long as the expend sufficient resources: termed "proof-of-work". Having mining concentration so concentrated breaks the design assumptions of the protocol. The first time this happened (with the DeepBit pool) self-regulation worked. This time, the culture appears to have changed. Instead of pulling their hash-power, many hashers are asking for a protocol change to mitigate the problem instead. Various developers have mentioned such emergency coding in the past, lending credence to that argument. However, in my opinion, if that comes pass: The Bitcoin experiment will have been a failure. How A Mining Monopoly Can Attack Bitcoin (http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/16/how-a-mining-monopoly-can-attack-bitcoin/) I also plan to complete selling half my BItcoin by Friday. I am selling half of my Bitcoin holdings because of Ghash (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654799.0) Two reasons:
Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: Willisius on June 18, 2014, 05:07:55 PM I guess I am going to be a dissenter and say: yes, you should be worried. The one thing that separates Bitcoin from VISA, Paypal and the Banks is the distributed transaction ledger. Anybody can add to the transaction ledger so long as the expend sufficient resources: termed "proof-of-work". Having mining concentration so concentrated breaks the design assumptions of the protocol. The first time this happened (with the DeepBit pool) self-regulation worked. This time, the culture appears to have changed. Instead of pulling their hash-power, many hashers are asking for a protocol change to mitigate the problem instead. Various developers have mentioned such emergency coding in the past, lending credence to that argument. However, in my opinion, if that comes pass: The Bitcoin experiment will have been a failure. How A Mining Monopoly Can Attack Bitcoin (http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/16/how-a-mining-monopoly-can-attack-bitcoin/) I also plan to complete selling half my BItcoin by Friday. I am selling half of my Bitcoin holdings because of Ghash (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=654799.0) Two reasons:
I agree, sadly. Bitcoin runs on the assumption that at least half the network is acting "morally," so to speak. I'm afraid that this is no longer true. Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: fryarminer on June 18, 2014, 05:38:35 PM How A Mining Monopoly Can Attack Bitcoin (http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/16/how-a-mining-monopoly-can-attack-bitcoin/) Excellent article!! Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: moriartybitcoin on June 18, 2014, 05:40:37 PM You should be very worried!
Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: fryarminer on June 19, 2014, 06:42:06 PM I wouldn't say you should be worried. In pain maybe, but not worried.
In my opinion the only danger it causes is the drop in btc price, and lack of adoption from the masses who think that btc has been compromised and has failed as a system. And the bad press only augments those two things. Ghash wouldn't actually do an attack. Once they hit 51% they are going to be under the world microscope - the instant they try anything all the btc world will come down on them. That being said, Ghash IS actively attacking bitcoin RIGHT NOW by allowing their hash rate to be that high. The attack they are doing is precisely the two things I mention above: devaluation and lack of confidence in the system. Title: Re: Should I be worried about the 51%? Post by: FattyMcButterpants on June 19, 2014, 07:07:21 PM we need to be vigilant. one should always worry about mining centralization (and 51% is not the only issue there). this is a real problem, and trusting the integrity of the blockchain to any one pool -- that has to end.
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