Title: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: BitCoinDream on June 18, 2014, 05:53:37 PM Is there any drawback of P2Pool over Normal Pool mining with 0% fee, e.g. at GHash.IO ?
Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: rarkenin on June 18, 2014, 08:25:33 PM No, in fact there is an advantage, as soon as everything is set up and working. Mining at ghash.io increases their power, which in result allows them to perform a 51% attack more easily if they wanted to. By mining on p2pool, you do not help facilitate centralization of mining power.
Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: Rapido on June 19, 2014, 12:31:22 AM so is 51% a viable threat or very unlikely to happen? ???
Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: BitCoinDream on June 19, 2014, 07:54:03 AM No, in fact there is an advantage, as soon as everything is set up and working. Mining at ghash.io increases their power, which in result allows them to perform a 51% attack more easily if they wanted to. By mining on p2pool, you do not help facilitate centralization of mining power. That is the advantage of the network. I'm asking which one is beneficial as a miner and why ? p.s. I understand, as a pool owner, a normal pool is beneficial as pool owner may have commission from payment, which is not possible on a P2Pool. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: single-mom on June 19, 2014, 08:17:47 AM P2P is currently only for large miners.
Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: BitCoinDream on June 19, 2014, 09:37:52 AM P2P is currently only for large miners. Why do u think so ? What advantage a small miner gets at a normal pool ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: Harley997 on June 21, 2014, 05:35:43 AM No, in fact there is an advantage, as soon as everything is set up and working. Mining at ghash.io increases their power, which in result allows them to perform a 51% attack more easily if they wanted to. By mining on p2pool, you do not help facilitate centralization of mining power. Many P2P nodes do not offer merged mining, while Ghash does. NMC merged mining can add ~1% to your return Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: BitCoinDream on June 21, 2014, 05:08:08 PM No, in fact there is an advantage, as soon as everything is set up and working. Mining at ghash.io increases their power, which in result allows them to perform a 51% attack more easily if they wanted to. By mining on p2pool, you do not help facilitate centralization of mining power. Many P2P nodes do not offer merged mining, while Ghash does. NMC merged mining can add ~1% to your return I'd like to know the bitcoin mining specific advantage Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: Gimmelfarb on June 21, 2014, 05:34:54 PM No, in fact there is an advantage, as soon as everything is set up and working. Mining at ghash.io increases their power, which in result allows them to perform a 51% attack more easily if they wanted to. By mining on p2pool, you do not help facilitate centralization of mining power. Many P2P nodes do not offer merged mining, while Ghash does. NMC merged mining can add ~1% to your return I'd like to know the bitcoin mining specific advantage it's decentralized. it helps to reduce the 51% (and under) threat. anything that chips away at mining centralization helps. i do understand the economic incentive for miners to pursue ways to merge mine, though. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: BitCoinDream on June 21, 2014, 05:57:56 PM No, in fact there is an advantage, as soon as everything is set up and working. Mining at ghash.io increases their power, which in result allows them to perform a 51% attack more easily if they wanted to. By mining on p2pool, you do not help facilitate centralization of mining power. Many P2P nodes do not offer merged mining, while Ghash does. NMC merged mining can add ~1% to your return I'd like to know the bitcoin mining specific advantage it's decentralized. it helps to reduce the 51% (and under) threat. anything that chips away at mining centralization helps. i do understand the economic incentive for miners to pursue ways to merge mine, though. Whatever u have said are the advantages of the network. What advantage does a miner get by joining the a P2Pool over a normal pool ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: Chemistry1988 on June 22, 2014, 06:02:24 AM Whatever u have said are the advantages of the network. What advantage does a miner get by joining the a P2Pool over a normal pool ? I don't see any direct personal gain from using p2pool, but I believe everyone involved in bitcoin (miners, traders, merchants, and even faucet lovers) want bitcoin to be successful and want to see the price going up. While the major pools may not have any bad intentions at all, it is never a good idea to have the mining world overly-centralized, and it will negatively affect the confidence in bitcoin and hence the merchant acceptance, adoption rate and price. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: ranochigo on June 22, 2014, 07:37:25 AM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X.
Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: newIndia on June 22, 2014, 10:37:49 AM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: ranochigo on June 22, 2014, 11:06:53 AM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: newIndia on June 22, 2014, 11:09:35 AM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: ranochigo on June 22, 2014, 11:10:46 AM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: newIndia on June 22, 2014, 11:13:32 AM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ? Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: ranochigo on June 22, 2014, 11:21:13 AM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ? Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ? screen -d -m -S btcp2pool ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py (username) (Bitcoind password) It will automatically donate a small amount of the miner's revenue to you. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: newIndia on June 22, 2014, 02:27:01 PM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ? Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ? screen -d -m -S btcp2pool ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py (username) (Bitcoind password) It will automatically donate a small amount of the miner's revenue to you. Thank u so much ...u have been very helpful :) Do u know if a pool (P2Pool or normal) can be setup on Google App Engine ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: ranochigo on June 22, 2014, 02:34:43 PM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ? Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ? screen -d -m -S btcp2pool ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py (username) (Bitcoind password) It will automatically donate a small amount of the miner's revenue to you. Thank u so much ...u have been very helpful :) Do u know if a pool (P2Pool or normal) can be setup on Google App Engine ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: newIndia on June 22, 2014, 02:37:30 PM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ? Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ? screen -d -m -S btcp2pool ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py (username) (Bitcoind password) It will automatically donate a small amount of the miner's revenue to you. Thank u so much ...u have been very helpful :) Do u know if a pool (P2Pool or normal) can be setup on Google App Engine ? Appengine provides daily 28 instances for free. I'm running some of my low traffic sites over there. I heard P2Pool does not take much of server resource ...so I thought we can run one for free on Appengine. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: ranochigo on June 22, 2014, 03:01:11 PM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ? Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ? screen -d -m -S btcp2pool ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py (username) (Bitcoind password) It will automatically donate a small amount of the miner's revenue to you. Thank u so much ...u have been very helpful :) Do u know if a pool (P2Pool or normal) can be setup on Google App Engine ? Appengine provides daily 28 instances for free. I'm running some of my low traffic sites over there. I heard P2Pool does not take much of server resource ...so I thought we can run one for free on Appengine. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: InwardContour on June 22, 2014, 08:46:31 PM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you
Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: newIndia on June 22, 2014, 09:10:07 PM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: ranochigo on June 23, 2014, 01:37:51 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: InwardContour on June 23, 2014, 05:05:12 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty). Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: ranochigo on June 23, 2014, 05:18:46 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty). Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: jonnybravo0311 on June 23, 2014, 10:20:08 AM If you are talking about the rewards, give it at least 6 months, both of them will have more or less the same payout for the last 6 months. Most normal pools have fees which can result in p2pool having more payout. They also have email notifications which alerts the user if the hashrate falls below X. Is there any reward for the P2Pool owner ? So, unless a P2Pool owner has his own mining equipment, he's not gonna profit from this ...right ? Because, like a normal pool owner, he cant charge ...is not it ? Is it possible at all to impose a fee on mining payout for a P2Pool ? screen -d -m -S btcp2pool ~/p2pool/run_p2pool.py (username) (Bitcoind password) It will automatically donate a small amount of the miner's revenue to you. Code: ./run_p2pool.py -f 1.0 You can most certainly merge-mine on p2pool. As of now, you can mine NMC, DVC, IXC, I0C, FSC, HUC along with BTC on a p2pool node. Your node's hashing power is combined and used to try and solve blocks for each of those coins. The difference between schemes like those at GHash, Eligius, BTCGuild is that those pools pay the miners, whereas p2pool pays the node. If you want to pay your miners proceeds from merged-mined coins, you'll have to do so manually as they will not be automatically paid. There is a very nice comparison thread showing earnings from p2pool, Eligius and BTCGuild here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=416933.0 One of the nice features of p2pool is the ability to donate - and surprisingly, people do indeed donate. That is one advantage over mining the other pools. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: Harley997 on June 26, 2014, 03:22:02 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty). Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do. Assuming no variance then both p2p and a "real" pool will have the same payout, however with p2p there is a greater chance of having some kind of variance (and a 50/50 chance of that variance of being negative) with the smaller size in relation to the whole network Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: ranochigo on June 26, 2014, 03:27:39 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty). Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do. Assuming no variance then both p2p and a "real" pool will have the same payout, however with p2p there is a greater chance of having some kind of variance (and a 50/50 chance of that variance of being negative) with the smaller size in relation to the whole network Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: Harley997 on June 30, 2014, 02:28:20 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you In the long run, both p2pool and big normal pools can have the same amount of payout, I believe p2poool will have a bit higher payout.The problem is that when difficulty increases a "luck" of 100% will be less, so if your luck is 90% during one period of difficulty and then 110% luck the next difficulty then your total reward will be less then if you had 95% luck over both difficulty periods (assuming a 20% increase in difficulty). Additionally p2pool does not generally offer any kind of merged mining while most major pools do. Assuming no variance then both p2p and a "real" pool will have the same payout, however with p2p there is a greater chance of having some kind of variance (and a 50/50 chance of that variance of being negative) with the smaller size in relation to the whole network Most larger pools have some level of DDoS protection for all miners and some have additional protection like private servers for larger miners. It is very rare that a pool would not have enough BTC to allow a cashout as they should not be spending any coins that belong to the miners. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: Nagato4 on June 30, 2014, 02:54:23 AM One of the nice features of p2pool is the ability to donate - and surprisingly, people do indeed donate. That is one advantage over mining the other pools. IMO, the real surprising fact to me is that, only a tiny fraction of people are willing to donate and support the developer. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=18313.msg7430095#msg7430095 Despite that, it is hard to work on this project when most people insist on cutting off the pool donations to me. When I see guides telling people to use --give-author 0 without any mention made of what it does, people blindly following them, or people asking me for help, providing screenshots of them running P2Pool with donations disabled, it hurts a bit. Actually, more than a bit. Right now, I get 0.09% of the revenue from P2Pool due to node donations (which default to 1%), which likely means that about 90% of people have completely disabled donations. That doesn't result in much revenue. Just today I spent about 10 hours getting http://p2pool.info/ working, which is the equivalent of two weeks of pool donations - if I were being paid minimum wage! I don't have a job (I am a student) and I do have other side-ventures that I'm working towards that look a bit more optimistic, so pardon me for rationally allocating my free time. Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: Nagato4 on June 30, 2014, 03:01:02 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ? Indeed, the p2pool hashrate is about 450 TH/s now (http://p2pool.info/), which is just about 0.36% of total network hashrate. So, IMO, it is fair to say p2pool is very small... Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: InwardContour on June 30, 2014, 03:53:43 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ? Indeed, the p2pool hashrate is about 450 TH/s now (http://p2pool.info/), which is just about 0.36% of total network hashrate. So, IMO, it is fair to say p2pool is very small... Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: newIndia on June 30, 2014, 08:35:14 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ? Indeed, the p2pool hashrate is about 450 TH/s now (http://p2pool.info/), which is just about 0.36% of total network hashrate. So, IMO, it is fair to say p2pool is very small... Does P2Pool means joining this existing one ? Cant we build our own P2Pool separate from this ? Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: Crossbow376 on June 30, 2014, 09:26:35 AM Does P2Pool means joining this existing one ? Cant we build our own P2Pool separate from this ? You can use any existing p2pool nodes. You can setup a new node. You may build your own peer-to-peer mining software if you really want to go that way... Title: Re: P2Pool vs Normal Pool - Which one better ? Post by: InwardContour on July 01, 2014, 03:01:47 AM Since P2Pool is very small it has a higher variance as it's small size creates a greater chance that it's two week luck will be something other then 100% this can work for or against you Sorry... I dont get your point. Why are u assuming a P2Pool will be small ? If it can offer proper service to miners it may become big like GHash.IO as well. Is not it ? Indeed, the p2pool hashrate is about 450 TH/s now (http://p2pool.info/), which is just about 0.36% of total network hashrate. So, IMO, it is fair to say p2pool is very small... Does P2Pool means joining this existing one ? Cant we build our own P2Pool separate from this ? |