Bitcoin Forum

As many of you know Matthew and I have had some issue on him providing work he has been paid for. Many reading this thread will find this interesting.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64961.0

Because Matthew will not talk with me (took me off skype and did not respond to the thread he asked me to make) I have been advised to make a thread with all of the related evidence so he will formally be labeled as a scammer. This I will do as soon as I am able to gather all of the evidence in a readable way.

I would like to make it clear that I am asking for a full refund on everything that I have paid for. Matthew has more than once stated he will give me a 50 BTC refund for the website but I would like a refund for the adverts and the mag as well.

Matthew has recently been banned from bitcointalk.org so I will update this thread as soon as any bitcoins are repaid to me or he does make contact with me.

Sorry for this bad news but I think it is best the community knows about this. He has had more than enough time to deal with this.

Matthew has asked me to respond to your accusations here. 9 days ago, 14 February,  you were offered a full refund by Adam for both the ad and the website. To be honest, I'm not quite sure why you're stating otherwise.

Matthew already pasted what really happened with about 10 pages of forum PM and Skype logs on https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=64772.0 so I don't think your opinion really matters, neither does his. Just the logs themselves mattered and we've already all seen them.

Matthew is not speaking to you directly because you are wasting his time now and borderline harassing him. He's already agreed to a full refund above and beyond what should be done, you have merely ignored every single attempt at instructions on how to get that refund and confused matters with your lack of English proficiency.

Since you have already agreed that by your own admission 2 weeks ago that you would rather not wait any longer for the very busy Matthew, he was going to provide you a refund for website design (even including hosting which is coming out of his pocket) and you agreed but never provided a refund address. It was at that time that out of good faith, Matthew even went in to your thread looking for a replacement and gave an outline of what you would need assistance with. He has also provided you with all information your new designer required. Since you have agreed not to be using Matthew for webdesign and have agreed to receive a refund, calling him a scammer because you have not provided a refund address to the individual you have been notified repeatedly is in charge of refunds is downright childish and reckless of you.

Matthew has told you numerous times (check your logs) that he was no longer in charge of customer/advertising accounts as it distracts him from working on the magazine and assigned that job to Adam Harding. Adam Harding handles all customer issues and refunds now.

He also made it clear that the last time you went to the forums without contacting him and made a statement to the tune of "Matthew took me for 100BTC! Be careful!" that he no longer had interest in working with you. The only reason he has patronized you to this point is because of his professional obligations at the magazine, which he is responsible for providing an advertisement for you.

After telling you about a refund, you made it clear on those Skype logs that you weren't interested in a refund, but then recently (in the past few days) decided suddenly that not only do you potentially want a refund for a private (non-magazine related) website work, you also want a refund for a magazine subscription that you purchased. This is totally fine, but Matthew does not handle those refunds-- Adam Harding does. Matthew also made it clear that he would not be processing those refunds personally as that is not his duty, job or right to do so any longer.

Matthew is not a scammer and he has already provided the community with more than enough evidence as to what happened. The issue right now is that you refuse to talk to Adam Harding who contacted you directly on February 14th, 2012 with the following message:


You have a contact email address provided by the person in charge of refunds and customer accounts, but in checking, you have never once contacted that email address for a refund. You then post on the magazine thread stating that you are pushing to have Matthew labeled as a scammer because you did not get a refund. This is the type of frustration Matthew has been facing with dealing with you from day one according to those Skype logs. You seem to be irrational, impatient, and constantly changing what you say. It won't be tolerated and I am sure no one wants anything more than just give you a refund and send you on your merry way with the lesson to not do business with people in the future who don't know what to expect.

It is completely your call on that one, but refunds will never be made by posting on this thread, no matter how childishly it's done. You'll need to contact the person in charge of customer and advertising accounts, Adam Harding.

Matthew will not be contacting you ever again. No one will ever be able to send you a refund either, as you have not even bothered to follow even the slightest instructions. Adam Harding can process your refund instantaneously upon request, all he needs is a bitcoin receiving address. Why are you posting slanderous allegations on the magazine thread that have absolutely nothing to do with the magazine? Isn't this issue about webhosting and design he was offering privately and then you later agreed to find a replacement because your initial approved terms of "whenever he has time" changed to "I need it right now because of an investor"? You have no leg to stand on here and this is all entirely irrational behavior. You should be ashamed of yourself.

He has been attempting to deal with this (and you) for some time, but according to Skype logs, you simply don't understand English. I'll reiterate here so that the mods, admin, yourself and community can all see this:

If you want a refund for a magazine, please contact Adam Harding. Thank you!

If you want a refund for advertising space, please contact Adam Harding (and also be aware that traditionally it is non-refundable, but under these circumstances there was a complicated personal and business agreement made that cannot be honored so a refund is possible).

If you want a refund for the webdesign (which although originally a private contract with Matthew, all proceeds went to the Bitcoin Magazine), please contact Adam Harding. Thank you!

Adam Harding's contact information is adam@bitcoinmagazine.co.uk

Fair warning, this kind of childish slander on the magazine thread about something you clearly dropped the ball on will do nothing but bring bad publicity to your own business endeavors. You might want to stop cross-thread posting about this when you already have a communication channel open.

Thanks.

Unless I'm missing something, I see this resolved with one email and one transfer of bitcoins. I hope to see this resolved soon for all those concerned. I would hate to see this dragged out must longer, for you never know who's reading this forum and how they may perceive this situation.

~Bruno~

Your ignorance is bad enough, your lies are trying my patience.



We've all learned through mtGox stories that simply starting a thread someplace doesn't mean that someone knows about it, and as I mentioned, refunds are not given through forum thread posts, it's against our legal policy.


I believe he was joking and then realized it was out of line and further explained to you over Skype that it was meant as a friendly rub regarding all your quick-to-anger gambling habits, and I think it's being made increasingly clear that in fact the root of this issue is that Matthew cannot work with people like you. After seeing the Skype logs and how you are presenting yourself here, I don't think anyone has any question what you are.







Thanks for providing more proof how insanely hard it is to get you to follow basic instructions. Please re-read the instructions above. No further responses will be given regarding this subject on this forum, and certainly not this thread. You've already posted enough off-topic mess for one day.

The process has not changed and we don't change it just because people get impatient with us. What kind of a magazine would we be then?

Goat has a way to get his refund privately, he has tried to make it into a spectacle. Even if we didn't have legal guidelines to follow for refunds (like an email trail?) we wouldn't give a refund to someone on a thread just because they asked some random person who works on the magazine in some fashion. The person in charge of the spreadsheets for who has paid what and the ability to pay them back is Adam Harding-- that's why.

Signing off.

Matthew is currently banned, and I speak on this issue once again as a last resort of good faith-- not I, not Matthew, only Adam Harding has the magical key to send people refunds. Sorry.

Your email has been responded too.

so... they asked you for more information, basicly a email equivelent to the slip you'd sign in a store if you returned something and this confuses you? do you walk into a store and say i'm returning x here's my open wallet put in the money?

Goat this is not a stall for time and absurd statements like that are insulting, you're perfectly capable of reasoning based on your past actions that the magazine doesn't want to send payment to "I just sent an email to that address with nothing else in it but the public will known btc address..." as well your refusal to hold up this statement "If you need more information than please let me know..." is dissapointing. In addition, partially thanks to your obtuseness, we've now entered a time where the person who can process your refund(adam) is at this dayjob(those things we have because we can't live on bitcoin alone just yet...)

Ummm clearly Goat trusted Matthew with this batch of payments add, mag and site and I don't see anyone being able to dispute that based on what both parties are saying. And as such imo he's the sole responsible party in this. I don't really see how the magazine is getting dragged into this as it makes them the payment processor for his shitty site work, which I hope the magazine is trying to distance itself from as it's pretty shitty to put things mildly.

Seriously if you fuck up somewhere just say so and settle whatever is outstanding, we're all human. I can fully understand that Goat is upset and wants nothing to do with Matthew or the magazine. Making him jump though hoops etc is rather uncalled for as he sent this Matthew as an individual trusting him with handling all this.

Taking this outside the trading discussion part may not have been the best of choices but it is more or less called for, as how an editor conducts his personal business reflects directly on the magazine as a whole.

Dear Sir you have 3 options:

1. Communicate with Bittalk Media Ltd in writing (i.e. email or snail mail) and agree F&F settlement as it was proposed or negotiate it, should you want to. Then get full refund.
2. Sue us, see http://bitcoinmagazine.co.uk/terms-of-sale/ . I, personally, at this point would prefer this scenario and I would personally defend this in the court.
3. Continue acting "in bad faith" as you are for a while now and get on every shit list out there as well as not getting any refund.

Let me also explain you that by refusing to communicate with Adam ( an agent appointed by the company) you are "acting in bad faith". Google it.

By refusing to accept refund you are "acting in bad faith".

This is final. Our position will not change.

Faithfully Yours,

Wow, ok, talk about STUPID miscommunication/language barriers!

Chaang, it looks like you COMPLETELY misunderstood the purpose of all this, and while the rest of us understand what Matthew is asking for, you are just continuing to make yourself look bad. Here is the process that is being asked of you in as simple terms as I can make them.

Bitcoin Magazine is a business owned by multiple people. They need to protect themselves as much as possible.

You are asking for a refund.

They need a good record of all transactions and agreements, and the best thing for that is email, because there is no guarantee this forum will be here tomorrow. If the forum is the only record of this discussion, and it disappears, you could accuse them off never paying you, and they would have no way to prove otherwise.

To get a refund, they also need a recorded statement from you saying exactly what the refund is for. In your case they are asking that you confirm that the money you both have agreed on will cover everything you have asked for. That's what "absolve us of all prior commitments/contracts/obligations" means. Another way to put it is "you agree that this refund will cover everything you have asked for so far." Without this email, they can send you your refund, and you can say that this refund was only for the web site, and they never sent you a refund for the magazines. Without this second email, they again would not have proof otherwise.

TL;DR They are not scamming you, they are just making sure that both of you agree on the different specific parts of the refund. What they are doing is standard business practices, and if you say you have your own business, I strongly suggest you learn from them and follow the same methods. The only one who thinks what they are doing as "wrong" is you, and by continuing to post publicly about it you are only ruining your own reputation.

The only problem I see with this is that it includes Matthew's site work as well, which I don't see the magazine as having been offering rather him personally imo making this whole thing/issue a personal issue. Please correct me if I'm wrong in this.

Dear Sir,

Matthew N. Wright is an agent and an officer of Bittalk Media Ltd. With reference to all matters directly related to Bitcoin Magazine.

Faithfully Yours,

Did you have an agreement with Matthew that he will be your representative for doing business with the company?

If yes, you need to deal with the company, because they have your money and are the ones who didn't do the job you asked for. It's like you are accusing a pizza delivery man of scamming you because the pizza shop did not add the toppings you asked for.

If no, then why did you give money to Matthew for magazines when he doesn't actually make the magazines, and the company does?

I think you lost all privileges of working with a specific company representative when you started publicly accusing someone of doing something illegal.

I don't know how this relates to the website work, but at this point the best thing you can do is email back and say "Yes, I agree, this refund will cover all my past requests and issues." Doing anything else will only make it seem as if you are just attacking Matthew personally for no reason.

Ok that does clear up some of this.

Imo in that case a reasonable solution could be:

A) Goat goes through the process concerning the mag an add, as it's reasonable enough that the other people in the group want a disclaimer and part of the transfer of funds was for that purpose.

B) Matthew personally gets his finger out regarding the site refund, as it atm reflects really poorly on both himself and the people he works with.


Anyone got a better idea?

Dear Sir,

  It is inappropriate to continue discussing this matter here on the forum. Please contact adam@bitcoinmagazine.co.uk to resolve any issues related to the refund. We would prefer to not have any business relationships with you in the future. Thank You.

  You can find all the information about the company you may need on our website http://bitcoinmagazine.co.uk.

Faithfully Yours,

Oh what the hell, this is still going? Just send them this bloody email I wrote for you just now and get on with your bloody life, man!


It's not bloody rocket science, sheesh.

My apologies, Goat, for it looked promising in theory.

Full disclosure: I don't have a horse in this race, but truly look forward to the first issue of Bitcoin Magazine.

~Bruno~ (not Bruno Dumont)

Bitcoin Magazine: Please follow our bureaucratic process to get a refund. No compromises. The customer isn't always right. They serve us.

I'm sorry but this just wasn't good customer service guys. Even if the customer is an arse -- treat them well for the sake of public perception. You could of easily sent the BTC to the address on the forum and this mess would of never happened.

Yes, Goat is being a bitch but you're no better.

Shut up Atlas,

Goat..  Man up..

This,  I dealt with matthew so I want him to answer for all my complaints on behalf of bitcoin mag is childish..

Kiss and make up boys..

I must say that both Goat/Chaang AND Bitcoin Magazine/its representatives have been acting in an extremely childish manner.  I thought Bitcoin Magazine would be something to look forward to.  Maybe not.

Without taking side in the dispute, I would say that unless they post transcripts/pictures of this forum in the magazine, the quality of the magazine shouldn't be affected by what is discussed here.

That's one thing I don't get.  How do people extrapolate the content/value/quality of the magazine based on a disagreement going on in the forum?  It makes no sense to me...  A disagreement outside of the magazine is just that - outside of the magazine.

I may have to agree with you there. Bruce still seems to embrace and reap benefits with Bitcoin, regardless of what transpired on this forum.

I don't get that either. Oh well, so many things in life are... curious.

edit: I think Im done editing this post.

We have been acting in an appropriate manner for the situation we have been dealing with. It is standard practice in the business world to send official communications over email. It is considered binding and the same as signing a contract. What is inappropriate is Goat posting that email here without so much as a reply to the email address it was sent from. It appears this user is only trying to cause a problem and sensationalism over a non issue. The coins have not gone anywhere and the refund will be processed when it is appropriate to do so.

We have been trying to refund Goat since the 14th and he has not followed any instruction properly this whole time. The first email received from Goat since the 14th, when we first offered a full refund, was the BTC address this morning and nothing else. Him accepting the terms of the refund is required as it would be for anyone else to limit our liability in the future. The actions of this user throughout this ordeal give us only more reason to enforce these terms in this instance.

As for Atlas saying we have bad customer service I would disagree. We have been following standard business practices that a 17 year old wouldn't understand since they have never held a real job. Just look at the only reference to customer service in this thread and you will see that we go above and beyond to satisfy our customers.

All of this should have no bearing on your opinion of the magazine content itself. I am confident that everyone will be satisfied when the first issue is sent out.

PS. He still has sent nothing to the email address except just the receiving address. Not even a reply after all this mess in the forum. I think the mods might want to do some cleaning up in this thread since most of it was off topic and unnecessary. Business matters need to be dealt with through the proper channels and not on the forum. I do not want to see any more posts about this issue in this thread unless we actually don't deliver on what we have said we will do. We have been acting in good faith this whole time and Goat has failed to do so on a number of occasions.

GOAT - REPLY TO EMAILS PLEASE, ESPECIALLY BEFORE POSTING THEM TO THE FORUM. THIS FORUM IS NOT CONSIDERED A VALID MEANS OF BUSINESS COMMUNICATION

If you notice, he posted here and not there. The last communication is about 3 pages back on this thread.

That thread does not have the information that he put into this one but it would be a good place for the mods to move all the off topic messages to.

Hint Hint

[Edit]

Thanks for the heads up, I posted that quote in his thread.

It was necessary to prove you were spreading lies. Proof had to be provided and it was. Please try to stick to factual details in the future and it won't be necessary.

Your refund has not been processed since you have not agreed to the terms of the refund. Once terms are agreed upon, it can be processed.

Matthew made a contract with Goat to provide a website solely because the magazine advertising policy states that companies cannot advertise without a representative website. He had no website but wanted to assist Goat so that he would be able to get his advertisement into the first ever issue published.

The terms were literally "There is no deadline except for when we are ready to print, but if you leave it up to Matthew, he will handle it in time. Sit back and relax and just be there when you're needed". Unfortunately, after recklessly agreeing to this even after Matthew warned repeatedly of his inability to start work immediately, overpriced work, and inability to provide support, Goat changed his mind entirely due to the interest of a $50k investor. Even though Matthew actually did -the-entire-website- less what Goat needed to write about his own company profiles etc, Matthew's standards are too high to call a wordpress with 'ipsum lorem' as "magazine worthy" and continued to request Goat to post information about his company/pages, which went completely ignored, and almost in bipolar style were responded to with threats as to why the magazine advertisement (which cannot be made without the website) isn't done yet.

The entire time, Matthew was only concerned with getting things finalized for the magazine, while Goat's concern was just 'being in control'. That should explain the mentality of the two individuals right here and now.

After both parties were tired and annoyed at the back and forth, Goat went to the forums and claimed that Matthew had "taken him for 100BTC" which is a lie. Matthew was extremely pissed and felt his agreement had been soiled and no longer wanted to work with Goat. After explaining this to Goat, he apologized and corrected his statements on the forum. After a little more time passed, Goat suggested to find someone else and Matthew immediately agreed with his apologies.

From this point on, there is no agreement between Matthew and Goat directly and Goat should have asked for a refund and provided a return address but never did, even after Matthew requested so. This is why Vladimir mentioned continuing on "in bad faith". You cannot do this and later claim no one tried to refund you.

Matthew offered Goat a full refund of all expenses on anything related to their previous agreements, but Goat was obsessed with results in a "you told me I'd have the stars and I don't have the stars, I don't want a refund, I want the stars!" attitude. Adam Harding instructed Goat to provide a refund address and was completely ignored.

Please note that Adam and Goat have spoke numerous times, but Goat has posted publicly that he "has never worked with Adam". Apparently not adding Goat to his buddy list on Skype means that he "refused to speak to him". I don't know what dimension or universe Goat is living in but customer support doesn't add customers to their buddy list.

On multiple occasions in dialogue with Matthew, Goat refused a refund and even though Matthew went out of his way to find a replacement and give necessary information to Goat's found replacement, Goat found a replacement on his own. That replacement failed him however and Goat went straight to blame Matthew for having "caused him all this trouble to begin with", demanding a refund for not just the website, but everything at the magazine as well. Matthew obliged and furious at the back and forth, lack of English comprehension and general annoyance at a busy time in the magazine's development, instructed Goat to speak with the accounts manager, Adam Harding who has the capability to process refunds instantaneously. Goat refused, claiming that the refund must come from Matthew directly or "no deal", citing his reasoning as "I don't know Adam, I know you. Give me what I want."

Matthew is in charge of a lot of things at the magazine and the driving force behind the imagination and actual workload of many projects these days, I don't think anyone wants him wasting time dealing in customer service, especially since we all know his lack of people skills and tendency to troll. He is smart in having the foresight to put Adam Harding in charge and walk away.

After a while, the entire BitTalk Media group encouraged Matthew to downright ignore Goat and reprimanded him for even discussing this issue on the forum (which is what lead to the clearing of his original heartfelt thread regarding how to handle this sensitive issue), and ultimately the decision at Bitcoin magazine is that Goat should get a refund and be sent on his way. Now he is publicly (in the magazine thread no less) asking for Matthew to receive a scammer tag for the simple reason that he hasn't yet received a refund (even though he was asked numerous times for an address and given clear and concise direction on how to get one) and downright lied that he has been waiting on a refund for weeks.

This entire issue is bad publicity for the magazine, but most ironically, it has nothing to do with the magazine-- it is a personal contract between Goat and Matthew to which a refund should settle everything. I believe from the bottom of my heart that Goat is bent on smearing Matthew, the magazine, and anything else that gets in his way and that his post in the magazine thread is very much off-topic. I do not ask that it be removed unless the admin agrees, but the fact that he is so reckless, ignorant and blind to the instructions in front of him should give him idea of how frustrating it has been for everyone to go through this with him. There is no call for Matthew to be labeled a scammer when all he has done is try to reason with and provide services to goat, will be giving a refund of everything including hosting fees that will come out of Matthew's pocket, and basically already embarrassed everyone by even doing business with such an unprofessional person as Goat in the first place.

Goat is not wrong for wanting a refund, but he is wrong for taking this to the forums in this manner when open communication channels already exist and he has been repeatedly contacted to provide a refund method/address.

Goat has already called Matthew a scammer completely out of the blue just because he didn't respond to a forum PM quickly enough to Goat's liking (and Goat admitted this was wrong and apologized),

Matthew has already ended his contract with Goat to which Goat has already agreed to find another designer and receive a refund.

Matthew has never once received instruction or address to give the refund back.

Adam Harding is now asking for this information, but in his professional position cannot just send random BTC to random people for random reasons haphazordly ignoring the future ability for law suits, claims of not receiving said refund, etc. Adam Harding and Vladimir are doing what they should be doing in having Goat respond in a contractually valid form and providing more than just a random string in an email.

I just felt that the truth needed to get out there and I absolutely hate overly self-important, hyperserious people when they start to spread FUD.

Thanks.


P.S. To those who think this is blown out of proportion and "Matthew should just refund him to end this!", Matthew doesn't have the money, it's in the Magazine's possession. Some people are seeing this as being some kind of avoidance of an issue, but they should be seeing this as Goat having no sense and flopping all over the place like a goldfish when a refund is sitting on the table, he just needs to take it.

Just thought I'd input that generally, yes, emails are binding contracts.  And they have been held up as such in countless cases in court now.  I'm not going to give examples, that's just what I remember from my business law course.

Also, Chaang, IMO, you are being completely unreasonable.  Just reply to the email as they requested, and you'll get the refund.  Why are you continuing to drag this out?  If the refund is received, why do you care who it came from?

Important to note-- Matthew never mentioned once anything about you publicly. The thread he started was a general thread for assistance and made no connection between the logs he posted and you, in fact, he took the time to redact everything related to your business and name. He later removed it just the same out of request from some individuals at the magazine. Matthew is grief stricken about this entire thing because he always feels responsible for everything that happens, even when it's not his fault-- that's why we love Matthew. He's not always careful (barely ever actually) but he's sincere and does what needs to be done to get jobs done. In your case, it is quite publicly clear now why he could not function-- because you do not follow simple instruction and he cannot develop a website or advertisement without being given clear and concise information (which you are incapable of giving). I pity Matthew at this moment for the hell it must have been trying to design a website under those conditions and I would have charged you three times what he did.


You posted a message on the magazine thread that Matthew had stolen 100BTC from you. This happened long before the recent problems. You struck first. You made Matthew not want to work with you and everyone at the magazine think of you as nothing but an unprofessional walking liability.


In fact it is not hard at all. The website design was a personal contract, everything else was magazine related. That was made clear in the original forum PM logs as well. No one in their right mind would be confused about that. Furthermore, since you already agreed to cancel that contract and find a new designer (which you did), there is no contract to dispute. What you are asking for is for a refund of a contract you have already cancelled, and addtionally, asking for a refund to the magazine for several services that were sold to you by an agent of the magazine under certain conditions that were not met to your liking. All understandable.

If you read the thread he posted the anonymous logs to, he was posting them as an individual and asking for advice on how to handle the personal contract between you and him for the website design.

Simple. Magazine's don't make websites for people. You bought advertising space and then asked Matthew if he knew anyone who could design the website and Matthew privately tried to assist you with it. What are you confused about? The logs made it very clear.

You're a walking insult to professionalism.

I don't think that would clear up -anything-, but FYI it formed months and months ago.

I warned you once that your lies were trying my patience. When he first contacted you it was related to advertising space in the magazine. In what universe would Matthew be able to sell advertising space in a magazine -privately-?

I warned you once that your lies were trying my patience. This is your final warning. When you posted in the magazine thread about Matthew having stolen money from you, apologized, and then once again came back to the same magazine thread to tell everyone you were scammed, you dragged the company into it.

If there is anything we can all agree to it's that you need more education. BitTalk Media is a UK company. For Adam Harding to give you a refund, BitTalk Media requires a legally binding contract according to UK guidelines to cover the UK company in the event that you went to the UK and tried to sue them for a refund claiming it was never given to you.

Matthew does not have the BTC, the magazine does. Matthew does not have your BTC address-- why would he? You've never given it to him. You are asking for a refund from the magazine as well and yet you think Matthew-- an editor-- is the person to give it to you?

Matthew crossed private/professional channels by doing this, which he did as a favor to you and instantly regretted. That much will never happen again. Once again, Matthew underestimates the shady character of people in the Bitcoin community and assumed that it would just 'be okay'. He's already been fussed at for this.

The magazine probably will end up giving 50BTC back to Matthew to send to you himself, but you're ignoring the fact that the magazine, but you're asking for more than just the refund for the webdesign. I think you don't even know what you want and that's why you look crazy.


Is anyone else reading this? When did anyone say Matthew has nothing to do with the magazine? The only thing we've been saying is that Matthew is not in charge of refunds.

At the moment, it only concerns you and Adam. Stop being self-important and just give him the information he needs. Talk about it later when it's over with.

Everyone can agree to this on both parts.


wut?

How is BitTalk Media supposed to prove that a sending address is theirs? Is anyone else getting the "This issue will never die so long as Goat keeps talking" vibe?

QFT

You want the magazine to clarify privately that the website agreement between you and Matthew was not a professional service by the magazine? Sounds reasonable enough.

It was cleared up before you posted. Someone else in the team pointed it out for me. You have been warned several times against this. Please reply to the email so it can be resolved.

Feel free to ignore me. Adam Hardin is the only one here you need to listen to. I'll still be posting what I think though.

So let me see:

Mathew posted personal chats on these forums (albeit without identification), but still posted confidential information without Goat's agreement
Goat gets pissed and posts on their magazine's thread
Back and forth insulting replies from various magazine's stuff and goat


Let's see... -> Kids.

We are still waiting for Goat to respond to the reply. This could have all been resolved hours ago. I wonder at this point if he is trying to drag it out and make a bigger spectacle than he has already.

I'm wondering why you are even bothering to acknowledge him using such personalized responses, instead of just repeating canned "Please acknowledge your refund agreement, and your money will be refunded immediately" messages. I don't think you guys can really say or explain any more than you already have, and at this point it's all just a protracted bitchfest.

This reminds me of a guy who got a traffic ticket, went to court and just sat there and didn't comply with any of the proceedings. He didn't plead guilty or innocent. He didn't stand for the judge, nada.

All the court bureaucrats were agitated because they couldn't proceed with their paperwork and processes. Eventually the guy just went home, didn't pay the fine and nothing happened.

I can only expect the same result here until Goat gets desperate enough for his money. I have a feeling it's pocket change to him.

Anyways, this is retarded. Both parties are wasting their time unless Goat is just a master troll.  

In that case, Goat is doing some entertaining work.

Quite frankly it's because we would like to close this matter with him once and for all. I thought things couldn't be stated any clearer also but they have had to be stated time and time again. He has come about 95% of the way on this finally but in order to finish the deal he must specify what he paid for each item as has been stated several times before. The last thing we would want is to provide him a refund and then him claim that he wasn't refunded the full amount. This needs to be final and we want to make it as such.

It has become a protracted bitchfest as you stated and it has been very draining on members of the magazine. This is why we are choosing to refrain from ever doing business with him again. We have been trying to refund him since February 14, 2012.

The solution is simple: Just ignore the guy.

When he wants his refund, he'll get it. If he calls all of you guys scammers, he's lying. You can sue him for defamation.

...or you could just put the money in his address and walk away.

Anyways, I'm not your daddy. Do whatever makes you happy.

The first solution COULD be attempted but we are honest and legitimate business people. We are making EVERY EFFORT to provide him his refund. As you said, if he called us scammers then he would clearly be lying. We are not out to take anyone's money without providing appropriate services.

Your second solution is also unworkable since he could claim that it wasn't a full refund and try to solicit us for additional work/refunds. I know this would not fly on these forums but these forums are not a legal court so it would be irrelevant. Emails can be considered a binding agreement and it is why we are using the procedure that we are.

What would make me (and the rest of the magazine) happy is to refund him his money and go on our merry way.

On a lighter note, I know you're not my daddy :P, I am probably old enough to be yours lol.

You can sign a message to prove you own the address. This is a feature coming in .6.0.

Idk how it works, but basically you choose a public address, and you can add a bit of text like "This is a refund for x and x and x" click 'sign message' and you get a verification key that the other party can use to confirm that you signed the given text "this is a refund...", and you own that public key.

At least that's my understanding of what it does, could be mistaken.

Doesn't make it any less true though.   You've proved yourself a nasty troll in the BFL threads and now this.   Good luck with your business, I know I wouldn't go anywhere near you.   

Just be a normal human being for once and send the damn email.  Someone even typed it out for you already.  Grow up.

You got an email and you're talking about it in the thread instead of through the email. Wow. Just wow.

I'm pretty sure it's been said like 10000 times. Why is it still 'unclear' that Matthew did the website work privately and the magazine advertising through the company? Everytime you come back with this crap it makes you look dumber and dumber.

Matthew is an agent for BitTalk Media and any advertising he sold you is liable to the company. Any magazine you bought is liable to the company. Any website design is liable to Matthew. You cancelled your contract with Matthew after agreeing you could not wait any longer and decided to go look for another designer. The only key point here is that we can expect more delays and FUD and the community needs to take this as a lesson when they ask the magazine in the future "why is it so hard to get advertising space now?".

I smell blackmail.

Can you prove Matthew had your address? This is the 5th outright lie you've told so far. When did you tell Matthew your Bitcoin address? Was it ever emailed? Provided over PM even? Or did you just post it to him on Skype after he blocked you? You know that on Skype, it doesn't show anything after you block someone but the person who sent the message shows the message as having been sent?

Or is this one of those vague "My address is known" things that hardcore Bitcoiners know is bullshit (you don't send refunds to a public address without contacting and approving that address to the owner as they may not have access to it anymore etc).

Interesting how easy it is to read you. From the start I've thought you as being horribly greedy, always quick to bet on things and troll about money, always talking about money, and now that you have realized that you have a position to cause more annoyance you suddenly are no longer in a hurry? I don't mind calling you a liar publicly (because you lied several times and I've already proved it) but now I am going to call you a douche in public too. You're a douch Goat. A liar and a douche. I personally would never do business with you. By the way, why is your website tygrr.com, the same name as TyGrr, who is also in Thailand, the forum member who had sent child porn? I think I'm going to start a new thread about that because you seem to like making personal business public. That $50k investment you mentioned in your Skype logs is going to be tricky to keep when you have a similar public image as Bruce Wagner.

Rabble rabble. Your website is basically done, idiot. Matthew finished like 95% of it (Everyone go to Tygrr.com and see what is in fact missing), as the logs showed, you just continued to ignore his requests for actual -TEXT- to put on the website. Did you want him to run your company for you and be your marketing agent as well? Good Lord.

All your site needs right now to be considered a "site" is some information about your company, which you cannot sit down and write, and then take that out on Matthew? You're pathetic. He can't finish the site because you won't do your part. He can't work with you because you called him a scammer publicly long before this just because you weren't patient and didn't pay attention to what you yourself agreed to. He can't work with you NOW (I don't blame him) because he's no longer in charge of customer/advertising accounts. I hope you fly to the UK, sue the company, and learn a valuable lesson about humility. It'd be easy money for the company when they counter sue you.


There is no issue. You told Matthew you agreed to find someone else. Case closed. Where should he send the money? He asked already and you never gave the info. You posted and address without an amount in a thread, and now 'refuse' to draft an email.

Goat, you're a total douche.

Posting that on page one would have helped and avoided all this pointless nonsense.   Christ.

Thank you for finally acting in good faith, Mr. whatever your name is now. I await a reply from BitTalk Media to acknowledge that the requested agreement was, indeed, sent.

Good to hear that this should finally be getting sorted  ;D

I'm pretty sure Matthew felt the same way when he thought he was working for a sane businessman and turned out to be making a deal with an impatient, fussy prick.

Goat, companies have policies. You not knowing this should only serve as a reminder to people wanting to do business with you.

Can't...tell...if...serious....


Can we have Goat banned for continuously lying?

You messaged Matthew after agreeing to buy advertising space in the magazine and asked him to personally assist you in developing a website. You are either handicapped and therefor forgivable (some people have memory problems or language comprehension issues like rainman did), or you're a blatant liar and one of the worst liars ever (constantly saying things that go absolutely against what logs of your own conversation states).

Yes. That is my reply.

Do you know why that is my reply? I will explain it to you like you are a handicapped child.

You told Matthew you wanted to buy advertising space.

You knew Matthew was working for the magazine.

You knew the magazine was a company.

Only a total idiot would not know. When you buy advertising space for a magazine, it is a professional service.

You asked Matthew if he knew anyone who could help with a website.

Matthew made the mistake of trusting you would be 'cool'. He told you he could help you.

He warned you he would take forever because he's busy.

He warned you he was overpriced because he's busy.

He instructed you to find someone-- ANYONE-- else to do it.

You insisted on him, personally.

He agreed and you agreed to a personal agreement for personal work on a website.

You bothered the fuck out of him daily even though you knew it would take him a long time.

You threatened him even though he was already doing the work.

He finished 95% of the website in his free time, making the magazine even later.

He asked you for information to put in the website, you threatened him more.

You never responded to his request for more information.

You posted on the forums that he stole money from you.

He decided right there and then that you are an impossible douchebag who should never be worked with.

He kept his word and kept the agreement just the same.

You eventually got tired of waiting (you broke the agreement) and told him you were going to have someone else do the website.

Your private agreement with him was cancelled right then and there.

You have made this about the magazine. You have dragged the magazine through the mud. You have made everyone have to deal with your ignorance and lies. You should be ashamed of yourself. You should be banned.

You have not kept your word at all and you have spread lies and FUD about Matthew non-stop out of your own misunderstandings.

You asked for a refund and have made it impossible for anyone to give you a refund.

You have judged everyone involved like some child.

You have no agreement with Matthew anymore for the website. You broke it and cancelled it by hiring someone else.

You are being refunded for the private agreement through the magazine only because the original funds were donated to the magazine.

You are bring refunded for the professional agreement about advertising and magazine subscription by your choice and your choice alone.

You are being asked to agree to contract only because you asked for a refund, not because the magazine is worried about being sued.

You would never win a case because you have no case. If anything, Matthew should be personally suing you and trying to get you banned and blackballed from the Bitcoin community for your gross display of unprofessionalism and idiocy.

You want to know the magazine's privacy policy and you claim you can't access it? Yes, you are stupid. The magazine's privacy policy is on the magazine's website genius, it always has been.

You are a liar and a moron. Please take a long walk off a short ledge.

Provide proof the magazine has ever released any information to the public. I am pretty sure you've been doing all of that entirely on your own.

If you're talking about redacted logs posted by Matthew, that was all related to a personal agreement related to a website you sad delusional little man.

You're the only one posting unredacted logs of anything. Everytime Adam talks to you, you run and post the email contents here. That's called "bad faith". You are digging a publicity hole for yourself and then trying to blame others. Freak.

I have only ever been banned once for spamming (which was a misunderstanding). If you were thinking I am Matthew (idiot), Matthew is not even banned anymore. Please stop lying and spreading FUD.

I am not representing the magazine here, Adam is. He's the only one that can talk to you about this issue.

Let's recap the many faces and moods of Goat, the liar and douchebag.

"I don't want a refund"

"Why haven't you given me my refund! Scammers!!11"

"I am in no hurry."

"What is the hold-up???"

I hate to say it, but I really feel like this is going to hurt and discredit bitcoin magazine as a journalistic entity. Its really unfortunate that this type of discussion became hostile.

Goat, if it was a tactic on your part to keep cool while the Vicente lost his head I say "well played, sir", but I don't that that is the case.

I really think Goat realizes, like many of us, bitcoin magazine is a good thing for everyone in the community and despite his attempts to resolve this in a diplomatic manner he has been met with hostility in virtually every reply.

Once this is resolved I propose that we consider deleting this thread. (with everyone's permission).

I don't have a dog in this race other than the desire to see bitcoin succeed. I hope you will both consider my proposal.

Last point I remember this getting stuck on was the magazine asking "Please email us the amount that you believe you are due, and confirm that that's everything we owe you," to which Goat replied "No *FLAIL-WHINE-TROLL*"

Personal information would be your address, phone number, etc. None of this was released and even if so, you agreed to full and final settlement. Do you understand what that means? There will be no further communication from the magazine to you. This matter is closed as far as we are concerned.

BitTalk Media:

I'm concerned that the funds haven't been sent yet. I expect to be given a reason why within 48 hours. If I don't hear back from you in a day, I'll contact you over more official means.

Really they should never have responded on the forums at all beyond a simple we have emailed you concerning this matter. Everybody in this thread looks bad at this point. Hopefully lessons were learned.

I did notice it hasn't been sent yet though. http://blockexplorer.com/address/1Yj6hiWeLL8pxCtCVrtfpNFKhrJUwjT5d

*goes back to delete all his posts to this thread*

I think it's pretty clear who's "right" in all this, and that goat just appears to be severely mentally handicapped.

The guy's an utter prick.

This

As per:
I am authorized to unlock this thread.

Apparently, Goat, your post is in violation of your agreement. I am allowing people from BitTalk Media to provide a rebuttal, if they wish.

A statement on behalf of Bitcoin Magazine.

Goat ordered ads, subscription and website. After that he behaved very unprofessionally,  even childishly, while repeatedly obstructing our efforts to deliver the service he paid for. He then went public with libellous accusations, changed his mind way too many times, wasted significant amount of our time.

We have refunded him all his money and we have agreement with Goat on full and final settlement of this matter.

We refuse to have any business with this person in the future.

Bitcoin Magazine is a very young start-up business, we will review and improve our procedures based on our experience with this incident.

You are absolutely correct. That's why I worded my post the way I did.

However, I have now seen the emails. I'm in agreement with you, Goat. I see no restrictions on what you are allowed to say after the settlement, other than the implicit fact that you can no longer say that the matter isn't settled. I believed them enough to unlock this thread and post that message because many settlement agreements do have such conditions. If neither party objects, I will now re-lock this thread. As the OP, Goat, you can of course still post. If BitTalk Media would like to post again, however, please PM any online mod (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=mlist;sa=search;search=Global+Moderator;fields=group) and they will happily unlock this thread for you if you let them know that I said they could.