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Title: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: BananaNipples on June 23, 2014, 05:40:59 AM Hello,
I've been doing a lot of research on bitcoin and its weaknesses. I realize that bitcoin is software and that anything about it can be changed. After using it for a few months, I think the greatest annoyance is the long transaction times. For large purchases such as transferring money or purchasing a house, the transaction times are fine, but if bitcoin is to really take off in day to day life, it needs much faster transaction times. No one will want to wait around for 15 minutes for confirmations. My question is, since bitcoin is software, will the transaction times be decreased in the future? I think they absolutely must be or else another cryptocurrency will come along and do it. Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: elrapido on June 23, 2014, 05:49:54 AM You don't have to wait for a confirmation...some kind of point-of-sale check to make sure the tx has spread across the whole interweb (should be a matter of seconds right?) and that the inputs aren't included in any other pending tx's....I think you're good then.
And again, like with credit card / cheques, as long as the amount of profit gained by accepting BTC is greater than the amount of BTC scammed in double-spends the store is good right? Also, this: https://blockchain.info/double-spends Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: Cenenigo on June 23, 2014, 06:45:08 AM "Bitcoin Transaction Times" is a good name for a paper or magazine. Like "Sunday Times"
Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: Peter R on June 23, 2014, 07:08:48 AM My question is, since bitcoin is software, will the transaction times be decreased in the future? I think they absolutely must be or else another cryptocurrency will come along and do it. This topic comes up a lot, so perhaps I'm missing something. When are you ever waiting? When I use bitcoin, it is essentially instant. Granted, one must wait perhaps over an hour when moving coins to an exchange, but they'd have to wait a few days or over a week with fiat. Buy a coffee at a brick-and-mortar store ----> instant Buy a domain name or hosting with Namecheap ---> instant Buy a Gyft card ---> instant Pay someone who did some engineering work for me ---> instant Use the Pounce app for "one touch" shopping ---> instant Buy something from Overstock ----> instant Buy dinner and drinks -----> instant Here's when it's not instant: Pay a bill using Bylls -----> they wait for several confirmations (but this wait doesn't matter) Move coins to an exchange (this wait only matters to panic sellers lol) -----> they wait for 3 - 6 confirmations before you can sell your coins With green-addresses, secure bitcoin signing tags, and increased off-chain transactions, this will become even less of an issue. When do you find confirmation times to be a problem? Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: nwfella on June 23, 2014, 07:28:54 AM Cashing btc to coinbase I can confirm happens instantly. Well, at least the btc hitting coinbase that is.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: zimmah on June 23, 2014, 08:39:29 AM Hello, I've been doing a lot of research on bitcoin and its weaknesses. I realize that bitcoin is software and that anything about it can be changed. After using it for a few months, I think the greatest annoyance is the long transaction times. For large purchases such as transferring money or purchasing a house, the transaction times are fine, but if bitcoin is to really take off in day to day life, it needs much faster transaction times. No one will want to wait around for 15 minutes for confirmations. My question is, since bitcoin is software, will the transaction times be decreased in the future? I think they absolutely must be or else another cryptocurrency will come along and do it. No, satoshi himself said about transaction times that they are perfect like this. Shorter times would be more vurnerable to attacks. Also, for reasonably small transactions like groceries it's not needed to wait for conformations, as the hassle of double spending (which is not as easy as many people make believe) is not worth it for small transactions. Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: blatchcorn on June 23, 2014, 08:41:15 AM Compared to debit/credit cards, which take days for the money to transfer, bitcoin is much faster. With bitcoin the money is actually moving, not just being confirmed like old school payment methods.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: Mayuyu48 on June 23, 2014, 08:43:24 AM Hello, 10-15 minutes is really faster for online transactionI've been doing a lot of research on bitcoin and its weaknesses. I realize that bitcoin is software and that anything about it can be changed. After using it for a few months, I think the greatest annoyance is the long transaction times. For large purchases such as transferring money or purchasing a house, the transaction times are fine, but if bitcoin is to really take off in day to day life, it needs much faster transaction times. No one will want to wait around for 15 minutes for confirmations. My question is, since bitcoin is software, will the transaction times be decreased in the future? I think they absolutely must be or else another cryptocurrency will come along and do it. but for offline transaction, is long enough for example you buy a cup of coffee using BTC, you must wait until 10-15 minutes maybe we must pay at first and wait that bitcoin payment confirmed while we drink coffee ;D Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: Willisius on June 23, 2014, 09:12:27 AM Hello, I've been doing a lot of research on bitcoin and its weaknesses. I realize that bitcoin is software and that anything about it can be changed. After using it for a few months, I think the greatest annoyance is the long transaction times. For large purchases such as transferring money or purchasing a house, the transaction times are fine, but if bitcoin is to really take off in day to day life, it needs much faster transaction times. No one will want to wait around for 15 minutes for confirmations. My question is, since bitcoin is software, will the transaction times be decreased in the future? I think they absolutely must be or else another cryptocurrency will come along and do it. No, satoshi himself said about transaction times that they are perfect like this. Shorter times would be more vurnerable to attacks. Also, for reasonably small transactions like groceries it's not needed to wait for conformations, as the hassle of double spending (which is not as easy as many people make believe) is not worth it for small transactions. I've had similar questions and I'd like to see this. Do you have a link to where satoshi said that? Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: BTCjust on June 23, 2014, 09:13:44 AM Online shopping longer waiting time
Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: allyouracid on June 23, 2014, 09:18:23 AM Hello, I somewhat agree on this. Just this morning, i was sending bitcoins to an exchange, and being used to the fast transaction times of Ultracoin, it was kind of a very long time to wait. Especially when it comes down to trading at good prices, the time it takes to confirm 4x can become an eternity.I've been doing a lot of research on bitcoin and its weaknesses. I realize that bitcoin is software and that anything about it can be changed. After using it for a few months, I think the greatest annoyance is the long transaction times. For large purchases such as transferring money or purchasing a house, the transaction times are fine, but if bitcoin is to really take off in day to day life, it needs much faster transaction times. No one will want to wait around for 15 minutes for confirmations. My question is, since bitcoin is software, will the transaction times be decreased in the future? I think they absolutely must be or else another cryptocurrency will come along and do it. Question is probably about security. Decreasing block times also means decreasing security, if i remember correctly. Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: CoinATMRadar on June 23, 2014, 10:08:54 AM for example you buy a cup of coffee using BTC, you must wait until 10-15 minutes maybe we must pay at first and wait that bitcoin payment confirmed while we drink coffee ;D No, payment is done immediately and the shop receives it immediately, you don't have to wait at all. as said before by others - the only question is a trust to this transaction, for which you need to wait for any confirmations. But as it is something not that simple to make a double spend - nobody would try to do this for a cup of coffee. This is similar like creating a fake credit card to go to pay for you coffee, definitely this is possible today, but nobody does it. Same with Bitcoin. Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: franky1 on June 23, 2014, 11:39:42 AM credit cards, debit cards do not confirm transactions in seconds. they do not prevent double spends in seconds.
when you swipe your card the system just balance checks you. similar to anyon that can (while zero confirm) check the balance of the tx input. with credit cards/debitcards it can take weeks to sort out and confirm transaction. bitcoin is just 10 minutes. also to note most credit card transactions over a certain amount sometimes leads to retailers phoning their card processor to authorise payment. or the customers bank flags up the large TX and phones customers registered number to authorise payment. bitcoin doesnt. the downside of bitcoin is not the time but the risk that within 10 minutes the customer can move funds and make the tx to the retailer, useless. but this usually requires the customer tailor making signed transactions ready to abuse the system before purchase (juggling 2 phones in a starbucks cafe seems obvious and with CCTV (security camera's) its not worth the attempt for just a coffee, so in short most small purchases can get away with accepting zero confirms, based on just seeing a balance movement Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: ranochigo on June 23, 2014, 12:17:02 PM Hello, I don't think this can affect a lot of users. Transaction times are hardcoded into the system itself, in order to alter it, a fork must happen. There is no need for this to happen as compared to most purchases done online, this is actually the fastest payment method. Some merchants offer faster confirmations feature by waiting a few minutes to make sure it is fully populated, the risk would be lesser compared to those who consider it as paid immediately when they see the transaction. Disabling incoming connections, only connect to well connected nodes is a precaution the merchants can take.I've been doing a lot of research on bitcoin and its weaknesses. I realize that bitcoin is software and that anything about it can be changed. After using it for a few months, I think the greatest annoyance is the long transaction times. For large purchases such as transferring money or purchasing a house, the transaction times are fine, but if bitcoin is to really take off in day to day life, it needs much faster transaction times. No one will want to wait around for 15 minutes for confirmations. My question is, since bitcoin is software, will the transaction times be decreased in the future? I think they absolutely must be or else another cryptocurrency will come along and do it. Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: Mayuyu48 on June 23, 2014, 03:44:08 PM for example you buy a cup of coffee using BTC, you must wait until 10-15 minutes maybe we must pay at first and wait that bitcoin payment confirmed while we drink coffee ;D No, payment is done immediately and the shop receives it immediately, you don't have to wait at all. as said before by others - the only question is a trust to this transaction, for which you need to wait for any confirmations. But as it is something not that simple to make a double spend - nobody would try to do this for a cup of coffee. This is similar like creating a fake credit card to go to pay for you coffee, definitely this is possible today, but nobody does it. Same with Bitcoin. many merchant need some confirmations to make transaction done agree, nobody will do like that just or a cup of coffee so we can trust this transaction Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: rext on June 23, 2014, 05:11:36 PM if the processing time could be reduced to like 1 min, then the person could use that 1 min to brew that nice hot coffee for you.
That would be just right. Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: AceWallen on June 23, 2014, 05:21:59 PM everytime i've paid with bitcoin -- which is generally through Bitpay -- the transaction is instant/zero-confirmation, assuming i have sent an adequate miner's fee.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: QuestionAuthority on June 23, 2014, 05:25:51 PM everytime i've paid with bitcoin -- which is generally through Bitpay -- the transaction is instant/zero-confirmation, assuming i have sent an adequate miner's fee. That's right, zero confirm transactions are the way to speed things along but they do come with a risk. BTW OP, do you really have banana nipples? Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: rext on June 23, 2014, 05:28:24 PM lol do you seriously want to know.
anyway AceWallen, got to love bitpay for that, instant speed transaction, me likes. Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: jbrnt on June 23, 2014, 05:30:01 PM This topic comes up I lot. Some would with be content with accepting zero confirmation transaction as a solution, other would suggest an off-chain payment agent. Either way, transaction confirmation times will not be a problem when bitcoin takes root in high street retailers.
Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: QuestionAuthority on June 23, 2014, 05:37:21 PM lol do you seriously want to know. anyway AceWallen, got to love bitpay for that, instant speed transaction, me likes. Yeah, I think she should link to a bucket pic somewhere. Tits or gtfo. BitPay and other companies are getting rich by taking on the risk of instant transactions. I wonder what their losses actually are? I bet it's petty small. Title: Re: Bitcoin transaction times Post by: railzand on June 23, 2014, 08:14:06 PM Hello, I've been doing a lot of research on bitcoin and its weaknesses. I realize that bitcoin is software and that anything about it can be changed. After using it for a few months, I think the greatest annoyance is the long transaction times. For large purchases such as transferring money or purchasing a house, the transaction times are fine, but if bitcoin is to really take off in day to day life, it needs much faster transaction times. No one will want to wait around for 15 minutes for confirmations. My question is, since bitcoin is software, will the transaction times be decreased in the future? I think they absolutely must be or else another cryptocurrency will come along and do it. No, satoshi himself said about transaction times that they are perfect like this. Shorter times would be more vurnerable to attacks. Also, for reasonably small transactions like groceries it's not needed to wait for conformations, as the hassle of double spending (which is not as easy as many people make believe) is not worth it for small transactions. I've had similar questions and I'd like to see this. Do you have a link to where satoshi said that? I believe it'll be possible for a payment processing company to provide as a service the rapid distribution of transactions with good-enough checking in something like 10 seconds or less. The network nodes only accept the first version of a transaction they receive to incorporate into the block they're trying to generate. When you broadcast a transaction, if someone else broadcasts a double-spend at the same time, it's a race to propagate to the most nodes first. If one has a slight head start, it'll geometrically spread through the network faster and get most of the nodes. A rough back-of-the-envelope example: 1 0 4 1 16 4 64 16 80% 20% So if a double-spend has to wait even a second, it has a huge disadvantage. The payment processor has connections with many nodes. When it gets a transaction, it blasts it out, and at the same time monitors the network for double-spends. If it receives a double-spend on any of its many listening nodes, then it alerts that the transaction is bad. A double-spent transaction wouldn't get very far without one of the listeners hearing it. The double-spender would have to wait until the listening phase is over, but by then, the payment processor's broadcast has reached most nodes, or is so far ahead in propagating that the double-spender has no hope of grabbing a significant percentage of the remaining nodes. |