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Other => Politics & Society => Topic started by: TheIrishman on June 24, 2014, 09:41:42 AM



Title: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: TheIrishman on June 24, 2014, 09:41:42 AM
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/6/23/1403552477606/ca29770c-e6a2-4551-8b3e-3b502fe4c9ba-460x276.jpeg http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2014/6/23/1403552516394/d13af16e-bd4d-43f0-8c85-1ed02623d857-460x276.jpeg

US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report

http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/jun/24/military-us-police-swat-teams-raids-aclu (http://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/jun/24/military-us-police-swat-teams-raids-aclu)

<< ACLU cites soaring use of war zone equipment and tactics. Swat teams increasingly deployed in local police raids. Seven civilians killed and 46 injured in incidents since 2010. >>


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: bitsmichel on June 24, 2014, 12:43:38 PM
Looks like a SWAT team. If you look closely the guys are carrying machine guns, a pistol and some other weapons.
I'm rather surprised they come with a type of Humvee instead of a Tank  :D


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: sana8410 on June 24, 2014, 12:59:41 PM
This is happening all over the world. Our own police regularly batter peoples doors in under the slenderest of pretexts. It just goes to show me that the police have gone from being protectors of us to protectors of the Government.
Where do they find these thugs who love to beat up their fellow citizens? We see them in Egypt, Turkey and anywhere else that the population try to exercise their rights. Even here with the police desire to kettle us all whether you are involved or not. Is there any redress? Not at all.
They say that like breeds like and I do know that there are some nasty people out there but to treat us all like that is an abomination. Whatever happened to the knock on the door? I had a great respect for the police when I was a lad but I am afraid they are doing themselves no favors.
Osama Bin Laden did more damage with his 9/11 attack than he could ever have imagined.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: Lethn on June 24, 2014, 01:00:43 PM
This kind of thing is exactly why I'm on the side of the so called 'gun nuts' when it comes to gun control, how can people say with a straight face especially the U.S government that they aren't necessary and they aren't going to take them away when the police are stocking up on fucking machine guns and APCs lol :P

It's a bit like when Russians rolled into the Ukraine and we all knew who they were because of how shifty they looked and they said "We're not Russians *glance*" to be honest, at least the UK police aren't getting ready to gun us down yet so they seem to have at least some restraint.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: Rigon on June 24, 2014, 01:04:30 PM
Many police departments love the war on drugs because they can steal peoples assets and get to use the money to pay salaries and buy more guns. That is a driver for the huge increase in the swat style raids.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: noviapriani on June 24, 2014, 01:04:43 PM
This is happening all over the world. Our own police regularly batter peoples doors in under the slenderest of pretexts. It just goes to show me that the police have gone from being protectors of us to protectors of the Government.
Where do they find these thugs who love to beat up their fellow citizens? We see them in Egypt, Turkey and anywhere else that the population try to exercise their rights. Even here with the police desire to kettle us all whether you are involved or not. Is there any redress? Not at all.
They say that like breeds like and I do know that there are some nasty people out there but to treat us all like that is an abomination. Whatever happened to the knock on the door? I had a great respect for the police when I was a lad but I am afraid they are doing themselves no favors.
Osama Bin Laden did more damage with his 9/11 attack than he could ever have imagined.
Seems like 9/11 changed more than just International laws.. Now, even the citizens are considered a threat. Strange days indeed. Seeing how the US government always bangs on about how important it's citizens are and what they'll do to protect them, especially after 9/11....the sad thing is there are many who still think the government is protecting them.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: bitsmichel on June 24, 2014, 01:06:57 PM
This is happening all over the world. Our own police regularly batter peoples doors in under the slenderest of pretexts. It just goes to show me that the police have gone from being protectors of us to protectors of the Government.
Where do they find these thugs who love to beat up their fellow citizens? We see them in Egypt, Turkey and anywhere else that the population try to exercise their rights. Even here with the police desire to kettle us all whether you are involved or not. Is there any redress? Not at all.
They say that like breeds like and I do know that there are some nasty people out there but to treat us all like that is an abomination. Whatever happened to the knock on the door? I had a great respect for the police when I was a lad but I am afraid they are doing themselves no favors.
Osama Bin Laden did more damage with his 9/11 attack than he could ever have imagined.

He who controls the money controls the people. Governments seem to increase military spending everywhere around the world.

Quote
Many police departments love the war on drugs because they can steal peoples assets and get to use the money to pay salaries and buy more guns. That is a driver for the huge increase in the swat style raids.

Sounds more like organized mafia to me


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: spazzdla on June 24, 2014, 01:43:18 PM
This is happening all over the world. Our own police regularly batter peoples doors in under the slenderest of pretexts. It just goes to show me that the police have gone from being protectors of us to protectors of the Government.
Where do they find these thugs who love to beat up their fellow citizens? We see them in Egypt, Turkey and anywhere else that the population try to exercise their rights. Even here with the police desire to kettle us all whether you are involved or not. Is there any redress? Not at all.
They say that like breeds like and I do know that there are some nasty people out there but to treat us all like that is an abomination. Whatever happened to the knock on the door? I had a great respect for the police when I was a lad but I am afraid they are doing themselves no favors.
Osama Bin Laden did more damage with his 9/11 attack than he could ever have imagined.

A man will a few million dollars launched an attack that would of cost trillions upon trillions to pull off?  I have issues with this idea.

I agree completely with the rest of what you said.. the media is also spining as many postive police stories as they can...  These things have me nervious.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: umair127 on June 24, 2014, 02:02:33 PM
You may ask, what kind of country would do these things to its own citizens? The answer is, the kind of country that engages in mass surveillance, has by far the largest per-capita prison population on the planet where tens-of-thousands of prisoners are kept in permanent solitary confinement, and in which being sassy to an airport homeland security goon will get you a rectal search as punishment – in short, a police state.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: RodeoX on June 24, 2014, 02:09:48 PM
I find this disturbing. My father was a cop and he was also concerned about the militarization of the police. He would rant about how irrelevant military experience was. About how his gun was his least useful tool.
What about your pen, your people skills, or your radio? These are the tools a cop uses every day. If your a lucky cop, you'll never have to use your gun.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: zolace on June 24, 2014, 02:27:32 PM
I seem to recall, and maybe it isn't true anymore, that drug dealer's asset seizures went directly into police budgets since the early nineties. A Bush/Clinton initiative. If asset forfeitures are used to buy weapons to target dealers to garner assets then it would be a perfect Public Choice Theory feedback loop in action.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: spazzdla on June 24, 2014, 03:09:58 PM
You may ask, what kind of country would do these things to its own citizens? The answer is, the kind of country that engages in mass surveillance, has by far the largest per-capita prison population on the planet where tens-of-thousands of prisoners are kept in permanent solitary confinement, and in which being sassy to an airport homeland security goon will get you a rectal search as punishment – in short, a police state.

I fear they will solidify the police state idea very soon... 


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: Chef Ramsay on June 24, 2014, 05:29:04 PM
So much for the Posse Comitatus law of 1898 which forbids which forbids the use of the military on US soil. Militarizing the police is mostly their way around it. Just blend in til ya can get out.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: hologram on June 24, 2014, 07:32:36 PM
Posse Comitatus law of 1898 which forbids which forbids the use of the military on US soil.

It was a great idea. I think in western we have forget what the great philosopher of the past wanted we remind, to take care of government and to keep it small. 20th century ideology was all about an enormous government, we need to get rid of them.

It's funny to see how big government fanboy do not support the logic militarization it need...


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: Benjig on June 24, 2014, 07:47:33 PM
As if the police weren't already powerful enough, and what happens over there will surely follow over here, sooner or later.
But what can you expect; we just don't have enough wars to keep the military-industrial complex happy so why not declare war on our own citizens.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: film2240 on June 24, 2014, 08:39:17 PM
This kind of thing is exactly why I'm on the side of the so called 'gun nuts' when it comes to gun control, how can people say with a straight face especially the U.S government that they aren't necessary and they aren't going to take them away when the police are stocking up on fucking machine guns and APCs lol :P

It's a bit like when Russians rolled into the Ukraine and we all knew who they were because of how shifty they looked and they said "We're not Russians *glance*" to be honest, at least the UK police aren't getting ready to gun us down yet so they seem to have at least some restraint.
The UK police in London are planning to use water cannons for future protests so I think that trend has now reached UK police (thankfully the police still don't have guns but that day will come sooner or later).I think if the police will adopt water cannons now,why not use guns next?I'm quite concerned about this development.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: Benjig on June 25, 2014, 02:31:32 AM
And the thing that the US government wants to disarm US citizens doesnt smell good, if they are doing nothing wrong why they fear the citizens to have guns.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: commandrix on June 25, 2014, 02:58:37 AM
I wonder how long it'll take before the redneck hippie gun-toting crowd simply decide to stage another American Civil War, and this time the South ain't gonna bring picnic baskets to watch the show. And they wonder why the normal, average American citizen still stands up for the Bill of Rights, especially the Second Amendment.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: Cicero2.0 on June 25, 2014, 03:16:50 AM
When police departments get millions of dollars for "homeland security" they tend to spend it on weapons. Add in the seizure of property and you get out of control law enforcement. 


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: iopq on June 25, 2014, 05:27:09 AM

And that is how we're getting stuff like this happening now:

"A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son"
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: TheIrishman on June 25, 2014, 05:47:30 AM
And that is how we're getting stuff like this happening now:

"A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son"
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/

The more I learn about people, the more I love my dog.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: pungopete468 on June 25, 2014, 06:27:46 AM

And that is how we're getting stuff like this happening now:

"A SWAT team blew a hole in my 2-year-old son"
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/

To them it's just a little bit of "collateral damage." If they had to raid another house tomorrow they would do it the same way over again...

How many babies, children, or innocent citizens need to be shot, incinerated, maimed, or murdered by militant police before the general public decides that this problem needs to be solved NOW.

Seriously, these tactics need to change immediately.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: DrG on June 25, 2014, 08:50:53 AM
As a kid I did police ride alongs and respected LEO like it was the word of God.  Having grown up and seen the stories of what crooked LEOs do I don't feel that way anymore.  Living in Los Angeles I can see the need for some of these types of tools like Hum-Vs, heavy machines guns, etc.  When you see what gets turned in when they have the gun buyback program you would be shocked (well maybe not if you're ex-mil).  They will regularly get anti-tank weapon, anti-air guns and even got a SAM this past year.  And LA formerly being the bank robbery capitol we get this every couple of months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ZwIrIB1is (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ZwIrIB1is)

We're also seeing beheadings thanks to MS13 and other drug cartel gangs in the area these days.  Unfortunately, until the gangsters tone down their weaponry, SWAT (which BTW was more or less pioneered in Los Angeles thanks to all the wackos here) will always have to keep up.

I really need to get some guns and learn how to defend my house but until that happens I'm calling 911 and relying on their training to possibly keep me alive.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: cryptasm on June 25, 2014, 11:34:28 AM
Also doesn't help that increasing numbers of the US police are war vets who are used to fighting in warzones, what could go wrong with trained killers upholding the law in a civilian environment?


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: bitsmichel on June 25, 2014, 11:53:20 AM
As a kid I did police ride alongs and respected LEO like it was the word of God.  Having grown up and seen the stories of what crooked LEOs do I don't feel that way anymore.  Living in Los Angeles I can see the need for some of these types of tools like Hum-Vs, heavy machines guns, etc.  When you see what gets turned in when they have the gun buyback program you would be shocked (well maybe not if you're ex-mil).  They will regularly get anti-tank weapon, anti-air guns and even got a SAM this past year.  And LA formerly being the bank robbery capitol we get this every couple of months:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ZwIrIB1is (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ZwIrIB1is)

We're also seeing beheadings thanks to MS13 and other drug cartel gangs in the area these days.  Unfortunately, until the gangsters tone down their weaponry, SWAT (which BTW was more or less pioneered in Los Angeles thanks to all the wackos here) will always have to keep up.

I really need to get some guns and learn how to defend my house but until that happens I'm calling 911 and relying on their training to possibly keep me alive.

I think you could do with a normal police patrol for the most part. In such cases as you mentioned, you could send in the army.
Also note that all of the police force is wearing black - this does not look particularly friendly to citizens.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: RiverBoatBTC on June 25, 2014, 02:52:34 PM
Just seen this
http://www.salon.com/2014/06/24/a_swat_team_blew_a_hole_in_my_2_year_old_son/

Quote
After our house burned down in Wisconsin a few months ago, my husband and I packed our four young kids and all our belongings into a gold minivan and drove to my sister-in-law’s place, just outside of Atlanta. On the back windshield, we pasted six stick figures: a dad, a mom, three young girls, and one baby boy.

That minivan was sitting in the front driveway of my sister-in-law’s place the night a SWAT team broke in, looking for a small amount of drugs they thought my husband’s nephew had. Some of my kids’ toys were in the front yard, but the officers claimed they had no way of knowing children might be present. Our whole family was sleeping in the same room, one bed for us, one for the girls, and a crib.

After the SWAT team broke down the door, they threw a flashbang grenade inside. It landed in my son’s crib.

Flashbang grenades were created for soldiers to use during battle. When they explode, the noise is so loud and the flash is so bright that anyone close by is temporarily blinded and deafened. It’s been three weeks since the flashbang exploded next to my sleeping baby, and he’s still covered in burns.

There’s still a hole in his chest that exposes his ribs. At least that’s what I’ve been told; I’m afraid to look.

My husband’s nephew, the one they were looking for, wasn’t there. He doesn’t even live in that house. After breaking down the door, throwing my husband to the ground, and screaming at my children, the officers – armed with M16s – filed through the house like they were playing war. They searched for drugs and never found any.

I heard my baby wailing and asked one of the officers to let me hold him. He screamed at me to sit down and shut up and blocked my view, so I couldn’t see my son. I could see a singed crib. And I could see a pool of blood. The officers yelled at me to calm down and told me my son was fine, that he’d just lost a tooth. It was only hours later when they finally let us drive to the hospital that we found out Bou Bou was in the intensive burn unit and that he’d been placed into a medically induced coma.

For the last three weeks, my husband and I have been sleeping at the hospital. We tell our son that we love him and we’ll never leave him behind. His car seat is still in the minivan, right where it’s always been, and we whisper to him that soon we’ll be taking him home with us.

Every morning, I have to face the reality that my son is fighting for his life. It’s not clear whether he’ll live or die. All of this to find a small amount of drugs?

The only silver lining I can possibly see is that my baby Bou Bou’s story might make us angry enough that we stop accepting brutal SWAT raids as a normal way to fight the “war on drugs.” I know that this has happened to other families, here in Georgia and across the country. I know that SWAT teams are breaking into homes in the middle of the night, more often than not just to serve search warrants in drug cases. I know that too many local cops have stockpiled weapons that were made for soldiers to take to war. And as is usually the case with aggressive policing, I know that people of color and poor people are more likely to be targeted.  I know these things because of the American Civil Liberties Union’s new report, and because I’m working with them to push for restraints on the use of SWAT.

A few nights ago, my 8-year-old woke up in the middle of the night screaming, “No, don’t kill him! You’re hurting my brother! Don’t kill him.” How can I ever make that go away? I used to tell my kids that if they were ever in trouble, they should go to the police for help. Now my kids don’t want to go to sleep at night because they’re afraid the cops will kill them or their family. It’s time to remind the cops that they should be serving and protecting our neighborhoods, not waging war on the people in them.

I pray every minute that I’ll get to hear my son’s laugh again, that I’ll get to watch him eat French fries or hear him sing his favorite song from “Frozen.” I’d give anything to watch him chase after his sisters again. I want justice for my baby, and that means making sure no other family ever has to feel this horrible pain.

Update: As of the afternoon of 6/24/2014, Baby Bou Bou has been taken out of the medically induced coma and transferred to a new hospital to begin rehabilitation. The hole in his chest has yet to heal, and doctors are still not able to fully assess lasting brain damage.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: Spendulus on June 26, 2014, 01:34:06 AM
Many police departments love the war on drugs because they can steal peoples assets and get to use the money to pay salaries and buy more guns. That is a driver for the huge increase in the swat style raids.
You mean the fraction of the cash that GETS to the department?


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: Spendulus on June 26, 2014, 01:41:10 AM
Also doesn't help that increasing numbers of the US police are war vets who are used to fighting in warzones, what could go wrong with trained killers upholding the law in a civilian environment?

Um....

It's more the reverse of that.  Soldiers KNOW the limitations on effective use of military force.

The problem is what I call "Johnny-Soldier-Wanna-Be" types, cops who think is cool and better to be on a SWAT team, outfitted with military gear, than doing traffic patrol.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: ALToids on June 26, 2014, 05:28:45 AM
Also doesn't help that increasing numbers of the US police are war vets who are used to fighting in warzones, what could go wrong with trained killers upholding the law in a civilian environment?

Um....

It's more the reverse of that.  Soldiers KNOW the limitations on effective use of military force.

The problem is what I call "Johnny-Soldier-Wanna-Be" types, cops who think is cool and better to be on a SWAT team, outfitted with military gear, than doing traffic patrol.

This.  With the exception of PTSD soldiers I think they would be much better police.  The mark of a good soldier is not knowing how to use a gun but knowing when not to use one.


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: iopq on June 26, 2014, 07:05:23 AM

And if you think militarization is not frightening enough, you would be pleased to know that the police force actually rejects applicants who score too high on an IQ test.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/01/too-smart-to-be-a-good-cop/

 :-[


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: bitsmichel on June 26, 2014, 09:19:18 AM

And if you think militarization is not frightening enough, you would be pleased to know that the police force actually rejects applicants who score too high on an IQ test.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2012/01/too-smart-to-be-a-good-cop/

 :-[

Higher IQ score than 110 is not allowed?  ???
I cannot join the police force then... unless I fake the test 


Title: Re: US police departments are increasingly militarised, finds report
Post by: Swordsoffreedom on June 26, 2014, 10:30:44 AM
Nothing like a school bus followed by a police/military escort
They kind of looked like paramilitary troops or a Swat team
Guess that the world is becoming a lot more full of fear of the unknown and the police feel they need to stock up as well.
That or they get a lot of free stuff from mafia raids and are just recycling the equipment
Cars/Weapons Body armor stun grenades you name it at one time or another some cops somewhere raided it lol.
Also stun grenade in a babies face not cool not cool at all