Bitcoin Forum

Over the last few years a large number of people were fortunate enough to buy in when Bitcoin was priced at $35 and sell when it reached $1000

http://www.ahametals.com/bitcoin-might-soon-make-401k-obsolete/ (http://www.ahametals.com/bitcoin-might-soon-make-401k-obsolete/)

Most Americans don't have any wealth worth mentioning in their 401k. The bottom 50% of Americans own only one half of one percent of all stocks, bonds, and mutual funds. The top 1% own 50%.

So if we even HAVE a 401k, it is already "obsolete" for the vast majority of us wage slaves. We aren't truly investing, we're only just scraping by.

https://i.imgur.com/qECweUz.png

Learn more... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM#t=5m15s)

Do they all personally know these 'large numbers' of people who bought at $35 and sold at $1000?

If we're going for exact adherence to those figures I'm going to postulate that 19 people in the entire world bought at exactly 35 and sold at 1000.

Very few people who bought at 35 USD have sold at 1000 USD. Most of them sold when it touched 100 USD and most of the rest are still holding. They have no plan to sell in near future.

I bought at 145, holding till 145,000 $

That 1000% profit!  ;D

Likewise, there were MORE people that didn't get a chance to buy in at $35. There is absolutely no correlation to the amount of bitcoin holding and 401k. For those that bought in at cheap btc, you won't be able to know if they have a 401k or not. On the other hand, if you have a 401k, there's no telling whether you hold bitcoins or not.

The way things are going with the world economy, I'll place my bet that it won't be too long until they rename the 401k to 0k.

This does kind of point out the disparity in wealth and the low wealth of average people. We not only hold the least wealth but they are also shrinking our purchasing power every day.   

For me it already has made 401ks obsolete on the fact that you can move your money around with no red tape in the way.

Problem with 401K is that it's not inflation proof.  Your Grandmother, presumably if she's old enough, likely remembers when she only paid $0.05 for a Coca Cola in a restaurant; whereas today, a Coca Cola costs up to $2 (if not $3 in a bar).  Coca Cola increased 40 to 60 times within generational memory.  The samething will happen to your 401K - it'll decrease in value by 20 to 60 times by the time you collect.


Pensions suffer the same issue too, I might add, unless you have an indexed pension like government workers.  The reality is most of us will probably die from starvation in our old age due to not having any money, unless we manage to keep a job somehow.  

That's the reality of inflation, folks.  Back in the age of prosperity, when currencies did not inflate to the moon, it wasn't uncommon for people to retire in their 50s.  It's a dystopian society if we are working people to death, especially when this is contrasted by all the Paris Hiltons and other capital owning parasites

Bitcoin will make investing directly into assets much easier without going through brokers and fund managers. Hopefully the popular business model will be operational transparency; and profitability will no longer be dependent on accounting tricks. People will invest in their neighbors and support their communities. There will still be some risky investments, but Bitcoin could bring about a new "Builder Generation."

Those indexed pensions are part of the reason cities are going broke. The current rate of devaluation is just not sustainable. It is an abhorrent system that destroys the wealth of the many to benefit the few.   

Bitcoin in fact made my own 401k obsolete the minute I found out about it!  :)

people can invest 401k etc straight into secondmarket bitcoin fund

https://twitter.com/barrysilbert/status/482234862909145088
http://www.etftrends.com/2014/06/the-bitcoin-etf-you-havent-heard-about/

I bought at $5.  Sold at various points between $181 and $950

There were very few people who bought at ＄35. After 10 years the price will be ＄10K for 1 BTC, I think there will be many people who will regret not to buy at ＄500. I t doesn't matter if you have got 401k now, you can invest a small amount of fiat to bitcoin and wait for your retirement. We don't need to care about the price fluctuation of price everyday.  

Bitcoins in a 401k is are just IOUs, you don't own the coins, but the 401k fund does. Better invest after-tax money, no one can confiscate your coins. ;)

 

it is very important to diversify your retirement assets. Investing all of your money in bitcoin would be very risky.

For most people it would likely be a bad idea to put any retirement funds in bitcoin

I'm not liquidating my retirement fund in favor of bit coin just yet, but as my purchasing power shrinks over time it might be something worth thinking about. It is just too new to put all of my eggs into one basket just yet.

Man I hope so, we desperately need it...

As far as long term-retirement fund options go, I can't think of anything better than Bitcoin.

This chart is depressing.

Well it's the Pareto rule.  Eventually the wealth is owned by a minority.

  In former Soviet bloc they implemented capitalization and wealth was evenly distributed (even to children) in the form of voucher privatization.   They also received their residences for free too, IIRC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voucher_privatization  

It would be like everyone's mortgage in America being paid off, get a free summer cabin and everyone (including your kids) receiving $200K in equity in multiple companies.  So if you have 4 kids and a wife, your family would get $1.2 million overnight plus your properties.

 Wealth equalization is great but hey, wait a second, why's Eastern Europe so broke and depressed?

  What happened in the east?  People sold their vouchers for vodka, food ,cars..  the vouchers were dumped (like people dumping Bitcoin and stocks) and this essentially crashed every economy in Eastern Europe.  

Eastern Europe economy was essentially a real life aurora coin.   ;D  "Air drop" didn't work in the 1990s and didn't work in 2014.   8)

No, that's 1000x profit, or 100,000%.

I am also saving my money in bitcoins! (And also other altcoins). For now I am not sory at all. :)

To be exact, 99000%

You never want to put all your eggs in the same basket anyway. Diversifying is not just a healthy strategy, it should be obligatory.

Bitcoin has many advantages, but as I see it most of them are at the same time disadvantages too.

Less red tape? Less protection (such as it is) from the state too.
You can "invest" in "assets" directly and cut the middle man? Yes, but that broker or fund manager does or should actually do a lot of checking beforehand and is more educated in financial matters than 80-90% of people out there.
Etc.

My point being bitcoin is a world changer, and I see it as the precursor to a really neat online contract system, as well as a fast internet payment system (pay for digital goods or services quickly) or even a means to move a lot of value very quickly from one place to the other.

But replacing money? Being better than a state approved pension system? Not likely.

401K's usually have a company matching contribution. Sometimes the company match is 100% of what you put in. In these cases it usually pays to maintain a 401K while you are working just for the free money. When you leave the company, you could cash out, pay the taxes/penalties, and buy BTC with what is left. Or roll everything over into a self-directed IRA.

Touché ..right..100,000% roi I guess you could say

No, that will be a 100.000% proffit.

1000% will be selling at 1450 $

Wow, need a math lesson much?   ;D

The correct answer is 99900% profit

Cost = 145
Sold for = 145000
Profit = Sold for - Cost = 144855
Profit % = Profit / Cost * 100 = 99900%

lol... I miss the calculation .. I suck at math really.. xD

By the time you make that much, you will be hiring people to do that for you.

 ;D thats a plan!

Sorry about that. Reality is depressing. But, collectively, we do have the power to make it less so.

Don't count on me for anything. You and your ideas sound like a complete nut job and bullshit.

Holy Sh*t.   Does that mean there are people who could have saved Coca Cola in bottles when they purchased them in the 50s and can now sell them for 4000% profit?  Where are these early adopter soft drink mavens?  They found the secret to beating inflation.

Inflation is certainly a problem, but comparing the last 50 years with the next is not meaningful economics.

you should hodl until $21,000,000 so you wouldn't have any regrets

If your purchasing power is shrinking you're doing it wrong. It has been the best stock market in the last 5 years and almost a challenge to not compound faster than inflation..

This will not continue to be the case as QE has influenced returns greatly. This would also not apply to you if you were to able to invest additional amounts into the market over the last 5 years (or large amounts as a percentage of your total portfolio). If you are decades into your career then you would hopefully have a substantial retirement fund saved as of 5 years ago, so the new money that you contribute will do well but the rest would not as a lot of the returns would simply be recovering the losses from the bear market

The price of a soda varies very widely from restaurant to restaurant. The vast majority of restaurants also offer something called "free refills" today, while this was likely not the case when Coca Cola cost $0.05 (fountain drinks technology was not available at this time, and it was always sold in bottles), so when you pay "$2" at a restaurant you are really paying a total of $2 for as many Coca Colas as you drink while you are at the restaurant.

The value of 401k's is based on the investments in the account. It is the goal of these investments to beat inflation. In 1914 the Dow Jones Industrial average (DJIA) was at ~71 (for rounding we can call it 100), as of yesterday the DJIA closed at 16851.84 (call it 16,000 for rounding). This is a return of 160x verses 60x for your soda example (from 5 cents to $3 at a bar). 

This raises an interesting dilemma... When you assume it's free refills and they double charge you,
do you complain about the bill or let it slide?  :)

What do you mean by double charge me?

Do you mean that the restaurant charges more then they have to charge me? In other words they could charge me $1.50 but charge me $3.00 instead. If this is the case then no I would not say anything as this is their posted price and I have the right to not buy the product (soda in this case) if I so choose.

If you mean that their price is $3.00 for one soda and the server put $6.00 on the bill, then yes I would absolutely say something. There is no reason to pay more for something that what I had agreed to pay. The server would likely be more then happy to remove the extra charge as if she wouldn't then the extra charge would likely come directly out of her tip.