Bitcoin Forum

I'm starting to wonder if this is a bit of a myth or over-statement. I have two rigs with the same exact hardware:

msi 890FXA-GD70
amd sempron 145
2gb ram
seasonic gold psus
2 x 5970's

one with windows 7 32 bit on an old hard drive
one with linuxcoin on 16gb flash drive

using cgminer on both at stock voltage 800/300

windows machine with kill-a-watt - fluctuates at 590-610
linux machine with kill-a-watt - fluctuates at 580-600

mind you, windows machine has 4 extra fans running because it is in a case.

linux machine is open air with two fans behind the cards blowing air through.

all things turned off in bios that i can, except sata stuff on windows machine.

So, where is the significant energy savings again?

When I first used Vista many moons ago with 4GB of RAM it would boot up and use nearly 2GB without using anything just after boot.  When I use Lubuntu it boots into less than 0.25GB of RAM  ???

AFAIK that does not affect power usage at all.

Using 1 GB and 4 GB of RAM on a 4 GB stick = no difference in power at all because all of the RAM on the stick is powered on all the time anyway.

okay, but once running is the power consumption i'm talking about, who cares what it uses for the first 60 seconds. Our dedicated rigs run 24/7 for weeks/months.

I just have felt there is this bias towards linux for power reasons which is unjustified from my own tests. I understand people want linux because it's free, but due to my business, I have plenty of windows licenses to use.

Also, i have found windows to be 10x easier to use and WAY more stable so far. Just the ability to swap out video cards without issue is huge. Every time I did that with linux the system crashed and required me to reload the USB stick.

Also as far as remote access, it is not hard in windows anymore than it is with linux. Gotomypc works fine. Or in my case I can have them all connected to my server at work and access them from anywhere in the world with a nice easy to use GUI.

considering SSD's at 30gb are going for under $50, this whole linux usb thing is not looking too good to me anymore personally.

Can you even boot Windoze from USB? Anyway it's not safe for the average Bitcoin user due to all the malware and viruses.  Plus Linux has proved its stability while Windoze will restart nearly every 24Hrs if you have updates on?

I think Windows 7 can boot from USB.

Even though I am a Linux guy, I think W7 really is smooth from Microsoft and a viable contender to Linux.

Support ( first ever edition to do so ) for TRIM, GPT, UEFI, XP mode, fast, lean etc. much better than Vista and even XP but Linux still is better !

gotta love the FUD.

i would assume this stems from the fact that genreally linux distros are leaner than a windows install and theoretically use less CPU power, maybe less disk access etc

i'm not sure if its true or not but thats my guess

My WIN7 machine with 5x 5830's was up for 3 months before a power outage forced a reset.  Also, I have an expired trial version on there and it still works fine.

My observations from power usage are similar. On the same rig, going between booting USB linux, or Booting w7 from a hard-drive, with BOTH connected simultaneously, yields an overall power advantage to linux of 3-8 watts at the wall.
Linux has been buggy and crashes often in my situation, where windows keeps on trucking along for months so far without issue...

My real power savings come from undervolting/underclocking, which is arbitrary to windows/linux usage...

Last time I checked, you can't install windows to a usb drive.

You are right on that one... You can only install it from a usb drive, at least in my knowledge...

Same specs your right there likely isn't any difference BUT if your smart they won't have the same specs.

I got a 4x5970 rig pushing 3.1GH/s @ 1120W.  You know what the host is?

Sempron Single core underclocked to 1.8Ghz and undervolted 15%.
1 stick of 2GB DDR3 (wattage is per stick loose memory timings and undervolted)
4GB USB drive
MSI 890FXA-GD70 w/ following bios modifications
* SATA Controller - disabled
* Onboard sound - disabled
* Secondary LAN - disabled
* USB 3 - disabled
* EIDE Controller - disabled
* Serial - disabled
* DDR3 - undervolted
* CPU - underclocked & undervolted

Could you install Windows on that rig?

Windows uses more power because you can't use the same rig.  Comparing the same rig is like putting a Hummer engine in a Toyota Prius and saying "see the Prius" doesn't get much better gas mileage.  It is a myth.  :)

Before anyone flames away I am a Microsoft SQL Server Architect.  Microsoft products bring home the bacon for me.  I love Windows7 and .... (shh don't tell the open source guys) .Net too (gasp) but for mining Windows is significantly inferior to a "lean and mean" distro.

So, if I'm following this right, pushing your power consumption lower has more to do with disabling power-consuming features that windows NEEDS to operate (SATA, sound, so forth) and linux doesn't. Other power cuts are derived from undervolting/underclocking, which I could theoretically do with a windows based system too. Am I getting the picture?

This prius analogy reminds me of the double-rotary mod a fellow in my neighborhood did on his Mini-Cooper... You better believe that thing got horrible mileage!

Yeah although I don't think windows 7 will be very responsive with a underclocked/volted single core CPU and 2GB of RAM but who knows.  Maybe if you disable enough eye candy and options services and stuff.

I knows Windows 7 is rock solid with an I-7, 8GB of RAM, and SSD boot drive but I don't use it for mining. :)

Honestly I hate Linux.  I hate just about everything about it.  I hate the esoteric commands.  I hate he weird gotchas.  I hate the package dependencies and the WTF? errors.  Still it mines rock solid and that is what brings in the coins (SSH, screen, wget, and scripting aint too bad either).

I have to attest that my w7 rig IS underclocked, and is slow to respond when trying to use windows, but it refuses to crash and that's what matters to me. Either it's my idiocy, or some hardware baloney, but my rig doesn't like to cooperate much with linux...

And therefore, I hate trying to use it.  :P

So until I start to reach my power limitations on this circuit, I'm good with the trusty old Hummer.

I know you're a windows expert D&T, but without the underclocking of the cpu, my answer is yes, windows 7 would do just fine. I'll be proving it soon.

I'm using old ide drives and they are doing great and they are FREE because people give them to me.

So I can still turn off just as many mobo features on my MSI 890FXA.

F*ck linux unless all you do is IT for a living, it's unstable and sucks. My new windows machines have not stopped running yet.

I just want rigs that never stop running. I can make a shitload more at my real job than I can screwing around with linux distros. I can afford the extra 10 watts if it keeps me away from these machines for a month.

This was a hobby turned nightmare by linux.

My only goal in getting into this was to support a currency outside of the global banking thieves and to have some fun with hardware. software SUCKS...lol

Seriously?

It is really strange to hear you say Linux is not stable. lol

pebkac

Wrong.
 http://ftanada.wordpress.com/2009/02/15/install-windows-7-on-a-usb-stickflash-drive/
 Same with XP.
 And btw XP use less power than Linux or W7. However I have problems with 6870 OpenCL, it doesn't work under XP. And problems with onboard gpu performance in games, all this is working with W7 without troubles, however I'll probably use Linux for my next rig, if its possible there to underclock/undervolt 6 series radeons without problems and if Phoenix support it.

Well I dropped in a FX4100 into one of my GD70s and clocked it down to 800MHz via BIOS (after I installed Win 7 SP1).  Didn't bother to do windows updates or put on an antivirus.  I put on 11.7 drivers, MSI Afterburner and Trixx and managed to get 4 6870s to 970/190MHz.  Rig pulls 580W from the wall (according to my Kill-a-watt) on a 120V line using a Antec Neo Eco 620W PSU (running latest CGMiner and hashing at 1.24GH/s).  It's been running stable for almost 3 months now.  Maybe I should turn off all the Win 7 eye candy, but the rig is a dedicated miner so I don't think it matters.  Maybe I could turn off some services but I don't think it's worth my time.  The only time it seems sluggish is remote login though logmein.

I would have used a cheaper CPU but I got the 4100 and a board for $100 at Microcenter and sold the board for $130 so the CPU cost me -$30 :P

Linux probably can't be beat for peak efficiency but if you don't have time to learn linux Win7 is not a bad option.  The hard drive cost is probably the biggest downside to a Win7 rig.

uhm ... linux or win is running on the cpus while mining is mostly done on the gpus.  ???

So much FUD in this thread it is unbelievable.

Linux being unstable ? LOL.

Read some computer books because your knowledge about OSes sucks.

Okay, unstable was the wrong term. The distro I was using, linuxcoin, proved to be fairly unstable FOR ME. No disrespect to the guy(s) who worked on it as it is great for many people.

Linux is just fine if you know what you're doing. I was mostly pointing to the fact that I don't believe there is a huge power savings and as noob I felt like I was led to believe there was.

Of course, there are added costs to windows rigs, licenses and drives. Drives are coming WAY down, especially the 30gb SSD's. Just bought two for $30 each and they use 2 watts at peak.

Didn't intend to start a windows/linux war. Linux just has driven me insane for months and I think newer miners should know they don't HAVE to go the linux route to be efficient. I lost more money with rigs that wouldn't run than I ever would have if I had just started with windows. Even if I had to buy the licenses and drives.

Just putting this out there for new miners, UPTIME is everything, the rest is negligible when you do the math. Yes, an efficient linux machine might costs $200 less(windows license+drive) but if it doesn't run consistently or you can't get it working for weeks, you've lost more than that already.

I estimate I lost about 300 potentially mined coins screwing around with linux. At current prices that is $1500. Had I started right away and bought 9 SSD's for my rigs at $99 each(64gb) I'd still be ahead since I have the licenses.

even if you buy 7 home premium when it's on sale at newegg for 79.99 and a $50 30Gb ssd that's $130 per rig, still would have only cost $1170 for 9 rigs.

Nevermind, you can sell the windows with a built rig down the road and the SSD. Not so much with used thumb drives.

I'll echo some of the other positions in the thread as well.  While I've honestly yet to try Linux (and heard it's great), I'm simply comfortable using Windows and haven't had any OS problems on any of my rigs at all.  Firewall, antivirus, configured updates and that's it.  Remote w/Logmein and watching a pool and it's so far served as a great check to see things if they're working fine or not.

It might be much faster to set up a system with Linux though, but again, uptime is everything.

My most stable miners were also the easiest to set up, and they run BAMT. lodcrappo did a great job on it.

Run the win7 trial and use the command prompt to do the slmgr -rearm to get extra time...even when it expires it runs fine mining...mine has been expired for 4 months at least and it has only been shut off when the power went out.  Other than that it is solid. 

I run a phenom x4 955 with the MSI gd70 and 5x5830's.  I run 240vac on a dedicated line that connects directly to the breaker panel (originally I was running 4 machines, 14 gpus).

I haven't found any noticeable power difference between linux and windows, but there definitely is a difference in watts used on how hot your gpu's are running. Sometimes adding a fan or two lowers your wattage. that goes for power supply's too they like running cooler. Getting airflow on all sides by a stand or suspending them someway almost always saves 8-10 watts for me

The key in windows is setting your machine to high performance for the set-up phase and then  once your rig is stable, settings are saved in your miner, turn on your lowest power save setting, set it to never sleep or hibernate, but set it to turn off the display after 1 minute(lowest setting). Then you can go into your bios and downclock your cpu, turn off extra motherboard features not being used, usb 3.0, hd audio, 1394 port, motherboard led's etc.

restart and you're good to go.

Also, if you are a student you can a super cheap copy of windows 7 and load it onto as many machines as you want, they are not as strict with those keys.

Oh and set your machine to NOT update ever. Just go in and do it manually if you feel the need.

You also shouldn't need any anti-virus if it's a truly dedicated miner with no bitcoin client/wallet. If you do use one, I think security essentials utilizes the least resources and it's free.

The biggest pain I've run into so far is loading different drivers/SDK combos, but there are plenty of tutorials on that. I just found that mixed cards don't like it much(6xxx with 5xxx series) on the same machine. In linux it doesn't seem to matter at all.

To DrG, I really don't think your RAM truly down clocked if you're getting about 1.2GH/s and 580 watts at the wall, that's only about a 2/1 Mh/W ratio and if you can truly down clock the RAM on those cards you should be able to get to 2.5/1 Mh/W

I have a machine with a 6990 and 6970 with engine at 900, mem at 800 doing 1.2 and pulling 620 at the wall. With no down clocked cpu or mobo features turned off yet(still working on how to really down clock the me on those cards)

So If you really had your mem down clocked to those levels you should be saving 20-30 watts per card.

I've got an Intel Core Duo 2.13ghz that I underclocked to 1.6ghz and disabled a core, but I found that the miners (even at aggression level 8) wouldn't always operate at full efficiency.... I killed off all the extraneous services, processes, etc... but it was still using a decent amt of CPU cycle..   

So now both cores are active & agg is 9 & the mhash isn't flopping around like it used to.

Well I did see the discussions here about people stating they set memory to 300 or some lower number but GPU-Z reported it still at stock clocks.  So I reinstalled a rig today to free up a 2TB HD.  On my Kill-a-watt it reads 680 Watts at load for 4 6870s with 955/1050.  I let the system run for 10 min to reach operating temps.  When I drop them all down to 955/185 I get the pull dropping to 580 watts, about 25 watts down per card.  Afterburner, Trixx and GPU-Z all showed the drop down to 185MHz for the RAM and the temps instantly dropped 2-4C on all the cards.

I don't know of any definitive way to confirm the drop, all the reading seem to indicate that it using less power and memory did drop o 185MHz.  As far as the MH/W, I'm only using the 120V line so that drops my efficiency, and my PSUs are probably all only bronze rated (not the super crazy efficient 1200 W Seasonics) - so I'm not expecting super efficiency (I just want to use the bare minimum PSU to mine safely).

I do have 4 6950s but I split them up over 3 rigs - they only hash 50 more than the 6870s but run a lot hotter even though they're dual fan versions.  I guess I could merge them into a single rig and see what I get (I think the 69xx are more efficient than the 68xx).

well based on what you're saying then you are probably right, 25 watts per card would make sense. I just built a 6990 with two 6970's and have been struggling to find a way to get lower memclocks without a bios flash for the cards. So thanks and maybe i'll try your system.

I do have the 1250 gold seasonics, so hopefully those will help and I run semprons, etc.

Thanks for the info.