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What is wrong with people that won't take responsibility for their animals? 

I know we have many animal lovers in here; even when we can't stand one another for a thousand other reasons, we can at least come together on that; our pets deserve to be protected, and that includes training, leashing and confining, vaccinating, microchipping them or otherwise being sure they're tagged if lost....the whole thing.  It's how we love them, if we truly do.

This is yet another pit bull attack story.  I don't know if it's a breed 'trait' or not, and I guess that could be part of the story and any discussion, but the relevant fact is, he was loose in a front yard as my daughter walked her tiny teacup chihuahua past on his leash.  The pit simply charged at her little guy, came out of nowhere, grabbed him up by the neck and started spinning with him.  A nightmare.  Long story short, my daughter was also bitten and injured (trip to the ER)  trying to get "Stewie" out of his mouth, but Stewie's now partially paralyzed with vertebrae fracture and spinal crush injuries.  She has no vet insurance, and the costs for extensive neurodiagnostics and surgery are prohibitive.  It's looking like the little guy will have to be put down.

I don't know where I'm going with this.  I'm just furious and venting.   

OMG!  Did this just happen to your daughter?  She is lucky she wasn't more seriously hurt....even killed by that pit bull.  And, her poor pup?  The dog owner should pick up the costs for her injuries, and the dogs.  Unbelievable!  I have zero tolerance for dog owners you cannot control their own pets, or don't give a damn.  Too many pit bull attacks happening in our hometown, and elsewhere.  Assume animal control has the dog and are holding it for rabies, or killing the damn thing.  Hope your daughter gets better, sorry for her puppy.

It is problem that some owners dont`t have space and knowledge to have such a powerfull bread but the want to be "cool" and than thing like this happen and because of that some good dogs which are trained and with good owners has to suffer because of prejudice people have

You are right, it's not the pet's fault, it's the owner's.  And now the pit will probably pay the ultimate price for it.  As he should, unfortunately, if he's a danger and his owner won't take adequate care to ensure the public and other animals are safe.I know you all must be so heartbroken and so angry all at once.

Thank you.  Won't go into the details, but daughter is pursuing action against the homeowner.  But the pit is still there, and get this...there's a 9 month old baby in that household. 

Actually she did (briefly) put out an appeal on her facebook page just after it happened..... but I think now she's coming to grips with the grim reality of the situation.  It's just so sad. 

Although I would tend to agree that pet owners tend to bring out the worst qualities in their pets it should be realised that some breeds (in particular pit bulls but also other smaller related breeds) were in particular chosen for *one quality* and that is that "they don't respect territory" (which is why they are keen to fight in an unfamiliar place which most other dog breeds would not do).

I used to own such a dog (of the smaller breed variety) and I certainly *never trained my dog to be aggressive* (and luckily he never hurt any human) but he did fight with other dogs which was problematic and costly (I think if I get another dog it will be a different breed).

Yeah I love animals too but any observer of animals will admit some species or breeds are just more short tempered than other animals.  Even in the primate world we can see that plains baboons are often much more aggressive the jungle baboons.  Pit-bulls were bred to be aggressive.

Sadly the pit-bull owner will probably not feel any pain having his dog put down.  Usually it's some negligent guy who has the dog as a lookout (not all pit-bull owner, just ones who don't train their pets).  If he wants to treat his dog like property, take his dog away by having it put down (which is what the police animal control will probably do).

I am sooo sorry to hear about this... and the pit bull owner should bear the financial responsiblities for the damage caused by his dog... that would be the right thing to do.  So sad that pit bulls get such a bad rap by horrible owners... my neighbor has a pit who is the most gentle dog.. but because of their rep, I can't help but be a bit wary around her... . Some people should not have animals.. and if they are not fit for animals, they should not have kids either.... sending my prayers.

I hope your daughter keeps pursuting this, and gets her costs reimbursed.  When my son was bitten years ago at 10, while playing at neighbor's house, another neighbor's dog bit him on leg.  Their homeowner's policy paid all the medical bills.  I cannot believe the pit is still there....didn't they call animal control?  In my son's case, we immediately called animal control, and they came and picked up the dog.  We had a few harrowing days until they could find documentation that the dog had rabies vaccine...they kept the dog for at least 10 days, maybe longer...if with the proof.  And they have a baby in the household.  What is wrong with people???

My neighbor and his dog were also attacked by a loose pit. Marvin (my neighbor) was bitten several times trying to save his small dog. Finally, another neighbor heard the screams of the small dog, and broke it up with a baseball bat. Both Marvin and his dog survived. The pit was owned by a renter across the street, and when the police investigated, they arrested the owner. Turns out he was dealing drugs and had the pit as protection. The police said that having a pit is common among drug dealers.

Years ago, my dad and mom were walking their small dog when a pit charged across the street to attack their dog. Dad lifted their little dog up where the pit couldn't reach it, and was bitten himself. The owner pulled the pit off and explained that she had a new litter and was very aggressive. She didn't explain why she was loose.

Pits were deliberately bred to be aggressive, so it's not their fault, but time after time, when we read about an attack, it's a pit bull. The breed should be banned. They are simply too dangerous.

I'm am so sorry that happened to your daughter. After our labs passed on, we got a tiny Chihuahua, and when walking her one day, I spotted a dog that looked like a pit playing with his owner in the front yard, and unleashed. She was letting the dog attack the stream of water as she watered some plants. I picked up our Chihuahua, and went back the other way. A tiny Chihuahua has no chance against a pit. Most other breeds don't either.

Did she call the police? She can sue the homeowners for this, but she needs to report it. Their liability insurance should pay the vet bills, and also pay for your daughter's traumatization. She has a slam dunk lawsuit, and in this case, the owners need to be punished.

As I said sting, it's complicated.  The homeowner is a friend and neighbor, and he's unwell and terribly upset over this.  The dog is his stepson's.  The dog is vaccinated; she determined that.  She and her husband are seeking remuneration through his homeowner's ins.   

Still, she is being encouraged (by everyone including me) to have animal control take control of the dog but she's reluctant to do it...frankly she's not using the best judgement right now, she's so distracted.  I'm hoping she'll change her mind.  The public needs to be protected from this animal.    Maybe she'll come to that. 

Make sure your daughter calls animal control. That dog should be picked up and quarantined for observation... plus, doing that causes the owner big $$ to get it back (at least it does here) and their homeowner's insurance should be contacted for her bills (that will also put pressure on them to put the monster down, their rates will go sky high). I know it won't save her poor pup, but it might save someone else's -- or a neighborhood kid.

I know your daughter doesn't want to piss off the neighbor, but she needs to think about the safety of others, too-- we had a similar situation years ago in San Antonio. A guy down the block had 3 dogs that kept getting loose and killing cats. Well, after they mauled my cat ( who luckily got away)-- I did some investigating by talking to neighbors and found out they not only killed some kitties (which the dog owner didn't care about), they also had killed a puppy and chased a boy into his home.... They jumped a fence and tore apart a cat in front of a 12 year old girl.  

So I went to the owner, told him what his animals had been up to-- and that I wanted them contained. He hemmed and hawed and I told him that if his animals ever attacked one of my girls I would own his house, his BMW and everything else... then I told the Dad of the little girl who saw her cat killed in her backyard where the dogs that did it lived. I don't know what the Dad told the guy, but the wife of the dog owner came down to our house the next day and bawled at my husband that she hoped I was happy because her husband had the dogs put down.

Well, I was relieved... but I never asked them to do that. I asked them to maintain control. They chose to kill their animals instead of putting in a better fence. They didn't talk to us for years until they had a little girl-- then they seemed to "get it" -- that we were genuinely worried their pack of dogs would maim a child.

She needs to call the authorities.... she would feel terrible if that dog killed again-- what if it is a child next time?

Same case with us.  It was neighbor's dog, but in our situation, they were nice enough to call and open claim with their homeowner's policy.  I was completely shocked when their insurance company called and wanted to settle with us.

I can only imagine how traumatic this has been for her and that she is distracted, but I would keep encouraging her to call animal control and report the attack.  You are right, the public needs to be protected from the pit bull....including that baby in the household. 

I completely agree with you .  This just happened and really, she can't think straight right now - fresh trauma - but this isn't over.  Knowing my daughter, she'll come back around, and then get angry.  Trust me, she is not someone anyone wants to deal with when she's angry. 

The problem with pit bulls is a lot in their breeding.  Many people have no idea of what they are doing when they breed one dog to another.  They are breeding ones with the aggressive stain to another with an aggressive strain without ever bothering to check pedigrees.  Some people are dumb enough to even breed brother and sister. The very good breed has been destroyed and it is time to say no more pit bulls.  To own one will require a special license and a yard that the dog cannot get out of and a signed statement that they will be held accountable for all actions of their pit bull.

  These dogs are very popular with drug runners as they protect their stash.  The owners will intentionally make them more aggressive protect their stash and they don't care about worrying about such things as temperament while breeding..

To all:  thank you for the kind words and sympathy.  I've been preoccupied with this and just needed to tell it.  

I love dogs, but I would never tolerate a biter. When my long-haired dachshund male started trying to bite visitors, I had him put down. People come first.

That pit will attack again. It's what they are bred to do, and I do not agree with the claim that it all depends on the owner. Time and again, supposed 'trained and docile' pits suddenly and without warning, attack another dog or a human, and the owners are always astonished that their sweet pit bull erupted. I'm not surprised at all since that's what they were bred to do by the vicious dog breeders who held arena fights.

I once baby-sat a pit for a friend, and while she was playful and sweet with us, whenever she spotted another dog, she was ready to attack. That's just the way it is.

God but pits can be beautiful dogs though, the bluecoats are something else.

And the only word I can of to describe the French poodle, the full size, I saw recently is "majestic". If I ever get a dog, isn't a doubt it would be a full size poodle, damn that dog looked so proud and tall. I don't like the whiphounds and the like, scrawny little bony things.

Re chihuahuas and other rat dogs, I'm just tired of seeing them, but they have the advantage of being like a cat in respect to size, and still being a dog in terms of pack mentality, i.e., submission to the alpha. So they're very popular, especially amongst urban dwellers, but I just see WAY too many of them.
 I look at a pet dying in the following manner: if the pet has been loved and treated well, then it has been amongst the most fortunate organisms ever to live, and is far better off than many a human has ever been, is now, or will ever be.

I didn't either, until we 'inherited' one; a whippet.  She's gorgeous, sweet natured, super intelligent (and stubborn!) and really unique.  Unlike any dog we've ever had.  Wouldn't trade her for anything.

In Ontario where I am at the moment pit bulls are banned. If you owned one before the ban you can keep it but it cannot be outside even on your own property unless it is muzzled. If you take it for a walk it must be on a leash and muzzled. It has put an end to attacks and killings by pit bulls. Some may say that the government may be going to far but I support it. Nothing is too much when it come to protecting our children.

I'm leaning toward banning the breed.  Just too many horror stories for there to be no basis for it. 

This is very true and it's down to both owner and dog. As you say some dogs like pitbulls are bred to be aggresive and the owners can either encourage this behaviour or surpess it, but no matter how much training goes into some of these dogs their aggression will always be in their genes and can reappear at any time. Let's face it, most people don't get pitbulls for family pets.

no, it's the owners fault

it's just a stereotype about them, my cousin has a pit bull and he's a nice cheerful dog, they have a few small children there and there has never been an issue

this dog however has surely been neglected by it's owner and that's why he's agressive

it's not the breed

it's never the dogs fault, as Cesar Millan says, it's ALWAYS the owners fault

sue the owner, he deserves it

I'm really sorry to hear about your dog  :-\

you have my support, keep us updated..


in my country large dogs aren't allowed to be in public places without a muzzle


it's not about the breed

it's about bad owners

any dog can grow up to be aggressive because his owner didn't take enough time to raise him..

my neighbour owns a Tosa Inu which is a breed for dog fights, it's a large dog and it got loose a few times, even rushed towards me (I knew if I started running he would chase me :D just stood there and watched him, he turned back), he got in a fight with my dog (german shepard) a few times, hopefully we could get them away from each other, but I know it's not his fault

I take my dog for a walk almost every day, I spend time with him, learn him tricks

However my neigbour, I don't remember seeing him walking the dog in months

99% of the time he's just in the back yard with no one talking to him or playing with him

This is the reason why dogs turn aggressive, not their breed

Bullshit. Rotties were bred as farm dogs, Dobers to protect debt collectors (I'm pretty sure that's why Doberman bred them). Yes, they were bred to be 'aggressive' breeds, but you're saying the owner that doesn't even treat them like a human being isn't to blame, but the 'aggressive genetics'? If someone didn't encourage the aggressive behavior then guess what? The pet will know not to do it. A example is my German Shepherd/Chow mix. He knows the lines between playing (Puppy-mouthing) and full-blown attacking. The worse he's ever done was shoved his arse in my face while I was sleeping. However, in some peoples minds, both of these breeds are 'dangerous'.

And how does getting a animal as a family pet have anything to do with it?

people like them saying that all pit bulls are aggressive will say that white people are the same as black people
somehow genetics doesn't affect humans but it affects dogs
or you're saying all black people are thieves?
that's interesting

Don't most owners of pitfalls breed the dog to be vicious? Like some kind of trophy so when the walk down the street it looks like the dog is walking them. Pitbulls are pure muscle and can be trained to kill but also can be loving and caring.

Exacly!

There are so many issues at work here.  The tragedy associated with her pup, her own injuries, the dangerous disregard for the safety of others on the part of the pit bull's owner.  And the general issue of irresponsible pet ownership on the part of far too many individuals.  And the vexing issue of pit bulls as a breed.  And how dangerous they can be, both in terms of temperament and with regard to the physical structure of their muscular - skeletal structure, most particularly their jaws.  Once again I am truly sorry for everything that has happened.  Like most others on this thread, I would recommend that your daughter contact the proper authorities.  It is the only way that we might be able to prevent such happening in the future. 

anyone remember Petey?  The control freaks did the same thing to German Shepherds and  Rottweilers, to the extent that it was against the law to breed them in Germany, where they originated.  It wasn't the dog's fault. If you have an aggressive dog, you know it, and you are responsible for its actions.  It doesn't matter what breed it is.

I find it entertaining that the ones who scream "racist" the loudest and the most often are so prejudiced.
http://danlederman.wordpress.com/2014/01/24/banning-breeds-not-the-answer/

Come on jackie, you too?  It's unfortunate that the little Chi-chi was manhandled by a pit bull but to ban a breed because it's strong? A pit bull is a dog. I'd be in favor of tough penalties for owners of dogs who allow them off leash anywhere off their own property. $1000 first offense, $5000 second offense and 1 year jail sentence on 3d offense?

that's a bit harsh

but for attacks, owners should be sued and penalized

not only from the victim but from the state too

I've heard all the arguments here, and for a while we were fans of the Animal Planet shows that centered on pit rescues.  I'm an animal lover.  I just don't know that, at this point in the breed's history, if these aggressive traits can be successfully bred OUT of them.  The unpredictability is just too much of a risk.  Umair's description of Ontario's response seems reasonable to me.  Just does.  

I'm aware that you are generally an animal lover. Maybe after a few days would be a better time to broach this.

If a black teenager held you up and hit your daughter I suppose we would ban black teenagers from your village as well? jk   Sorry , but I will always have a hard time with this banning of breeds. If a person isn't able to handle the responsibility and care necessary then they should be held accountable, not the animal. Over the years I have been keenly aware of this 'breed banning' and the breed of the decade that seems to go with it. Doberman's were once a target, even German Sheperds, my beloved Rottweilers and of course the pit bull.

 Poodles are much nastier than a Rottweiler, in temperament, but they are so purdee so no one ever thinks to BAN them. Any dog is capable of biting, after all they are animals.........responsible dog owners, and laws governing those responsibilities seem to me to be the rational and intelligent choice.

I absolutely believe in breed-specific aggressiveness.  Cocker spaniels, for example, tend to be very temperamental and bitey, for lack of a better word.  The problem with pits is that they back up that breed-specific aggressiveness (that's not a blanket statement meant to say that every pit is aggressive, of course) with a ton of very raw power.  If a Chihuahua had as much power we'd all be running for our lives from them because those fuckers are mean.  lol.

Anyway, my point is that having a pit can be quite a bit like having a loaded gun that is capable of going off on its own, so if you've got one, no matter how sweet it is or how loving it has always been, you have a huge responsibility to make sure it cannot hurt anyone.  And that's a pretty hard thing to ensure if it's a family pet.

I'm not for banning them...but I am for huge fines for those shown to be irresponsible with keeping of pits.  And God help you if you're found abusing or fighting them, because I have no mercy for you. 

I hate that it happened, Sana, and I really do think that you must convince your daughter to contact the authorities.  Now that he's attacked a smaller dog he may not hesitate to attack that baby who lives in the home.

Well all dogs are capable of biting, and some breeds more temperamental than others...true.  I think it's the viciousness and sadly, often the lethal nature of the pit attacks that are the paramount concern.  

The point that this is a man-made breed is a valid one.  Maybe the responsible thing to do is to forbid any further breeding of them...but I don't know how in the world you'd enforce it.  Fining anyone found with pit puppies?  What about the mixes?  How would you prove the dog is indeed a pit mix? 

I dunno'.  Seems easier to fine irresponsible owners on the first offense, and GREATLY increasing punishment for every offense thereafter.

Lots of dogs are strong, but they weren't bred to kill other dogs. 

Ban the breed because men created it to kill other dogs. Pass a law that requires all existing pit bulls to be neutered and spayed, and then a ban on breeding any more pits, with heavy penalties for violaters. 

It's a breed we don't need. 

fun, your, man made them, man should eliminate them, is pure arrogant ignorance on your part. Dangerous thing to say when lives are on the line.

I would not order all existing, living pits to be put down...but why not a ban on breeding them?  If it could be enforced, that is, which I'm just not sure of.

Half the dogs involved in attacks that are labled "pitbull"  are actually NOT pitbulls.

This is a great topic.  Because if you are capable of believing that being a "pitbull" is reason for sterilization, or euthanization, or banning,  then you are no damn different from the Germans who threw those Jews into the gassing chambers,  or the Muzlims in Iraq who hang all homosexuals from construction cranes-----------  don't you get it?   ANY dog can be "bad",  just like any person.

It sure as hell is the breed. Quite often in my country I hear similar stories about pitbulls. It's their trait.

I understand where you are coming from. I do.  But dogs are not people, and it is a fact that some breeds are aggressive.  When you pair aggressive breeding with that kind of power and tenacity, it can be very dangerous.  I see no problem with banning future breeding of pits, especially since in order to give every existing dog a home, each American would have to adopt 7. 

So, is it okay with you for breeders to then breed an even more dangerous breed? No limit?
Dogs are man's creation. They were created by our favoring certain traits and assisting them in surviving, and thus breeding. The wolves also initially helped in this by having the wolves with a greater willingness to be close to humans hang around and get the food scraps. Eventually, humans began to physically control the breeding, and created hundreds of breeds over time with the traits the breeders wanted.

Tell me, what traits do you think the breeders of pit bulls were aiming for when they created the pit bull?

Ever heard of a mutt?  Dogs interbreed all the time, the reason they bred a bulldog with a terrier...... no idea. For all I know it was just a mix that resulted in good characteristics. Spin it all you like, dogs interbreed with each other all the time. They're not picky, the will bone any dog that fits. 

Bottom line, they are dogs. All dogs have their own personality but with love and proper training 99% of dogs are nothing more than wonderful companions and members of the family. 

As the thread title says...........

Saying that pitbulls have this weird mental disposition to attack is more or less the same as some racist saying blacks are mentally predisposed to gun violence. Asinine and revolting ignorance

It is in their genes, but it's also the owner who usually encourages such behaviour. You can have tame or well-behaved pitbulls (or other such dogs). You could encourage many dogs to be vicious if you mistreat it or encourage such behaviour so that's why it's down to the owner too. I think causing a dog breed to go extinct just because a small percentage of them are unruly or attack people isn't right.

You say you have "no idea" as to why people created pit bulls via breeding, but then you call me ignorant. Come on! If you want to write as an expert on pit bull behavior, you should research how they came to be.

There's always something going wrong somewhere at any given moment....... so what? You're afraid of dogs and you want to kill some of them because of it. Or what ever is your motivation, as far as I'm concerned you are wrong.

Well, kill the ones that have attacked people, yes. That is currently being done a great deal. As to the others, I am not saying to kill them, just not allow them to breed. Let the breed die out.

Well, no.  Firstly, although I love them, animals are not humans.  Dogs are not the same as people, and you're talking to a girl who is constantly rescuing animals and whose dog has an orthopedic memory foam mattress for goodness sakes.  Secondly, pitts were originally used (and many still are) for bloodsport, and as a result the most tenacious fighters were bred for that purpose.  It's not the dog's fault, and not all pits are aggressive of course,  but it is what it is.  And because of their power and tenacity, it's a much more dangerous situation than what you might have with an aggressive chihuahua or cocker spaniel. 

It's awful that we as humans created and used this dog for bloodsport since we created them.  We are ultimately responsible for the breed and what they are.  I am not saying we kill pit bulls, but maybe it is time to consider not creating any more of them.

Last year, over 3/4ths of the dog bite fatalities came via pit bulls or pit mixes-- yet they comprise only 6% of the dog population.

And anyone who tells you dogs cannot be bred for aggressiveness (or passivity) is an idiot who has never been around dog breeders-- if you look at all the different types of dogs there are, and where they came from, you realize how much genetics factors into it... including temperament. I am so tired of people who get more dog than they know how to control or have the ability to control. It's like they have something to prove or something. Well, don't go trying to prove it at others' expense...

Pit bulls are a terrier.  Terriers have a tendency to be aggressive.  Of the seven groups terriers are by far the most aggressive.  The good part is that they are also very protective.  But the pit bull has been breed to be the most aggressive of the terriers. For some reason in this breed they can be loving and a wonderful pet for several years then turn around and attack you. While I do love dogs I would not have a pit bull anywhere near one of my grandchildren.

Yeh its obviously Pitbulls and some other breeds have a higher aggresion in there genes then other breeds.
But I still think it mostly the owner's fault if those aggressive treats come back.
Because my neighbours have a American pittbull/stafford, but you can see it got alot of love and it's a really nice dog now.
He can even play with the just 1 year old child and will protect it to, people need to watch Cesar milan! 

This thread is becoming a mess of *opinions* with very little facts.

The fact is that various breeds were in fact bred for no other reason than to "fight" (this is why the term "pit" - they were bred for fighting in a "pit" not for digging them).

As I already stated I owned such a pet (a Staffordshire) and they are wonderful pets but they "don't respect territory" (this is why they are useful for "fighting in pits").

Generally such dogs are not so dangerous to people (they are usually most dangerous to other dogs) but to think that the breeding *has nothing to do with it* is simply wrong.

You guys might also be interested in reading up upon the experiment done in Russia about breeding foxes (for one trait - "friendliness" - it actually explains quite well how *wolves* became *dogs*).

It is interesting that whenever the OWNER is a bad one that doesn't train the dog and make sure it can't roam all over the place, it's usually the DOG that gets put down when something bad happens. Gee whiz, in most U.S. states you need a license to own something like a mountain lion if it's even at all legal, but there's usually very few checks on who can get a vicious breed of dog like a pit bull. To the OP, I hope your daughter gets a settlement that compensates her for getting bitten and for the medical and vet bills (plus the price of a chihuahua) and I hope the owner of this dog sees his insurance premiums go through the roof for as long as he chooses to own a dangerous breed of dog. Like I so often say when somebody does something completely irresponsible, the only way to draw them up short is to hit them in the wallet.

I think most people in this thread are racist

If pit bulls are aggressive because of their origin
Then black people are slaves