Bitcoin Forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4ysZRmYHYQ

Why are they doing that? Why they are bombing another country?

They will end very bad if they commited the error of bombing Russia, thats like suicide.

Because they are militaries?

It's not a good reason, man. It's not enough to be just a military guy for shooting at people and bombing another country

Georgia did the same mistake in 2008 (killing Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia), and paid very dearly for that. Georgia 2008 and Ukraine 2014 are very similar. Both the governments fail to realize that the NATO is just using their soldiers as cannon fodder. In case of a war with Russia, the NATO will offer no support at all, just like what happened in 2008.

Russia is a military superpower, it isn't as strong as it was 30 years ago, but still very strong. Any country that tries to attack Russia (or any other superpower) is making a mistake

Are you afraid of Russian red army?

Provocations to force Russia to respond - just like before WWII.

Washington is interested to open a war theatre in Europe.

They should respond eventually... But their response should be targeted against the source of problem instead of brainless puppets.

Just like Swiss in pre-WW2 years, the Wall Street is The Source of All Evil nowadays. Some strategic bombers could resolve this issue quickly enough, even without nuclear weapons.

New bombs on Russian Federation from Kiev maniacs.

http://www.vesti.ru/only_video.html?vid=607495

bombs? are you sure it is Russia and not Ukraine? from previous news, the cease fire in ukraine finished a day or two ago, and apparently Ukraine forces are trying to free spots occupied by Russian partisans in Ukraine, correct me if this unrelated, I don't speak Russian so I didn't understand the video very well but from the context above this sounds the most logical

kuroman

It's about "accidental" RF territory shellings done by ukrainian forces.

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1760862

I'd still prefer to know more before blaming one side. Yes, Ukrainian authorities are acting pretty erratically and some shady figures out there probably want to see Russia dragged into the open conflict so that they can justify martial law and large-scale ethnic cleansing which might follow. But it is also possible that the shells were intentionally fired by rebels: we know that they are dissatisfied with Putin because they aren't getting support they were hoping for. This way (by staging Ukrainian attacks) rebels might be trying to enrage Russian public and thus kickstart military intervention.

LOL. Russians fire back too. But is not reported by Russian media.
There is any crazy, who will die under Russian artillery.

Ukrainian probably hoping US will intervene. Georgia incident should teach them not to rely on US and Europe so much.

http://lifenews.ru/news/136064

I would not count on Obama using the US military

Agreed. There is 0 appetite for military deployments by the US. The outcry over Libya and the scuttled plan to meddle in Syria showed that.

I wasn't saying that there is not appetite for military deployment in the US but rather that Obama is not going to use our military for political reasons

Check Point "Dolzhansky"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEahqYCZtws

Ukrainian side, activists under fire of Kiev forces. Border control building.

http://www.interfax.ru/world/384768

Mine kill 2 domestic animals in Russian Federation.

More shelling of Russian territory:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404855232

Foreign media reports shown damaged Russian border-crossing point to Ukraine
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/739708

I don't think these are provocations, rather accidental shellings. If they finally kill somebody on the Russian territory (they haven't as of yet, only a few were wounded to my knowledge), Russia would inevitably have to establish a demilitarized zone of some 30-50 kilometers deep into the Ukrainian territory. This would effectively end the ATO since Donetsk is located only 40 kilometers from the Russian-Ukrainian border and Lugank is located almost at the border.

By the way, that's one of the reasons why the rebels retreated to these cities.

War is still a good profit for the US as they export weapons and do nation building aftermath.

As long as it doesn't strike back.

Just read about the Ukrainian female pilot, who is currently on trial in Russia. How did she end up in Russia?

With private jet.

Doesn't seem like a very bright idea to me.. was it a kamikaze mission?


They are fighting some commercial/political war.  I wouldn't be too surprised if mass media soon reports about 'chemical weapons' and 'weapons of mass destruction'.

She tried to cross the border as a refugee without an identity card and was initially detained on the Russian territory for identification.

???
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404900470

Captured near Lugansk.

Why are you so amazed? ;)

We probably have an official version (http://www.rosbalt.ru/ukraina/2014/07/10/1290422.html) (that she was arrested on Russian territory), and a true one (according to which she was actually taken prisoner near Lugansk).

This is so typical for people.
Just as US wants to have influence in many countries around the world, on same way Russia wants to have influence in countries which were before under their influence.
Some people will be always greedy.
We need to evolve a lot as society, maybe then we will live in better and peaceful world.

You believe not, that she was taken on Russian boarder with Lugansk Republic?
Lugansk activists can "liberate" this person direct on boarder.

Lugansk is located some 10 kilometers from the Russian-Ukrainian border, so "near Lugansk" may actually mean in Russia. ;)

Demilitarized zone would resolve this issue. At least it worked for Cyprus/Northern Cyprus, Korea/DPRK, South Ossetia/Georgia, PMR/Moldova, ...

She was arrested by the freedom fighters of Lugansk and extradited to Russia:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404900470
Remember that Lugansk People's Republic proclaimed its independence from Ukraine, so what they did is legal.

She is accused of being a direct accomplice in murder of the two Russian journalists, as she was the artillery spotter and marked them as targets.

---

On the note of bombing of Russian territory:
There is heavy fighting near border control point "Donetsk". People in Rostov region (Russia) are being evacuated because of shooting:
http://rusvesna.su/news/1404974243

If so, why does the official version of her detainment sound a little different? :)

There is no official version, only interfax text with no font.

Okay, let's then just wait until the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs officially comments on this (or whoever is eligible to make official statements on behalf of Russia) in case there is no such commentary yet.

http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1781739&tid=105474

Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs state that Ukrainian powers will be held directly responsible for any future shelling of Russian soil.
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405022788

Talk is cheap, waiting for the establishment of a demilitarized zone along the border. :)

http://lifenews.ru/news/136482

1 dead, 4 wounded in Russia

http://lifenews.ru/news/136465

In English:

1 killed, 2 injured: Russia vows response to Ukraine shelling Russian city
http://rt.com/news/172404-russian-donetsk-shelled-victims/

The town that got shelled on the Russian territory is also called Donetsk. Someone dot disoriented?

Is Donetsk currently divided by Ukraine and Russia? Is there a wall that separates this two countries?

No these are two different cities:
In RF (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Donetsk,+Rostov+Oblast,+Russia/@48.3286934,39.9530404,13z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x411e3d1d7c36553f:0x21095bc8f8beb59a)
In Ukraine (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Donetsk,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/@47.9901174,37.7615206,12z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x40e0909500919a2d:0x36335efdc5856f84)

The distance between them is 219km (https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Donetsk,+Rostov+Oblast,+Russia/Donetsk,+Donetsk+Oblast,+Ukraine/@48.407041,38.2541618,9z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x411e3d1d7c36553f:0x21095bc8f8beb59a!2m2!1d39.933333!2d48.333333!1m5!1m1!1s0x40e0909500919a2d:0x36335efdc5856f84!2m2!1d37.80285!2d48.015883)

I can't help but think that most people on this forum that are posting Ukraine vs. Russia posts have some sort of agenda behind them.  I think it's a fluid situation in that region and I bet even the US or major intelligence agencies don't know for sure what's going on there.  Russia could be the one instigating and Ukraine is fighting for its own territory, or Ukraine could be making it look worse than it actually it to try to get support from US/Europe.  Don't go blaming the US for everything, it's easy to do because it's biggest.  They may not be perfect but neither is Russia.

Very good thinking, thank you for sharing.
In this conflict everybody have their own agenda, Ukraine, Russia, EU and USA and they are not playing fair.
EU promised a lot to the Ukraine if they switch from Russia to EU but didn't support them in the most critical moment, when conflict started.
At present moment I don't think that anybody in Ukraine government will be so crazy to attack Russia.
They are weaker and they understand this point very well.
They can try just soft war inside their borders with hope that Russia will not start open war against them in order to protect their interests in Ukraine.
I don't see bright future for Ukraine because Russia will continue to pressure them and EU and USA will just talk but will not do anything, as always in the past. 

FUD spread in that news

Russia does not have much interests in Ukraine as a state. People, living in the East-Ukraine, on the other hand, have quite a lot of historical and economic interest in Russia.

At this point this informative article might be of help. :)
http://stanislavs.org/two-ukraines/

As for agendas, mine is to help at least a little in breaking the tangible information blockade from the West that befell this conflict.

More bombs today.

http://lifenews.ru/news/136526

Things are a lot more simple. Putin is making steps backwards thanks to the reaction of the international community and the sanctions which individuals, and slowly businesses from Russia are objected to. He knows clearly that on a new war with the Western world it's not necessarily the military force that would count, but the economical consequences of it. And that is a war which Russia will loose so badly that Putin will have to face not only with a war, but also with revolutions all across Russia which would be started by the deepest economical crisis Russia would have to face in his modern history.

Now, the so called "rebels" know this, and they feel that Russia abandoned them. Everybody in Lugansk, Donetsk, etc. was thinking, hey let's do this, and then Russia will step in and do what they have done in Crimea. But now it's time for them to wake up to reality and face the fact that Russia will not make more tension with the Western world, and for the sake of these rebels and regions will not put in danger their sustainability, etc.

So the rebels are shooting some rockets towards Russia, in the hope that they will tell (and everybody will believe) that the Ucraine army fired those, so they force somehow a response from Russia. It will not work... they will not achieve what they want, Russia will not step in and send his military to back up the rebel forces.

They will be hunted down, anihilated and prosecuted, as they should be for all those men, women and children who already lost their lives for their stupidity; they have to pay for all the damage they have produced to families, for taking away homes, livelihoods, hope. In democracy, the voice of majority should rule, no matter if you don't really like, nor agree with it. Trying to enforce your position with weapons and with the cost of human lives should only be considered as crime, therefor using these should be considered as means of terror.

I guess it's safe to skip the rest part of your text, because I'll see nothing but copy&paste from CNN or FauxNews.

Russia is prepared for a war, if the west is pulling into Russia. It's similar to the cuba situation for Russia.. the US isn't too happy about rockets being put in Cuba, and neither is Russia about rockets being put in Poland or even in Ukraine.



It should, but it doesn't. Its the voice of the minority that rules.. in the US, in Europe etc decisions are being made that are not in the interest of the people; Just take the mass surveillance crap for example, nobody asked for that. Democracy is dead in the US, Latin America and in Europe.

And to be historically correct, the only reason Soviet Union was sending those rockets to Cuba in the first place, was because US placed their rockets in Turkey. The history seems to be repeating itself now...

Russia is being provoked to join the war in the Ukraine. They know they are being provoked so they have to sit tight.

Every time Russian Federation fire back to destroy attacking units.

2 soldiers of Russian Federaion killed.

http://161.ru/text/newsline/819093.html

These all   the lie thus impudent., style of  PUTIN  by provocations to create  false reality, and it is mean to kill.Similarly it was and in Chechnya
Terorists  have the reactive systems of a volley fire, mortars, they fire peaceful cities for creation of picture on TV....Then to accuse the Ukrainian army of death of peaceful population, and to justify the aggression, input of troops and help to the terrorists.

Now this is dangerous. I just hope that Russia will carefully investigate the case before... well, anything else. Because both sides involved in clashes in Donbass have motives to provoke Russian military response.

???

http://izvestia.kiev.ua/article/70715

http://korrespondent.net/ukraine/politics/3391643-za-sutky-pohybly-piatero-ukraynskykh-voennykh-unychtozheno-1000-opolchentsev-snbo

http://112.ua/obshchestvo/ukrainskie-voennye-unichtozhili-v-luganske-kolonnu-tyazheloy-tehniki-boevikov-istochnik-86938.html

Grad fire back from Gukovo (Russian Federation, Rostov region) to Novorossia territory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXpCTUjWGkE

Again.
http://lifenews.ru/news/137312
http://www.rosbalt.ru/federal/2014/07/25/1296507.html

As I know, Russian border guards have been given orders to suppress the Ukrainian emplacements in the case they deliberately open fire. I think this will cool down some hot heads in Ukraine a little.

Russia shelled again!

Russia Initiates Case into Purposeful Attack from Ukraine on Investigators
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140726/191309461/Russia-Initiates-Case-into-Purposeful-Attack-from-Ukraine-on.html

When will the Russians be held responsible for their crimes?
For many months you and you friends have been constantly posting pro-Russian bullshit and lies. It makes me sick. Get out of your mother's basement and get a real job.

When will the leaders of your so-called "Lugansk People's Republic" be arrested and tried for the international war crime of shooting down a civilian aircraft? Enough of the bullshit about "waiting for an official investigation". You mean a Russian investigation? Get fucked. It's fucking obvious that the Lugansk guys -- you know, the "independence fighters" patrolling Lugansk with Russian weapons -- are the ones responsible. They the obvious prime suspects, but everyone's just being polite about it because they're terrified that the dictator Putin wants to start a real war.

By the way, what's the story with independent bloggers in Russia? Are some of them still alive?

And inb4 you mention America. I don't give a shit. I don't live there and I don't care about their crap. Now, does the phrase "I'm sorry, I apologise for Russian crimes" even exist in Russian? Perhaps Stalin deleted those words from the dictionary? because Google translate doesn't seem to be working for me.

There is already an official international investigation on behalf of ICAO into the causes of the Malaysian airliner take-down. So let's just wait the results of this investigation (and don't forget to update your manuals).

http://www.icao.int/Newsroom/Pages/ICAO-accident-investigation-team-begins-Ukraine-assistance-mission.aspx

Yeah but if the Russian 'side' wins, that will just give those patriots even more emotional drive and ambition to attack Ukraine even more.

If the Russian 'side' loses, they will simply point at the same problems that Bitcoin tries to solve, regarding majority rules, "might is right", anarchic justice and so on. They will complain that they are poor victims again/as usual, that the more powerful West has gone unpunished... See? The bullshit never ends.

obvious blah-blah-blah
please stop psaking

http://fenix.gorod.tomsk.ru/uploads/49434/1284006283/churkaev1_670x447.jpg

Psaking... Lol, I've never heard that term :D

Medvedev's reaction on this guy:

http://s7.pikabu.ru/post_img/2014/03/18/8/1395141699_1471476622.png

http://operkor.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/8xvoW0Uj4NM.jpg

If I had to guess, never. Russia has not been a country of law for a very long time.

If the Russian "side" wins, it would just mean that Russia has been telling the truth about the Malaysian airliner downing right from the start, and the U.S. has been lying and trying to defame Russia, correct? So, who will be responsible for their crimes?

Russia, of course. Don't ask me why, only blahblahblah is able to understand this logic. :D


Turn off your TV, please... And get some more valuable information source.

December 24, 1989
Resolution # 979-1 of Congress of Soviets
«On the political and legal assessment of the Soviet-German non-aggression pact of 1939»

So, now equipped with this logic, we can safely answer the original question (that is, when will the Russians be held responsible for their crimes?). The answer is short and simple. Never! :D

Yeah, this guy seems pretty similar to some liberal dictocratic puppet fools in the estonian parliament... Who thinks that passing 1989's resolution wasn't enough and demands a "recognition of occupation" every time when their and russian representatives are in the same room. Quite poor show in order to get some political points. ;D

A tired sigh...

Russian Ministry of Foreign affairs again asks Kiev to stop shelling and shooting at Russian territory and to ensure safety of the international observers:
http://www.interfax.ru/world/388468

On the 29th the border guards at Gukovo came under fire from mine throwers (mortars) and machine guns from Ukrainian military.

Top Russian investigator protests against ‘deliberate shooting’ by Ukrainian military
http://rt.com/politics/176964-russian-investigators-ukraine-shelling/

Russia has been shelled from Ukraine once again today:

Ukraine’s Grad Rocket Launchers Shell Russia’s Rostov Region – Border Security Service
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20140802/191617531/Ukraines-Grad-Rocket-Launchers-Shell-Russias-Rostov-Region-.html

Nine shells fired from Ukraine explode in Russia's territory
http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/743310