Bitcoin Forum

As per title, asking you experts.

As per https://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator 0.01196082 BTC per day at current difficulty factor 16818461371.2

As per http://www.bitcoinx.com/profit/ 0.0120 BTC per day at current difficulty factor 16,818,461,371.00

Next 12 months around 1 bitcoin or so:

https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/d28b241a18

I know this is a bit off topic but extract is not the right word to use. These bitcoins aren't hidden in lines of code that need to be "extracted" as you make it seem. They are simply created; basically out of nothing. When a miner finds a block, that miner is rewarded 25 bitcoins that are created - and proven to be valid.

Thank you for the explanation but I don't know if there's much to discuss.
If you FIND a block, you were actually LOOKING for something, that's why I use the word "extract".
In fact, you don't really FIND bitcoins, right? They are a reward because you FIND a block.
So you extract them thanks to your mining. Or you get them as a reward.
It's just words I think, there's 2 different POVs here, that's all.

Anyway, what do you think the price will be for this new piece of miner (http://www.coindesk.com/bitmain-releases-energy-efficient-478ghs-antminer-s3/)?

Thank you!

It looks that you won't take back your investment if the machine costs 1000$ (but I think it will cost more).
https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/bb554ee8f3
And of course I have put in there the sheet values: 470 GH/s and 366W.

But if you spend 0 in electricity you will actually earn 21$ (0.03 BTC) after one year!
https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/2feb5cfd9d

From the article:

Duh jumped that line, thank you!

So here's the result: https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/c42525c314

Good to mine for 6 months, then you can trash it away again  :D

holy *beep* ,, really you make me cannot sleep with that calculate.. -_- ..

WOW after checking https://tradeblock.com/mining/  bitcoin mining isn't worth it.

about 0.01 a day, probably another 3 months roi

That's 10 days at 0.01, then difficulty goes up 20% so no you get 0.0083 for 10-11 days, then 0.00065 for 10-11 days and so on.

As you approach the 3 month time period the electricity costs more than the income, so you turn it off.

You will not recoup your 1 BTC.  Unless the network crashes and burns in which case you get thousands of useless BTC lol.

I think this machine gives back what you pay it (https://tradeblock.com/mining/a/0fb2381bbf), but not by much... I mean, after 6 months you get 0.3 BTC on top of your investment repaid. Is it really worth it? Mining is essentially dead.

And...just wait for the new 50 PHs stomping into the network (http://www.coindesk.com/megabigpower-launches-global-franchisee-network-add-50phs-per-month-bitcoin-network/), and boom, bye bye mining, once and for all.

i'm staying away from asic thank you lol

Cloud mining is even worse.

You put in a 32% increase per month!?!  We had a 25% just for the last 10 day period!  Two of those in a row is 1.25x1.25=1.56 or 56% increase in just about 20-22 days, not even counting out 30 days.

The machine won't even earn it's fiat back unless Bitcoin doubles in price.

A calculator (like any tool) only works if used correctly. 

Difficulty increase goes with computational power increase.
If computational power wouldn't increase, difficulty would stay the same (for what I know).
We just had a 25%, true, but when this step was so steep, it's possible that the next one will be lower.

The problem is vc are still pouring capitals and buying computing power, even when the investment is very risky and doesn't pay that much, but I don't expect that much after this jump.
My opinion is that in the future we'll see some other months of PHs getting into play, and then, when the income will be very tight, many of these mining companies will pop off, beginning with cloud miners.
We are rapidly approaching the no-return in investment, by hardware costs and electricity consumption.
When this soil will be met there will be slower addition of computational power, but I expect a collapse not too far in time on GHs prices on cloud mining, and then also on hardware.

The people throwing VC around as investing into "massive" multi-million dollar farms.  They develop and produce their own miners or subcontract somelike like ASICMiner to make the chips and they make their own.  Their costs are significantly lower than a home user.  They can afford to have 10k miners air-lifted to Iceland and mine with cheap power.

You and I mining at home cannot compete with that.  It may cost you $450 to buy an S3, Bitmain can make it for $200 and they only need to mine $200 to break even.

If 0.5W/GH/s is realized soon then we won't see step off until 2016 at the 1/2ing, if we don't get the efficiency up then it will drop sooner as you noted, but not from the VCs.

Anyway, I took off my money from mining and suggest everybody "small" to do so as well :D

so the point is 'DO NOT MINING'? am i right?
so if that's true now is time to move on altcoins :)

I'm writing a guide on why altcoins are, practically all, fated to fail.
I'll make it short here for you: everybody is accepting BTC, NOT altcoins.
Everybody is building infrastructure on BTC, only some accept some altcoins.
Everybody is investing in BTC, only some put something into altcoins.
If you have some exceeding money to trash, buy some altcoins and hope that in the future at least one will step up, otherwise stay far from them.

mining bitcoins is bad, altcoin is bad.. so what's exactly you ask us to do?
trading with big loose? or stop thinking about bitcoin and go away from this?

I ask you nothing.
And even more: I am nobody, not economist, not guru, nothing.
It's just my opinion, but if you open your eyes a bit it's not too difficult to try to forecast this environment.
Just buy BTC with fiat currency and wait.
Not the right time for mining, not the right time for buying too many altcoins.
IMHO.

dear godlike  like your name.  it is a nickname  use for a close friend.

while  respect your opinion of buying coins (btc ) and holding them.  It is a one dimensional approach .

I best guess is do mining and hold coins.

In order to do mining you need cheap power.  So some guy in iceland at 5 cents a k-watt with an sp-30 doing  .5 watts a hash is in good shape.

well 2 antminer s-3's pulling 750 watts to do 1000 gh are better if the power is 3.5 cents a k-watt.

So small miners will survive if they are creative about power.

Does it mean steal power no it does not.  Here  are great uses for 2 s-3's

 http://www.lemproducts.com/product/refurbished-stainless-steel-dehydrator/refurbished-products

food dehydrator


http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/drying-wood-at-home/

kiln drying wood

those products spend the same power with out mining if scaled correctly.

So that means free power for your miners.

These are just a few ways to compete against a huge Iceland spot.

Another way is any free power source of more then 100 watts use gear to solo mine.

Cost = zero  chance of collecting small.  but the idle gear will not  make money. and mining for free it could get lucky.

Small miners will not die off.  Simply because they will adapt.  They just won't have a lot of the network.  Of course a 50ph plant in iceland would be a huge target for terrorism but that is another pair of sleeves so to speak.

I don't know about some of these calculators. My 230gh/s earns me around $4.5 us/day and I got over $30 worth overnight off p2pool.
Go have a look on my node (in sig) if you don't believe me. It's all there under stats and payouts.

If your using anything less than 70+% minimum difficulty increase per month your fooling yourself at this point.  Though this difficulty jump won't be anything too huge, just watch what happens in another 2-3 weeks!

With those numbers you
1) have free power
2) are getting incredibly lucky - $30 overnight, a 3.5TH Neptune can't even do that overnight.


Most people would not be able to follow in your footsteps - it's why everybody can't be a Warren Buffet.

1. yes, free power
2. yes p2pool has had good luck lately. there of course has been worse luck going back a week or so.

either way there is money to be made but if you are paying for electricity then you have to watch your bottom line closely. like I said the node is in my sig (i'm the 1minerxxx address) you can see the payments I have. that address is only used for my mining operations. no rented hash is used on that addy. ( I have other wallets to keep that separate).

Are we all forgetting the price of Bitcoin might be $100,000 in 5 yrs
Then it might be worth mining again.

The experienced miners ignore the fiat value of BTC for the following reason:
Do you want to buy 100BTC @ $620 for a total of $62,000 and only have to worry about securing your coins for 5 years or
Do you want to buy $62,000 worth of mining equipment which would earn you 86BTC after 2 years with electricity costs

I'm pretty sure the first option makes more financial sense.  It's also easier to enter and exit.  Mining does have its benefits like generating anonymous coins, but that requires massive power and solo mining.