Bitcoin Forum

The Kora registration process is going very well, but it looks like we will not reach 3000 stakeholders. What should we do with the left over stakes?

I can see advantages from all options (and maybe we can split any left over stakes between two, or even all three options above), but I think the best option is 3. Keep in trust for later distribution

IMO we have 25% for power bounties, plus 5% for the core dev (plus a little extra bitcoin payment from me), and the webapp registration dev also has 5%, so I think we have dev bounties covered. I do want to encourage people to donate to the dev team though, but we have planned well for formal community bounties IMO.

In my mind the choice is between increasing the size of the stake for existing stakeholders, or keeping the remaining stakes in trust and opening up registrations later on when Kora is better known. I feel Kora has momentum now, and once we distribute Kora tokens on the NXT AE we will get a lot more exposure. I've already had approaches from some crypto media outlets, and I think in 2-3 months once nioccoin has had some time to lay out his future dev roadmap to the community, I believe Kora *could* have a sizable buzz around it similar to what NEM has now. If that does happen it would be so awesome to be able to open up registrations again for another ~1500-2000 stakeholders.

I believe by opening up registrations later on for a 'round 2' we *could* end up increasing the value of the round 1 stakes by a larger amount than if we distribute the left over stakes to existing round 1 stakeholders. IMO the real 'value' comes from the Kora community, and as stakes are free we need to expect a lot more passive bystanders than NXT & Qora have. For that reason I think having those left over stakes in trust for later distribution is the best option.

One of my non-negotiable Kora fundamentals is 'Kora stakes are free', so I can guarantee there will NOT be an auction or sale of any left over Kora stakes. That doesn't mean that we can't raise the bar a little and ask any interested people to 'contribute' in some way. The first round of Kora registrations included some tasks, but we weren't asking people to do any 'work' as such. If we opened up registrations again in 2-3 months for example, we could distribute Kora stakes based on a non-monetary contribution that doesn't advantage people from high exchange rate countries.

That is a key requirement for me. A small bitcoin amount to me, like 0.01 btc, IS NOT small to someone from a low exchange rate country, so having an auction for any left-over stakes is non-negotiable as far as I am concerned. We can however, ask that round two Kora registration users agree to contribute some "hours" to Kora. That could be promotion, writing, dev, artwork, slogan writing etc etc. Anything useful :)

Anyway, lets see what people think, and then we will decide as a community!

The unclaimed coins in Nxt were used for bounties to pay marketing, infrastructure, and developers.  I think it worked well.

I prefer to the option "Distribute to existing stakeholders"

I prefer to distribute them among all existing stakeholders. I believe that a percentage of coins reserved for development that is too high will not benefit the image of the coin. Too much coins in the hands of developers is always countered by suspicion...
On the other hand everyone should realise that a crucial aspect of a coin's future lies in continuing development!

So I think we should all commit to contribute to bounties if the coins get distributed over the existing stakeholders. ( I know , I 'm a little naive  :D )

Can you add an option for a combination of 1 and 2?

It's true. Actually it was already expected that reaching the number 3,000 stakeholders would be not possible (if comparing with previous ipo examples).

Although keeping a small fair percentage for initial development IS necessary, there should be a distribution of these left over stakes among all already existing stakeholders. It is obvious that those stakeholders who believe in KORA will WORK for it, while those who are just willing to dump it will just dump, it's inevitable (and there's no way guess who is who).

Maybe you could use the remaining coins for bounties and faucets...
... um... well, after giving away a part of it for existing stakeholders :D. (Greed! Is that you?)

please add possibility for combination of options.

than, when it will win :D , make another vote for percentual divisions, like 30% + 70%, 50% + 50%, 60%+40% etc. :D

endless vote?  or a loop?  ;D

Kora,

If you chose # 3. i.e. to ‘ Keep in trust for later distribution’
Make those later stakes smaller and non-tradable for 3-6-9 mo.
You can do something similar with the extra stake if you chose #1 also.

I can't seem to vote. But I think we should keep it as bounties etc. We eventually will have to pay people for some professional stuff. I know the community is great etc. in developing for free etc. But in the end no one has a stake they paid for unlike NEM. That's why I think it needs at least to have some kora coins in the bank to reward people.

I vote for give them all to me, but that might not be the popular choice.

Based on my previous experiences: keep them in trust to use for development + marketing bounties. You can never have a big enough warchest.

Use to pay for bounties & developers

Split them between the 3 choices about equally.

IMO  "Distribute to existing stakeholders" is better.

Destroy them.

Option 3 is obviously the best one if you do want to stay long

Option 1 is a big NO, although I expect many existing stakeholders should have voted for it. However, this option will just continue to benefit a smaller group of people, and make the whole distribution even more unfair. It will surely make Kora no difference to other junk coins available elsewhere

Maybe you can consider to offer a little bit less for later distribution. That means a combination of 2 and 3 should work fine

I'm not an investor, but option #2 seems like a sensible solution. EDIT: OH I realized you can sign up for the IPO for free- good idea, I may go sign up myself.  :)

The more development funds for bounties and developers the better, and the more likely Kora will be a success.

IMO is better to distribute for existing stakeholders. Why?
If you extend the registration phease, or keep open the registration for later, there will be more and more sockpuppets. By giving time to users they can figure out wich are the weaknesses of system and they can make sockpuppets without catching them.
On the otherside, if there will be much more stakeholders, there will be users who will keep the coin for looong loong time so there will be no movement of the coin, there will be no trades, moves on the market, and the coin could become dead. And by having less stakeholders, we can make a 'community' (wich is already forming thanks for the promotion and dev) wich can take care of coin, who can move it.
Also i hope there will be no pump and dump

I vote Distribute to existing stakeholders  :P

Split them equally for all these three purposes

Repeating i would say:


Split them between the 3 choices about equally.

Obviously everyone is going to want a larger stake, but most don't realize that the developers are what make your coin worth anything. Distribute to developers.

+1

Take them over as bounties etc and when everyone least expects it and the price is decent sell them off and book a flight to Bali.

Oh sorry you asked what we should do, I thought you wanted to know what we thought you were going to.

Of course most people want to distribute the remaining stakes to the current stakeholders. :D But it would be more wise to put more Kora in bounties and to pay more devs. That's more important than having even richer stakeholders.

Perhaps some kind of mix would be good.

For example,

1. A person who joins now would get more than someone who'd come in later
2. We could set aside some of it for further development and bounties
3. We could open form again later and distribute to some extra people, getting even more support

That's my take on it anyway.

Balanced approach would be best in my opinion.

73% for "Distribute to existing stakeholders"

not much more to say

This. The vote is simply people being greedy.

stake holders already have a stake, it wont help the coin in anyway
i chose 3rd, 2nd is good too

I made my thoughts known at the start of the poll, but the result of the poll is clear, and people prefer to distribute left over stakes to existing Kora community members. I can live with that!

IMO it is obvious that a smaller slice from a bigger pie is *probably* going to be larger than a bigger slice from a smaller pie. A larger pie is best achieved by:

1- increasing the number of stakeholders by keeping left over stakes in trust for distribution at a later date
2- using the left over stakes to pay for development bounties

But that's just my opinion, and most people clearly think differently.

What would the Poll result be if we included 'combination' options that included splitting the left over stakes into 2 or more of the original options?

Poll options would be something like this:

1- increase stakes for existing stakeholders
2- use for dev bounties
3- keep in trust for later distribution
4- 1 & 2
5- 2 & 3
6- 1 & 3
7- 1 & 2 & 3

I know it's a bit complicated, but it would be good to try and get the best 'bang for our buck' from any left-over stakes, and even though distributing to existing stakeholders is the clear winner, we might get a different answer if we include combinations in the Poll.

Should we have another Poll, or go with the clear winner?

 

So what's the likely number of stakeholders ? Keep in mind that 50% has been reserved for multiple forms of bounties and development shares. So my vote is for giving to current stakeholders. There isn't a need for that much coin under a centralized control. NEM has only 25% under a centralized control and people are already complaining bloody hell.

One's answer to the poll may be different depending on one's strategy for accumulating wealth.

If one wishes to get most profit in the quickest way possible (dump), then option 1 would be best as it would give one more to sell at once.

If one wishes to grow their wealth (hold), either of two or three would be best as they would allow for meeting challenges as they arise.

Distribute among those, who have already applied and been verified.

Dump it

agree

By design we have devoted a high proportion of stakes to dev shares and bounties, so the choice for me over what to do with left over stakes is really between:

1- giving them to existing stakeholders
2- giving them to future stakeholders

I personally favour 'future stakeholders' - Imagine the marketing potential of opening up registrations for free stakes in a few months when Kora is better known and has generated interest from the wider crypto community. It would be something unique in the crypto landscape - not an auction, or a sale - but another method of giving away a large number of free stakes. It would be a very powerful marketing tool, and as the Kora tokens distributed from round 1 will have been traded on the NXT AE for a while, we will know exactly how much each stake is worth.

Kora coin giving away ~1500 stakes worth $XXX.XX each!

Imagine if NEM was able to give away ~1500 NEM stakes before they released their beta version to the public? We know a NEM stake is worth ~25,000 NXT. What an amazing marketing opportunity, and think of all the ways you could do this to generate interest, and promote the core values of 'Kora' coin!

- some free stakes for charity
- some free stakes given away randomly in a lottery
- some free stakes to people offering to do useful tasks for the community

Remember, Kora is very small now but that will change. nioccoin has started to outline his plans for the tech side just in the last few days. Imagine where we'll be in 2-3 months time?

The question for existing stakeholders is would the original stake actually be worth more in the long run from having the 'potential' options described above available to us?

IMO our greatest asset right now is the number of interested people following Kora who *might* be interested enough to get involved. Offering free stakes in a new coin is easy, and I'm not surprised that we hit 1000 stakeholders quite quickly. But how many of those ~1000 people will stick around and stay involved over the medium & longer term? That's what we need to bootstrap Kora - an active community. The 25% for power bounties is a nice motivating 'honey pot' to get people thinking about 'doing things', but first and foremost we need lots of stakeholders.

What about a 50:50 split? We give half the left over stakes to existing stakeholders, and save the other 50% for later distribution in a 'round 2'.

so many people vot for the 1- giving them to existing stakeholders,
why u still sitck for 5:5 split?
obviously it is not fair for the early bird to resgiter,
IMO, it is better for 8:2,good for the first round people.

Let's definitely keep a good percentage for bounties and development, thats a must if ya ask myself.

BUT TOO MUCH = NO COIN

Have the community decide how much we need for bounties and development then split the rest among the stakeholders.

Point well made. Crypto is a crowded market place now, and I think most can see Kora is legit and trying hard to get things right, but maybe we do need some of our community to post a little more to bump our threads!

Forum mods are more strict now though, and we've already had out BTT confirmation thread locked, and the days when 100+ pages of 'interested' posts were tolerated are long gone.

I think you need to close it once you do.
Having some get more than others will be like thanksgiving for trolls

Get who is interested now. Close.

Build community. Build coin. Auction off stakes before launch for extra development funds. Coin launches. It has value. Pay those that work for Kora in Kora.

Then get some rest after that its over!! This looks like its gonna be a big one!! lol

That is the benefit of being the first. Back on January no one cared about sock-puppets and transaction posting. All this mess is due to NEM and UtopianFuture. My advice: do a proper IPO; there you at least have some reserve power to develop your coin.  

To distribute it among existing stakeholders indeed seems to be the best option. Too much coins in the hands of developers is always countered by suspicion, and will not benefit the image of the coin.

Sadly the current poll result just indicates that most existing shareholders want quick profits. Distributing them more coins will kill Kora for sure

I myself already made registration too, but I still strongly recommend Option 3. Distribute the wealth more evenly and you get more chance to reach longer-term holders at least

The choice is very obvious now

Remember how nxt succeeded with very few stake holders. Remember another thing as well, not all community projects or dev projects will get the approval dev or marketing bounty. In some areas, stack holders need to step up and make that decision. That being said, the dev or community fund cannot be spending overly for every project. So there should be an equal or fair number between dev bounty and stake holders.

So what is your proposal to distribute the coins in a way that is not exploitable.
I believe we should accept that there is already a good distribution, this has nothing to do with quick profits.

I would say use for bounties and developments as people who work for the coin should also be rewarded.. :). We shouldn't be too greedy.

I voted for option 2 because the DEV Team are the ones working hardest to create and make the coin..One share is enough for us lot, let's be nice and give the DEVS some goodies they deserve.Without them we would have squat just my 2 KORAS.. ;D

One of the reasons that I am attracted to the (k)Ora project, is that the initiator, Kora, actually suggests option 3: distribute later to others.
It just feels right to me.

(This idealism of Kora reminds me a little of the altruistic enthusiasm of UtopianFuture, another impressive Project Manager.)

That the majority of this 'community' here voted in favor of personal greed, can be seen as somewhat disappointing, but maybe it is the best approach to acknowledge that we will have to somehow deal with that motivator, and that it can also propel the disciples to take ownership of this project. We want it to succeed. Others will be envious of us, but that is ok, because we will be rich.

I have full confidence that Kora will navigate these coral reefs with skill, and hopefully not lose his idealism, because right now, that is really the most important reason why this community has gathered here. (disclaimer: one person's opinion)

Pentamon

is here a final decision about the left stakes?
it seems the register is over and the first round will be out soon.

1. I really do not get it with some of your argument with stakeholders being greedy. Now tell me what difference does it make between 1000 stake holders and 3000 stakeholders. I will tell you what will happen, with 3000 stakeholders, i can say 95% is going to just hold their coim due to number of coin they are going to receive. If kora decides the total amount of coin is 100,000,000 then you divide them by half and them divide again with 3000. What do you think you will receive and honestly how many is even going to make any contribution towards the development instead of TOTALLY depending on dev funds? Honest answers here? You have openend the thread for registration for quite some time plus the extension. Why dont just get on with it and lets continue with the next step.

2. Can all those registered be a little patient. Mac red is going through the whole list. Give the man some time. Its not like you are going to get the coins tomorrow. There are still so many things to be done. Relax.

I think we're getting some well considered sincere opinions on this issue, and that's very encouraging, thanks everyone!

I had a brain storm the other night that might give us a workable approach to resolve the situation. I've made my opinion known previously that my preference is to keep the remaining stakes in reserve for distribution later. The final number of stakeholders isn't known precisely, but we know it'll be ~1000 (maybe a bit under, maybe a bit over). That's enough to start building a community, so we *could* distribute ALL the left over stakes to the existing stake holders and do very well in the longer term. On the other hand, there are a lot of advantages to keeping at least some stakes in reserve for distribution later on.

What about this for a workable compromise, We distribute stakes to the ~1000 existing stakeholders based on the original calculation (i.e. 50% of total stakes to 3K stakeholders), and within the first week we use the NXT voting system to determine *exactly* what our community wants. In essence we resolve the matter using a democratic process based on one stake one vote. I really think this could be great test case for how we run (k)Ora in a decentralised fashion. Even the most cohesive communities will have issues that divide and cause deadlocks & gridlock with key decisions. We have a decentralised mechanism to deal with this, how fantastic!!

I know we already had a poll, but I don't feel that was truly representative. Only ~150 votes came in, and maybe some of those people weren't even stakeholders. I know I'm biased because the poll result was in favour of distributing left over stakes to the ~1K existing community, but this issue really is super critical, and using the NXT voting system we will know *exactly* what the WHOLE community feeling on this is once and for all. If we get the same result so be it, but one other problem with the forum poll was it didn't offer mixed combination option (e.g. 50% to existing stakeholders and 50% in reserve for future stakeholders OR 33% each for existing stakeholders, future stakeholders & bounties).

The NXT voting system can be 'per asset', so only Kora token holders would be eligible to vote, and I think having a voting system to help decide things is revolutionary for a leaderless decentralised starfish community like (k)Ora.

Later on we could attempt to design a set of rules to govern how our 'direct democracy' voting system would work long term, but for now we could experiment and use the left over stake issue to test the water a bit (and have some fun!).

What do people think?

nice decision

I agree.

+1

I think, that it does not really matter if there are 1000 or 3000 stakeholders. Maybe 10000 or 100000 would change a little.
There are Billions of people out there.

You can compare that maybe a little to microsoft having 2 offers for a marketing campaign.
One costs 1000. The other one 3000 $. Peanuts either the case.
I think it depends on the company, not on how much they want.

Also with the community its depending on the individuals not on the amount of people.
I prefer 1000 people, that care about there stake, to 3000 people that don't or lets say 1000 that care and 2000 that don't and dump...

what shall we do with the drunken sailor,
what shall we do with the drunken sailor,
what shall we do with the drunken sailor,
early in the morning?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-ytFOS9TI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVlVyi9rKDo

how about
70% for existing stakeholder
20% for developer
10% for a giveway

I agree too , and there should be enough amount for Developers time and coins promotion.

Poll verdict speaks for itself, should be implemented. But distribute only to those existing holders who did not dumped their stakes. The remaining for bounties and future development.

I would vote for this.
Sofar only a fraction has been distributed to stake holders, plenty of room for some more...

maybe do a new distribute is a good idea.

I'm going to lock this thread now.

It served a purpose, but we've decided to use the NXT voting system to decide issues.

For more up to date information look in my signature for links to other ORA threads :)