Bitcoin Forum

Hello fellow miners,
 
good news everyone!

We're now listed on GLBSE!
The ticker symbol is B-FCMC (https://glbse.com/asset/view/B-FCMC), which stands for Bitcoin FPGA-Community-Mining-Cluster.

With the very good help from molecular, we defined the following IPO and contract:

Initial Public Offering:
In this document the basic targets of the IPO will be defined.
The basic principle is to acquire FPGA based mining hardware from the initial issued shares (20,000 shares @ 0.25BTC = 5,000BTC). Our first cluster will consist of ztex USB-FPGA Modules 1.15y ("Quads"), to reduce acquisition costs, we will use a bulk order organized by the user chefnet of bitcointalk.org. The estimated price per miner is 903€.
After all the shares have been sold, there will be no additional shares issued.  



contract:
The mining-cluster will consist hardware that is optimized for a low energy-costs and a high efficiency of watt per mhs. All operational costs will be deduced from the mined bitcoins. In order to grow, 40% of the earnings will be stored for further growth. The remaining 60% will be distributed to all shareholders evenly. The 80% of the 40% deduced from all earnings will be used to buy new hardware on availability. The last 20% will then be stored in order to take bargains and provide a buffer if the operational-costs are higher than the earnings.
Each share, will receive a weekly dividend.  
Expansion costs are: acquire hardware to maintain the growth and 3rd-party-services necessary to run the operation.  
Every purchase of new hardware will be announced on b-fcmc.com and be decided through a motion on GLBSE.  
Motions to change to the contract and hardware-purchases require a yes by 51% of the participating shares.
I reserve the right to abort all operations and liquidate all hardware purchased and distribute the earnings to all shareholders at any time.


Happy trading and mining!


For general donations (hardware) to this project: 1CqAJaHWpEUi9QEmHkh3V6znAdwQf6Z6yL
 
For donations to me: 1LeuycrKQXHUetWbrCWtWDQzCrNajSEuyU


If you have any questions, comments, ideas feel free to share.


regards, talpan

1. 8*830MH/s!=8GH/s
2. What is the price per Kwh there. In future competition will increase and % of power costs will increase even for fpga tehnology to important levels
3. Do you need to pay VAT above the stated price for the singles?

1) that's what I thought
2) 0.25 eurocents per kwh, 0.20 if you get lucky.
3) he probably does, but whats more important is that there apply about 200 USD in customs taxes which he'll have to pay too.

to be honest - when I bought my bitforces, I purchased a cheap flight to Florida as well, because it was way cheaper to get them delivered to a US street address and then smuggle them back home.

You should be clear that in order to reach 8Ghash/s you will need 10 BFL Singles.

Also, your statement that there are only one-time mining contracts without growth opportunities is incorrect ;)

See the post about the Bitcoin Syndicate here in this forum (or go to our site at: www.btcsyn.com) to read up on how we operate ;)
(note, not intended as an advertising post, we've already completed our IPO, I'm simply posting an example of another mining op that does what the OP suggests, a growth oriented publicly traded mining op).

Good luck with your venture!

Thanks for the replies :).

I've corrected the number of BitForces, it was just a typo.
The rest of the numbers are based on 10 BitForces.


I said "almost" ;)


As for the VAT, checking that now, haven't thought about it thank you very much for the hint.
And the price per kwh is 0.23€ ~ $0,30.


kind regards,
talpan

OP's Identity? please.



 

Watching.

$0.30 per kWh?

You aren't going to be any more competitive than a good GPU miner with low electrical rates.

It would be like someone saying.  I want to startup up a growth GPU mining contract (@ 8 cents per kWh) because GPUs are the future of mining.

Your electricity rates wouldn't much do you good as compared to someone who has lower rates and uses gpus to mine.

Sorry but I'm not seeing this.

8320gh/s for both as a comparison

10 BitForce single  @ 800W  with $0.3 kwh
Power cost per 24h: 5.76 USD
Revenue per day: 26.55 USD
      ... less power costs: 20.79 USD
System efficiency: 10.00 MH/s/W


33,28 6850 (each 250mh/s) @ 6656W with $0.1 kwh
Power cost per 24h: 15.97 USD
Revenue per day: 27.62 USD
      ... less power costs: 11.64 USD
System efficiency: 1.25 MH/s/W


Feel free to calculate this for other cards too.


calculated with: http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php

I have 20GH/s in 3x5970 rigs getting 2.5 MH/W (870W AC at the wall for 2.125 GH/s).  
I am moving them to 4x5970s to push efficiency even higher (2.7 MH/W).  I am not moving them for fun I am moving them to ensure I stay ahead of the efficiency "race".  If network efficiency forces me to be more competitive I have already tested I can undervolt & underclock to get > 4 MH/W.

Daily operating cost per 1 GH/s @ $0.09 per kWh
Currently - 2.5 MH/W Cost per day per GH/s = $0.90
Modified Farm - 2.7 MH/W Cost per day per GH/s = $0.80
Undervolted - 4.0 MH/W Cost per day per GH/s = $0.50

Daily operating cost per 1 GH/s @ $0.30 per kWh
Best Case (10 MH/W) = $0.72
As Observed (9.25 MH/W) = $0.78
With 150W host overhead (8 MH/W) = $0.90

Rigs with 7970 can do better (bad news for me).  Rigs with 7990s can likely push even higher.

$0.30 per kWh is like the top 1% of electrical rates in the modern world.  Kinda hard to be competitive.  Even if you were having the same exact farm using same components somewhere that has $0.10 electricity would net investors $1800 more annually.

Hello,

I think 4MH/W is a bit high-flying, you have to consider that the hardware has a shorter
expectancy of life. But well, yeah my choice wasn't may be right.

May be there are others who live in a country like germany where the power costs
are that high and they like the idea of the project itself.


regards,

talpan

Edit: currently it looks like I'd have to pay 19% VAT, but I'm not so sure about this yet ;), I'll be investigating.

Why would hardware have a shorter life expectency when running more efficiently.  Lower voltage, lower clock, lower current, lower thermal stress = shorter life?


Well then hopefully you sell a lot of shares.  Best of luck.

really, you did that? That must've felt pretty weird.

Imagine customs checking your luggage...

customs1: "dude, what is that?!?"
customs2: "looks like some strange hardware to me."
customs1: "hey, traveller, what is that stuff"
you: "well, those are butterfly bitcoin miners"
customs1: "what?!? what is bitcoin? is it a weapon?"
you: "a decentralized cryptocurr..."
customs2: "MONEY LAUNDERING MACHINERY!!! ARREST!"
customs1: "What?!? A washing machine for money?"

As what D&T said, it's possible to have higher efficiencies with 5xxx series cards, particularly the 58xx and 5970 series. And the hardware would have a longer life expectancy  when running more efficently. If it fails though (just happened to me recently with a 5870 and a 5850 dead), you could RMA em and have them back in 2-3 weeks. And there's the inherent problem of one of those bitforces suddenly dying as there's no mention of warranty (I could be wrong, so correct me).

Where's your country? I find it astonishing to have power rates at $0.30 per kWh as your rates are beating even industrial power rates in my country. For domestic use, my power rates go like $0.06 - 0.12 and its already quite high as compared to other countries.

There is a warranty it is 180 days.  I would imagine at least in near future than RMA would be taking a lot longer than 2 weeks though.

I want in. 8)

 ;D



Let's see where this goes :)


Replied to your PM Bitbird.

I have verified talpans identity.

The home address, phone number, email and photo ID.

Nefario.

Thanks, I will take a look at this.

And thx to nefario (glbse) for verifying my identity :)

I chipped in 5 BTC (which I want back) for the GLBSE setup.

what's the status, can't wait to buy some shares and get the first order going ;)

fees should be lowered 'soon'
latest with 2.0 glbse
and since it was anyway just a scam prevention
id verified issuers could negotiate a lowered fee anyway
questionmark

Thank you very much :)


[qoute author=mila]
fees should be lowered 'soon'
latest with 2.0 glbse
and since it was anyway just a scam prevention
id verified issuers could negotiate a lowered fee anyway
questionmark
[/qoute]

Well, for now there are fees. Glbse 2.0 isn't finished yet.

regards, talpan

I truly believe that fees are negotiable

you're a verified person to nefario and the fee increase was 'only' due to asset in glbse issued by dubious persons

if you want to rush and issue the asset at the cost of 20 btc, I won't even comment further
I just believe that savings (optimal use of money) are possible.

edit: and glbse 1.0 is not even up & running. my standard test of "log in and see if balance or portfolio refresh" failed (is failing since morning)

I'll contact nefario about that :)
And I can confirm that glbse isn't currently working...

cool


yep, me too.

Man, down for what 40 minutes and everyones all over it. I went out for a haircut, when I got back there was like 11 emails and pm's telling me GLBSE was down (had to leave my phone at home to charge).

Good news.

I've talked to nefario and he offered me to lower the fees to 8BTC,
these are the new fees for GLBSE 2.0.

Since molecular gave already 5BTC there are only 3BTC missing :).

regards, talpan

according to the glbse ticker on twitter the last trade was at 3:49 am, then the next when it came back was at 4.54 pm, so I see your 40 minutes and raise you ~13 hours. I know it was down at 8am this morning as I was checking to see when OgNasty paid his mergedmining dividends *as can be seen by the immediate trade of them after it was back. I could access the site, but got no balance and no response to portfolio, *-history or asset data. They all sat spinning with "refreshing".

marked

 :-[

Please guys, could you create another topic for that?
I don't have any problems with 2 posts about that issue, but I think, as this happened more than once,
there should be another thread, discussing that issue.

Thank you.

regards,
talpan

sorry, I'd just been chatting in a different topic where mila and I had been discussing ways to be notified about downtime by using trades, and somehow thought it was that one continuing...

marked

no need to create it, the "GLBSE down" thread is alive and well: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48752.0

EDIT: fixed quoting

rather https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=48752.140
or something with .new in the url to fetch latest messages.

as for the new pfga asset on glbse, still watching closely this thread

Hey guys and ladies,

a little status update:

So far we have 6.74BTC of the 8BTC needed :)

And I've purchased the domain b-fcmc.com, it's not that graet
but it's short :).
Just to remember: b-fcmc = Bitcoin FPGA community mining cluster ;)

the best,

talpan

Hey,

we have now all the BTC needed for creating an asset on GLBSE.
I'll do this within one week, here are some reasons for delaying it.

As it seems, the delivery times are still very high (~12weeks) and I missed that I need
to pay 19% VAT.
I've contacted them about the VAT and what would be if I pay in Bitcoins (they would do
let me pay in Bitcoins, although it's not a payment option on their homepage).
And there some other upcoming FPGA-Boards, that have to be considered.

I will let donators decide, who funded the 8BTC when i know more.


kind a regards,
talpan

Hello,

sorry for my absence lately.
I was very busy.

To summarize things:
After several attempts to contact BFL, I think this is not the way to go.
Now, this doesn't mean that, this is the end (before we even started) for b-fcmc.

There are several other FPGA-boards available.
My personal choice would be ztex, though they're a bit more expensive.
One great plus is, that they also reside in Germany, which makes delivery and support fast.

Please tell me what you think, as soon as I got some opinions, I will define the
final contract, before I open up the GLBSE account.

The best,
talpan

did you see the thread about the ztex "sammelbestellung", it seems they can get price down to 189€ if 100 are bought. they were at 50 last time I checked.

located thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=74164.0

Hello,

thanks for hint molecular, yxt pointed me to that post too.

I think before this ends in nothing, I will define a contract and post it.
I'll contact all of the three who donated to 8btc needed to create a contract on glbse and let them decide.

cu,
talpan

Hello I have good news, we're now listed!

Please see the first post for details.


the best,
talpan

Hello everyone,

since there is no demand, probably due to  the upcoming asic miners, I
buy back all shares at 0.25btc (original sell price).

the best,
talpan

this is pretty sad... any ideas about getting into the bfl asic game somehow?

Hello molecurlar,

first: I want to thank you for your very good support!, we'll be in contact.

I've considered the option to switch to ascis for a short period of time...
But then I saw the numerous mining contracts for asics.
I don't think that any new mining operation could really take off in this situation.

But..., there are plenty of other projects in my head and they need to get out.
I'm in contact with a web-designer in order to make these projects reality :).


the best,
talpan

PS: Let's see how long they have to wait for their ascis :D