Bitcoin Forum

How much money have YOU lost from con artist ASIC companies??
Me, $32k and counting.
It's been an expensive lesson to realize the $ was in trading but fuck me.
ASIC is just fucking st00pid, there is zero need for it, 90% of all hashes get counted and then dumped.
It provides zero additional security.

Send the fucking engineers back to the drawing board and switch the protocol restoring the technology back to cpu and gpu.
FUCK YOU ASIC!!!

and then switch it again in a year.

DRK has forked twice on purpose with zero issues, it's a signed fork.

Bitcoin is a community product, restore it back to the community.
It has zero purpose being industrialized.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/29r2cq/sign_the_restoration_of_bitcoin_petition_here/

The only hashes that get used are the ones needed for the blockchain. The protocol actually generates a new hash for the chain appending, if you ever looked at it.
The hashes are't used, they are just counted as shares.
That's just the way hashing works.
That math function equals something.

demo here  ->  https://brainwallet.github.io/

the signed hash used equals part of the guy before him. Then it's signed.

OP completely misunderstands proof-of-work security, as well as the implications of a hard fork.

How? Kindly explain.

$0

Just your typical bro that's mad because he lost money. You should know it's a gamble, and you lost fair and square. Nothing to cry about. I bet if you made a bunch of profit, this thread wouldn't exist.

Nothing about ASIC is valid for coins.

Yes. Lets keep it GPU only and concentrate all mining in Washington USA (cheapest power afaik), or outsource it to Russian Botnets (CPU).

The development of ASICs is a natural phenomenon. Crooks in an unregulated market are also a natural phenomenon.

You spent 32k on magic money making machines and got conned.

I feel your pain, but changing the protocol is not going to keep the crooks away.

http://bastiat.org/en/petition.html

It will totally fuck their operation up.

Without effecting the coin.

First of all, the verb is to affect. Second, ASICs are an integral part of coin security. Stop whining.

the protocol never changed to make ASICS possible. it was the smart people that realised that CPU/GPU was inefficiant and they designed a chip that had only one purpose..

you do realise that even script ASIC's now exist. so moving bitcoin to a new protocol, would just be like moving it over to script. initially thought as being CPU/GPU only (litecoins reason for being).. but now smart people have moved litecoin into the ASIC mining system.

as for moving it into POS instead.. all that means is that the rich get richer EG karpeles holding 600k would get the biggest slice of the block reward pie, followed by coinbase (their coldstore), bitstamp, bitpay etc.

leaving average joe just picking up dust amounts even if they held >1000btc..

POS is only for the coindevs that premine the main hoard first. then they just sit back and simply get rich.. so stick with POW as it is now and just accept that the OP got scammed by a company.. not bitcoin.

bitcoin ethos: don't trust third parties with your funds.... remember it

dont blame bitcoin for a human problem.

Most ASIC manufacturers are not con artists. They hash at the advertised rate and they earn you bitcoin. They are just overpriced and people fall for them.

Surely the whole premise here is false.  If you change the algorithm, everyone will rush out to buy new hardware and the hardware suppliers will overcharge for that as well. 

"Let's teach them a lesson by forcing everyone to throw even more money at them".   :D

Not only would it be a terrible idea to jeopardise the coin's future to supposedly fix something that isn't actually a problem, but it doesn't even fix the problem you think you're trying to solve.  All it would achieve is instability in the markets, possible security risks, lots of unnecessary upheaval and more profit for the companies you think ripped you off.

integral?
no, not even close. There are thousands of coins that run just fine on cpu.

The entire market is a fraud.
There is not one legitimate company.

any ASIC is worthless in 2 or 3 months.
Just rotate the protocol.

Why does the dumbest always speak the loudest?

It has been a while since we've seen a "ASIC kills bitcoin" thread....

Can anyone guess how soon we will see another " mining concentration is a flaw" thread?

Gotta love all the idiots come and go ....

You know what, you're right...

Despite the misguided thoughts such as "the hashes are wasted
and it provides no security and we should change bitcoin"
(which are obviously wrong)

...you're right that ASIC manufactures are out to take your money.
They imply or at least bank on you believing the idea that you
can or will be profitable from mining, and the reality is you probably
won't.

Why would any company sell you a piece of hardware that
they can run themselves and make more of a profit?  The answer
is, they generally won't, because to do so would be
anti-business.  All businesses are out to maximize profits,
and without profits, there would be no business.  

So... It's a racket.

Difficulty keeps going up, and your slice of the pie keeps
going down... MAYBE you will make your money back
if the difficulty stays level, but it hasn't.

You could make your money back if BTC prices rise,
but then again, its easier to simply buy BTC.

Cloud mining is even more of a scam.

The winners in mining are those that make their
own chips or at least purchase chips wholesale
and assemble them.  

There's nothing left for you to do , except
to except the reality, learn from the (expensive)
mistake and move on.

You are right.. Bitcoin mining is not +EV. It used to be. now you have to invest thousands of dollars into equipment and will eventually be ran by just a few. The problem is that it would be stupid to change it. Live or die by the protocol..Most of the people getting into mining now are planning on btc skyrocketing soon, thats the only way they will ROI. I  think its better to just  buy and Hodl..

Again as for any investment or business venture, you must do your own calculation. Calling the market a fraud is stupid. Its the same with franchising industry, very overpriced with little return.

Also note that even if the hardware can mine more than what its being sold for, the manufacture still rather sell hardware than being in speculating business.

Having cash flow now is worth alot more than waiting for small profits in future.

Unfortunately, i rarely see ppl understand this.

You're right in theory.

But the reality is many people taking losses
on machines because they didn't get them
in hand fast enough, and even if mining
companies have good intentions, the
nature of the business makes it very hard
to be profitable by simply buying turnkey
mining gear.   The companies don't want
to take the risk, precisely because its
a very dangerous bet, or if they do take
it, its without the burden of the margins
that they get by selling the gear.

Don't you think more people should
understand that too?

Its a new market which opens up opportunities for better retailers.

For example, having an escrow service with guaranteed delivery date and automatic deduction of the price based on estimated income lost....etc. Its really not hard to do a smart contract with bitcoin.

Let the free market do its best.

Let's put this another way.  As a crude analogy, mining is a bit like tuning up cars and going racing.  It's not for everyone.  It's fiercely competitive and there are people who have much more money and expertise to throw behind winning the race than you do.  From the moment I found out about Bitcoin, I had the strong and distinct impression that mining wasn't for me.  It's not something you do as a casual hobby unless you enjoy wasting money.  You've either got to have a serious strategy for success, or vast sums of money to invest.  If you don't have either of those, you've got nothing and mining isn't for you.  Blame the vendors if you want, pretend that rotating the algorithm would have made a difference, but it won't change the fact that you made the wrong call and probably would have lost out eventually anyway.  

Whatever you do to the algorithm, your competition will adapt faster than you will.  You turned up to an arms race with a squirtgun.  Changing the rules won't change that.

Also, at the time of writing, your petition on reddit only has one signature and I'm pretty sure he was being entirely facetious.

Not even close

What exactly does signing that do?

If you change the algorithm, everyone will rush out to buy new hardware and the hardware suppliers will overcharge