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Title: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 01, 2011, 07:45:30 PM I am having a hard time setting up my first multi GPU system here...
I have 6 x 5870s (all different brands) all plugged into one MSI 890-FXA-GD70 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130274R&cm_re=msi_890fxa-gd70-_-13-130-274R-_-Product) with a PCIe x1 extension cables that have been modified by myself to accept x16 sized cards. When they are all plugged in to the board directly, and I plug a video cable from my monitor into one of them.... I see the boot screen and the operating system loads... When they are plugged into the board with the modified x1 to x16 cables...you cannot see any video through them... Any ideas?! EDIT: - I am running ubuntu 10.10 - will update as I figure things out! Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: goatpig on May 01, 2011, 08:08:24 PM You're not supposed to see boot infos on anything but the x16 slots I think.
Let it get into your OS and see if the card is identified. Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 01, 2011, 08:13:04 PM You're not supposed to see boot infos on anything but the x16 slots I think. Let it get into your OS and see if the card is identified. That was the other problem... when I did get a boot screen showing and loaded ubuntu 10.10... I could only find 2 of the 6 cards... Might this have something to do with the fact that there is only 4GB of installed ram on this machine? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: trentzb on May 01, 2011, 08:44:12 PM I have 7 x 5870s (all different brands) all plugged into one MSI 890-FXA-GD70 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130274R&cm_re=msi_890fxa-gd70-_-13-130-274R-_-Product) with a PCIe x1 extension cables that have been modified by myself to accept x16 sized cards. How in the world are you able to connect 7 x 5870 into that board? I am seeing 6 PCIe slots unless I am looking at the wrong board. Using a PCI -> PCIe adapter also?You're not supposed to see boot infos on anything but the x16 slots I think. In the BIOS settings of some mainboards you can select to output BIOS video via x16 or x1 or IGP and/or set the order to light them up in.At a shell prompt do a lspci | grep -i vga and see what you see. If you got all of them listed you are getting there. If you don't or are interested in how the kernel is probing the PCI/PCIe busses do a dmesg at a prompt and look for fglrx output. Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 01, 2011, 09:48:14 PM you may need to do the pci-e x1 bridge trick in order to make cards work at x1.
http://blog.zorinaq.com/images/pcie-short-schematic.png Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 01, 2011, 10:35:42 PM you may need to do the pci-e x1 bridge trick in order to make cards work at x1. These are just typical 5870s I am using in this setup, from a few different manufacturers. Is this a necessary thing to do with 5870s in general? All 5870s are x16 by default and are a fairly popular board... Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 01, 2011, 10:41:37 PM I have 7 x 5870s (all different brands) all plugged into one MSI 890-FXA-GD70 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130274R&cm_re=msi_890fxa-gd70-_-13-130-274R-_-Product) with a PCIe x1 extension cables that have been modified by myself to accept x16 sized cards. How in the world are you able to connect 7 x 5870 into that board? I am seeing 6 PCIe slots unless I am looking at the wrong board. Using a PCI -> PCIe adapter also?You're not supposed to see boot infos on anything but the x16 slots I think. In the BIOS settings of some mainboards you can select to output BIOS video via x16 or x1 or IGP and/or set the order to light them up in.At a shell prompt do a lspci | grep -i vga and see what you see. If you got all of them listed you are getting there. If you don't or are interested in how the kernel is probing the PCI/PCIe busses do a dmesg at a prompt and look for fglrx output. Woops! I meant 6, changed that! Nope, not using a PCI -> PCIe adapter... not really economical. I cannot even get to the shell is the problem. When all of the cards are plugged in via x1 PCIe extension cables... I cannot even get a video signal coming out of any of them. I have tried each one. When they are plugged into the board directly they work fine. Which is why I ask if there is something I am doing wrong or do x1 connections simply not transmit video signals due to lack of bandwidth or something?? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 01, 2011, 10:44:03 PM BRIDGE the pci-e slots like in the picture i posted.
Some mbs have troubles detecting videos cards at x1 slots, using a simple cable to bridge 2 pins will fix it. Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 02, 2011, 12:02:31 AM BRIDGE the pci-e slots like in the picture i posted. Some mbs have troubles detecting videos cards at x1 slots, using a simple cable to bridge 2 pins will fix it. Sounds like a task easier said then done... There is not a lot of room to work with on an x1 extension cable. Would probably be simpler to purchase x16 cables for $5 each, no? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 02, 2011, 12:22:28 AM http://blog.zorinaq.com/images/pcie-short-schematic.png
http://blog.zorinaq.com/images/pcie-short-photo.jpg man you cant do that???? Take 5cm of ANY cable and just put it like the image... Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: trentzb on May 02, 2011, 12:59:02 AM Are you meaning to hot wire the x1 extender or the slot on mainboard?
Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 02, 2011, 01:08:54 AM its the same thing.
Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: trentzb on May 02, 2011, 01:47:06 AM He is having an issue with his x16 slots unless I am misreading. Are you saying he should jumper his x16 slot using x1 presence detect?
Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: chungenhung on May 02, 2011, 01:57:46 AM http://blog.zorinaq.com/images/pcie-short-schematic.png In the picture, it looks like the wire is just placed inside the PCI-e slot.http://blog.zorinaq.com/images/pcie-short-photo.jpg man you cant do that???? Take 5cm of ANY cable and just put it like the image... Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 02, 2011, 02:24:33 AM He is having an issue with his x16 slots unless I am misreading. Are you saying he should jumper his x16 slot using x1 presence detect? his using x1 risers, even if the slots are x16, if his using a x1 riser it NEEDs to jumper the slot -or the riser-, depends on the mb and/or the video card combination, in some cases you dont need to jumper anything. BTW... 6x5870, there is a limit on how many VGA cards can be placed on a single MB? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: bitjet on May 02, 2011, 03:05:14 AM Quote BTW... 6x5870, there is a limit on how many VGA cards can be placed on a single MB? OS limitations. win7 = 4gpu's , linux 8 gpus. Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 02, 2011, 03:24:18 AM with a PCIe x1 extension cables that have been modified by myself to accept x16 sized cards. 1. I assume you did this by cutting the back of the x1 socket. You should check that you didn't eliminate the connections closest to the cut. 2. Some x16 cards need other leads shorted to work. 3. If you're seeing two of the cards working, I'd mark cards as "known good" and start swapping them through. If they work in all ports, then it's card related, especially if the other cards don't work in the slots where the working cards are currently seated. 4. You're going to need to titrate this, regardless. You have a combination of cards and slots, some of which work and most of which don't, and all the cards are different brands that could have their own issues and electrical incompatibilities that could cause everything to go to heck. Start with your two good cards in any slots in which they work, then start adding cards in a methodical manner until you reach your maximum. PCIe x1 itself is definitely capable of transmitting video, and you can buy (a few) x1 cards, primarily to go into rackmount servers. Just set your expectations of video performance accordingly. Remember that PCIe, even with one lane, is faster than ISA, and we played lots of bad games in VGA and definitely saw Linux/X output. Thanks for your insight! I know that all of the cards work since I have tested them all individually. It's just that whenever I plug then into an x1, x8 or x16 slot with an x1 extension cable they fail to be recognized. I like your idea of trying all of the same brand of cards on one mobo. I have a bunch of 5870s all made by Gigabyte so I will lump them together and get back to you guys here. Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 02, 2011, 03:27:37 AM Thanks for your insight! I know that all of the cards work since I have tested them all individually. It's just that whenever I plug then into an x1, x8 or x16 slot with an x1 extension cable they fail to be recognized. I like your idea of trying all of the same brand of cards on one mobo. I have a bunch of 5870s all made by Gigabyte so I will lump them together and get back to you guys here. again, your problem is VGA detection at x1... just jumper the slots or the risers as showed on the picture. Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 02, 2011, 03:27:58 AM http://blog.zorinaq.com/images/pcie-short-schematic.png http://blog.zorinaq.com/images/pcie-short-photo.jpg man you cant do that???? Take 5cm of ANY cable and just put it like the image... So you are talking about bridging the motherboard, I thought you meant for me to bridge the pcie x1 extension cable originally. And I had not thought of doing it that way. You're right it seems quite simple! I am not specifically having problems with plugging the x1 extension cables into an x1 slot. I am also having trouble reading cards that are plugged into an x16 slot via an x1 extension cable. Do I simply have to use the correct size of extension cable? (I mean.. x16 extension cables for an x16 slot?) I am buying some x16 extension cables right now... I thought I could save a buck by buying x1s and making the necessary cuts myself... stupid mistake! Thanks for your help shivansps! Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 02, 2011, 03:29:24 AM He is having an issue with his x16 slots unless I am misreading. Are you saying he should jumper his x16 slot using x1 presence detect? his using x1 risers, even if the slots are x16, if his using a x1 riser it NEEDs to jumper the slot -or the riser-, depends on the mb and/or the video card combination, in some cases you dont need to jumper anything. BTW... 6x5870, there is a limit on how many VGA cards can be placed on a single MB? Is there a limit? I am using ubuntu 10.10... I heard that windows imposed limits but not ubuntu..? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 02, 2011, 03:33:01 AM it works... pci-e is backward compatible, but there are problems with VGA detection on x1 speed on some mbs or VGA cards. In those cases you need to jumper the slots or the risers, you can place the cable on the mb x16 slots or just do it on the riser, i recomend to just do it on the x1 riser to rule out any posibility of jumping the wrong pins.
Personally, im on the way to start a mining rig this week, on a MA770T-UD3, i also thought about the posibility of get 2 pci to pci-e adapters to make a total of 7 cards, but for now i starting with 1 5850, ill add more cards later. Addicionally, i not sure if PCI bandwidth is enoght. Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: trentzb on May 02, 2011, 06:21:46 AM I think he was talking about using PCIe video cards not PCI video cards...just with a PCI -> PCIe adapter. I looked at this also and while I don't doubt that bandwidth will be sufficient I am still wondering how it gets its 12V power over that adapter. The adapters I have seen don't appear to have any external power connection.
Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: Convery on May 02, 2011, 04:45:39 PM I think he was talking about using PCIe video cards not PCI video cards...just with a PCI -> PCIe adapter. I looked at this also and while I don't doubt that bandwidth will be sufficient I am still wondering how it gets its 12V power over that adapter. The adapters I have seen don't appear to have any external power connection. There aren't PCI cards that allow you to plug in a PCI-E adapter. All of the PCI-PCI-E converters go the other way––allowing you to plug PCI cards (usually two) into a PCI-Ex1 slot.http://gyazo.com/b06420dae3f009b1169ed63dc6f6331f.png http://gyazo.com/75b1f9fe750872247b3f0a5f6cab36ab.png I think I'll get one the next time I buy hardware, just for testing if nothing else :3 Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: trentzb on May 02, 2011, 04:53:25 PM There aren't PCI cards that allow you to plug in a PCI-E adapter. All of the PCI-PCI-E converters go the other way––allowing you to plug PCI cards (usually two) into a PCI-Ex1 slot. I probably stated it incorrectly (PCI -> PCIe). Would you prefer I say PCIe -> PCI?I will probably get one also on next hardware purchase to test out. I want to see how the PCIe slot has 12V. I noted on the forums here that someone is using such an adapter successfully...have to hunt that post down. Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: Convery on May 02, 2011, 11:52:59 PM [img]http://gyazo.com/b06420dae3f009b1169ed63dc6f6331f.png[img] [img]http://gyazo.com/75b1f9fe750872247b3f0a5f6cab36ab.png[img] I think I'll get one the next time I buy hardware, just for testing if nothing else :3 Cool. URLs? I love to be wrong on things like this. :-) PCI - PCIe x16; Homepage (http://www.delock.com/produkte/gruppen/IO+Karten/Delock_PCI_to_PCI_Express_x16_card_89276.html) - Not exactly the same but the same speccs and datasheets.. Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/PCI-32bits-PCI-E-express-16X-riser-card-adapter-/320693561785?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4aaad369b9) Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/PCI-32Bit-PCI-Express-16x-Riser-Extender-Card-/170628273176?pt=COMP_EN_Networking_Components&hash=item27ba3%ADcd418) PCI - PCIe x1; Homepage Flexible (http://www.amfeltec.com/products/flexible-pci-to-pcie-adapter.php) Homepage Low profile (http://www.amfeltec.com/products/pci-to-pci-express-adapter.php) Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 03, 2011, 01:06:20 AM the problem with pci is that you will run out of bandwidth very fast... its 133mb/s shared on all pci slots... so if you have 2 pci->pci-e adapters, max teorical bandwidth for each card is 66mb/s
Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: Convery on May 03, 2011, 01:18:05 AM the problem with pci is that you will run out of bandwidth very fast... its 133mb/s shared on all pci slots... so if you have 2 pci->pci-e adapters, max teorical bandwidth for each card is 66mb/s As far as I know PCI is faster then PCIe x1. But never the less, since when is bandwidth a huge factor in GPGPU work? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 03, 2011, 11:24:09 AM Just bought some copper wire and will be shorting those connections on the x1 cables shortly...
Any connections before I electrocute myself? Should they be insulated wires? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 08, 2011, 07:12:51 PM Ok so technopagan was nice enough to chime in and let me know what he does when creating his pcie x1 extension cables for x16 boards...
Apparently: It's pins A2+A3+B1+B2+B3 that require bridging. But shivanas only suggests bridging two pins? Which one is it, guys? I don't feel like frying my motherboard today :S Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 08, 2011, 08:35:20 PM i have already tested it using only 1 cable and it works fine, just remember to bridge the x1 riser and no the slot, i not sure if the pinout is 100% the same.
Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 08, 2011, 10:38:04 PM i have already tested it using only 1 cable and it works fine, just remember to bridge the x1 riser and no the slot, i not sure if the pinout is 100% the same. Can you point me to the blog post on zorinaq that shows that picture you provided specifically??? Nevermind, found it! (http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42) Edit: ahhhhhh crap... ok... I see what's going on here.... So my original question was how do I do this using a pcie x16 slot, a pcie x16 card, and an x1 extension cable. Not a pcie x1 slot to a pcie x16 card (which is what zorinaq is talking about...) Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: shivansps on May 08, 2011, 11:08:30 PM is the same. if you plug a x1 riser intro a x16 slot then it become a x1 slot :P
Just place the cable on the same pin on the x16 slot as it where a x1 slot. Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: gigabytecoin on May 08, 2011, 11:32:17 PM is the same. if you plug a x1 riser intro a x16 slot then it become a x1 slot :P Just place the cable on the same pin on the x16 slot as it where a x1 slot. Ok I'll try it! Anybody know what technopagan is talking about with this then: bridge A2+A3+B1+B2+B3 ??? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: Miner-TE on May 08, 2011, 11:57:21 PM Pin number and side of the slot. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express)
Bridging these does not make sense to me. It appears that they are all +12 V except for the Reserved B3. Proceed with caution. B1 - +12V B2 - +12V B3 - Reserved A2 - +12V A3 - +12V Bridging A1 to B17 makes sense. This should pull the state of A1 to b17 (low) and indicate the card is present. See page 1 of this thread for pic. A1 - PRSNT1# B17 - PRSNT2# Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: RchGrav on May 21, 2011, 01:34:17 AM is the same. if you plug a x1 riser intro a x16 slot then it become a x1 slot :P Just place the cable on the same pin on the x16 slot as it where a x1 slot. Ok I'll try it! Anybody know what technopagan is talking about with this then: bridge A2+A3+B1+B2+B3 ??? Of course.. This is when you want to supply the power via the yellow wire fed from a lead on your main power supply. The purpose of this is to take some strain off of a motherboard running a lot of GPU's. Look for the post selling the modded flexible 1x to 16x risers w/ the 4 pin molex power. I'd link u, but typing this on a phone. ;-) (this is a power mod, it has nada to do with the 1x presence detect.) Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: faille on July 08, 2011, 10:04:01 AM I can't seem to get a card working on a pcie 1x slot with a riser cable at all. I've tried bridging and non bridging and nothing. I got it working fine on one computer that didn't need any bridging at all, so I'm confident I've cut the rise cables properly and connected it all up, but no joy.
Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: jackjack on July 08, 2011, 11:55:17 AM the problem with pci is that you will run out of bandwidth very fast... its 133mb/s shared on all pci slots... so if you have 2 pci->pci-e adapters, max teorical bandwidth for each card is 66mb/s As far as I know PCI is faster then PCIe x1. But never the less, since when is bandwidth a huge factor in GPGPU work? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: syb3ria on July 08, 2011, 12:04:50 PM the problem with pci is that you will run out of bandwidth very fast... its 133mb/s shared on all pci slots... so if you have 2 pci->pci-e adapters, max teorical bandwidth for each card is 66mb/s As far as I know PCI is faster then PCIe x1. But never the less, since when is bandwidth a huge factor in GPGPU work? Title: Re: PCIe x1 capable of transmitting video or only mining? Post by: jackjack on July 08, 2011, 01:11:37 PM I was thinking about PCI but ok it's the same
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