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http://news.sky.com/story/1302864/malaysian-plane-shot-down-with-295-on-board

When I first read the title, I thought that it was a hoax. WTF man? This is serious shit. The rebels went too far with this. Now the NATO and the US is having a valid reason to invade Ukraine. Donbass militia shot itself on the foot.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-17/fingerpointing-begins-ukraine-accuses-rebels-shooting-down-airplane-rebels-deny

We need to wait to learn who did it.

I doubt we will have a clear answer for this.

But why would the Ukrainians do this?
This is no in their favor no matter how you look at it?

Why would the Russians do this? Most people would sure look at them as they did this as a reason for a military intervention.
Also nato won't take this kind of bait.

The rebels are out of the question if the plane was flying at high attitude.

A suicide attempt?

Common...there was a rocket fired at that plane.
If you want to commit suicide you don't stay on the sidewalk and wait for a truck to lose control and hit you.

President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources
http://rt.com/news/173672-malaysia-plane-crash-putin/

Unless it was a close by jet fighter, people from ground can't see the plane colors in the radar.

If they really tried to hit Putin's plane, they're in a giant pile of shit right now.

It can't be the rebles, too high. So its either Russia throwing up a false flag, or its Ukraine, actually trying to hit Putin's plane.

You smart brains should help me solve this shit in the 2277 thread instead. You all know that is where we need to look for a look into the future of the coming days.. shits just about to blow up.

But what would Ukraine get by killing Putin?! A full-scale war with Russia?! Doesn't make much sense...

295 were on board.

The altitude was 10000 meters.

"Buk" of Ukrainian forces was transferred to that area a few days ago.

The black boxes will be transferred to the international authorities.

Ukraine didn't close the airspace, even though most of the ground infrastructure is destroyed.

A few hours before the plane was shot down, Ukrainian MSM published an article saying as if the freedom fighters have Buk.

Today's flight path of the Malaysian flight was especially changed today by the Ukrainians.

Witnesses saw a fighter jet in the area.

They get to say that Putin is dead. If putin died then Russia would likely become much more euro-integrated. Just saying.

If Putin die of natural causes, then the next president can be more EU-friendly... or not.
If Putin gets murdered by Ukrainians that would mean a war, and Ukraine can't stand a war with Russia. That would be suicide!

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/07/russian-separatist-leader-claimed-responsibility-for-downing-mh17/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/07/photo-pro-russian-buk-missile-system-under-camo-on-street-in-ukraine/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/07/horrific-scenes-from-mh17-crash-site-photos/

If they wouldve killed Putin they could succesfully blow up London or New York With a nuke and blame Russia. Now? No, probably not.

With no proofs.

Watching direct news from Donetsk. They deny any responsibility and they maintain that they don't have weaponry to reach above 4000m.

One of the versions is that the plane should have fallen on Russian territory, so as to fully blame Russia.

Donetsk' leader, Boroday, said that the freedom fighters agree to a 2-day seize-fire in military activities to clean after the disaster.

With their leader gone you really think there would be a war, especially if EU promises Russia money and land & Ukraine claims its an accident? The EU would supposedly be nice to Russia to compensate it, perhaps even giving Russia claim to some of Ukraine, in the meantime making Russia more dependent on Europe just as their original goal was for Ukraine.

A Spanish flight controller, who works in Kiev, twitted that before the crash, he saw on the radar two Ukrainian jets shadowing the airliner.
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405625238


Kiev deployed powerful surface-to-air missile systems to E. Ukraine ahead of the Malaysian plane crash – reports
http://rt.com/news/173636-buk-malaysian-plane-crash/

All lies.  The Russian seps claimed responsibility for it, they thought it was an an-26 now they are in full cover up mode.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?hl=en&q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fvk.com%2Fwall-57424472_7256

They never did. Besides, to shoot down a plane at 10000km, you need to see it. The resistance don't have Buks. Capturing a Buk is not enough to use it - you need a thorough education on its usage.

...The Spanish controller also reported that the Ukrainian military shot down the plane, though it is still not clear who gave the order
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405625238

So, the pro-russian "terrorists", which now are in "full cover up mode",  almost killed Putin.

Conclusion: Putin is not responsible for the "terrorists" in the eastern Ukraine.

So, then all sanctions etc can be withdrawn.


Perfect.

Oh, no. Quite the contrary. Even when Poroshenko catches a cold, it'll be a reason to put new sanctions on Russia.

Live updates on the disaster here:
http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-plane-crash-ukraine/

Now now to be fair, it could have been a false flag sent up by Putin to try to get this exact reaction. Long story short we really don't know what happened for sure. Even my guess is just a guess.

Since we're not going to know the truth for a while (we can guess at it, but never really know) this means that different country's news broadcast networks will just display whatever is the most convenient hypothesis as if it were the truth. If the public in each such country accepts his or her local news source, then there will be diverging views of the "truth" in each country. If this happens, war is many times more likely.

Sorry but with the equipment they captured last week and tweeted about they could have.  Protip: they did not check what kind of plane it was, they just fired

Give land to Russia?! That's like bring water to the ocean or sand to the desert! It's already the World's biggest country.
Russia is a major World player, not some small feudal corner of Earth. Russia can't be played that way, and Russians are miles away from being a dumb people.

Still, this Russia vs Europe is in a way senseless, Russia IS part of Europe too.

You can't "just fire" a "Buk". You need at least two years of training....

In the meantime, Donetsk resistance has intelligence information that Ukrainians will artillery shell the crash to remove any clues and to change the conditions.
They plea with the "international community" to affect the Ukrainian side to assure a demilitarised zone on the crash site.
http://rusvesna.su/news/1405619920

If they don't care about land, then why did they want Ukraine so bad?>

Regional supremacy is a bit different than "want land", they want to keep their sphere of influence, not Ukraine itself. In a way they want to be Ukraine's bully.

The logical answer: "They" didn't.
But the Russian majority in Novorossia didn't want to put up with the coup d'etat in Kiev....
The other question is, what is Ukraine? Some educational reading: http://stanislavs.org/two-ukraines/

Yes and literally taking some or all of it into their own country, especially if it is "gifted" to them, is the ultimate way to achieve that. If the Europeans could justify doing that, while hopefully also making the Russians more dependant on the EU, it would be a no-brainer. You think the Europeans care about Ukraine?

Yes, I agree with this thinking.
In fact, I think that Putin was to restore old Russian kingdom (or USSR) and scare all neighboring countries by showing what will happen to them if they try to separate from Russia and join EU or NATO.

The Ukraine would allow Russia to have a greater military advantage over Eastern Europe and there are major trade routes via sea that border the Ukraine. Controlling Ukraine would allow Russia to control these routes.

Yes; thus they want land.

Okay, maybe I was too vaggue. I didn't imply that Russia wanted just random pieces of land, obviously they want pieces of land that are strategically positioned (its real estate after all :)). But. Still they want land.

Are You banned by Google maps?
Check Russian Federation ports on Black Sea.

http://www.marinetraffic.com

no surprise to me whatsoever that this kind of thing happens just after they manage to get Ukraine onto the EU side. It stinks of US/Western false flag.

My opinion is that they are furious with Putin for stopping their efforts to take over Syria so they moved onto a new plan, go after Putin and Russia. They managed to get their greedy little claws into Ukraine, and then "oh surprise" a disaster happens that they can blame on Russia.

This world really is fucked up, the big powers are destroying the world without a care, whilst the other 99.99% of us just want to live a peaceful life and get on with our neighbours, mind our own business and worry about our own life.

Really are some scarily sick minded people at the top of the elite tree

Too bad everything bad is happening with Malaysian Airlines this year and as far as Ukraine is concerned,The rebels are really trying to deal some damage but Russia should have solved this matter on Table.

Too early to reach any conclusions. The plane was either brought down with the S-300 SAMs or the Buk SAMs. Both the weapons systems are highly advanced, and need specific expertise / launch codes to use them. So it is very unlikely that the rebels downed this plane. Even if the rebels were in possession of the vehicle mounted SAMs, they would still be unable to use them.

Europe must be proud of itself now. European leaders looked the other way when evidence emerged that snipers with the Maidan forces were behind the infamous mass killing on Kiev, they looked the other way when it emerged Proshenko army was used banned weapons such as white phosphorus on the civilian population.
Could they look the other way know? Where is the red line for EU?

Absolutely frightening
As German soldiers on the Eastern Front liked to sing " Alles ist verrueckt"...

Same event happened a few years ago with Georgia. Coincident or something bigger at played?

It wasn't quite the same. That time it was a Russian cargo plane that got shot down. Interestingly, Ukrainian Army's missile launchers were used during that attack as Ukrainian thugs sided with Georgia against South Ossetia, something that Ossetins have not forgotten and bear a grudge for.

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By the way, the plane fell in a densely populated area, so it was a lucky escape for the people on the ground that none of the debris fell on houses or people: