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Title: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: fcmatt on March 20, 2012, 05:33:40 PM Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoinica?
Last night I was watching the order book. Some ask orders came in which involved blocks of around 600 BTC each. They started around 4.82 and worked themselves right up to 4.86-4.87. Once bitcoinca had a sell price of 4.86 for about a few minutes they immediately disappeared. This makes me think things were manipulated to get in a good short price which over the last 24 hours could have resulted in a tidy 10 cent profit per BTC shorted. Now since I was watching i decided to join in the fun and also did a short at 4.8646. I should have already let it go but I decided to just wait and see what happens. I just have to wonder how many other games are being played by folks who have enough BTC/cash? Can you give other "possible" examples? It seems like I and possibly others are now waiting to see what the manipulators do because without them the bitcoin market would just hum along with little to no change (excluding external forces like hacking and what not). I would imagine they have a lot of cash once again instead of BTC? Anyway.. just food for though. Perhaps the tinfoil hat is in order here. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: dopamine on March 20, 2012, 05:51:24 PM People are waiting for a new trend. The bids are looking pretty light especially when all major trend line have been broken and a recent sell off. I'm waiting till we see at least 4.50
Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: proudhon on March 20, 2012, 06:07:07 PM People are waiting for a new trend. The bids are looking pretty light especially when all major trend line have been broken and a recent sell off. I'm waiting till we see at least 4.50 I'm not buying again until we go below $4. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: fcmatt on March 20, 2012, 06:52:00 PM enjoy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67578.0 I recall that happening and that is not what I was referring to. These were actual orders that influenced bitcoinica's values. While those did not if I recall correctly. They put them in (ask orders), influenced bitcoinica (i think), got their short, and canceled the asks. All within several minutes. Just thought it was worth mentioning. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: notme on March 20, 2012, 07:13:18 PM enjoy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67578.0 I recall that happening and that is not what I was referring to. These were actual orders that influenced bitcoinica's values. While those did not if I recall correctly. They put them in (ask orders), influenced bitcoinica (i think), got their short, and canceled the asks. All within several minutes. Just thought it was worth mentioning. Um... Only bids can influence the sell price on bitcoinica. They don't give a shit what others want to sell for. The care what others will buy for when determining what price their customers can sell for. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: fcmatt on March 20, 2012, 07:19:33 PM enjoy https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=67578.0 I recall that happening and that is not what I was referring to. These were actual orders that influenced bitcoinica's values. While those did not if I recall correctly. They put them in (ask orders), influenced bitcoinica (i think), got their short, and canceled the asks. All within several minutes. Just thought it was worth mentioning. Um... Only bids can influence the sell price on bitcoinica. They don't give a shit what others want to sell for. The care what others will buy for when determining what price their customers can sell for. I reversed the term. I meant bids. Sorry about the confusion. My first post used the correct term. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: navigator on March 20, 2012, 09:05:52 PM Yes fcmatt, people are doing what you describe. I don't know why others in this thread are trying to derail your topic. I figured it out a while back. I've done it a few times with ~$1K. Put up a bid wall, it raised the sell price on bitcoinica by 1-2cents, put in your short at bitcoinica, then remove your bid. It works the other way too.
Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: Hunterbunter on March 20, 2012, 09:10:31 PM Any time a wall appears close to trade I think there's a high chance this is happening.
The person still has to know / expect the market to move a particular way afterwards, though...perhaps without their influence. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: ElectricMucus on March 21, 2012, 01:41:25 PM The trick is to look at the spread graph and use several limit orders each day to get a position. Cumbersome but your position improves significantly, even better than if you have a wall to position against.
Independently: You really wanna short now? Risky... Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 21, 2012, 04:35:52 PM Doing this can result in your Bitcoinica account being closed. We don't allow fraudulent orders that try to cheat the pricing bot.
We are rolling out a major rewrite of our order matching engine for much faster order processing to eliminate the possibility of fraudulent orders. EDIT: We closed one account during the early days of Bitcoinica because of fraudulent trading. After that, we implemented pricing algorithm version 2, and it's harder to manipulate the price now. We are going to release pricing algorithm version 4 soon. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: fcmatt on March 21, 2012, 04:47:44 PM Doing this can result in your Bitcoinica account being closed. We don't allow fraudulent orders that try to cheat the pricing bot. We are rolling out a major rewrite of our order matching engine for much faster order processing to eliminate the possibility of fraudulent orders. EDIT: We closed one account during the early days of Bitcoinica because of fraudulent trading. After that, we implemented pricing algorithm version 2, and it's harder to manipulate the price now. We are going to release pricing algorithm version 4 soon. That is good to hear. The market is so small a few thousand BTC/USD can really walk the price up/down several cents in some situations to improve your short/long. I was basically watching it happen again last night. But in the case of last night, the person was sold into a couple of times defeating their attempt. (I think, this is all speculation). It just seems it will be impossible to totally defeat it unless you want to delay moving the price as quickly when new orders pop up or go away? Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: notme on March 21, 2012, 06:06:47 PM Doing this can result in your Bitcoinica account being closed. We don't allow fraudulent orders that try to cheat the pricing bot. We are rolling out a major rewrite of our order matching engine for much faster order processing to eliminate the possibility of fraudulent orders. EDIT: We closed one account during the early days of Bitcoinica because of fraudulent trading. After that, we implemented pricing algorithm version 2, and it's harder to manipulate the price now. We are going to release pricing algorithm version 4 soon. That is good to hear. The market is so small a few thousand BTC/USD can really walk the price up/down several cents in some situations to improve your short/long. I was basically watching it happen again last night. But in the case of last night, the person was sold into a couple of times defeating their attempt. (I think, this is all speculation). It just seems it will be impossible to totally defeat it unless you want to delay moving the price as quickly when new orders pop up or go away? Faster trade execution will help. People will stop doing this if bitcoinica chews up their own orders. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: fcmatt on March 21, 2012, 06:23:55 PM Doing this can result in your Bitcoinica account being closed. We don't allow fraudulent orders that try to cheat the pricing bot. We are rolling out a major rewrite of our order matching engine for much faster order processing to eliminate the possibility of fraudulent orders. EDIT: We closed one account during the early days of Bitcoinica because of fraudulent trading. After that, we implemented pricing algorithm version 2, and it's harder to manipulate the price now. We are going to release pricing algorithm version 4 soon. That is good to hear. The market is so small a few thousand BTC/USD can really walk the price up/down several cents in some situations to improve your short/long. I was basically watching it happen again last night. But in the case of last night, the person was sold into a couple of times defeating their attempt. (I think, this is all speculation). It just seems it will be impossible to totally defeat it unless you want to delay moving the price as quickly when new orders pop up or go away? Faster trade execution will help. People will stop doing this if bitcoinica chews up their own orders. I guess I do not understand how this will help. I am slow today. I want to short at 4.86. I put in a sell order for 2500 BTC. The current bid is at 4.78. An hour later the market seems right for manipulation by putting up a few walls of bids as there is a large difference between the lowest ask and the highest bid. So i put 400 BTC at 4.82. I put 400 BTC at 4.84. I put 400 BTC at 4.86. I put 400 BTC at 4.88. I am getting pretty close to my target and the nearest ask is still at 4.92. My order executes at 4.861 and I am now short 2500 BTC. I remove all my bids. How would faster order execution help in this case? Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: Qoheleth on March 21, 2012, 08:45:42 PM So i put 400 BTC at 4.82. I put 400 BTC at 4.84. I put 400 BTC at 4.86. I put 400 BTC at 4.88. I am getting pretty close to my I'm not sure that the example you gave here is actually valid.target and the nearest ask is still at 4.92. My order executes at 4.861 and I am now short 2500 BTC. I remove all my bids. How would faster order execution help in this case? When you go to put in your short at Bitcoinica, the Mt. Gox market depth at 4.86 is still only (your own) 800BTC. Not enough for Bitcoinica to materialize your short on the open market (since presumably nobody on Bitcoinica itself is bidding so high). So I don't think it should actually let you issue this short at that price. And if you did make big enough bids for the market depth to be sufficient to materialize a 2500BTC short, then... Bitcoinica would execute the short, and match it on the market using your own bids. Which means you've just short-sold 2500BTC to yourself, and paid 2500BTC worth of market commissions to accomplish basically nothing. (Edit: the way fast order execution helps is if you manage to cancel your bids between placing your short on Bitcoinica and Bitcoinica executing your short, because then your coins aren't the ones left holding the bag.) Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: fcmatt on March 21, 2012, 10:01:43 PM So i put 400 BTC at 4.82. I put 400 BTC at 4.84. I put 400 BTC at 4.86. I put 400 BTC at 4.88. I am getting pretty close to my I'm not sure that the example you gave here is actually valid.target and the nearest ask is still at 4.92. My order executes at 4.861 and I am now short 2500 BTC. I remove all my bids. How would faster order execution help in this case? When you go to put in your short at Bitcoinica, the Mt. Gox market depth at 4.86 is still only (your own) 800BTC. Not enough for Bitcoinica to materialize your short on the open market (since presumably nobody on Bitcoinica itself is bidding so high). So I don't think it should actually let you issue this short at that price. And if you did make big enough bids for the market depth to be sufficient to materialize a 2500BTC short, then... Bitcoinica would execute the short, and match it on the market using your own bids. Which means you've just short-sold 2500BTC to yourself, and paid 2500BTC worth of market commissions to accomplish basically nothing. (Edit: the way fast order execution helps is if you manage to cancel your bids between placing your short on Bitcoinica and Bitcoinica executing your short, because then your coins aren't the ones left holding the bag.) First, and as always this is just speculation, that when the price is walked up and I ASSUME someone is trying to short on bitcoinica, that I never see what I think is bitcoinica actually selling BTC to match it. Overall they may buy and sell themselves to equalize their internal books to run their business but not for every specific order. Otherwise would I not see my own shorts show up on mtgox as a sell order when I short 100-250 BTC? And I do watch. I am not convinced that bitcoinica actually sells any bitcoins when someone places a specific short. ??? Perhaps you are right though and it would be nice for someone more knowledgeable to answer. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: Hunterbunter on March 21, 2012, 10:17:58 PM I think they would match internally against buyers first, since they then don't have to pay a gox transaction fee.
I understand why they would want to do that...I'm just not sure if they realize it is at odds with the whole nature and point of shorting to begin with. If a person's transactions have no real effect on the market, it is incredibly easy to fuck with people if you know there are a lot of people leveraged (recent starfish problem, and now an "interest" problem). Also...in the real world 10,000 leveraged buys is a 10k move in the marketplace. If you do that on bitcoinica, you're exposing yourself to 10k risk without the real world benefit of just buying 10k shares. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 21, 2012, 10:22:25 PM I think they would match internally against buyers first, since they then don't have to pay a gox transaction fee. I understand why they would want to do that...I'm just not sure if they realize it is at odds with the whole nature and point of shorting to begin with. If a person's transactions have no real effect on the market, it is incredibly easy to fuck with people if you know there are a lot of people leveraged (recent starfish problem, and now an "interest" problem). Also...in the real world 10,000 leveraged buys is a 10k move in the marketplace. If you do that on bitcoinica, you're exposing yourself to 10k risk without the real world benefit of just buying 10k shares. We match internally only when we can. If one customer buys 100 and the other sells 50. We just buy 50 from the market, instead of buying 100 and then selling 50, which merely removes liquidity and increases transaction costs. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: Hunterbunter on March 21, 2012, 10:35:03 PM I think they would match internally against buyers first, since they then don't have to pay a gox transaction fee. I understand why they would want to do that...I'm just not sure if they realize it is at odds with the whole nature and point of shorting to begin with. If a person's transactions have no real effect on the market, it is incredibly easy to fuck with people if you know there are a lot of people leveraged (recent starfish problem, and now an "interest" problem). Also...in the real world 10,000 leveraged buys is a 10k move in the marketplace. If you do that on bitcoinica, you're exposing yourself to 10k risk without the real world benefit of just buying 10k shares. We match internally only when we can. If one customer buys 100 and the other sells 50. We just buy 50 from the market, instead of buying 100 and then selling 50, which merely removes liquidity and increases transaction costs. Like I said, I understand why you do it. What is your window to buffer a matched order? Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 22, 2012, 12:00:19 AM I think they would match internally against buyers first, since they then don't have to pay a gox transaction fee. I understand why they would want to do that...I'm just not sure if they realize it is at odds with the whole nature and point of shorting to begin with. If a person's transactions have no real effect on the market, it is incredibly easy to fuck with people if you know there are a lot of people leveraged (recent starfish problem, and now an "interest" problem). Also...in the real world 10,000 leveraged buys is a 10k move in the marketplace. If you do that on bitcoinica, you're exposing yourself to 10k risk without the real world benefit of just buying 10k shares. We match internally only when we can. If one customer buys 100 and the other sells 50. We just buy 50 from the market, instead of buying 100 and then selling 50, which merely removes liquidity and increases transaction costs. Like I said, I understand why you do it. What is your window to buffer a matched order? It's not a time buffer but an amount buffer. We don't disclose the exact amount, but it's definitely under 1000 ฿. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: notme on March 22, 2012, 12:20:44 AM Right, so it doesn't hurt Bitcoinica when you do this. It just gives a small advantage to the minority opinion in the market since they can set orders that won't be touched by their trades. This is a problem that will balance itself.
Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: Hunterbunter on March 22, 2012, 12:48:53 AM I think they would match internally against buyers first, since they then don't have to pay a gox transaction fee. I understand why they would want to do that...I'm just not sure if they realize it is at odds with the whole nature and point of shorting to begin with. If a person's transactions have no real effect on the market, it is incredibly easy to fuck with people if you know there are a lot of people leveraged (recent starfish problem, and now an "interest" problem). Also...in the real world 10,000 leveraged buys is a 10k move in the marketplace. If you do that on bitcoinica, you're exposing yourself to 10k risk without the real world benefit of just buying 10k shares. We match internally only when we can. If one customer buys 100 and the other sells 50. We just buy 50 from the market, instead of buying 100 and then selling 50, which merely removes liquidity and increases transaction costs. Like I said, I understand why you do it. What is your window to buffer a matched order? It's not a time buffer but an amount buffer. We don't disclose the exact amount, but it's definitely under 1000 ฿. I suspected as much, so that's good to know. Good luck with your business. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 22, 2012, 03:01:15 AM It's not a time buffer but an amount buffer. We don't disclose the exact amount, but it's definitely under 1000 ฿. internal matching go against the users everybody loses only bitcoinica wins money by saving mtgox fees, user dont have a alternative to bitcoinica and have to eat this crap, lets hope somebody make a alternative and you get some competition We hope to. We have nowhere to copy the good ideas from. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 22, 2012, 03:53:42 AM We hope to. We have nowhere to copy the good ideas from. any forex/CFD can give you some ideas, they have stuff like 100% order execution you can copy that Forex has no centralized market. So this guarantee is simply invalid. Any citations? Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 22, 2012, 10:41:46 PM Forex has no centralized market. So this guarantee is simply invalid. Any citations? nobody wants to trade where all order have internal matching, especially in a market like this when a buy or sell can change the current price preventing any matching if i sell the 50 at 4.82 the price goes down so is impossible to match my order with a buy order at same price, internal matching is reducing the impact i have on bitcoin market you tend to forget that you forget that we need market swing to make decent money but also you forget that when there are no swing the volume on bitcoinica drops like a rock If it's impossible to match, we will sell at Mt. Gox. That's guaranteed! We either match your order with another Bitcoinica customer or another Mt. Gox customer. There's no difference in market impact. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: RaggedMonk on March 23, 2012, 12:17:11 AM yes it is a market impact because the time between order is way to big that few second means allot 50 btc buy or sell can move the market 0,01 cent up or down put the time limit for internal matching to be 1 second and we all see the results What? I can't understand your meaning without grammar. Why would you want a time limit on internal matching? Zhou finds you the best price that can fill your order - internal or at Gox. Why is this a problem? Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: RaggedMonk on March 23, 2012, 01:21:36 AM Why is this a problem? is harder to move the price I am sorry, until you stop abusing the English language and start forming complete thoughts, I give up. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: fcmatt on March 23, 2012, 01:53:47 AM Why is this a problem? is harder to move the price I am sorry, until you stop abusing the English language and start forming complete thoughts, I give up. Give the guy a break. He probably knows 2-3 languages fluently and 1-2 others so-so like English. To criticize people like that is really odd considering they seem to be quite smart based on their language ability overall. This all assumes he is not a native English speaker. I hope. ;-) Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: guruvan on March 23, 2012, 02:48:35 AM It's not a time buffer but an amount buffer. We don't disclose the exact amount, but it's definitely under 1000 ฿. internal matching go against the users everybody loses only bitcoinica wins money by saving mtgox fees, user dont have a alternative to bitcoinica and have to eat this crap, lets hope somebody make a alternative and you get some competition IMO, Internal matching, if done without prejudice by the broker, simply increases order execution speed (something I'd really like from bitcoinica). Hard to prove lack of prejudice on the broker's side, but..... One thing that other brokers (i.e. Intersango) offer is a Fill or Kill order. Offering these would provide the order execution that it seems myself wants. - I want BTC50 @ USD4.77 - Does bitcoinica have orders to match? If yes, filled, if no, or partial, - Can the order be filled on the network (i.e. mtgox) if yes, fill order, if no, kill it. If the brokerages were smart, they'd form a network and defeat the arbitrage bots exploiting the difference in rates between them. This would make orders fill much faster, and show the actual true market cap of bitcoin. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: notme on March 23, 2012, 06:27:08 AM It's not a time buffer but an amount buffer. We don't disclose the exact amount, but it's definitely under 1000 ฿. internal matching go against the users everybody loses only bitcoinica wins money by saving mtgox fees, user dont have a alternative to bitcoinica and have to eat this crap, lets hope somebody make a alternative and you get some competition IMO, Internal matching, if done without prejudice by the broker, simply increases order execution speed (something I'd really like from bitcoinica). Hard to prove lack of prejudice on the broker's side, but..... One thing that other brokers (i.e. Intersango) offer is a Fill or Kill order. Offering these would provide the order execution that it seems myself wants. - I want BTC50 @ USD4.77 - Does bitcoinica have orders to match? If yes, filled, if no, or partial, - Can the order be filled on the network (i.e. mtgox) if yes, fill order, if no, kill it. If the brokerages were smart, they'd form a network and defeat the arbitrage bots exploiting the difference in rates between them. This would make orders fill much faster, and show the actual true market cap of bitcoin. +100 Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 23, 2012, 07:06:07 AM I am sorry, until you stop abusing the English language and start forming complete thoughts, I give up. how i explain you this lets say we have this perfect situation where the price is 5 usd the sell is 4,99 buy is 5,01 low awesome spread :) a 50 btc buy or sell will move the price 0,02 USD now i make a sell order at 12:00:00 for 50 btc and you make a buy order at 12:00:02 for 50 btc our orders are not internally matched because my order was 2 seconds earlier that yours my order gets executed the sell price goes down at 4,97 you buy order get executed the buy price goes to 5,03 this did change the price if our orders get internally matched nothing have changed and you or me have to spend additionally bitcoin to move the price u get my point ? Firstly, if it's 5000 btc not 50, I can guarantee that it will be hedged. Secondly, Bitcoinica was not designed to move the price. With the same amount of money, you almost always end up with more bought Bitcoins on Bitcoinica (without leverage). That's because your orders are being executed in 50 ฿ blocks. Thirdly, you can move the price more effectively at smaller exchanges. Bitcoinica is just too liquid for you. It depends on your definition of trading. You have the choice, but you can't prevent others from getting a better deal than you. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 23, 2012, 02:05:54 PM i used 50 like example because that is the chunk used on bitcoinica and now the 5000 you wont be all hedged you only hedge a part because of that when there is a major change in the marker the hedge on bitcoinica goes over 100% if bitcoinica is not designed to move the price why offer leverage ? remove the sell and buy buttons and put some sitting ducks bitcoinica to liquid give me a break 20 000 btc traded in last 24h that amount of bitcoins can be moved by a single user if you go to the point take or leave it there is not much i can say on that other that leave it If you buy or sell 5000 BTC now I can guarantee you more than 90% will be hedged, and you will move the price. The over-100% hedging has nothing to do with this. Bitcoinica is more liquid than Mt. Gox. (Bitcoinica liquidity = Bitcoinica dark pool + Mt. Gox order book) Again, liquidity has nothing to do with volume. We are going to release our limit order book and all executed trades to the public. Will announce the details soon. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: RyNinDaCleM on March 23, 2012, 06:47:58 PM We are going to release our limit order book and all executed trades to the public. Will announce the details soon. Nice! Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: guruvan on March 23, 2012, 11:03:18 PM Mt.Gox doesn't offer me any leverage.
Bitcoinica is a broker, Mt.Gox is an exchange. The rules are different, the opportunities are different. They're not stealing from you with the spread. The spread is necessarily higher than Mt.Gox to support those opportunities. Opportunity doesn't come free. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: Crypt_Current on March 24, 2012, 12:24:14 AM Mt.Gox doesn't offer me any leverage. Bitcoinica is a broker, Mt.Gox is an exchange. The rules are different, the opportunities are different. They're not stealing from you with the spread. The spread is necessarily higher than Mt.Gox to support those opportunities. Opportunity doesn't come free. +1 Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 24, 2012, 12:53:35 AM Doing this can result in your Bitcoinica account being closed. We don't allow fraudulent orders that try to cheat the pricing bot. We are rolling out a major rewrite of our order matching engine for much faster order processing to eliminate the possibility of fraudulent orders. EDIT: We closed one account during the early days of Bitcoinica because of fraudulent trading. After that, we implemented pricing algorithm version 2, and it's harder to manipulate the price now. We are going to release pricing algorithm version 4 soon. fraudulent orders??? LOL, it is you who is defrauding your customers by not accepting all orders - like a casino that asks you to leave if you are winning too much. cheat the pricing bot??? BWAHAHA, the 'pricing bot' forces you to pay a 2% spread when MtGox has a spread a tenth of that and you don't even have to pay it - who is cheating who? Mt. Gox spread isn't always effective spread. If the order is 0.1 ฿ it shouldn't be counted. Try looking for 50 ฿ liquidity on each side, and then add your Mt. Gox fee. Is Bitcoinica expensive after all? If you're paying 0.6% on Mt. Gox, you can almost always get a better deal on Bitcoinica. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: fcmatt on March 24, 2012, 02:37:53 AM going long on bitcoinica is getting quite expensive per day per 100 btc....
Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 24, 2012, 04:38:40 AM going long on bitcoinica is getting quite expensive per day per 100 btc.... If you use exchange feature you don't have to pay interest. If you borrow money to buy the 100 BTC then you need to pay 25 cents per day at current interest rate. Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: fcmatt on March 24, 2012, 07:28:17 AM going long on bitcoinica is getting quite expensive per day per 100 btc.... If you use exchange feature you don't have to pay interest. If you borrow money to buy the 100 BTC then you need to pay 25 cents per day at current interest rate. yet right now a short pays nothing. i am not clear why borrowing btc to sell also does not cost something let alone pays most of the time. how do you calculate such things? edited to add: i just sent some btc from bitcoinica to an address and it has said pending for the last 42 minutes... odd that something has to sit like that for so long. I should have seen it at least hit the network right away or are you doing something manually? Title: Re: Has anyone witnessed moving up the ask wall enough to get a good short on bitcoi Post by: zhoutong on March 24, 2012, 10:08:42 AM going long on bitcoinica is getting quite expensive per day per 100 btc.... If you use exchange feature you don't have to pay interest. If you borrow money to buy the 100 BTC then you need to pay 25 cents per day at current interest rate. yet right now a short pays nothing. i am not clear why borrowing btc to sell also does not cost something let alone pays most of the time. how do you calculate such things? edited to add: i just sent some btc from bitcoinica to an address and it has said pending for the last 42 minutes... odd that something has to sit like that for so long. I should have seen it at least hit the network right away or are you doing something manually? BTC costs less to get (depending on available customer deposits) and USD costs more. The interest rate difference determines the swap. |