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Apparently the US finally hunted down Bin Laden.  I'm waiting for the pictures.  Thoughts?

http://justjared.buzznet.com/2011/05/01/osama-bin-laden-dead-obama-to-announce/

I'm glad that justice was served.

I'm not glad with how it happened (the thousands, possibly millions of people who needlessly died and the money spent) and I'm not glad that this won't be a reason to bring our troops home.

Sure it's great they got him, but I'm still wondering how this can be called justice... How I read the news is that he was executed by the US army (together with a few others). Not taken into arrest, have him shipped to the US, given him a fair trail and let him rot in prison if found guilty. If this is true, his rights as a human were taken away and that would make the US not much better than himself. To me Bin Laden got the easy way out and I would not be happy with this type justice.

http://boards.4chan.org/b/res/326248972 (http://boards.4chan.org/b/res/326248972)

The likelihood of getting arrested in a fricking firefight is low.

They didn't tell in the news here that there was a fire fight. I had a similar idea as how it went with Sadam Hussain, but I guess you can't compare them in that way.

Well, how does Osama bin Laden got killed? He was shot dead by soldiers.

I won't call it justice, but I'm glad he won't hurt anyone anymore, nor will he propagate any more hate speech against non-muslim people.

My point was:
"Shot dead in fire fight by soldiers" vs. "Executed by soldiers"

IMHO second one would be a war crime, first one would be not.

FYI, I have a separate thread discussing the cost and alternatives such as assassination markets here: "US kills Osama bin Laden at cost of > $400 billion" (http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=7012).

Kudos to The Script for beating me in pressing the POST button...I did wait until I actually heard it from the horse's mouth.  But I actually got the news immediately when my regularly-scheduled TV show "CSI Miami" was in its conclusion and David Caruso finally figured out who done it, and I wanted to post to bitcoin forum, but I didn't have my labtop out and ready.  :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ox-Bow_Incident_(novel) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ox-Bow_Incident_(novel))

to be fair the article does say "captured and killed" which can be taken to mean executed.
and that would not surprise me in the least

I completely agree.

Ha ha, well sorry for stealing your thunder. I did wait until I had read about it in several articles before I posted. I hope the good guys won in your show....

Revenge != justice

Cheers,

This is an interesting point. In your opinion, then, what would justice look like for this situation? If Osama was fairly tried and found guilty, what would be the best way to serve justice? Monetary compensation for families? Execution by drowning in pig's blood? Life sentence in jail?  I'm curious to know what you think justice would look like. 

I have no idea, but I find it disturbing that $SOMEONE (be it Bush, Obama, or whoever) can wake up one day and decide to murder another human being because they don't like what he did.


I'll leave that to the court room, I'm not a lawyer.

Cheers,

GOODNIGHT SWEET PRINCE
March 10, 1957 – May 2, 2011

A news report I read this morning said he was firing at the soldiers, and despite that they gave him a chance to surrender. I also read he was buried at sea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjvZTl9bhuA

I think dropping him off in front of a NYC firehouse would have done the trick. That or life imprisonment. Of course, as long as we don't see a death certificate, there's still a chance, right?

I've heard some people say that trying him and burying him would make him a martyr and give his supporters a shrine. I think that that doesn't make sense because he's already a martyr and Islam strictly prohibits idol worship. Furthermore, I don't see why a trial might preclude a sea burial later on.

Is there actually any proof he is really dead?

I mean after almost 10years they finally found him, and what do they do, shoot him dead and than decide to throw him immediately in sea.

And we get an old photoshopped picture of him and a nice story how they killed him. Yeah right...  :-\


I hope it is true, but at this moment I'm not that sure of it.

inb4 new audio tape of Osama saying "death to america"  ;D

I think the fact that Obama interrupted Donald Trump's show to announce this speaks volumes

I ask the same question. Not that it's easy to fake such a thing, but still, if he was really killed, shouldn't there be evidences like videos and pictures at least? Has any been released to the media?

If they take too long to release anything that will remain suspicious.

Hooray, we killed some old man that wasn't an immediate threat to any of us. I can sleep better at night.

Hopefully Wikileaks will have something for us soon.

my care cup is empty  ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPFdbKLUmQk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPFdbKLUmQk) this song never gets old when it comes to the USA government. Not that I liked Osama.

News outlets here are reporting the SF soldiers were under specific orders to kill, not capture Bin Laden.

I was disappointed by President Obama's speech, when he kept stressing that this isn't a fight against Islam.

But if we are all honest, this is a fight against Islam. In essence, Islam, even in its most moderate form is a totalitarian ideology.  Islam is an ideology that does not believe in the non-aggression principle. Osama Ben Ladin used that very notion to justify his actions.

When it's perfectly acceptable for an American President to talk about a fighting Communism, fighting Nazism, fighting <insert totalitarian ideology>, why is it unacceptable to talk about fighting Islam? What, just because Islam labels itself "religion" it's exempt form critical analysis? What utter bullshit.

And before anyone here calls me a racist, hateful, or intolerant, remember that religion is a CHOICE and and race or place of birth aren't.

Of course I would always condemn initiation of violence against a Muslim just because of their beliefs. Everybody is free to believe what they want to.  But that doesn't mean that I won't decry and ridicule the mind virus that is Islam (and all other Abrahamic religions for that matter) at any opportunity.

Islam (the ideology itself, not the ethnic groups who follow it) is one of the biggest threats to the world.  We ain't seen nothing yet.  

For hundreds of years, religious adherents have been finding ways to reinterpret their ancient doctrines to fit with modern moral thinking and Islam is no different. It's not Islam itself that is the threat but the actual people that refuse to reexamine their dogmas in light of humanistic advancements. If Islam is a threat then so is every other religion that once preached death to certain groups. Most Christians have found ways to disregard the violent aspects of their religion and so can Muslims.

There were apparently live tweets during the raid by
https://twitter.com/#!/ReallyVirtual (https://twitter.com/#!/ReallyVirtual)  (source thru techdirt http://bit.ly/itviNJ (http://bit.ly/itviNJ))

And a nice youtube video of the supposed hideout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlWMsApBOws

The view count seems blocked at 301 :)

I know quite a bit of Muslims, nice and friendly people to work with.

And Obama does?

It's never acceptable because it doesn't make sense. You can't fight, let alone defeat, an idea.

On a less serious note: http://youtu.be/u8A2unABbtA (http://youtu.be/u8A2unABbtA)

I know several Muslims too, they're good people, just misguided by ideology.

Ask your moderate Muslims friends whether they would support laws making it illegal to make fun of their imaginary friends, and you'll see what I mean with the non-aggression principle.

In many cases they are  simply repeating what they were told as children, and not giving much thought to the implications of such views.

As long as Islam is above criticism, they won't change their minds any time soon.

You can fight it with education, open debate, and ostracism.

On a more serious note: http://www.americanussr.com/american-ussr-osama-bin-laden.htm (http://www.americanussr.com/american-ussr-osama-bin-laden.htm)

You can't do any of those things to ideas. You can only do them to people. Your target ideas will always exist, even in the minds of people who do not subscribe to them.

and all of that just a couple of days after:

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/04/amateur-adobe-user-easily-finds-obamas.html

father's country of birth: Kenya, impossible, as its name then was British East Africa Protectorate. Kenya became independent in 1963.

 Name of the hospital - didn't exist  Kauikeolani Children’s Hospital merged with Kapiolani Hospital to become Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children in 1978 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kapiolani_Medical_Center_for_Women_and_Children

as i am not an usa citizen i don't really care, but timing of those events is quite odd ;) :D

I hope it was all worth the lives of the thousands of people killed in war since the twin towers came down. People dont hate you for your freedoms they hate you because you bomb their wedding and interfere in their own destiny. A bit of forgiveness would have gone a long way to save all this death and destruction.

Cool! Now if only they would catch Emmanuel Goldstein I could start sleeping with the light off again.

:(  It's really depressing sometimes, trying to convince other Americans this is the case.  They are so indoctrinated in the Righteousness of the Cause that they won't listen to any facts you present to them.  It makes people like me unpopular because we don't blindly worship American Goodness and spout bullshit about spreading democracy and freedom.

Could the number one most wanted scapegoat of the USG really elude capture for 10 years??  I call BS.

Who gives a s*** about that guy. On the other hand, if it results in withdrawing the troops out of Afghanistan, then that's actually a good thing.

Obviously, the answer to violence is just more violence.

Vote for Ron Paul.  :P

I talked to a friend the other day about just getting back from Iraq. I asked what he was doing there and he said, "combat communications." I said, "Combat communications? I thought Obama said that the combat troops were gone." He said, "They call them contingency operations now, but it's the same thing." So if you really want something to change, you'd have to do something like vote for Ron Paul.

In 2012, I only get to choose between a bunch of socialists and an angry dwarf. gj France.

Lol  I confess I am fairly ignorant of French politics, but I believe Markosy is your current president.  Is he running for re-election?

Perhaps the British didn't call it Kenya until 1963, but that doesn't mean the Kenyans and others didn't refer to it as Kenya.  You provide no evidence either way.

Did you even bother to read the Wikipedia article before cutting and pasting from someone else's post?  It clearly states that the merger did not even began until 1976, though it lasted about 10 years.  Also, the name of the Hospital was changed to "Kapiʻolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital" in 1931 and not changed again until 1971, which would mean that it is correctly listed on Obama's birth certificate.

I'm not fan of Obama, but you shouldn't be citing these things as "facts" without citing any evidence (Kenya), or when the evidence you do supply contradicts your statement.

As unpopular as he is, Sarkozy is running for re-election indeed.

Oops, shit, "Sarkozy".  Is he the dwarf or the one of the socialists?

He's the dwarf (he's like 5"3 and angry), and his terrible handling of states affair has opened the door wide opened for the socialists to win in 2012. You have to understand, the leftists are the "good guys" in France.

That sucks, dude.  At least in America we have Ron Paul, even if there is no one else who believes in liberty.  You know, I'm not so sure Louis XIV was wrong when he said "L'etat c'est moi".  He meant only himself, but really I am the state and you are the state, everyone is individually sovereign over themselves.  Too bad more politicians don't think so...

French political tendencies are modeled around the poeple who beheaded Louis XVI, guys like Jean Jacques Rousseau, who states outright that a proper society cannot be achieved while private property is maintained.

one angry dwarf  ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwFBshjGe8I
boy do I have the wrong idea about the revolution.

time to trawl through Wikipedia 

This whole story is just too much.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidences.

How come you kill Bin Laden and you get rid of the body ???

Imagine if some armed group came by before it and said "Hey, we have killed Bin Laden! We had to get rid of the body immediately after to avoid complications, but yeah, we did kill him! Where is our $25 million reward?"
Could anyone take such group seriously?
Because Obama is doing the exact same thing, only that he wishes better poll results instead of $25m.

im not saying that this birth certificate conspiracy theory is true in any way (although wikipedia is no more credible source than most of that kind of sites), just seems to be plenty of commotion around that in last week and now they somehow killed most wanted man that was hiding for 10 years and immediately after that they dumped body into sea because of 24 hours muslim tradition?

suspicioooooous... http://www.myvideo.be/watch/5356065

Nothing to see here...move along slave.

Sure.  I'm suspicious too.  I'm waiting until I see pictures, at least.  And wikipedia isn't the best source, but in my experience it tends to be pretty accurate.  Whatever the case, don't cite sources that contradict statements you are making.  Not if you want to be taken seriously...  :)

If they exist, I'm not sure I would want the pictures out. Sure, I would love to see them, but a lot of people are mad at us and I think this could only fan the flames. What does it mean if he's dead (or alive) and I don't see the pictures? Not a lot (even to me). But what if he is dead and the pictures come out and inspire more violence against Americans? Think about how Americans felt when they saw this: http://www.poynterextra.org/cp/AP.jpg

Now compare it with this and you'll see the only difference is that we don't have a picture of a dead bin Laden:http://world247.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/WhiteHouseCelebreationOsamaDead.jpg

Now they just need to get out and protect Americans where Americans are.

Here are the Venus Project and Zeitgeist Movement repsonses.

http://youtu.be/-KXgHqp2juQ

======================================

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
 
TZM: Response to Media; Death of Osama bin Laden
 
On May 1, 2011 Pres. Barack Obama appeared on national television with the spontaneous announcement that Osama bin Laden, the purported organizer of the tragic events of September 11th 2001, was killed by military forces in Pakistan.
 
Within moments, a media blitz ran across virtually all television networks in what could only be described as a grotesque celebratory display, reflective of a level of emotional immaturity that borders on cultural psychosis. Depictions of people running through the streets of New York and Washington chanting jingoistic American slogans, waving their flags like the members of some cult, praising the death of another human being, reveals yet another layer of this sickness we call modern society.
 
It is not the scope of this response to address the political usage of such an event or to illuminate the staged orchestration of how public perception was to be controlled by the mainstream media and the United States Government. Rather the point of this article is to express the gross irrationality apparent and how our culture becomes so easily fixed and emotionally charged with respect to surface symbology, rather than true root problems, solutions or rational considerations of circumstance.
 
The first and most obvious point is that the death of Osama bin Laden means nothing when it comes to the problem of international terrorism. His death simply serves as catharsis for a culture that has a neurotic fixation on revenge and retribution. The very fact that the Government which, from a psychological standpoint, has always served as a paternal figure for it citizens, reinforces the idea that murdering people is a solution to anything should be enough for most of us to take pause and consider the quality of the values coming out of the zeitgeist itself.
 
However, beyond the emotional distortions and tragic, vindictive pattern of rewarding the continuation of human division and violence comes a more practical consideration regarding what the problem really is and the importance of that problem with respect to priority.
 
The death of any human being is of an immeasurable consequence in society. It is never just the death of the individual. It is the death of relationships, companionship, support and the integrity of familial and communal environments. The unnecessary deaths of 3000 people on September 11, 2001 is no more or no less important than the deaths of those during the World Wars, via cancer and disease, accidents or anything else.
 
As a society, it is safe to say that we seek a world that strategically limits all such unnecessary consequences through social approaches that allow for the greatest safety our ingenuity can create. It is in this context that the neurotic obsession with the events of September 11th, 2001 become gravely insulting and detrimental to progress. An environment has now been created where outrageous amounts of money, resources and energy is spent seeking and destroying very small subcultures of human beings that pose ideological differences and act on those differences through violence.
 
Yet, in the United States alone each year, roughly 30,000 people die from automobile accidents, the majority of which could be stopped by very simple structural changes. That's ten 9/11's each year... yet no one seems to pine over this epidemic. Likewise, over 1 million Americans die from heart disease and cancer annually - causes of which are now easily linked to environmental influences in the majority. Yet, regardless of the over 330 9/11's occurring each year in this context, the governmental budget allocations for research on these illnesses is only a fraction of the money spent on “anti-terrorism” operations.
 
Such a list could go on and on and with regard to the perversion of priority when it comes to what it means to truly save and protect human life and I hope many out there can recognize the severe unbalance we have at hand with respect to our values.
 
So, coming back to the point of revenge and retribution, I will conclude this response with a quote from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., likely the most brilliant intuitive mind when it came to conflict and the power of non-violence. On September 15, 1963 a Birmingham Alabama church was bombed, killing four little girls attending Sunday school.
 
In a public address, Dr. King stated:
 
“What murdered these four girls? Look around. You will see that many people that you never thought about participated in this evil act. So tonight all of us must leave here with a new determination to struggle. God has a job for us to do. Maybe our mission is to save the soul of America. We can't save the soul of this nation throwing bricks. We can't save the soul of this nation getting our ammunitions and going out shooting physical weapons. We must know that we have something much more powerful. Just take up the ammunition of love.”
 
- Dr. Martin Luther King, 1963
 
~Peter Joseph
wwwthezeitgeistmovement.com

Yeah, they should at least hash some piece of evidence (such as picture or dna) inside the bitcoin block chain so that his death can be independently verified. *disclaimer: I don't know how this would work or if it very useful:)

But seriously, if the US government was genuinely interested in having people believe the veracity of their claim, then think of how easy it would have been for the US to have invited reporters from all major news outlets (US and international agencies such as guardian, rt, al jazerra, xinhua, pakistan times, etc.) to the burial to see the dead body.  Trust but verify.

Geraldo did something like that once. It didn't work out so good.

Link please?  Explain.  Im not aware about what you are reffering to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mystery_of_Al_Capone%27s_Vault#Program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mystery_of_Al_Capone%27s_Vault#Program)

My point is that there was a chance that bin Laden was not there and the administration wouldn't want the media present for such an unfortunate outcome.

No, I'm suggesting that the US could have called up the major news agencies *after* killing Osama so that reports could be present at the burial within 24 hours.

I tend to believe he's dead. Haven't seen any remotely credible claims he's not. No tapes, no statements, nothing.

The interesting thing, to me, here is that this seems to have been a kill order, not a capture order. What would have happened, had Osama Bin Laden been captured and put on trial?

I think a number of things:
First, protracted public unrest, probably assassination attempts, endless media circus etc.
More importantly, though, it would have forced the US government to go over the whole rationale for the war on terrorism again - it would have been difficult to prosecute Osama without ending up talking about why the US went to war in Afghanistan, then somehow ended up in Iraq. Osama's perspective on that might have been quite interesting. And who knows what kind of info Osama had on US politicians... No, they had to kill him.

I think Osama bin Laden tries to resist. It didn't go well.

I think his bodyguards executed him per his instruction to prevent capture.

Ive always viewed the government as being like the mafia. Then they go and bury Osama at sea like from a Sopranos episode and it confirms it .  :D

If that guy held some information he might bargain with during the trial, then that head shot and "put to sleep with the fishes" are more than convenient... Don Obama... ooops!... Tony Soprano wouldn't do any better.

To the very end however this whole story stinks! No pictures, no body, no evidence at all... like we should just believe Obama sent his thugs to kill Osama and that's it.
And then see Americans celebrate like Palestinians who just killed a Jew... to some point it looks like the West is as much civilized as the Middle East. Celebrate death, even of that "creature", is a synonym of barbarity (Doesn't mean you need to mourn him either).

Is it so wrong to want to be a Klingon?

Probably. But that doesn't mean the US forces actually killed him.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts302.html

Last night, the inevitable question came up to Ron Paul about his wanting to leave Afghanistan previously and that preventing America from killing bin Laden.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgbiCK1E59w&t=3m30s

It's thing like this that really make me question people. You didn't realize that Osama wasn't killed in Afghanistan? Nor did you realize that that he wasn't killed by some large military unit, but by a special group of Seals who report directly to the president and could've been sent there on a moment's notice as it is? So tell me, do you still believe that continuing to nation build in Afghanistan is in our interests? http://fwd4.me/3DL Oh, I see now.

Most people foolishly or naively believe that Osama Bin Laden died a week ago primarily due to plethora of corrupted media sources helping to propogate such misinformation to continue deceiptful perceptions amongst billions of people that cannot think or understand critically.

Hint: http://breaking.witcoin.com/p/1476/Osama-bin-Laden-already-died-in-2001

I am one person.  I do not consider myself corrupt.  Do you?

You know what leads me to believe on those so called "conspiracy theories"? The pictures of Bin Laden.
Photography, video and audio evolved along with technology, if today you see a video or picture from the 80's you automatically know it's old, not only by the weird hair looks of the folks but by the grain, interference and glossy colors of the picture itself, even if remastered those pictures will still look old.
The world colors also come to be a hint, as it was normal up to mid 90's to see many brown, brick and sand-colored clothing, buildings, cars, etc... colors you don't normally see today on man-made things.
On audio you have the interference of mechanical parts, removed now with digital recording but common up to mid 2000's.

Now, when a simple mobile phone can take pictures up to 12 Mpx, all the pictures and audio records of Bin Laden resembles, at best, the technology of early 2000's. There's not a single picture, audio or video record someone can say to be taken after 2003~2005.

Although you may consider that this communicated event without any lack of evidence or proof may provide suspicion that he is not dead.  It is more likely that the effort of supposedly burying him in a way that is practically untraceable is to cover up the fact that he deaded over a decade ago.


It is VERY easy to fake: http://breaking.witcoin.com/p/1476/#r-2429

The fakes do not have to be realistic.  As long as you are a kind of entity that has a following, whether you lie, fabricate, make up stuff or not, the people that follow after you will tend to repeat from you, because you are their friend or are acceptant of them.

I, for one, am not acceptant of my corrupted parents, family or friends.  I appreciate more individuals that are not lazy, excuseful, corrupted or have hidden or malicious agendas.

Anyone here on the forum is welcome to reject and oppose these types of informations as they desire.  This type of rejection is similar to other types of oppositions/rejections (e.g. opposition/rejection of using Bitcoin).  I will not bother to respond to such oppositions or rejections as it is obnoxious, meaningless and practically troll-liek.  My parents are trolls and quite obnoxiously corrupt.  They have no value to me; not even today, Mother's day.*

* Yes I did just recently visit my Mom for vacation in San Francisco.  However, OMFGZ DRAMA due to corruption and craziness as well as lack of comprehension or understanding of words that I communicate and their related meanings, which are met with nonsensical scripted responses.  I don't want to become anymore crazy than I already am particularly from corrupted and compromised influencial sources, especially parents.


The particular individual is unimportant other than the advertised or marketed value established of him, whether from actual provable events or entirely fabricated like fictional movies, books, sitcoms, newscasts, etc.





Wrong.  Don't vote at all.  Voting for another president will be voluntarily causing further contributory efforts towards the continuation of corruption, control, enslavement, and misinformation propagation.


Even if Ron Paul establishes effort to uncorrupt the plethora of corrupted government agencies, corporations, individuals, etc, it seems like he would be assassinated or murdered before having opportunity to accomplish these types of things.  It seems more likely that he (like anyone else) would be susceptible to corruption and therefore evolve into yet another terrorist (one that is not marketed or advertised predominantly as one, but that approves of or shows acceptance towards plethora amounts of terrorist activities/efforts that are instead marketed or labeled in words that help to convince others to accept and approve such activities/efforts (e.g. "department of defense" instead of "department of war").




As referenced above, "to cover up the fact that he died a decade ago."

We have....CONSPIRACY!  :D

The best kind of conspiracy is EVIL actions in plain sight, like the stupid security theater hoisted upon us to protect from stupid as fuck terrorists who don't even see the opportunity to bomb long lines yet.

Oh no!  Now we need to setup a pre-screening line to protect the people in the main screening line!

Let bomb the pre-screening line instead! More people there!

this is a thought-crime.  you are now under thought arrest and will spend time in thoughtanamo bay.