Bitcoin Forum

Hey guys,

since nobody is replying in the Thread concerning my questions, I'm starting a new thread here.

Usually I'm checking coins b4 adding them to suprnova, at least i'm doing some preliminary checks (no virus, "bad" code, no code where the first block is like 500.000 coins while the coinsupply is only 50.000 .. etc). I tried to do that on Elite too, but the "usual" places where moved into other files, so I skipped it and since I saw other "big" pools on it I did not think anything bad as they're also supposed to do checks, don't they ? :) (no, i will not do that again, don't worry :))

However, the next morning I saw coinsupply tripled and on bittrex coins were dumped for about 20 BTC which made me look again and its weird..

I've set up an Block Explorer on a old machine as I could not find any online (its hell slow, please bear with me :)):
http://blocks.suprnova.cc:2750/

The source is here:
https://github.com/dimecoinco/elitecoin (thx to rikkejohn)

The first block pays out 20.000 to one address:
http://blocks.suprnova.cc:2750/block/00000ef54a645ff81b0d06b5fa10c2e0c4cbfd1af6448cc8747978fae96e6722

But this 20.000 payout is not reflected in the money supply, can someone point me to the place in the code where this is surpressed ?

When we take a closer look at some suspicious blocks, you see this address again:
http://blocks.suprnova.cc:2750/address/dMFkHRK1WRFVQLBvozBeKYAWfaAFQUsy1y

Especially Block 3448 and 4338 (which straaaange numbers :)) pay 20.000 AGAIN to the dev's address  .. The source is ALSO the dev's address so this is basically a double spent (or a double generation?):

http://blocks.suprnova.cc:2750/block/000000000025fe115ebd4ca762e1525c9889b3b9dbff29c6bb3c685bf953323a

(I dont know why 1000 coins go to the other address)

At block 4338 these coins get moved (probably to bittrex or so):
http://blocks.suprnova.cc:2750/address/dLvQf3686DgCPZBuHCixK9DBi8CMoeHCDe


Anyone got an idea how actually that worked ?


For that double generation/spend you usually also need a decent pool with large hashrate for this...


Thx !


PS: Oh and stop that shit and fud about bittrex please, you cannot blame the cardealer when you let your car repair by some strange workshop and then your brakes do not work - the only mistake they made - they did add it even though there was no block explorer available, which I hope they won't in the future..

I think this coin is dead. I personally have 5 ELITE mined from launch and I think dead coin may be dead.
I know people loose money on it, but nothing gonna happen, if community takes over then it will die very slowly, but no one gonna refund their loss.

Difficult for them to automatically check for a premine? It only takes about 10 seconds.

U think he will check he think you will check end up nobody check.

Not without Explorer

Yup..  I have learned that too

At least this is a good scam. Developer thought it thoroughly to avoid early detection. Not many scam put much effort into scamming. The laziest scam is IPO ICO. Don't even need to launch coin. People fall for it and this will not be the last coin. I hope we can see some real innovation in scamming. I always love a good scam.

Happens all the time, I told bittrex to check the source code before adding new coins and there reply including there henchmen was. ' it's not our job to check'

The also mentioned that the time involved would mean less coins listed.

Market is still open on bittrex and price is going up, and people are still happy trading it.

Makes no sense whatsoever.  :-\

quit supporting new shitcoins and the problem is solved.

this same type of obfuscation wasn't being done only on elitecoin, let's help find where the code was concealing the coins and then figure out which other shitcoins are shitcoins

Not going to happen. Unless....

nice job ocminer!

They can develop a universal explorer for all coins which support standart bitcoin rpc-methods.
I have simple one, but it's very raw and running from IDE. 250 lines of code, 2-3 hours.
Any developer is not difficult to create it.

If anybody have first version of the wallet i can check it. Maybe the developer applied for something non standard to hide premine.

No, I had no problem importing the Blockchain into a "normal" Abe explorer..

As told already, they made the mistake to not check the coin via explorer, hopefully they won't do it again, but i would not accuse them of scam all the time, there are also a ton of legit coins traded @ bittrex... so calm down... I've also lost some satoshis here as I was mining too.

Back to Topic:


Its VERY important to find the "bad" parts of the code so I can add them to my regular expressions when searching for bad code to stop adding such coins to (my) pools...  :)

Thanks for setting up the block explorer.
I did some analysis on my own. I don't think that 3448 involved double spending, it was just 1k transfer to another address, one can see 20k out and 19k in to the same premine address
In block 1 premine happened because of this:
https://github.com/dimecoinco/elitecoin/blob/394f19b04a49bf79368c29b7a3b617999f95acb5/src/main.cpp#L1567
i.e. for block 1 checking of coinbase reward was skipped so the dev could mine anything.  
Regarding moneysupply, the "dev" first defined the variable ly:
https://github.com/dimecoinco/elitecoin/blob/394f19b04a49bf79368c29b7a3b617999f95acb5/src/rpcwallet.cpp#L47
and then subtracted it from the actual money supply:
https://github.com/dimecoinco/elitecoin/blob/394f19b04a49bf79368c29b7a3b617999f95acb5/src/rpcwallet.cpp#L94

Wow thanks czveda ! You made my day, I totally overlooked that "ly" variable there.. I saw that +1 at the block height and already thought that no checks were performed for block 1 but I missed "ly" totally.

Thank you very much, that explains it pretty much !

Pretty interesting post, something to look out for when speculating on new altcoins.

np. I was looking at it last night and couldn't figure out initially, it is so easy to misread that "ly" variable. I am not sure that the dev would be caught if he named that variable differently, I doubt that anyone was checking moneysupply function and its output before the dump happened. 

dont do it! there is a strong possibility that the coin is being launched by a group of criminals who keeps doing the same crime.

I am usually checking moneysupply before adding if the dev says "NO PREMINE", but I think I'll add a Coinexplorer @ Suprnova to every coin I add a few minutes or hours after launch now too .. there seems to be no decent other way around such things...

Noob question how is it possible the explorer from the dev was showing another amount?

Did the coin actually have an explorer ? Wow it was actually SO good organized ? Woooow :-)

I did not notice that..

But the OP of a explorer can fake everything.. I can enter any value you want in my explorer there, I've got access to database behind it..

You'll have to trust a explorer from legit source i.e. only on a domain you know.. I think ssdpool provides explorers too.. I'll add a extra domain for that probably too

well guys I am'not coder but it were words of dev:
_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________
Also, about the POW phase, 2 weeks is not a long time. If everybody got used to coins with pow phases of 24~72 hours, it's not our problem. And those kind of coins die in 2 days.

It's been only 3 days, and anything could happen. But we're still here answering all questions, and we're active.
About the dump, NO ONE can control that! People will eventually dump a lot of coins for cheap. Now that the price is stable again, the only way to rise it is holding the coins or buying a big volume at a higher price.

We'll be also buying our own coins, since we started mining like everybody else, yesterday.
_______________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

dev begin to mining 24th and dump was 25th, at this point he sell a lot in dump , but he could to buy all again just now, elite could be very valuable in time
because devs dont delete posts, they only lock this, this a signal that coins will continue in a time give to be development by others or even same devs,so
nobody lost nothing only if holder sell,I think that for this reason devs are vanished in launching...........    they are very very smart guys......., anyway they
have control due to they buy again very very cheap......I understand game now..........

In other words my wallet in bittrex now have value like to shit if sell now,   but  what about in next years??? I mean I buy expensive shit  it drop
nearly to 1 sat, but tomorrow????

Keep it.. Maybe someday there will "Scam Busters" which are collecting coins from good scams ^^

 :D     all is possible at this point,  what about "Scammers biggest of Crypto"   many peoples only will delete this wallets but only a few will keep it

No consider your investment lost! Better make your own coin, name it Elite you will have more succes then waiting for this to recover! Because that just aint possible

OCMiner, I run a couple multipools - let me know if you'd like to share any of the VPS cost for hosting the block explorers or anything.   Or perhaps we could both host each of the coins explorers and link to one another's explorers to prove that the data is untampered with?

If I think about  clone a coin and launch it, it will be forked in a second.......... like to old scrypt........  :D :D :D

Anyway Elite keep in crypto I think, only need change slogan ¨20000 Elites + a little premine hidden of Dev¨    Devs need money to travel and make his things   ;D

quit supporting new coin launches by newbie devs.

its the easiest way to solve this problem.

Good idea, I'll get in touch with you soon !

+1

I'm sorta glad this happened. 

This will make things more strict on Bittrex.  If you lost that's just to bad, you all knew what you were getting into with all these shitcoins coming out daily.  This isn't Bittrex's fault, it's your own. 

Moving forward Bittrex shouldn't even acknowledge newbie dev's. 

Could someone post a TL;DR version of what happened with Elite? Was it a scam or did an attack take place against it that caused double spends?

there was a post a few weeks ago by a guy showing exactly how people are doing this, my guess the "dev" saw this post and tried it for himself and it worked apparently.

I'm glad this happend to. Bittrex shows true colors and it will be a short term exchange that has no vision for future, happy I found it out now!

I doubt this will effect its business.

Mintpal is dead and Poloniex isn't that popular.

Bter is just alright

When you buy a shitcoin you are taking a risk

Mintpal was big few months ago had little problem with hack and are left for dead. Bittrex is walking the same path diff route.

yep - this is this issue that's "Not a big issue" apparently by other peers in the crypto community !

hope you sort it.

Could any one tell  me how to read the code and what to look for? for hidden premine.. or maybe other usefull things!

Seems bittrex is not willing to put any time in this, then we have to do it ourselfs

Any help is welcome

Reading code for sense is a learned skill, directing people what to look for also requires them to have some familiarity with programming code semantics.

The best I can offer is a basic “smell test”. Find a related coin that's above suspicion and perform a simple visual comparison. If there are differences where usually there aren't, then it fails the smell test.

I posted a how-to:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=712197.msg8066207#msg8066207

The bitbucket repos we set up includes zenifications of elitecoin and its cloneparent, sumcoin. A meld comparison shows up the differences reasonably clearly. See if elitecoin passes the smell test for you.

HTH

Graham

Elitecoin was a concern; This is one of the worst example of what can be done.

Targeting fair mature coins that we are sure of the implementation, available with a non tricked block explorer, is the only way on the long run.

Sadly, exchanges, and big farms play a short term strategy where 'scam' is everywhere, and threaten the very existence of alternates.

Just checking the numbers, and I'm not surprised mining is almost non-existent.

The reward is 1 coin a block. From 9409 mined blocks, there should be 9409 elite.

Total money supply is actually 110,644.83045014

That averages 11.7593793176745669 coins a block.

In other words, for every 1 coin mined, the elitecoindevs get an unofficial 10.7593793176745669 coins

It makes me laugh that Bittrex describe it as a "possible premine"

This is the biggest premine ever.

Anyone good at mathematics?

I make it at something like a 1000% premine.
.

they do.

so we have to quit playing their game.

learn how to perform fundamental analysis on 'real altcoins' that have a track record of clean updates and speculate on those.

new alts are mostly made by scammers.