Bitcoin Forum

Due to the number of recent scam coins, the industry's trust problem has gotten much worse.

A possible solution IMHO is a Self Regulatory Organization (SRO), like stock exchanges have. People have faith in the stocks because they are on the exchanges. Exchanges have customers because they do their homework (due diligence) before listing a stock. They are not perfect, but the system works.

For an exchange, it is all about trading volume, and that means having the hottest coins. But paid listings are worrisome.
It begs the question, Who are an exchanges primary customers? Devs with coins to list? Or, the people that trust you with their coins (Read: Their Money)

The Mt.Gox collapse was the wake up call. Hey, this is real money! Then events like the Poloniex theft, and others exposed the need for exchanges to secure and validate themselves. Now, say what you want, but Poloniex recovered and made their customers whole. That alone deserves a measure of respect. The result of these terrible events is a growing faith in the surviving exchanges.

Now we have a torrent of new scam coins, which will drive the next evolutionary phase of development: Due Diligence. If exchanges continue allowing scam coins onto their exchanges, where funds are virtually stolen from exchange customers, exchanges will soon find their customers have no funds with which to trade.

To protect traders, speculators, and investors, a measure of due diligence, call it regulation if you like, must evolve. Without some sort of regulation, the scammers will run their scams until there are no funds left to be scammed. And that will be very, very bad for the exchanges.

You see, despite the desire for anonymity, transaction size and volume will likely remain in the 2 digit $ range forever. Large transaction and or investments require a system where where Someone or some entity can be held accountable.

A well defined 'industry standard' and or set of criteria needs to be (read: will eventually be) developed. (Yes, that would be considered a regulation.) Measuring the shouting on social media does not qualify. Something, anything that will deter evildoers must be put in place. For instance, if a dev can only be reached via IM, Chat, IRC, Forum post, or Email.... that is probably not a good thing.

The alt coin future is straight forward. Self Regulation of coin developers (meaning regulation) driven by the Exchanges is the best option. Government intervention probably won't work and no one wants it. If nothing is done, it will be a slow death due by a thousands of ever smaller scam coins yet to be released. Exchanges in it for the long haul have no choice. Exchanges must immediately begin scrutinizing the coins currently listed and begin developing new regulations for any coin they consider listing. If they don't, their customers lose money and the alt industry suffers. Bottom line, Integrity and Intent count. Oh yea, and the exchanges with the greatest integrity are the ones most likely to survive. 

You can make it happen,
You can watch it happen,  or
You can sit there and wonder WTF Just happened....  (Capt. Phil Harris)

I can't wait to see the response this.... or maybe it is already being discussed elsewhere

Good day!

good question, not sure if it is possible, but CRD is working on a way to reduce scam https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=634403.0

We think that regulation is already coming about, but it is through the community and investors. People are starting to buy into scams less, and people are starting to come up with changes already. Such as Coinssources Dev trust program, and Bittrex's bounty on finding scams in coin code. This is what crypto needs because this is how it is meant to be.

We already have regulation.  Here it is....

Operation Shitcoin Cleanout and Clean Up Has Begun- Join the Revolution- Updated (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=522235.0)

But I think they need more support.

The system does not work. The system is shit and completely fucked. The system is currently unsustainable and requires thousands, millions, probably even billions of people to suffer so it can function the way that it currently does. The system will lead to the collapse of modern society if people don't wake up and see how they are being brainwashed and used by the extremely wealthy.


Here we are in agreement. I say "both." The exchange values both crapcoin dev and customer alike. However, in the case of Bittrex, they clearly have no desire to look after their customer's wellbeing as evidenced by the neverending flurry of shitcoins they are constantly promoting.


I wish I could agree with you on this but there seems to be an as-of-yet unspent cache of noobs who keep fueling the crapcoin craze. Perhaps this will die out before too long as word gets out that 95% of altcoins are actually worthless.


Did you know that Bernie Madoff used to be the chair of NASDAQ? Regulation won't help if the regulators only care about themselves, which is the attitude of pretty much everybody who deals with money directly for a living.


Bravo. Well said and bumped.

They should have regulations against one of the largest TROLL on the forum.
 

I guess you don't mind it if I post the private messages you've been sending me then and then all can see what a troll you are.

You just parroted back to me what I said to you, in 12 different threads!


You physically threatened me over a coin that didn't even budge in price, despite your assertions that I was "costing you money." Anything someone says after you threaten them, you had it coming.

These people don't care about our squabble btw, stop spreading your psychological affliction on the innocents.

that guys trust program is bullshit he is a lying weazle fucking scumbag.
and

that..

my crypto-friends is the problem you guys are all dumb period.
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to fucking dumb.

me and 10 guys laughed our ass off at the NOOB "trust rating"  guy waaay back for a super ultra dumb stunt and he made it 100x worse from there
only to wait a while until someone forgot to worm himself into a position of trust.. for financial gain (to push HIS shit clone coins)
A fucking stupid noob caught red handed pulling scams and then lying and fighting to cover it up should not be involved in anything
sure as hell not a trust system.. he has no cred and no skills at handling people and knows fuck all about this scene because he got here in January 2014
and that is why i say your all dumb out there.. you eat up any noob's shit that pops up saying anything with out question.

would take me 5 minutes to cook up a scheme make an account and get you all on your knees blowing me lol
guuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulible

all this scene contains is corrupt people and the idiots they feed on.
how do you fix stupid ? self-regulation ? good luck with that LOL

@OP
Poloniex didn't do fuck all.. they exposed one scam coin for example then backed down like cowards and mimic what teh others say..
the usually collection of excuses..
"user demand"
and
"the market will decide"
they have no spine and if you think they do you have been fooled.
all the top exchanges are a corrupt load of bullshit pulling stunt after stunt.. they just rarely get caught and exposed publicly bad enough.

and yeah Mark from GOX made sure all pro investors sold out and left for good !
so no there won't be a second wave like NOV 2013 as i have said all along and as i was argued with all along..
and regulation is not coming.. it's too much of a mess for regulators to deal with.. if anything they will try and ban it all NOT regulate Altcoins.
the only saving grace is Bitcoin regulation implemented in the works right now that might spill over into our scene.
but how far reaching and meaningful will that be ? i think almost nill.

i have called for regulation all along and the Free Market chanting scammers rallied their war cry at me.. and now they ware waking up.. far too late.

the scene is dead and the morons ruined it.
and that included greedy idiot pool op's fighting over each other to add shit coin #876 first
or exchanges to play out their agendas like adding every shit coin asap (Bittrex / Poloniex)
or fringe players who try and exploit random angles (BTER / CoinEX / Coins-E / mcxNOW)
or guys that sit back and play dumb trying to pretend to be better than others while they themselves make the shit coins (Cryptsy / Bittrex + Polo etc etc)
You think those guys want regulation ? SELF regulation ? sure they would LOVE "self" regulation LOL
govt regulation would be jail time though lol

hey get over it and watch the toilet flush ..there is no stopping it !
far too little far too late.. nothing is going to change.
greedy fuckers have made their choice looooooooong ago.

this topic will be on page 80 in a day or two.. your dreaming lol

Unfortunately, I think you may be correct.

I would like to believe the people behind the exchanges are taking a long-term view. (long-term meaning decades)
If the focus remains narrow and short-term, you will be correct.

IF, and this is a big if, Two of the main exchanges, Cryptsy, Bittrex, Mintpal, and Polo, were to merge,  (best match IMHO is Cryptsy and Bittrex) and  then implemented a set of criteria for coin listing, that requires a measurable and ongoing commitment from the coin team, to ensure legitimacy and commitment, the industry could be saved. It is going to take a tremendous amount of work.

But hey, it always take a tremendous amount of work to make something lasting from nothing.

Any more thoughts?
Anyone like the idea of a Bittrex / Cryptsy merger ?

I'm more just a bystander now so I don't care. The colluding devs and exchanges are the ones who should care, but they don't because easy money has obscured their long-term vision. So, I won't feel bad for them when they all start going to jail for securities fraud because they didn't have the political backing that real financial exchanges have. Except by fleeing the country their roundup and prosecution seems kind of like an unavoidable certainty by now.

Sure, legitimate regulation that leaves a trail for auditing would be a vast improvement, and the improvement that this scene needs. Unfortunately, it clashes with all of the "beliefs" that exist in this realm; and frankly, clashes with a lot of the "innovation" too.

Anything short of that, like "self-regulation," would just be a crock of crap hiding behind a thin veil of marketable "improvement."

Really though, it's whatever, this scene cannibalized itself, and all of the players deserve what they get (such as dwindling trading volumes and so forth).

no.. i AM regulation  ;D

the fact is that the whole scene needs regulation and transparency.
Those who try to argue, that regulation is against the "religion of cryptos" are just trying to protect their intrest (so they can continue scamming and play in the inner circle).

If someone at these times (after gox and many other horrible things) tries to sell "freedom" in the form of cryptos, hes bullshiting hard.

Yea we need the regulators as they are doing such a great job at not being brought and paid for and facilitating scams themselves.
 

It would still be lot easyer to bring the known regulatory branch or organ into justice when their scam would be noticed.
There is no way around this thing, internal or external regulation must be applied, since it benefits the whole community.

this. Bitcoin is freedom through regulatory consensus algorithm, but this doesn't mean it shouldn't be externally regulated to protect consumers.

decentralized exchanges are the answer.

If we don'tself-regulate, the state will have the perfect excuse to go ahead and make nonsense regulamentations, like they do with the financial world, but worse because we will have the informatic ignorance added to scenario.

So it must be done.

Both good points.

Garbage thread.

First you want crypto regulation, then you'll want to do some regulation on free speech, guns, religion, wealth redistribution, then affirmative action, and the circle is complete.

The trouble is, people like that have some sort of helicopter-parent image of an "ideal regulator" in their imagination.

Regulation is a fine line.  We are people know what we WANT as regulation but the reality is ALWAYS far from what we intended.  we have an opportunity here to control the regulation rather than just toss it to a government body and hope that the pull of the handle will return 3 sevens.   Come on internet, use a brain cell or 2 and implement GOOD regulation.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_akLbxNKanGc/TEfm97w7NyI/AAAAAAAADJA/HeZWmevuJLQ/s1600/Regulation+sweet+spot.jpg

SelfRegulation is in the bottom line of the price defence of the massive coins selfdestruction.

0

Nothing.

Zero.

Null.

First rule of crypto's is NO FUCKING REGULATION!

Seriously, are you people high? Why are you even here then? Go play by the white devil's rules of Wall st if you want fucking rules.

Look, I know people get ripped off and scammers scam, but instead of defeating the whole purpose of crypto's, why not get off your fucking asses and educate the n00bs. Call the cunts out for their bullshit. Scream it so loud that every member of the cryptocoin scene will never again doubt. If those of us 'in the know' did our fair share, the shit tornado of coins would come to a halt.

Only you can prevent scamcoins

Sadly, regulation will rule in the end for two reasons.

1. Its money. Government will have control so they can get their piece of the pie.
2. Too many people screaming "I got scammed or robbed; government and law enforcement has to do something".

Forums like this and exchanges have the power to curb some of the menace and put off the inevitable.

that's ridiculous!

that is pretty fucking dumb !

when some of the scams are convincing enough and many are masked ponzi schemes which break existing laws then WTF ?
that is some piss poor fucked up broken logic you got going there..
that is like telling some chick who got raped.. well don't dress slutty and watch out for rapists.

and the wall street rules are evil ?
no actually they put Martha Stewart in an orange jump suit for a reason !
and they put Berni Madoff in jail for a reason too also
..funny enough his associates tried to play dumb but the court threw the book at them hardcore !
see parallels ?

When Mark closed his doors with 500,000 Bitcoins that belonged to his customers worth close to $1,000 usd each
that was time to wake up and realize we need *some regulation.
having none and having that incident play out showed the whole world that Bitcoin is too risky and a LOT of people pulled out..

your whole Free (for all) Market gibberish is stupid nonsense to the highest degree.

edit:
oh and by the way i called out many of you hypocrite idiots when GOX closed it's doors
because most of you out there that had coins on GOX were Free Market Mantra chanters..
but guess who was first in line to "call the cops" etc when GOX closed their doors ?
HYPOCRITES LOL
STFU .
You have no right to whine about losing coins on Gox if your gonna chant the free market mantra..
I'm glad he did it because i warned people for a year straight and they mouthed me off.. dumb cheerleaders
then they got burned like morons even though they were warned AND if there was regulation it wouldn't have happened in the first place !

as long as you guys chant Free Market.. i will laugh and appluad exchanges ripping people off !

wow you are too much LOL

"the menace" ?

uhhhhh buddy.. "the menace" is the fucking scammers.. NOT the guys who want rules !

jeezuz you people fucking insane !

Some of them, sadly in my humble relative-newbie opinion, are high on ignorance. I'm talking about the people who think that "self-regulation" is the answer to forestall government regulation.

Sadly, the history of the regulation of the stock exchanges all-but tells us the opposite. The doughty self-regulators back in the free-market days had no idea that they were just doing the spadework for the SEC et. al. The government simply nestled the new regulatory agency on top of those self-regulatory organizations.

Note the contrast between the history of the stock exchanges and the still-unregulated OTC derivative market. The governments haven't jumped in with regulation because - to be quite frank about this - they can't.

They can't because the entire OTC derivative market is such a patchwork quilt of custom-made "bespoke" deals, it would be durned difficult to take the first step towards regulation: namely, a clearing house (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearing_house_(finance)) for those derivatives. Consequently, any would-be peepul's champeen with real regulatory experience would look at the OTC-derivative patchwork and conclude that it's currently too much of a disorganized mess to merely organize let alone regulate.

Sorry to disappoint anyone here who loves a good conspiracy theory :) , but this crazy-quilt character was entirely accidental. Fact is, OTC derivatives are deals made between teams of fully professional finance professionals and are more-or-less designed to be held to maturity. Because of that intention, they get very complicated because there's no intuitive need to make them easy to sell. As a result, actually selling one of them - or buying one of them in the secondary market - is about as complicated as selling or buying a small business. With the difference that the hourly rates of the lawyers on each side of the negotiation is ~10 times higher than the ones in the small-business-transfer field. ;)

Now, I know for a fact that self-regulation (contrary to intention, probably) just paved the way for government regulation in the asset markets. I'm not completely certain that this was the case for banks, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't. A thumbnail description of the Federal Reserve would be: an institution that was set up to take the responsibility of assuring an orderly market off the shoulders of J.P. Morgan the man.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1907#J.P._Morgan

[True Facts: #1. Rep. Carter Glass, the politician who introduced the Federal Reserve Act in the House, had been one of J.P. Morgan's examiners when J.P was straightening out the Panic of 1907. 2. At the time the Federal Reserve Act was passed, J.P was near death.]

Although I haven't studied the banking sector closely enough to give a certain answer, the thumbnail history of the birth of the Fed does show that self-regulation did indeed pave the way for government regulation in the banking sector.

----------

You show anger, sir, and I show sorrow. Admittedly, I'm fatalistic; I'm already inured to cryptos being regulated by the government - perhaps with an entirely new regulatory agency that the Washington Insiders will present to us as a you-now-hit-the-big-time special gift.  ::)

Yep, I'm inured to it. But I remember very well what Robert A. Heinlein wrote so long ago: there's a world of difference between rolling with the punch and stooling for the screws.

Just to be extra clear for spoetnik; "menace" means the scams and robbers. For the rest of us "menace" could be both.  Sorry if I came across as "fucking insane" .... lol.

First remember rule number 1, It is Money.
One of the major arguments against Bitcoin etc. is that no one will ever commit significant funds to it because there are no rules. Throw in the wild west Altcoin world....
How big is the "average" trader of any coin on any exchange? We know there are 'whales' out there, and the manipulators....
In the real world of money, bitcoin ($8 Billion mkt cap) is tiny.

There are Good regulations. There are a lot of bad ones to.

Ultimately this thread is about trust, as in regulations that would increase levels of trust.  Anyone have an idea on how to increase the level of trust in the land of cryptos?
Let the community decide? (a sort of SRO type action)  also very slow
Let the Exchanges decide? (another SRO type option)  could move quickly if someone took a leading role
Do nothing? (All of crypto dies of a thousand cuts)

Ultimately coin value is based on Supply and Demand. But understand how important the concept of trust is on both sides.
If you trust you will be able to sell/exchange/trade it for something of relatively equal value in the future, a coin is sustainable. If not... RIP I believe is the current catch phrase. (Note: Trust in the blockchain IMHO has little value)