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I want to make a thread about the misconceptions of Israeli culture because I have seen, both online and offline, people who do not truly understand Israeli culture.

1.) In Israel, there are around 7.8 million people. About one hundred thousand to two hundred thousand are Arab Christians. 1.6 million are Arab Muslim. 6 million are Jewish. Out of those 6 million Jewish people, 3 million are European, 2.9 million are North African and Southwest Asia, and about one hundred thousand are Ethiopian. So about half of the Jewish people in Israel are from outside of Europe and the other half of the Jewish people in Israel are from Europe. Do not let anyone tell you that 90%+ of Israeli Jews are European. That is simply not true.

2.) Hebrew, a Semitic language similar to Arabic, is spoken in Israel. They do not speak Yiddish in Israel.

3.) Israel has Hebrew rap and Hebrew heavy metal music. Not everyone in Israel is super religious and shuns the media and pop culture. For the most part, except observing Shabbat (the Sabbath), Israel is a fairly secular country.

4.) The former President of Israel, Moshe Katzav, is of Iranian descent. The leader of the Kadima Party in Israel, Shaul Mofaz, is also of Iranian descent. There are many Jewish people of Sephardic/Mizrahi (Arab, Berber, and Iranian Jewish) descent in positions of political power in Israel.

5.) People say Israel expelled 700,000 Palestinians in 1948. Well, between 1948 and 1967, 1 million Jews from North Africa and Southwest Asia were expelled by Arab countries and fled to Israel.

6.) Not a misconception. But a fact. Miss Israel 2013 is of Ethiopian descent.

7.) Another fact. An Israeli company invented the first USB drives.

You forgot to discuss Zionism.

Which aspects of it do you want me to discuss? It is a pretty broad term and broad philosophy that encompasses many different viewpoints and opinions.

no point. Zionism never really was all that influential and is even less so now.

One huge and growing problem for Israel is the Ultra Orthodox. They refuse to serve in the army or anywhere else and demand all sorts of concessions.

One big defect of a single parliamentary system is that the way Israel's constitution is set up you get small parties with huge influence. Which means all too often a tiny minority gets way too much political power. Like the gays in the US; political clout way beyond what they should have by numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism)

I will discuss what I think Zionism is. I think Zionism exists for religious Jews who want a G-d-fearing Homeland to go to. Zionism exists for secular Jews as a place of sanctuary.

Adolf Hitler, as well as modern day Neo-Nazi groups, usually decide to take on a negative view of a person if they are born to a Jewish mother. Hitler did not care whether one was secular or religious. If they were Jewish, then Hitler did not like them. That is why Israel exists. To give both secular and religious Jews a place to go to when they feel like the world, or a particular part of the world, is bearing down on them with threats of antisemitism. That is why many Jews who are secular still support Israel. Because many anti-Semites seem to dislike Jews because they were born Jewish and not whether or not they practice the religion.

Infected Mushroom too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6hL6fkJ1_k
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infected_Mushroom

And to add a few more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-C3UYq-UxA

Might I also add in 1923, hundreds of thousands of Greeks were forced to pack their bags and leave Anatolia for Greece along with hundreds of thousands of Turks forced to leave Greece in a population swap. Why did this happen? Because politics and circumstances changed after WW1 and no longer could these two people live together. However neither side bitches about it today because it worked.

This is how the Israel/Palestinian situation SHOULD be looked at, a population swap due to war; cultural, religious and political differences necessitates these two people can no longer co-exist hence the existence of Israel and the PLO territories. Is it terrible many Palestinians were forced out of their homes? Sure, but it was also terrible Jews were forced to flee the Arab world too. Instead of looking back into the past and demanding right of return Palestinians should learn to live in their "new" homes in Gaza and West Bank as Arab Jews had to learn to live in Israel. At least for Palestinians they were forced to move 5-10 miles down the road instead of across the whole middle east.

How many of those non-Jew citizens are treated as second/third class ?wot's with the hats and pony tails ? why do jews cut large chunks off the ends of their dicks ?

There are many Israeli Arabs in the Israeli Knesset as well as in many other fields like the movie industry. For example, Israeli actor Mohammad Bakri (Israeli Arab Muslim) starred alongside Antonio Banderas in the movie The Body. Bakri also stars in the television show Tyrant, where Ashraf Barhom (Israeli Arab Christian) plays the main character Jamal. You may remember Ashraf Barhom as the senior Saudi agent in the movie The Kingdom with Jamie Foxx and Jennifer Garner.

...and G-d commands Jewish people to cover their heads, wear beards, and have those pony tails. Just as Muslims have beards and cover their heads as well. It is modesty. To cover one's head to show that they are humble before G-d.

Does everyone pay retail? Why do rabbis suck baby dicks?

You have a nice list, but the above is inaccurate and carries with it problems besides. It is absolutely true that many Jews were expelled by Arab countries or fled pogroms / potential violence, but to simply attribute every immigrant that came to Israel from Arab lands as one that was forcibly expelled is completely inaccurate.

As far as I know, everyone pays full price plus tax. Unless you are a foreigner. Then you get the Value Added Tax refunded eventually.
Considering they pioneered a technique that lowers the risk of penal cancer before anyone knew what cancer was, I'd say this criticism is pretty fucking pedantic.

If there weren't 1 million Jews living in Arab countries in that time period, then how did Israel's Sephardic/Mizrahi Jewish population go up from 1 million to 3 million by 2014? They had to first immigrate to Israel and then have a population boom.

And when it comes to issues of human rights, if Hamas puts down its weapons, then there will be peace. If Israel puts down its weapons, then there will be no Israel.

Furthermore, I've never been comfortable with the two incidents being linked like this. Doing so seems to carry some intention of downplaying what was and remains a highly immoral and criminal acts (the expulsion of Palestinians from Israel). The fact that other criminal acts were engaged in elsewhere in no way diminishes the legal responsibilities that Israel carries with regards to the Right of Return for Palestinians. Nor does it in any way deminish the gross abuse of human rights carried out by early Israeli administrations and maintained by all future Israeli administrations since.

Just throwing that out there. Side note: there weren't even 1 million Jews living in Arab countries in total during that time period.

Serious. In the desert, an un-cut slong gets packed with sand. dirt, organic materials and bodily fluids which increase the potential for penal cancer if not cleaned regularly.

How? Because you're counting Jews that came from non-Arab states like Turkey and Iran in your numbers. You're thinking of Jews that came from Muslim states, not just Arab ones.

Is there the chance of a group of people becoming too religious ?

Say you have to get up in the morning and do a day's work and get some rest after, what if getting too religious radically diminishes any chance of putting a good few hours of work in each day, or putting the feet up ?

Say you were brought up Hascidic and yer father said it is not enough to be Hascidic to properly worship god, therefore it could be an insult to god to just go about doing the general hascidic stuff.

1.) That's a really old and very poor propaganda line, and has never been true.

2.) That has nothing to do with the comparison that you tried to make. Hamas has nothing to do with the Right of Return or the expulsion of Palestinians in the 40's or the 60's.

So instead everyone has to be brought up ultra Hascidic and become a Hascidic Rabbi full time and still put the usual 8 hours a day in proper productive work down the auto factory or carpentry shop and the like, whilst nodding and bowing to god at all times.

New levels of ultra hascidic rabbinical upbringing for ultimate levels of godly devotion might involve wearing of the Tefillin at all times, not just part time like for Mitzvahs, but those leather boxes should be strapped to the forehead, but also to both forearms, and the heart, the throat and both ankles at all times, and nodding and bowing to god at all times.

So 200,000 came from Turkey and Iran, and a further 800,000 came from the Maghreb and the Arab World.If Hamas puts down its weapons, there will indeed be peace.

Daily prayers should start with a cold baptism at 3am, then another cold dip and prayer at 5am and 7am before starting work at 9am. Prayer breaks and baptisms also to be conducted every 2 hours during work without productivity being affected, then after work another 8 hours of full Rabbi work, wearing the tefillin at all times, and nodding and bowing to god at all times.

Sleep should be the highest insult to god and limited to 2 hours, even then avoided if possible. Anyone nodding off for four hours or more should thrust themselves into an icy cold baptism pool and lash themselves with a whip until they poop a little, also wearing the tefillin at all times, and nodding and bowing to god at all times.

That would be the proper way to fully submit to god, or live in a hole in a cave in a mountain naked for a few decades.


(Not withstanding it should be understood Kabbalah metaphysical theology and exegesis, offers an esoteric, imaginative, spiritual alternative to mainstream Rabbinic Judaism and Jewish philosophy. Its greatest expression is in Scriptural commentary, the Zohar. Medieval Kabbalah taught new doctrines of the ten sefirot (emanations that reveal and mediate the unknowable Divine essence), the identification of the last sefirah with the earlier Rabbinic notion of the shechina (Divine presence) as a feminine aspect of God, and the harmonious shefa (substaining flow of Divine creation through the Heavenly realms until this world) that is dependent on each person's righteousness.

So, study of the "revealed" or "inner" dimensions of Judaism can inspire greater faith and emotional fervour, as well as knowledge of Rabbinic thought. In Chabad, Schneur Zalman emphasised the mind as the route to internalizing the emotions of the heart more fully. The systematic analysis of Hasidic philosophy in Chabad can integrate and synthesize "revealed" Jewish thought with the mystical.)

That sort of stuff as well.

Funny answer but far from being the norm among desert cultures. Pre-Islamic Iranic peoples didn't engage in the practice nor did the Mongols, the Meso-Americans or Atacama people who lived in the deserts.  Ancient Indian texts never mentioned it so we can probably rule out the deserts in Pakistan.   

Is there a particular reason why you can't type "God"? If you draw a picture of god, or look god straight in the face or write god in full you might turn to stone ?

hascidic women are excluded from all that sort of stuff, and as long as they sit in the backs of cars, buses and planes and do the daily cooking, they don't have to get too involved, also cover their head and boobs during acts of procreation.

In regards to FX2000's question, if you write G-d on a piece of paper and throw that paper away, then you have desecrated G-d's name. That is why G-d is not written unless it is written on a Torah scroll. This is because Torah scrolls are not thrown away, whereas other pieces of paper may be thrown away.

In regards to Prometheus's question, G-d doesn't have a face. G-d is a spirit entity. G-d is formless and genderless.

You mean there will be permanent occupation. The Netanyahu administration has shown no interest in working with the West Bank leadership despite the fact that they aren't violent. The same was true of Olmert. The notion that if Hamas put down its guns (something I would support) that everything would be fine and dandy rather ignores 90% of the abuses that the Israeli government commits on a daily basis.

And I have to add a misconception of Jewish culture to this thread, in addition to misconceptions of Israeli culture. Jewish people study the entire Tanakh, which is the complete Hebrew Old Testament. It is a common misconception that Jews only read the Torah (the first five books of Moses).

And in regards to what Prometheus brought up as being too religious, the Haredim in Israel are considered too religious by many. They literally eat, sleep, and read the Tanakh and the Talmud. They do not work and do not even use electricity.

What if you beat the Haredim and went one step further, what could they do to beat this ...


1. You grow cotton regularly blessed by 10 of the highest bishops, irrigated by holy water.

2. You spin the cotton in the most sacred holy temple at midnight starting on Xmas eve.

3. Then you write the bible in microprint on to a continuous cotton thread from Xmas to Easter.

4. With the most holy thread you knit a pair of super holy under pants and vest in a holy temple.

5. The undergarments are then baptised by 20 of the highest bishops plus the pope.

6. You then get the world's best designer to design the ultimate bishop or pope outfit.

7. Starting again for each garment you go through 1 to 6 to make the clothes super holy.

8. After many years you finally you get dressed up in the full holy ensemble.

9. You then read the bible from cover to cover over and over and learn it off by heart.

10. Once memorised, you set a new world record for reciting the whole bible word for word.

11. Then with the world record you recite it over and over 22 hours a day.

12. You then go up to a cave in a mountain and dig a hole in the cave.

13. You spend the next few decades sat in the hole in the cave reciting the whole bible as many times as possible.

The Jewish religion believes in both faith and good works. G-d commands one do to faith and good works. You have to physically repair the world in addition to studying the Tanakh, otherwise you are not doing what G-d commands. So it would be futile to just sit and pray all day, when you are not working hard to make the world a better place as well.

I propose then a suitable compromise of praying / studying / working ...

Daily prayers should start with a cold dip at 5am, then another cold dip and prayer at 6am before starting work at 7am.

Prayer breaks and baptisms to be conducted every 2 hours during work, then after work at 5pm - another 8 hours working as a Rabbi till 1am.

Wearing the tefillin at all times, on your head, throat, heart, arms and legs and nodding and bowing to god at all times, all day long.

Also listening to the bible on your iPod as much as possible.

The Netanyahu government won't give up the West Bank until they are sure that a future Palestinian State will be demilitarized. They do not want another launching pad for rockets on their eastern border.

I myself am Jewish, but am secular. I identify with my secular Jewish identity but I do not practice the religion. So praying does not factor in to my work day.

The Netanyahu government doesn't believe in a two state solution under any circumstances (He's publicly said as much and it is written into the charter of the party that he heads). Trying to suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

A lot of Israeli governments say that.

It was the Likud (Netanyahu's same "right-wing party") that gave up the entire Sinai Peninsula. I have now shown you proof that even "right-wingers" make concessions. And Gaza's gone too. Now show me proof that Israel will do something differently.

The proof is a close to half century old occupation. Israel couldn't even live up to a single one of its peace plan promises under the Road Map, even when Palestinians under the PA lived up to their side of the bargain. Let me know when that changes.

1967-2014: Israel gave up over 75% of its land mass. It's only a matter of time before Israel withdraws from the West Bank. It will happen. History has shown us as much.

I am just trying to keep things in perspective and balanced. I think that there are way too many misconceptions of Israel. And I do think that peace is the best approach, and I do believe in a Two-State Solution.

I remember back in the day when I was in the U.S. Army Reserve and a full-time university student, I did a report for a 4000-level Political Science class on Israeli and Palestinian Hip Hop and Heavy Metal. True story.

To start with the Palestinian song, here is Dam-Mali Huriye (i dont have freedom). It is a song about not having freedom in one's native birth land. Dam is a Palestinian rap group.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRiOe9HWruk

Where has history shown as much? And saying that Israel gave up 75% of its land mass is disingenuous. The Sinai never belonged to Israel / it never had any right to it. Likewise, the entire reason why the Gaza disengagement happened was (as was publicly admited) to kill the overall peace process, specifically as it related to the West Bank. So Israel get's no cudos for that.

To conclude with the Israeli song, here is Shir Shel Rega Ehad (Song for one moment) by TACT. A notable member of TACT is Subliminal. It is a song about an Israeli Soldier who goes on a bus and pens his own death letter to his girlfriend. He tragically died in a suicide bombing that night on the bus and left the letter to his girlfriend. The song is about him, Yaakov Paz. That is the Soldier's name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbHlg_-Llh0

They only took the Sinai because there were Egyptian troops massed on the border with Israel. Israel had to attack, or else the Egyptians would strike first.

But I gave you historical examples. Israeli withdrawals have happened. And they will happen again.

And Dylith, I feel the pain of both sides. The only people in this entire conflict I can't stand are Hamas and Hezbollah. I do not like terrorist organizations, but I have nothing against the Palestinian People.

Israeli generals don't all agree with your interpretation. And that is beside the point. It changes nothing as to the validity of your claims that the Sinai belonged to Israel.
You gave "examples" while completely ignoring their context. The West Bank isn't the same as the Sinai.

It's interesting how in American politics I would be considered a conservative for supporting Israel, but in Israeli politics I would be considered a liberal because I support a Two-State Solution. How interesting and strange.

Cliffs: In America if you support a Two-State solution, you are a conservative. In Israel, you are a liberal.

And I am open to both sides of the debate. That is why I posted Palestinian and Israeli hip hop videos in the previous page. I actually did a college research paper on Palestinian and Israeli hip hop.

I support Israel too, which is why I don't support leaders like Netanyahu or administrations hamstrung in the peace process by conservative kingmaker parties (aka all recent Israeli administrations).

I seem to remember you voicing support for the election of Avigdor Lieberman as Prime Minister based on his Russian heritage. He certainly isn't a liberal candidate.

True. Because he speaks Russian and I can relate to him.

Now I really want to see either an Ethiopian Prime Minister or a North African/Southwest Asian Prime Minister. It would be nice to see Shaul Mofaz (Iranian descent) be the Prime Minister.

I just like to see more minority representation in the Israeli Prime Ministership. Israel has only had Ashkenazi Prime Ministers. They never had a Sephardic one. I wish that would change.

There are misconceptions of israeli culture that people are super religious or super praying but if you are from israel or live in israel this is not the case.

There are even misconceptions of jewish culture that people are super religious or super praying but if you are jewish this is also not the case.

Culture is basically "cult"ish, it tries to ensnare you in its cult ways, but even if you were born of hasidic parents and wore dreadlocks all your younger years, you could still end up to be a none cult like citizen, you could even become a punk porn star.

Zohar must be from the 60's or something ? Patent white leather shoes, disco suit and bling, orchestra and drunken dancers flouncing about. Even with his extensive practice and polished performance from hundreds of takes, he sounds like a strangled cat.

He is not a patch on Paul Potts, the mobile phone salesman who was bullied as a nipper and not too confident, but he put on this performance the first time he got on stage ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1k08yxu57NA

Proof of 5? Most Jews that lived in north-africa lived in Morocco and they choose to immigrate and they weren't expelled as you claim as I have friends from such families.

As for 1 during the creation of Israel, 90%+ Of jews were from EU origins. as for the rest I don't know really, but it does make sense

but I have a question, is it true that Jew people has more advantages and rights as non jews in Israel, are Muslim Israelies treated the same as any other white Jew Israelies ?

I heard somewhere that Jews are the cause of the world's wars. I think Mel Gibson said it. Is he right? Seems like a rather adolescent attempt at tongue-in-cheek.

There are thousands of forces at work within each country. And there are many factors that lead to war. It is not just Jews who sit around and plan for various wars. And like I just said, many different groups/forces plan wars, and many factors lead up to those wars.

You know, speaking of Isreal, this propaganda piece really struck me as making a good point, but was hugely unpopular in the UK. I get that it can be uncomfortable, but it's meant to be. Regardless of what city it depicts, it makes a good point. As someone living in Houston, if Mexico was to fire missiles at us (especially if it went on for years), an invasion would seem entirely valid.

I get that the war is horrible, but I have trouble blaming Isreal myself. Am I missing something here?

http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/ad_141157776-e1405977054226.jpg

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2014/0716/rocket-fire-rates-from-gaza/18730144-1-eng-US/Rocket-fire-rates-from-Gaza_full_600.png
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/Backchannels/2014/0716/Gaza-militants-rockets-Fewer-less-accurate-than-last-Hamas-Israel-conflict-video (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/Backchannels/2014/0716/Gaza-militants-rockets-Fewer-less-accurate-than-last-Hamas-Israel-conflict-video)

An interesting article, questioning the effectiveness of Israel's "Iron Dome" missle defense shield and giving account of Hamas's rocket accuracy. I didnt double check the validity of this source. By the looks of this statistic it seems as if Hams's rocket firings achieve not much more then scaring the Israeli population. From wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel#2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel#2014)

This is not to neglect the death toll of 24 innocent Israeli lives, that have been wiped out in this way, but to put in perspective what the Israeli reaction looks like and how many civilian casualties the IDF's massive bombardement and targeted air strikes of urban neighborhoods has caused among the Palestinians, the bully in this case seems to be the Israeli government.

Comparing only the loss of lives on both sides, the picture looks very one sided indeed:
Israel: 64 soldiers killed, 2 civillians / Gaza: 1500-2000 killed (mostly civilians; even according to IDF sources at least half of them civilians)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Israel%E2%80%93Gaza_conflict)



P.S.: I came across a collection of both pro Israel and pro Hamas propaganda posters, see for yourselves:
https://i.imgur.com/WICQoyg.png
https://imgur.com/r/PropagandaPosters/WICQoyg

Yup you are missing a lot, and you've exactly feel to what this propaganda message makes want to believe, without mentioning the fact that Israel is colonizing Palestine, prosecuting, kicking out and murdering people, stealing land and resources ...ect ect and been doing this for half a century (officially that is recognition by the UN as occupied land)

@Spelulatius, the big thing about the Israeli propaganda, is that is officially distribute, being by embassies, Israeli organization, foreign ministry (that been recruiting shills and building what's called JIDF) and the Image of London was actually distribute by the Israeli embassy if I'm not mistaken, and that's not the only things you do, there were reports of agressive statement and behavious by Israeli embassies in different countries against media and the last one was against TVE in spain you can google it for more informations

This is really not true. Religion has been the cause of many wars, but most modern wars are generally over oil and other natural resources. 

Stating the obvious: Israel is currently fueling anti-semitism by commiting atrocious crimes against humanity.

The fact that no party in that conflict has the moral high ground, and that Hamas head is composed by a bunch of blood-thirsty criminals, doesn't justify the horrendous crimes commited by Israel.

Sometimes I wish that Israel was moved to the US: there are many reasons for it.

• Everybody seems to love Israel in the US
• the US Government always backs Israel despite of what the UN or other Western countries say
• there is pleeeeenty of space in the US to accomodate the 8 millions Israelians in what could be the 51th state.
• It would be a win/win: the US would benefit from the hyper-qualified Israelians (engineers, doctors, science people), and wouldn't be the state of Israel (and its people) much more safe surrounded by friends and not by deadly foes as it is?

That won't even be discussed seriously, do you know why? Because for the US is very convenient to have a good and powerful brother that recurrently wins its wars in the ME, with a bit of ethnic cleansing here and there. Of course somebody will tell us  some weird and anachronic explanation about the Jeweish being "the chosen people" and being "The Land of Israel" their "promised land", so there is no way they will move from there and "give up" Jersulem, and blah blah blah... But as you said there are many secular Jews that are not fanatic at all and just want to have a safe "sanctuary" in case there is a come back of the historic anti-semitism that history has witnessed for millenia. I guess that even the most stupid person in the world understands that no piece of land is worth the life of hundreds of innocent children, but again this is just economic and geopolitic interests at work - a super strong Israel surrounded by enemy Arab countries is too convenient for the current US status-quo.

Wars have always a clear economic reason - the common people is sent to die for some moronic ideals, but the true reasons are always power and hegemony = money for the people waging such wars.

Who would win the fight?

1.) Your imaginary formless spirit entity

or

2.) The Christian's imaginary sky wizard?

There is always a cost/benefit analysis in war in the top layer - and the reason is always power - but, from the citizen/media perspective it's always about other reasons, be it freedom, religion, justice and so on.

And then there's the theory that the wars are caused by too many angry young men in a region.

And for the Palestine, quite possibly large numbers of unemployed young men.  Perhaps guys that can only get paid by playing soldier-wanna-be in a terrorist organization with trickle down Iranian money.

Have to admit, you sure don't see much in the way of industrial production, crafts work, or any kind of useful activities from those areas...

Nope, that zionist isreal state conception thing was already in the pipe long before Hitler came along (try 30 years before): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration (& by the way, QFD: Rotshild :o ;D ::) :-*)

So one could argue that it is not God nor the 6 million slaughtered during WWII that give them the right to invade palestine. Nope, it was Rotshild's moneyyyy.

Zohar Argov is from the 70's and 80's. He tragically took his own life in a prison cell while awaiting trial for something. I don't remember what it was. He also had a drug problem. I am sorry to hear about all that, but he is easily one of the best Israeli singers that ever existed.

Paul Potts definitely has talent. I like his opera voice. He will definitely make it big.

Why are black Jews so militant?

This is a good analysis. In Israel, people do not take your money during the Sabbath. You have to wait until Saturday night or Sunday to pay them back for goods and services. Also, public transportation stops during the Sabbath and many people walk to synagogue. But the rest of the time, outside of the Sabbath, Israel is a secular country with cars, computers, internet, night clubs, etc.

And yes, most Jews and most Israelis are not really that religious. Many are secular.

Do you mean Ethiopian Jews in Israel or do you mean the Black Hebrew Israelites who preach on the streets of New York? There is a difference.

Preachers on the streets. They're about on the same level as the westboro baptist church.

You will teach Shulchan Aruh for free?

going back 10,000 years before the pyramids and abraham and stuff, there was no nonsense going on

it was only when the first gods were invented about 9,000 years ago that people started getting a bit nutty

one minute, happy hunter gatherers, the next minute it was all big hats and shaking ju ju sticks at blithe spirits while howling incantations to the moon, dancing naked and general behaviour of that sort

fast forward thousands of years and this religiousisation process begets two groups in israel both nutty fruitcakes

one group from gaza threatens to kill all the soldiers and military in israel but launch rockets willy nilly killing anyone

the other group want to wipe out everyone in gaza, and do a pretty good job, but saying they are only after particular baddies

Black Hebrew Israelites are not Jewish. In order to be Jewish, you either have to be born of a Jewish mother or convert to the religion. The Black Hebrew Israelites have done neither.

Anybody can become a full Jew by the process of conversion. You don't have to be born of a Jewish mother to become Jewish.

Here is a good video about the Black Hebrew Israelites by Rabbi Asher Meza. He is a former Baptist Minister who converted to Judaism and became a Rabbi.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn32QYD78KU

Can't say that I agree, we have archeological evidence of tribal fighting along the Nile before any of the ancient civilizations mentioned in the Bible ever existed.

regardless of "thou shalt not kill" etc, gods and bibles, many act like maniacs, and profess to the world their insanity, shoving two fingers up at any respectable godall involved in the savage mad dog lunacy of armaggedon in gaza and just outside gaza, are saying fuck god up the ass sidewaysbut they claim to be god's humble servants and would kill anyone at the drop of a hat who said god was a cunt

The Hebrew phrase is actually "thou shalt not murder". One can kill to defend their family and country from attack, but they cannot murder someone needlessly.

Technicalities like these are what bugs me about organized religion. The books have been translated andinterpreted so many times, who know what the original text said. What I can safely assume is that the intentwas to feature stories and lessons to live a righteous life and not for legalinterpretation of the wording.

yes

The Hebrew Tanakh is in its original Hebrew text. It was never a translated version. Some argue the Greek text came first, but I think it was just compiled first and created to fit in with Hellenism; the Tanakh books came first but were just compiled later. Nevertheless, the Hebrew version is the correct version.

The moral is to lead a righteous life. So you are correct there. But science does the same thing. They have technicalities in their books as well. But we don't discredit science for it.

There are differences in the Hebrew language though, so it will also depend on what era of Hebrew you read it in.

Please elaborate. As far as I know, there is Biblical Hebrew and Modern Hebrew. Israelis use modern Hebrew, but Israelis can read the Tanakh in Biblical Hebrew text. So again, please elaborate.

It is like how Spanish speakers and Italian speakers don't usually speak Latin but they can understand it.

Edit: We know the Israelis read the Tanakh in the original Hebrew because they found 2000+ year-old Dead Sea Scrolls that pretty much match what's in the Tanakh.

I don't want to tangent off to a differnet discussion, but all things that are absolute in science have been proven and can be replicated. Anything that have not been fully vetted but have gone through the scientific method are call theories which are open for discussion.

So for our discussion above, the equivalent to a scientific theory would be to show the current text compared to the original text but without the original framers dictating what to write and what they meant.

We have the Dead Sea Scrolls that have fragments of every book in the Tanakh (Hebrew Old Testament) except the Book of Esther.

Which was also written in 4 different languages.

is what is going on in gaza, and the conflicts israel has participated in historically, a good message to be sent out to the world ?

is the israeli bombing of gaza "leading a righteous life" ?

are israelis happy with their militarised society, conscription, nuclear weapons, berlin walls, and hatred of those in gaza

is this model of society one bright torch shining a special light of goodness to the world ?

Technically, what they are doing in Gaza is in line with G-d's message.

In truth, if anybody did what the Tanakh, New Testament, or Quran said to do they would be in prison within a month. G-d commands a lot worse than what the Israelis are doing.

Like I said in the Key Points About The Jewish Religion thread, I am not religious by any stretch of the imagination. If people were truly religious, and stoned people to death for committing sins, then they themselves would go to prison for a long time.

The Bible has a good message overall, but some of the beliefs and some of the actions committed in the Bible, as well as punishments for sins, are way out-of-line of my moral code.


True, but about 80% were written in Hebrew.

Which means there are 20% of the text that may have been misinterpreted. But then again, I have not read the religious text myself, so who's to say its not the least important 20%.

My main point in the grand scheme of things is that organized religion is making a mockery of itself when you have groups that, instead of following the teachings of the text, derives their own interpretation of the text to justify actions for their own self interest.

It is very well possible that all of it was misinterpreted. Both the Koran and the bible had been passed along for many generations before it was ever put in writing. If you have ever played "telephone" as a child you would know how much messages can get distorted after getting passed from person to person. 

Historical Criticism.

The historicity of the Book of Genesis is more or less denied, except by the representatives of a strict inspiration theory. Genesis recounts myths and legends. It is generally admitted that the primal story is not historical; but critics vary in ascribing to the stories of the Patriarchs more or less of a historical foundation. For details see the articles under their respective names; here only a summary can be given:

(a) The story of the Creation can not be historically true, for the reasons (1) that there can be no human traditions of these events; (2) its assumption of a creation in six days, with the sequence of events as recounted, contradicts the theories of modern science regarding the formation of the heavenly bodies during vast periods of time, especially that of the earth, its organisms, and its position in the universe. The popular view of Genesis can not be reconciled with modern science. The story is a religio-scientific speculation on the origin of the world, analogous to the creation-myths found among many peoples. The similarities to the Babylonian creation-myth are most numerous and most striking. The extent of its dependence on other myths, the mode of transmission, and the age and history of the tradition and its adaptation are still matters of dispute.

(b) The story of the Garden of Eden is a myth, invented in order to answer certain questions of religion, philosophy, and cultural history. Its origin can not be ascertained, as no parallel to it has so far been found.

(c) The stories of Cain and Abel and the genealogies of the Cainites and Sethites are reminiscences of legends, the historical basis for which can no longer be ascertained. Their historical truth is excluded by the great age assigned to the Sethites, which contradicts all human experience. A parallel is found in the ten antediluvian primal kings of Babylonian chronology, where the figures are considerably greater.

(d) The story of the Flood is a legend that is found among many peoples. It is traced back to a Babylonian prototype, still extant. It is perhaps founded on reminiscences of a great seismic-cyclonic event that actually occurred, but could have been only partial, as a general flood of the whole earth, covering even the highest mountains, is not conceivable.

(e) The genealogy of peoples is a learned attempt to determine genealogically the relation of peoples known to the author, but by no means including the entire human race; this point of view was current in antiquity, although it does not correspond to the actual facts.

(f) The stories of the Patriarchs are national legends. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and his sons are idealized personifications of the people, its tribes, and families; and it can not now be ascertained whether or not these are based on more or less obscure reminiscences of real personages. In any case, these legends furnish no historically definite or even valuable information regarding the primal history of the people of Israel. The whole conception of the descent of one people from one family and one ancestor is unhistorical; for a people originates through the combination of different families. It has also been maintained that the stories of the Patriarchs are pale reflections of mythology or nature-myths.

The Book of Genesis is mainly symbolic in nature. The six days of creation could have been billions of years. A day for God is like a thousand years for us or a billion years for us.

And whether or not the Bible is true, a lot of cultures, when speaking about their kings, would create stories about how they talked to the Gods. This is how history was passed down in ancient times. They would make up myths and legends to talk about their civilization's origins and to talk about their kings.

Well, that is 100% of religion. I specifically pointed out the myths and legends. So yes, necessarily.

bibles are much more than myths and legends...

there are parables and fables, short stories, tall stories, small stories, folk tales, fairy tales, allegories, sagas, delusion, fabrication, fancy, fantasy, fiction, figment, illusion, invention, imagination and superstition

Not necessarily. Some of what King David and King Solomon did in the Bible (Tanakh) is real. Like building temples, having reigns as Kings, making decrees, fighting wars against neighboring tribes. Some of that is historical.

I like to see the war between Israel and Palestine to be ended but what can I do? :'( Is US supporting Israel? As USis supporting, UN not doing anything? ???

Now I understand true meaning of Hitler's Words & assure you, he was RIGHT! :'( :

Chart of death count :
http://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/assets/4756436/IP_conflict_deaths_total.png

Kindly,
      MZ

The Tanakh also has loose stories about the actual life of King David and the other leaders of Judaism. They are not completely real, but there is a grain of truth in the Tanakh about their lives. So it is not complete fiction. Just like 300 the movie is not a complete fabrication either. It is based on truth with some fiction built in.

That is your opinion and i respect it.All i can tell you ,is that i don\t know it all, and a member of my family died in holocaust.....this is all i have to say about Hitler and the annihilation of Jews.

Another misconception of Israeli culture:

The music does not sound like Yiddish Eastern European opera. It actually sounds Middle Eastern. This is what typical Israeli music sounds like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOPiycQvnoQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PES7UqN6uv0

uh. no. there are different types of israeli music. you just happened to post mizrahi.

Are you Jewish or Israeli by any chance?

My father is Jewish.

Maybe you and your father can help me out with this thread. Besides my Mizrahi music post, what other disagreements do you have with my thread?

i dont know very much. israelis seem pretty aggressive, in general. not that they aren't nice, they just have more of an aggressive culture. things that people in the US call courteous and polite are seen as fake in that culture.

otherwise, fromwhat i can tell. it's basically like america.

i guess to me it seemed much more secular than you made it sound. like i bet there's a higher percentage of atheists in israel than in the us.

I have been to Israel twice. It is fairly secular. It's just that the country does observe the Sabbath like it is a national holiday.

christ that is some bad tame shit right there

one bloke going on about a cup of tea, doing shit all to chat up a grumpy lass who has a face like a slapped arse, while four ugly blokes are blowing kisses to him, while he is on the ferris wheel, what sort of gay shit is that ?