Bitcoin Forum

many altcoins are just having a meltdown... does anybody know the reason?..

Because most of them are shitcoins with nothing new or innovative, and just copies of each other?

No idea yet but I'm sure one will turn up. It could be a panic type move. Maybe bad news for one coin like a big one like ltc and the others are filling suit. I'm not able to check right now, what percentage down are they?

#   Name   Market Cap   Price   Available Supply   Volume (24h)   % Change (24h)   Market Cap Graph (7d)
1   Bitcoin Bitcoin   $ 7,473,589,399   $ 569.21   13,129,850 BTC   $ 15,770,000   -3.52 %   
2   Litecoin Litecoin   $ 171,298,330   $ 5.52   31,055,654 LTC   $ 7,932,790   -20.63 %   
3   Ripple Ripple   $ 42,877,872   $ 0.005196   8,252,600,677 XRP *   $ 292,933   4.12 %   
4   Nxt Nxt   $ 30,120,913   $ 0.030121   999,997,096 NXT *   $ 161,232   -18.42 %   
5   Darkcoin Darkcoin   $ 22,787,716   $ 5.01   4,551,817 DRK   $ 220,067   -9.34 %   
6   Peercoin Peercoin   $ 18,556,318   $ 0.857853   21,631,116 PPC   $ 175,000   -10.96 %   
7   BitSharesX BitSharesX   $ 17,141,253   $ 0.008572   1,999,775,140 BTSX *   $ 81,565   -4.93 %   
8   Dogecoin Dogecoin   $ 12,536,478   $ 0.000140   89,543,716,277 DOGE   $ 237,421   -15.32 %   
9   Namecoin Namecoin   $ 12,358,992   $ 1.29   9,570,450 NMC   $ 107,749   -8.88 %   
10   MaidSafeCoin MaidSafeCoin   $ 12,205,158   $ 0.026970   452,552,412 MAID *   $ 29,625   1.87 %   
11   BitShares PTS BitShares PTS   $ 7,223,964   $ 4.36   1,658,272 PTS   $ 36,119   0.88 %   
12   Monero Monero   $ 5,662,143   $ 2.08   2,720,157 XMR   $ 135,301   3.09 %   
13   Counterparty Counterparty   $ 5,403,557   $ 2.04   2,648,738 XCP *   $ 10,523   -8.61 %   
14   XCurrency XCurrency   $ 4,729,074   $ 0.856152   5,523,639 XC *   $ 51,583   -2.33 %   
15   BlackCoin BlackCoin   $ 3,988,230   $ 0.053427   74,648,907 BC *   $ 125,916   -15.59 %   

Take your pick...lots of red ink today

Total crypto market cap on coinmarketcap.com has dropped to $7.905 billion...and figure BTC and LTC make up more than 7.6 billion together.  That means everything else combines for less than $300 million?  That's a biiiiig dump from just last Monday.

The exact same thing happened last year before the big boom.  Heard it called the Bitcoin effect or Tsunami effect.  Sure feels like a tsunami.  This is when you buy, when they're nearly free and everyone is freaking out.

I prefer to buy the bottom 30 coins.  You can get 100 times more for you money while avoiding overhyped ShitCoins.  Last year It was those bottom dwellers like Quark that shot up the most, BY FAR.

Good luck!

Well folks, we all knew it wasn't going to continue like this forever. (images of titanic come to mind :) )

I wouldn't say forever. If you were around last November you'll remember this is exactly what happened.  People were panicking and freaking out cause alts we're completely collapsing.  Little did people know that was the best time to buy all you could afford.

All these coins are basically no different than stocks and because of that, I believe it's mostly due to it being summer.

Couple quotes:

First off, I was. Secondly I think this is just round one. Lets see what the next couple of days bring... Don't get me wrong though, there will be a time to buy but honestly only a couple options will be worth it.

Well i dont know whats the reason, but bitcoin is melting too, from 590 to 560.. something is triggering this downwards. maybe the ethereum devs are dumping the bitcoins they got from the ipo

I've been working on a variety of price-weighted and cap-weighted index concepts for alts...indexes that do NOT include BTC, which has lately been 93% of the total market cap (though now more like 94.5%).  

It just doesn't make sense to me that one can't compare one's alt portfolio with some kind of benchmarks, and if the 2-3 indexes out there have BTC (they do), that comprises the vast majority of index movement.  If I can't find an an index, I'll use my own for market direction and portfolio management.

For what it's worth, I have six different index concepts I've been toying with and they are all down 20-30% since last Monday morning.  Selection is based on combined cap and volume figures.  I've been re-balancing every two weeks,  but considering changing that to every week.  The one with the least number of coins has 31 coins that are not BTC, and, in that one, no LTC, either. Probably saved that one from oblivion!

I totally agree with you.  I think we're gonna have a few more bad days although it could stretch to 2-3 more weeks but with a bounce off the bottom.  The prices right now for most alts are ridiculously low as it is.  What a bad time to be broke.  lol.

Bitcoin is going down also.

If all alt coins are denominated in bitcoin, shouldn't this be considered normal?

Is it consistent with the ~30000 BTC being drained from then for Ethereum, StorJ, Stellar and Syscoin?

No, because the coins go down by a factor of 10!

Exactly.  But also, when Bitcoin pops hard most alts go up by a factor of 10-100.  The key is buy them at the bottom which I think is now...or maybe in a week or two.  We're definitely near the bottom I would say but I thought so last month.  lol.

Or those high market caps were fads all along and there is no real floor. We will see soon enogh I guess ;)

Well stellar also went down.. so the downtrend of other alts is not because of stellar.. maybe is because of the price of bitcoin that is going down..

And reality is finally catching up with prices. I hope this continues for shit coins and only innovative coins thrive (very few).

Stellar is still up xxx% this last 10 days.

What exactly is xxx%?  It would be nice to know the lowest low so far to use as a baseline.  Anybody know what the lowest point was so far?   Thanks!

250% market cap up

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/stellar/

Well, that's good to know. I just dropped my buy-in price.  Way too many coins out there to pay that much.  Once these eager buyers are done buying it should drop.

Then how do you explain DRK falling?
Surely it has nothing new to provide.  ::) 

Many of those coins only had $5K to $50K volume in a 24H.  Then came along Stellar which did almost $500K in one day, Ethereum with the cash slurping machine at the front door and other odd coin or two which is undergoing huge gains.

Not inconceivable that people are cashing out their alternates to invest what they perceive to be better opportunities (whether that's a long term hold or a pump-n-dump).

Seriously?  What does dark have to offer beside bogus anon tech?

You want real anon tech, your best shot is Cryptonote, the rest are all gimmick monkey anon coins.  Dark will be tomorrow's Aurora.

This theory makes a lot of sense.  The alt market was already shaky.  It wouldn't take much to make it collapse as selling begets selling.  These events could have provided that catalyst to create the spark in mass selling of alts. 

Bogus?  ::)  :D
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/bljhZYMYIai601mpoOsyW5cO_ovuCIy4pXHjmxIcfQ__VYbn5d8-YhQfpukBNdk0EO64rHjlfjf7ByTD08wts11ehyimFEPv9IzSCpwCVdVbGNOBkDgD9HzcnH1EC0T3Zw
Whenever you want to admit it or not, this technology works and the update is almost here. Even an developer of a Cryptonote admitted to it working.  ;)

Bitcoin only went down less than 5%. While litecoin went down 20% +. Something else is at played here.

Yeah, it's called manipulation.  Whales want a ton of LTC before it gets listed on Coinbase as a real currency.  That would take LTC to $100 within 30 days and it should happen later this year as Bitcoin is already too expensive for a lot of cheaper transactions.  Doge will probably be added too for micro transactions since LTC will be worth north of $100 which is why doge is being taken under 20.

Yeah, and even if Ethereum and co drained much money, that can't be the sole reason imo.

I am just so excited to see how NLG is going to end the year off, man that coin is like a hidden dragon waiting to pounce.lol

I'd like to point out that the diagram is just representing onion routing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_routing), and inherits all of the issues and attacks that Tor's exit nodes have. It also does little extra to obscure your IP address than Bitcoin already does (and Darkcoin too, as it inherited Bitcoin's code base). With Bitcoin: when you send a transaction it is broadcast to one of your connected peers, and only then does that peer relay it. The peer's IP address is the one that is recorded, NOT yours. Your IP address is never logged by that peer (unless that peer is malicious).

You can see on any of the transactions on blockchain.info (https://blockchain.info/tx/6f51b52fc9eb06cd3ef41c60f76c392c774f01757d8355fdb95bbba6a6fb1237) it says "Relayed by IP", which is typically not the source of the transaction (except for weird enterprise Bitcoin systems that do this on purpose). The purpose of any sort of IP obfuscation is not to layer on to of Bitcoin's already excellent system, it is to ensure that an attacker that has complete access to your router or your ISP's upstream router cannot tell if you are using a particular application. At this, the image above fails miserably, as this hypothetical attacker would still see you connect to a masternode and submit an encrypted packet.

I linked one as I don't want to link much more, besides I was in a rush.
How about we wait for the release and see what happens.
Versus the right attacker nothing is going to work, no ring signatures no nothing.

That is a great question.  I was planning my next re-balance this coming weekend, so no, none of that is included.  Just looking at the charts, I believe that the only one of those four that will make the rebalance, though, is Stellar.  I'm not as informed about this as I should be, but I don't know that Etherium is on an exchange yet, and, as such, it's not tracked by coinmarketcap.com. 

Unlike the big indexes of the stock exchanges that re-balance yearly, I'm re-balancing every two weeks.  Feels like there is so much more volatility in the crypto sector that it is absolutely necessary to do it that way.  Any coin that meets the cap and volume metrics will get included in the basket at re-balance. 

For what it's worth, though, 30K BTC would have generated a movement of 5.7% on the index that would have seen the most movement.  The others would have moved even less.  So even if 30K BTC moved into those non-indexed coins, that definitely would not account for much of the change I've been watching.

Whales are cashing out because BTC is going down  ;D

You mean they have prior info about a btc drop?

so they cash out everything to btc and then from btc to their nation's currency tomorow

Yeah that sounds highly unlikely!

Perfect time to buy your favorite altcoin, if you're sure about its future of course ;)

Yeah, I loaded up on NXT and another 2.0 coin.

Maybe they know it's going down  ;D ;D ;D

Maybe the bubble has finally burst. I hope not. Time to do some coinsolidating.

Which other 2.0 coin? Just curious, I might check it out too.

Quality will rise, that's why Qora is steady and has been rising in this slamdown.


Massively undervalued, impossible to crash from this price IMO.

IF the bubble is not bursting (and that's a big "if"), I would be inclined to buy the coins that haven't been sinking in value with the trend.

Its really hard to know whats a surefire win these days given the fact that even bitcoin is facing strong headwinds at the moment.

Mass adoption is everything. New fancy widgets and names are nothing. Anonymity... will always be something, but perhaps the market for "anonymous" coins isn't as big as all the speculation would have you think.

If you are of the "buy when there's blood on the streets" mentality, well first of all, you ain't seen nothin yet, but second of all just because a coin goes down doesn't necessarily mean it has to come back up.

So buy the coins that haven't sank much or even gained value while the bloodbath is happening all around them.

Just my long-winded advice.

(ps: if the Winklevii ever made a Triple Leveraged Short Altcoin ETF I would be all over it right now)

I fully agree: https://i.imgur.com/gyMMHcC.gif


I fully agree: http://imgur.com/a/ERheR

Not really. Qora has been hovering around the 20 sats/$1 million MC for a very long time. Sometimes it goes a bit up, sometimes a bit down.

There is blood and body on the street.

Traders must find a place to duck and cover for a while.

As expected. bitcoin going down.. LOL!  ;D ;D ;D

The interesting thing is that the Alts were going down like a day or two before Bitcoin did.  What did the alt holders know that the Bitcoin masses did not?

Any cheap altcoin (low marketcap) which is traded on at least 1 good exchange - especially exchanges that does not remove coins (Cryptsy, Bter) - is a good investment right
now but do not buy too much coins in one trade, spread investment over multiple smaller buys and over a few weeks period. As always, nothing beats a good strategy (plan).


None of cryptocoins have real floor. No matter what anyone say, zeroes and ones can not have intrinsic value. What they have is utility value and it can drop to and stay at
zero - one major sunspot or EMP incident and all electronics gonna end burned so what use cryptocoins would have? Anyone investing in cryptocoins should be aware of such
scenarios at all times.

yeah
almost all my altcoin minus
when i see my balance on the exchanger i feeling sad  >:(
hope it will rebound soon

You can't say Cryptology is a wast of time because an EMP could talk place maybe one day.  That is like saying why build the electrical grid or use satellites because if an EMP or whatever comes takes place they will all be wiped out also.  That doesn't mean we can't benefit from their use from now till then if it even happens at all.

Well, I've been doing some work that I haven't shared, but this seems like a good place to do it:

Indexes were all balanced at 100 just nine days ago at noon.  Info source is coinmarketcap.com

These figures are from about an hour ago

Index 1: cap-weighted, includes all cryptos except BTC is now 77.86
Index 2: cap-weighted, includes all cryptos except BTC and LTC is now 83.79

(These indexes are imperfect because coinmarketcap has added 5 or 6 cryptos in the last nine days, which skews them a little high.  Interesting that the HUGE dump by LTC has such an impact)

Index 3: cap-weighted, includes a basket of 31 NON-LTC cryptos selected by cap/volume metrics is now 76.44
Index 4: cap-weighted, includes the basket of 31 PLUS LTC is now 73.6

(I think Index 3 is actually the closest to what I'm trying to accomplish, which is to judge the general movement of the alt market as a whole.  I created Index 3 and intentionally left out LTC because it was so much larger than the rest of the alts and I wanted to gauge the movement of my portfolio against a representative sample.  Again, note that LTC influenced lower.)

Index 5: price-weighted version of Index 3 is now 79.81
Index 6: price-weighted version of Index 4 is now 77.46

(Dow Jones is price-weighted.  S&P, Russell, most others are cap weighted.  I just set these up to see if there would be much difference.  Again, LTC provides downward weight.)

Meta index is 78.16.  This contains elements of all above. 

My feeling is that Index 3 is the one that alt traders would find to be the most representative of general market direction, but I'm open to any feedback if y'all have some.  This weekend, I will re-balance the basket.  I'm using strict cap/volume statistics to mechanically re-balance.  Right now, the basket is 31 cryptos, but it's possible that it could drop to 26 or go up to 36 representative examples. 

I'm planning to seek out some help from somebody who can integrate API so that I can put some or all of these indexes up on a website that updates every 5 minutes along with coinmarketcap.com. 

TL:DR If your alt portfolio hasn't dropped by 23.66% in the last nine days, you might be beating the market.  If this kind of info is helpful to you and/or if you can help me put together a simple website so that alt traders can access this info, hit me up.

Same statement is repeated every few months , and still we have Bitcoin at $500+.

Exactly.

Also I think that cryptos do have intrinsic value: The time it took to implement everything

If it even happens at all? Like it never happened so far? I suggest you to check for some facts and history on topic, posting fiction and bullshits around makes you less credible.

EMP who?  You realize banking this day and age is all digital right?  EMP over the US and all your savings account would state: "$0" as the banking servers are centralized in a few locations. 

Better yet, as we saw in Iraq, all you need is a few guns and an USB stick to rob $500 million.


Crypto currencies are decentralized - for you to wipe out a crypto currency you would have to EMP the whole planet and somehow wipe out the internet (which was built to withstand a nuclear war).

More blood in the streets on Wednesday.  Total non-BTC cap down to $400mm.  It's not pretty out there.

BTC will go to $340, while smart money will be moving into XRP.

Not sure about XRP, but BTC is/was a bootstrapping fuel for other more advanced coins.
Many Bitcoiners think that it's all static, the world is stuck with one crypto and it will be like that for decades, but they are wrong.
It's all dynamic, and Bitcoin only set the stage and provided financing for crypto 2.0 to develop.

Good news! Every single altcoin in the top 16 has been green for the past hour according to CMC. Lets hope this trend continues. :)

There's a very definite similarity in how a bull or bear market affects the general mood around here. Here as is there:

Strong bull trend --> "TO DA MOOOOON!"
String bear trend --> "WE'RE GONNA DIIIIIE!!"

All from the magic of extrapolation. :)

Allow me to present the image of an old Business Week cover that's legendary in contrarian investing circles:

http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5018f063ecad04721500002c/you-cant-help-but-think-right-now-about-the-most-infamous-businessweek-cover-of-all-time.jpg

From the issue dated August 12, 1979, a Sunday. That past Friday, the S&P 500 had closed at 106.4. Almost 35 years later, it's at 1,953.72

Sort-of gives you a different take on "The Death Of Altcoins..."

But where would the fun in NOT hyping/fudding for most people here?

Worth noting, though, that both the crypto products and the trading markets are FAR, FAR less developed than equities markets (or their underlying companies) were in 1979.  They are also largely unregulated.  It's much easier to imagine the death (whatever that may mean) of such immature products and markets than it would have been to imagine that equities markets were going away.

Not that I think death is imminent...and that is a GREAT cover!  Thanks for sharing for perspective.

490 $ per BTC ? WTF is going on ? Etherium team is it you?

Thanks yourself!

Just a note, though. I have some off-and-on years of playing penny stocks - enough to compare those markets to the ones here. Only a quick and memory-limited assessment, but my take is that the "wild west" hothouse around here means things move much faster in altcoin land than in the penny markets.

True, the grudgingly put up with shenanigans around here are illegal there - which is a big difference - but the patterns of fad-chasing, hype, bubbles, collapses, bagholding and bitterness are strikingly similar. I saw it all the time in gold-exploration penny-stock land, albeit with less volatile ups and downs.

"I'll give you my fun when you take it from my cold, dead hands."

 ;D

Its almost Tuesday already in some parts of the world...