Bitcoin Forum

Hello,

I've been mining on slush pool since july 2011.
I've read the post about how the reward are calculated and i noticed that on short block, i get less reward because of pool hoping.

http://brucemangy.free.fr/SLUSH_TOTALHASHd2.png
http://brucemangy.free.fr/SLUSH_CDFd2.png

EDIT : Added later
http://brucemangy.free.fr/SLUSH_DURATIONd2.png

in the long term i know it does not matter if you stay on the pool. But then, why so many people do it then ? Stupid or they really can get more reward ?

My 2 cents.

I mine with slush as my back up pool purely out of respect :)

I mined my first 200 coins at his pool a year ago - hes a bitcoin institution

Could not agree more. He really does a good job and keep us informed on his official thread in here.

So nobody has actually anything to say about the statement i made ?

I understand the top graph, can you walk me through the bottom one.  Also what is CDF?  Thanks

Afraid to say something wrong.
https://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/graphs/#cdf (https://mining.bitcoin.cz/stats/graphs/#cdf)

I use this indicator to know when we start working on a new block and when we finish. The percentage is related to our luck (number of share processed and the current difficulty)
I have another one, if you prefer. (number of seconds for a round)

http://brucemangy.free.fr/SLUSH_TOTALHASHd2.png
http://brucemangy.free.fr/SLUSH_DURATIONd2.png

If you mine in a hoppable pool, you get less, hoppers get more, that's all there is to it. Friends don't let friends mine in hoppable pools.

slush's pool is not as hoppable as proportional, but is still hoppable. Please mine in a hopping-proof pool instead. (I have the greatest respect for slush, but his hesitance to adopt a modern reward method has gone too far.)

Don't confuse this with variance which isn't going to matter long term. slush's method also happens to be high-variance.

The way the reward is calculated on slush pool make it hopping proof.
i'm not confused with variance.
By looking at the first graph I can only explain the increase of Mhash/s at the begining of a round (see another graph on the X axis) by people hopping ! and i do not understand WHY people would do that.

We have up to 500 GHash/s (200 more often) of miners joining in at the begining of a round for max 1 hour. It is an automated process. Informations about the round should not be shown or should be displayed with a delay like deepbit.

No, it doesn't. It is well known that slush's method is hoppable. Please read Analysis of Bitcoin Pooled Mining Reward Systems (https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf) and/or search for the numerous discussions of this in this forum.

Why do you want the pool to be less transparent? A pool that uses a hopping-proof method can safely display all of its statistics.

I get that you dont like hoppable pools.
I get that it costs non hoppers money.
I get that you want to inform non hoppers

but what i do not get, is the anger over pool ops that CHOOSE to not change their reward method after they have heard all the arguments. Dont like the method of payout? get more from somewhere else, then go somewhere else. If enough people agree with you the pool dies, if they dont it wont. No reason to cry about it.  SOme people are quite vicious. Look at a1bitcoin pool. He announced when he oppened that he knew about hopping, he knew his payout plan was hopable and he didnt care, he thought there was a market for prop pools, despite the hopability.

A few people werent dicks and just reminded him that it could be hopped. But a lot of people attacked him constantly over his choice of payout. It isnt like you are forced to mine the pool. He said he knew about hopping and he didnt care. It wont effect BTC, or you in any way what so ever, as long as you dont mine there.

For sure warn as many people as you can about hopping and the negatives from it for people who dont hop.

tell pool ops that their methods are hopable

BUT THEN VOTE WITH YOUR FEET

For a libertarian loving community there seems to be a plethora of people here who demand that everyone does everything the same way, even if they dont use their services. That is just fucking odd.

Now I get it, thanks everyone.  

I have been mining Slush since I started in Bitcoin.  I really should change pools but he is an institution.  ;D

Is there a short list of large, hop-proof pools linked somewhere?

nice spirit. You don't like people cheating ... then cheats ? ... yeah i really wanna hate myself ...

i was suspecting your activities Goat and now i know for sure.

"Some people would say hopping steals from other miners. This is not true at all."

You found a way to mine more efficiently. Problem is : If everybody do the same, some blocks would never be found.

The pools spend more time on long block, but gets more reward in return (since people like you leave when the round is too long.)
If your keep doing this, you know you get more reward. So mathematicaly, we (honest people) make less.

Reminds me of people using emergency or entry/exit lanes on highway to go faster and increase the trafic jam when trying to go back on the LEGAL lanes...

We discussed switch to double geometric back on November during Prague conference - and you know that it's not *that* simple as it sounds. I played with dgm method a bit, but it is making pool architecture too complicated.

Yes. And I suggested shift-PPLNS (or shift-DGM) as an alternative which would work in parallel, but you never contacted me to work on this further.

I've been trying to get you to switch to a hopping-proof method since March last year, that is, one year ago. That's a long time to make a critical fix.