Bitcoin Forum

poll Question = Should NXT Rollback the Blockchain after the BTER Hack ?

i vote no.
and i suggest NXT guys think carefully !

i think they could undermine their coin by rolling back making NXT making it seem far less attractive to users in the future and give the coin a bad reputation.
the bad reputation belongs to BTER right ? ..one or the other is going to get it !

so far i have not heard any details on HOW this happened and THAT should affect what is done i think too !
If it's some kind of an error in the coin then MAYBE a roll back is appropriate but i have not heard that so for now i vote no until i get more info.

A smart guy just said unless it affects ALL users then NO on the roll back.. a very smart point (sorry i forgot the guys name) lol

So please vote and you can change it if you want too !

I think this poll would be a good idea to voice your opinion towards the NXT team ;)

i just seen a guy say this on the JPC ANN topic link in my SIG..


made me think hmm i wonder if this could be an advantage ?
like what if they paid the guy and then had the coin team remove the 100BTC anyway even if they got the coins back ?
See how this deleting a transaction or rolling back behavior could be exploited in the future ?
we're treading on thin ice with this mentality i think !

In the future all you would need is a coin team + roll back and a corrupt exchange
and we could see all kinds of worse and worse problems with this new bad precedent we're setting.
a whole new angle of attack and exploitation could be born out of this !

Having 5% of the entire coin controlled by a single, unknown hacker is a problem. A much larger problem than erasing a few hours of transactions when that's what the community wants.

This is the dividing line between people who believe in democracy, and people who believe in anarchy. I suggest the latters to go develop a coin where blockchain malleability is inherently impossible and to use that coin. Meanwhile, realise that this is a brilliant feature of PoS block chains: the capacity for people to vote on what they believe in.

anarchy ? Look where you are LOL

Even more, not all transactions would be erased just the once releated to the theft.

Also NXT not simply a coin that can be dumped or exchanges, something that can be blocked to an extent, but an ecosystem. NXT Asset Exchange is great and have more volume then most coins, the thief could destroy it with that much coin, and could also find a way to get profit out that way.

What if i don't want it? What if other 5 people that I'm connected don't want it?
The hacker is also part of the community.  ;)

Well obviously he will profit, the value of so many coins is very high indeed.

It's not a forum vote, NXT stakeholders make the decision. People who hold NXT and securing the network. How do you still don't understand this?

JPC was hacked months ago for some many millions of coins via users (not exchanges) (it was an RPC exploit vulnerable on lots of coins)
and the hacker dumped them all on exchanges tanking the price and it never recovered !
i never asked for a roll back.. i don't think any of us even considered it.
It affected my pocket !
Our coins went from about 81 to 31 over night and stayed there and got worse.
And i took my lumps and moved on..

NXT bag holders should take their lumps..
Giving them (NXT bag holders) special treatment is not smart and will effectively kill your coin. (potential users will always be reminded of this forever)

So NXT guys think about it.. want your coin dead or BTER ?
BTER will have to pay back it's users regardless or vanish off the net..
Meanwhile if you roll back for BTER's sake your shooting yourself in the foot !

NXT stakeholders know what happened yet ?
Because unless they have all the facts such as, how this even happened in the first place.. a vote on YES or NO is stupid !
or does it not even matter because your bag holders ?

i think the truly interesting thing is that the NXT devs were saying they could ROLL BACK ONLY THE STOLEN FUNDS, nothing more.

In other words, no other transactions would be affected by the rollback. So its the perfect rollback, not a complete erasing of all transactions on those blocks. only the bad ones.

I think that makes the choice much more difficult, but i would still choose with not supporting bter's poor security with a rollback. Don't leverage your coins power for an exchange's weakness.

doesn't matter now as bter has invested/sent 110 BTC to the hacker, so now the hunt is on...

I would argue that BTER has definitely learned a lesson and will be changing their practices. Nobody is working harder on securing their website right now than BTER. Plus, if the majority decides to consent, they can get their coins back as well and we don't have a hacker running around with 5% of the money supply that he stole from thousand of people. It's win-win.

uhhhhh "learned a lesson"

i have seen plenty of comments but not 1 saying how the fuck this happened in the first place
and what is fucked up is out of all this drama i have not seen one other guy ask once LOL
What does that say about all of you ?  ::)

gimme the facts or else !  >:(

this was due to a exploit through BTER? or a poor wallet passphrase?

some guy just said on the other NXT topic that BTER had used a poor password with no 2fa.

also thanks for voting people.. i am surprised i thought it would be a lot more yes votes.

Obviously a poor cold wallet setup. Even with a strong passphrase and 2fa you should never keep more coins than you can afford to lose on the same online system.

Vericoin 2.0  :D

The Bter guy in charge of the servers had used the same password for all the hosting accounts and perhaps more. He was in the midst of installing two-factor authentication, but he hadn't gotten around to the server holding the Nxt at the time of the robbery. There's been a little speculation that it was a sort-of inside job by an ex-employee or associate, but that's just unfounded rumour.

It's a false dilemma anyway. People can keep using the blockchain they want, they'll just not be able to transact with people that chose otherwise. Essentially, it boils down to choosing to let the thief go, or stop him, and then being locked in with all the other participants that made that same choice.

The noes come from people worried that a rollback implies "centralization" and people worried that businesses will shy away from adopting Nxt because of "rollback risk."

The former is technically inaccurate, as it would be decided by the community of forgers, but the underlying point is a good one. We all know what happened to Socrates.

Definitely NO!

it's a business, not a game for kids.

Think about it as if you were told that your last salary have been paid in counterfeit notes which your employer got from some customer who is gone now.

Edit:


If this is true then definitely its a bter fail and they have to pay for any loses, not the community.

Edit 2:

Disclaimer: I have no a single NXT.

Spoetnik, thanks for the poll, bro.

Heres a very brief summary of the situation so far:

BTER was compromised in my early AM, round 12-13 hours ago.
It appears that BTER used a common passphrase for multiple applications within BTER, including wallets.
50 million NXT was lifted, BTER appealed to the NXT community for help.

A full rollback (ie all transactions from the theft onwards reversed) was considered, and rejected.
Because of NXT's Proof of Stake forging architecture, there was also the possiblity (within a short time frame) to carry out a partial rollback, which would in theory only affect the compromised BTER account. Software to carry out this partial rollback was created, and made available so that the commmunity could decide to opt in or out of the partial rollback.

Right now it appears that the NXT community has decided not to implement the rollback in any form.


The funds in question are now here:
http://www.mynxt.info/blockexplorer/details.php?action=ac&ac=1244396688755618309

There was a short negotiation with the thief, but that only resulted in the return of 5 million NXT so far, here are the AMs on the subject:
https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_messages
and search for: NXT-8WJ7-8A2H-MBYN-3W9K4

You can see the whole story.

More info soon....


 

That we are even talking about the possibility of rollback PROVES NXT is garbage.  Rollback risk must be eliminated.  Stealing is a fair way of getting coins.  Been that way since robbers were shooting at stage coaches and even before. 

If NXT saves BTER, then exchanges have no incentive to deploy high security.  They'll just use weak passwords and let the robbers into the servers all day.  When they are hit, they'll just run to the devs and plead for help. 

NXT is totally finished if a rollback is done.  NXT is already in serious jeopardy just by their devs admitting there might be circumstance under which they'd be willing to 'rollback' a transaction. 

Now, the next party to claim a transaction was 'unfair' will be asking the devs to do another rollback.  Maybe only one worth $.5 million.  Then, $100,000 transactions being contested will be rolled back.  Then transactions of friends will be rolled back.  Where is the line? 

That ANY transaction CAN be rolled back is a serious flaw in NXT.  NXT is probably very dead after this. 

It must be impossible, no matter how compelling the reason, to roll back a blockchain.

Sell NXT.  That dog is dead.

very informative thanks
edit:
and thank to EvilDave also for taking the time to try and lay some facts down for us all.

edit2:
@RawDog
YES i agree !
The thing is when we think about it we will then have a centralized figure deciding who does or does not get to keep their coins in the future.
And in the very nature of crypto's smoke and mirrors and shadowy lies and games we can never really be sure 100% what is happening.
What if this and what if that.. what of BTER lied about ALL of this to NXT devs ?
See what i am saying ?
The only solution is to say sorry too bad suck it up.

Either the hacker gets to keep his stolen coins or NXT is of no use to serious crypto users.
I hope BTER can find some other way to get the coins back from the hacker though..

I was leaning towards a rollback but now I'm against it. Nxt shouldn't try to fix the exchange's problem.   It stings that the hacker has a similar amount to an original stakeholder.  At least Nxt has an alternative to exchanges (MGW) unlike many other coins.

Looks like we get a happy ending on this one, guys!

https://nxtblocks.info/#section/accountId/NXT-8WJ7-8A2H-MBYN-3W9K4

We don't need no steeenking rollback!

The qora-nxt-ora-nem-node-illuminati axis will strike again !  Eliminate the Axis of Altcoin Evil !

~CfA~