Bitcoin Forum

The bitcoin it`s going down cause the Ethereum team it`s dumping all the BTC! They dumped 1,150 bitcoins 5 days ago when the price was $590, 1,350 3 days ago when the price was $550, and now they have dumped 1,237 more TODAY when the price was $510, that`s why we went down 500usd and we are going to $450... Fucking Ethereum, stop killing the bitcoin.

https://blockchain.info/es/address/36PrZ1KHYMpqSyAQXSG8VwbUiq2EogxLo2?filter=1

Selling is not the problem, problem is there is not enough buyers yet. But it will change. Don't worry :)

Bitcoin price doesn't matter. Bitcoin protocol works regardless if price is one dollar or thousand.

it's ok, altho i do agree their selling is hurting the price.

this is how coins get distributed.  the further the better.

unfortunately, i think Ethereum is a big failure.  even worse than an altcoin that would at least have it's protocol already coded and a clear decision made on mining.  lots of ppl are going to lose money on that one.

their biggest failure is Vitalik's lack of vision and failure to understand economic motives and reasoning.  all that naivete will be built into Ethereum's protocol as we see with their leanings toward scrypt mining.

bitcoin may be a honey badger, but most people aren't. price matters.

for some reason I support your hostility towards ethereum. it seems like a couple of good programmers feel butthurt for not inventing bitcoin themselves and now they want to compensate by "making it right". this is a common pitfall of a typical programmer --- they get idealistic and want to make the ultimate platform for everything. while great in theory, in practice they soon discover that for some reason people don't give a fuck. People are happy with IPv4 and no one gives a shit that conceptually IPv6 is so much better.

so the mini pump to 600+ was because the buyers who bought ethereum? if is this the case, then it will return to the value before that pump, nothing to worry about

Bitcoin isn't being killed, just because at the time we are seeing the chart, the price is going down doesn't mean much.
Look back at september 2013, the price was falling too, with a flash crash too, and look back at many days that everyone was saying that bitcoin was dying.

This is now, tomorrow will be a brighter day.
It's always darkest before the dawn.  ;D

How do you know this? Is the address they're sent to a known address of a trading site?

They admit the needed of selling bitcoins till reach 3 millon USD. So there`s a lot of dumping incoming.

Just a couple of thousand more then - not bad.

Touché.

But people cannot complain about not getting cheap coins anymore. Now is their chance.

insiders cashing out.  

and yet no code, or even a set strategy on security. what a crock a shit.

Are they based in New York? If not, they at least should have waited to trickle their dumping. I'm pretty sure the BitLicense is hurting the price more than Ethereum's dump.

yeah, that too.

but Bitcoin pretty much grew up w/o NY's help or support.  i don't see why that can't continue.

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!  This is hilarious and ironic!!!  People were SOOOOO worried that the winner of the SR Auction was going to dump thousands of coins on the exchanges and crash the price.  Apparently because he was not "one of us" and was just out to make money.

Now the irony is that hundreds of altruistic bitcoiners invested millions of dollars worth of bitcoin into a complete vaporware alt coin company, and now it's THEM that are dumping thousands of coins on the market and crashing the price.

Serves all you fucking retards right for believing in such stupidity.   ::)

Neo & Bee much?

Truth.

+1


If it was them that 'dumped' they're ultra dumb.  What a quaint way to devalue the rest of your own assets.

Ethereum guys are running away with the money similarly how pirate40 did :D, ironically it was August back then too.

If true then eventually we will have all their BTC and they will have none.  Problem solved.

they steal money from other people and dump a low volume market with a very non-professional attitude!

Same solution.  People will eventually get tired of giving them their money.  They will dump all the BTC that people have given them.  We will have the BTC, they will have no BTC and no way to get more from suckers, and people will be wiser and more careful in the future.

It's a good thing for markets to be tested.  Bitcoin will come out of this stronger. 

Do not worry.  I put in a large buy order at $475.  Somehow the market always knows when I put in a buy order and never goes low enough to trigger the order.  Don't know how or why it works but it always seems to work.

Rest assured my personal buy order will stop this price drop at about $476 or so.

I can also stop a rally dead in its tracks by placing a large sell order just out of reach.

Thanks for doing that btw.  Maybe if we all do that, we can stop it cold at $476.  :D

https://twitter.com/cypherdoc2/status/500338050166427649

If they could kill bitcoin, then bitcoin should die.
We keep forgetting. Bitcoin does not need to be a certain price to operate. It could be worth $0.005 or $5000.00. It does not matter. People care about price, bitcoin is computer protocol. It could not give a rats a$$ about our greed.

But the coins are much cheaper now , so I'm in buy mode right now. I believe they will go up , just hold your coins and you will see!

LOL! --> https://2ch.hk/cc/src/1406117429315.jpg

UNBELIEVABLE! :D good find. I hope it's not photoshop

LOL!   ::)

Big lol...Ethereum is garbage imo

But, but .. then you could by a large yacht with BTC even if had all of them.

Which dumbass doesn't read the EULA  :P

it's real: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=428589.msg8345948#msg8345948


https://www.ethereum.org/pdfs/TermsAndConditionsOfTheEthereumGenesisSale.pdf

Yes, that's the important thing to be taken into consideration here: 1BTC is 1BTC and will always be 1BTC. If it is eventually better affordable for me to buy some more BTCs, then great, I buy it. Maybe the BTC dumpers are only giving us a very nice opportunity to jump in the BTC train before it skyrockets again ;)

Is it really ethereum alone though? The way you word OP sounds like it's a direct cause:effect on a ratio of 1:1

Big dumps cause the price to go down.  When the price goes down weak hands dump - pushing the price down more.  When the price goes down more then more weak hands dump, and so it goes until we decide it is a good price to start buying.

http://www.coindesk.com/margin-trading-crash-price-bitcoin/

could be a sum of variable.

Nice scam.

This is classic, it amazes me that people think giving to charities will help coins.  They have to sell to fund their mission.

Yeah i hope this serves as a lesson to those who invested hundreds on btc on that vaporwave investment that the only thing they got in short term is having the rest of their btcs undervalued.

Just checked that Ethereum project and it was the biggest load of BS scam I'd ever seen!  :o

Do you know some Ethereum investors/donators/buyers? I've a nice tower in Paris or a red bridge in San Francisco to sell to them...

Yeah this was funny as fuck when I originally read it, btw it's not a photoshop. I remember reading it in the official webpage. At least they were honest tho.
How do you guys know this is due Vitalika and friends dumping tho? Do you have any conclusive proof or just speculation?

People do realize they actually made a statement in the contract itself saying 'we may or may not actually make ethereum, invest at your own risk'?

Whether or not the cascades were due to Ethereum dumps, we know that the fact that there are 27,000 BTCs that need to be liquidated for funds is a downward pressure on prices. No? Thus, the whole idea is a dick move.

People just scrolled to the bottom and clicked continue.  ;)

all the so-call 2nd gen crypto sounds scam-ish

The coins are getting distributed
Anyways thank Ethererum for giving some cheap coins out and what not and I guess diversifying the number of people holding some of those bitcoins

And the irony is they are doing it by the book this time. Buyer of Ethereum essentially sign over their right to the developers and can't call them scammer even if the project failed miserably.

Look to me like they have moved 4k BTC, and they still have over 20k BTC unsold. Imagine the horror in the coming weeks and months.

We have 4k BTC to 470 to bitstamp right now.  The market should be able to withstand a 20k BTC dump if spread across exchanges.

TLDR, "Leave Bitcoin alone!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

*end thread*

Let's also thank Ethereum for helping us to the despair phase of this cycle.

We had to get their sometime so we could finally enter into another rally
Guess its also a bit of a blessing to get all the doom and gloom predictions out of the way while were at it and just go full bear for a bit
Then feeling refreshed be bullish again XD.

They can integrate bitcoin into their platform and add value rather that just selling bitcoin.

I have not followed NY regulations closely. Can somebody please explain: if you live in New York, is there a reason to sell your btc before NY regulations will be introduced?

I don't tend to keep track of it myself but it seems to be a legal issue
Can check bitlegal to see why
It seems Circle would need to block new york as well as other companies.

Circle: BitLicense Would Force Us to Block New York Customers
Stan Higgins | Published on August 13, 2014 at 20:50 BST

Two top Circle executives have issued strong critiques of New York’s proposed bitcoin regulations.

In a new blog post, Circle CEO Jeremy Allaire says that the Boston-based bitcoin startup would move to block New York customers from using its service should the BitLicense proposal become law. His statement was echoed in a companion piece by company CTO Sean Neville.

Allaire is one of a growing crowd of industry leaders to weigh in on the controversial BitLicense system in recent weeks. Yet, Circle’s response marks one of the first times a bitcoin company executive has declared publicly that their business would refuse to provide services to New York customers because of the proposed regulatory framework.

The Circle CEO wrote in the blog post that the regulations are “technically impossible” to comply with, creating a radically more challenging environment for digital currency companies to operate in.

He concluded:

“Without some material changes, Circle will have no choice but to block New York customers from accessing our services.”

The full post included several proposals detailing how Allaire believes the BitLicense proposal could be made more inclusive, while better positioning the bitcoin industry for growth.

http://www.coindesk.com/circle-bitlicense-block-new-york-customers/

Can check out more at bitlegal then checking under USA by clicking on it.
http://bitlegal.net/

Aha, so the reason to sell now would be it is the last moment you can sell on exchanges? Thanks for the info, I was also considering it, but e.g. Coinbase should be still OK for New Yorkers, I think?

I guess that sounds about right and no news from Coinbase on their stance on this issue to my knowledge.
I'm guessing no it should be OK for new yorkers since they are in discussions with paypal.
http://www.coindesk.com/paypal-subsidiary-braintee-talks-coinbase-accept-bitcoin/

Well so it seems like localbitcoins new york will have alot of work.. people will keep buying and selling bitcoins no matter if the big exchanges block NY customers.

The intent is to withdraw 4150 BTC from our exodus address within the next 48 hours. We reserve the right to withdraw up to 850 BTC more if needed before the end of the 42 day duration of the sale, but at this point it is likely that the remainder of the BTC in the address will remain unused until the sale ends. Of this amount, 2650 BTC will be distributed to pay for loans for prior expenses. Individuals who have contributed loans to the project will receive repayment in BTC directly; “we” will not be selling any portion of this 2650 BTC on exchanges ourselves, although individuals may choose to independently convert the BTC that they receive into fiat after the fact.

https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/08/08/announcement-on-planned-exodus-withdrawal/

Arbitrage will mean they'll be naturally spread out across the major exchanges. Waiting until closer to the end of the 20k btc before putting in my buy orders.

It's their coins and they can do as they like. They are not killing anything because they just can't.

Hehehehe.


Reference?

Woo! Cheaper antminers for me!

Did bitmain lower the miner price?

Still, even with the discount, will there be ROI?

If this continues they will bring the price down to 400.. damn, why the hell are they dumping the bitcoins.. they can pay the devs in bitcoin, if not when they dump the last chunk of 1000 btcs they will only receive 100k usd because the price will be 100 usd.

How is dumping price "killing" Bitcoin?

You know what would be "killing" Bitcoin? 51% attack. Literally.

Does dumping price have anything to do with protocol?

And who has even heard about Ethereum? I don't think they can have such an impact. Nobody even knows who they are.

suppose this is all very ironic,

Those with spare Bitcoin get greedy,spend some on Ethereum thinking ,i'm gonna make a killing

and boom get shafted by a lower price because of the dumps

so lose both ways Bitcoin holding worth less and Ethereum? well, who knows, not worth a lot at all

everyone with half a pea in there head knows it's gonna crash on release ;D

er......greed

pay devs in Bitcoin lol       it's obvious they want fiat and not Bitcoin

very happy to dump

There's over 13 million coins in existence, are you telling me that dumping a tiny tiny fraction of them is ''killing'' bitcoin?

Seriously, it is obvious that the price is way, way too high if you can't even sell 0.01% of the coins/shares without tanking the price.

I can't believe people bought ETH... Every thing was a proof of concept.

What if they are laundering the coins? They will buy back later and make the coins untraceable. Everyone knows that an exchange could easily be used for tumbling. It's easier for them to disappear then because using a dedicated tumbler for such a large amount of coins cannot be easy.

They collected over 4k btc?  For vaporware?  I'm in the wrong line of work...  :o

They colluded with other whales (probably close friends) to collectively dump, all the while shorting the market to make massive profits.  Insider trading at its finest.

Nice scam.

http://www.subeimagenes.com/img/chk-captcha-1060379.jpg

 ;D

I think it's more of an attempt to cover their ass legally in case things don't work out as planned.

That was exactly what kept me from buying. Too much ass covering. At least, offer something in return for your money.

I do hope it works out for investors but people in the altcoin scene seem ready and willing to throw their money away.

"Who just agrees (http://southpark.cc.com/clips/382783/i-agreed-by-accident) to something they don't read (http://southpark.cc.com/clips/382785/im-gonna-click-decline)?

silverbox!

where the hell you been, man!

Having kids, driving fast cars, smoking fat stogies, working.

 ;D

Took a month off of work, have a bit of time to read the forums.

Glad to hear you're well.

Having kids? Wow, thought you were much older than that.

Things have changed quite a bit since we were at it way back when.

Thx.  Your probably doing fine as well, as its unlikely you sold more then a small portion of your stash ;).

New woman, new kid..  s??  You might know the drill ;).

Yeah.  I still have most of my coins.  Patience is a virtue.  Had to get a few toys and upgrade the homestead thu..  :)

The debates on here don't change thu, just the price points ;) 

The only remaining question is whether to be Jet people or Yacht people ;)  Might take a few years for me, you should be there already ;)

New woman, new kids? Hell no, too cheap for that. Fastest way to poverty.

Ladies and gentleman, this is the infamous silverbox, of the silverbox update, from my gold thread. He won a battle from me when he won 10BTC from me in a bet that Apple wouldn't drop below 500 by a certain date. It eventually did a few months later but I was stupid and he was smart.

I think I won the war, however, with the Silver Slingshot.  ;)

Don't you have to pay more BTC?

So basically many people bought into a nice ipo promise incoming in 5-6 months without any written contract or something, how brave are those who invested thousands of usd on this.

What the fuck is Ethereum?

Some smart contracts thing that allows you to build on top of the blockchain. Or something like that. It's okay though, Ethereum may likely be successful; however, it's probably not worth as much as there is being poured into it.

Here's a video
Basically contracts and infrastructure using Turing Complete systems
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5FDvzj8YX4

The question is not if ethereum is good/bad, the question is why do people give them money for nothing really in return. They will never be able to monatariaze their code because of the open source function. If they are too expensive to use, someone will fork it. If it is too cheap, the ethers will be nearly worthless + inflation ;)

The market depth can not absorb 26k coins without the price going down by a lot.

I don't condone violence but trust me, if they simply walk away, the targets on the Vitalik and Charles backs will be bigger than Karpeles'. ...

There are a lot of institutional investors and very wealthy people pouring money into Ethereum IPO.  Some extremely smart people as well, despite popular opinion on this forum.

It wouldn't be prudent for them not to perform in 2014/15 as expected.

-B-

But yet all the sheep were scared shitless that 30K SR Auction coins were going to hit the exchanges.  Scared. Fkn. Shitless.  It's all anyone talked about for 3+ weeks.

Pretty sure selling 3,000 BTC would do this to the price, wouldn't it?

Yeah obviously a 26 k dump will send bitcoin price way down, but they say they will only sell 3k now, which already have been sold.. thats why the price dropped like 80 usd. And they will hold the remaining amount.

Ethereum raised +26k BTC because people is so irrational they do not understand how bad an investment it might be. Ethers are NOT designed to be scarce and valuable as bitcoins are, Ethers are just tokens used to reward nodes running code on the ethereum network. Furthermore, the final supply is still unknown, the ethereum team is free to create Ethers out thin air as they see fit and inflation will be extremely high - they cannot be too scarce by design, that would hurt their main purpose.

Making a long story short, ethereum as a scripting language might enable awesome smart contracts but Ethers as a currency complete lack the economic incentives that make Bitcoin valuable and potentially much more valuable in the future. Bitcoin is built to be a gold-like, scarce commodity that has all the elements to be "good money", on the contrary Ethers are just "credits", which supply is controlled by a central authority, and which are built to be a security and anti-spam tool for a distributed network.

If you don't plan to build anything on the ethereum network, then you do not need Ethers.

If you bought Ethers because its "Bitcoin 2.0",then you were deeply misguided by ethereum team's marketing.

If you bought into ethereum planning to have a ROI, then your only chance is for the hype to grow, attracting to the market greater fools that do not understand what ethereum is, and what are the economic incentives attached to it.

Back on topic: it seems strange that the ethereum team is dumping instead of making off-exchange transactions. And BTW, which exchange are they using?

Kind of tell people how shallow the buy side for bitcoin is. Any whale can cause bitcoin to crash a lot.

If they are sincere in contributing, why ask money from the public? Do they really need 13M+ to develop the project?

Is this similar to Reggie Middleton's ultra-coin?
http://ultra-coin.com/

I do not understand the ultra coin client yet but it seems like one-to-one bets with other ultra coin users on the basis of Bitcoins, locked in a wallet. Seems a nice way to cut out the middleman.

Total FUD. Most the Etherium IPO funds remain intact and what has been sold was not significant enough to move the market in any meaningful way.

The expectation of the coin going to be sold off will cause the price to drop.

The current price always reflect the future event and not current one.

But 26000 BTC is nothing, only 8 days of mining...

8 days worth of the total inflation of a any given currency is an incredibly HUGE sum. Try to extrapolate such a thing to the USD or to any fiat currency of your choice, and add to that the fact that the BTC inflation decreases over time until deflation takes over, which doesn't apply to the USD.

so you are saying that double inflation on 8 days can influence the price downwards for over 10 % for Weeks?

The 26000 BTC is on top of miners selling. So, someone has to buy up that much btc to keep the price afloat.

source?

if it's true might see new dump(s) soon

this is why ipo are bad, because the one who run the ipo can dump at whatever price, they got them for "free" basically

Bitcoin is still in good shape nothing to see here.

Do we know how much they have dumped yet, so we have an inkling of what's to come?

Sure, 4000 coins is not much more than what's mined in a day, so it's nothing we can't handle, but it will drive down the price for a while.

3k7 ? https://blockchain.info/en/address/36PrZ1KHYMpqSyAQXSG8VwbUiq2EogxLo2?filter=1

http://www.coindesk.com/price/
btc dumps few hours after the etherum's sells, correlation

Failing and scamming are not the same thing.  Indeed, in a venture as speculative as this, it would arguably be a scam to claim that the project will definitely succeed, when we all know it might not.  (And BTW that statement is probably only in there because the lawyers insisted on it - you shouldn't read too much into it.)

I have no horse in this race, though, and no strong opinion on Ethereum one way or the other (because I don't care about it enough to research it thoroughly).

roy

Although they are selling some BTC, they're mainly not dumping, but paying people in BTC.  However many of the people they're paying might (probably are) selling some or all of the BTC.

Full details here:

https://blog.ethereum.org/2014/08/08/announcement-on-planned-exodus-withdrawal/

According to that, the absolute maximum they will withdraw from their wallet is 5000 BTC (but probably only 4150 BTC).  And a chunk of the coin they withdraw will continue to be held as BTC anyway.  Some will be sold.  And the biggest chunk will be paid to third parties as BTC (who of course may hodl or sell).

Doesn't sound like enough to really move the market, IMHO.

roy

lmao this is going to be a priceless quote going into the future to become the meme to refute the 'price doesn't matter' crowd.

that is funny. bitcoin i think will die...PoW is an old idea. better solutions are available and people will obviously pick them over something as archaic as PoW. it's no longer logical...but most people are neophobes. they will hang onto their old ideologies until the day they die, clutching in their hands a USD drive containing worthless bitcoins


bitcoin has done its job...time to go home and let crypto 2.0 take the stand


maybe i'm wrong though and BTC will stick around; allowing exchange between 2.0 coins. oh but i guess that's what the AEs are for


someone sell me on bitcoin when ethereum/nxt are available? the only advantage is the strength of BTC network

LOL Ethereum will die because of this : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=563925.0

Only idiots who invested donated into Ethereum are being bearish about bitcoin. They're hoping to hype up Ether so they can dump it.

good point. in fact, that's how all altcoins should be distributed. altcoins that don't use this way of distribution are competing with bitcoin while altcoins that use such distribution cooperate with bitcoin. Ethereum is doomed for that reason.

The massive sell off of altcoin last week may or may not have something to do with Ether. It would be interesting to watch if there is an active market place for Ether and see how the coin will react to the massive downtrend for all coins.

the question for me is that, if they do indeed have 3k+ coins, why wouldn't they just sell it at secondmarket or to a private party? by dumping the coins onto exchanges, that will affect the price.

It is just another worthless coin in the making. I doubt anyone will be brave enough to put money into altcoin again.

Altcoins come and go, but there always seem to be investors in altcoins.

because there are always people who feel butthurt for missing the boat and want to compensate :D I tell you altcoins are the HYIPs (ponzis) of this decade. Getting rich ain't simple I tell you h'wat. There are traps everywhere. Back then when I was 16 years old I invested into FastMarket and SolidInvestment HYIPs all my pocket money. I used e-gold as a transfer of value. Of course they were scams :D but I was too inexperienced to know. I think the question is whether failing makes you stop messing around with something forever or not. My friend told me once that he invested money into IsraCoin and he was excited about it. I never asked how much he invested and he hasn't talked to me ever since. No pain no gain, good old truth :D

A couple of years ago local newspapers warned about http://emgoldex.com/
I was sure it is a classic scam but now that I see the website is still online it makes me wonder whether they really are legit.

Could you elaborate on this - what specifically is the nature of Vitalik's "naivete"?

Well Etherium might be trying to kill Bitcoin..but in my opinion, I highly doubt that will happen anytime soon. Prices have crashed all the time and then gone back up just as fast..maybe this is the Bitcoin fall at the moment...it did hit a record high..hopefully it will go back up there once more..or it might go somewhere between 600 to 700...per coin. Lets just give it time and observe instead of blaming people.

I'm saying that in USD terms (4 trillion "official" monetary base, 2.1% "official" yearly infation rate) the equivalent of 8 days of inflation is almost 2 billions - ask Soros what can you do on Forex to major currencies like the British pound with much less than that, some creativity and a bit of leverage. You can definitely influence the price for weeks if you dump or short, especially if you add margin trading to the equation.

If you consider the fact that BTC's inflation rate is currently 11.11%, and that it will go down to less than 2% only in 2020, you get another idea of how much money 26k coins are in relation to both the final and the current bitcoin monetary base.

You can also see it this way: 26k btc are aprox. 0.2% of the current Bitcoin monetary base (not taking into account lost or destroyed coins). In USD terms that would mean at least 8 billion (probably much more because the real USD monetary base and inflation rate are impossible to verify and thus probably fake).

The fiat value of 26k coins (aprox. 12 million USD) might be nothing in relative terms (because Bitcoin is still extremely small), but it is a huge amount in absolute bitcoin terms - that's all I'm saying, especially when you consider that the total supply is limited (only 13 million now; only 21 million in total) and unalterable.

The bottom line is that 26k coins are a sum that definitely allows you to depress the bitcoin price if that is the goal you wish to achieve - especially during a time in which Bitcoin demand has obviously slowed down.

Now that is funny!  Peter may have singlehandedly killed off all past, current and future alts that do not use this method of initial coin distribution, including  Ethereum.  Fastest destruction of an alt in history.  Ethereum dead before it even made it to the starting blocks. He is my new hero. This also has the potential of eliminating most of the incentive to make new alts for the pump and dump of it and reducing the entire alt space to serious coins only.

Exactly why IPOs are pure scams.... too many greedy pigs got slaughtered.

Imagine Linus had IPOs for his linux kernel.... it would have died in 1993.

Funny that "ether" and "vapor" are kinds of synonymous, no?

From a marketing/branding perspective, they picked a great name.  It almost guarantees failure!  :D

It is great news for current bitcoin holders.  :)

I was thinking the same thing.  I think a modern loose translation of "Ethereum" would be "Vaporware"

Not all. I've invested in Reddcoin and it was not a scam.

btw http://www.reddit.com/r/reddCoin/ :)