Bitcoin Forum

Update 19/08: I've kept the title but since I read the initial forum post, it's clear that it is more the potential for informal collaboration. Saw this post was from Vitalik -


https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6990.msg94298#msg94298

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Just read this on the BitShares forums from Bytemaster (Daniel Larimer), the founder & main developer of BitShares, it his just perspective & not be construed as being from Vitalik/Ethereum directly but...

(As far as I'm concerned two heads are better than one and the two best heads in crypto are considering working together on areas of mutual benefit!)





https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6990.msg93035;boardseen#new

Great news for the crypto world.

 Perhaps it indicates the technological shortcomings of Ethereum and that they have to "annex" Bitshares (like Hitler annexed Austria to get their small arms / gold and then annexed Czechoslovakia to get their superior tanks).

More like the technological shortcomings of POW. The DPOS blockchains are designed to be 'annexed' via partnerships or third parties that honour AGS&PTS, that's the idea...

ethereum & bitshares?

bitshares & ethereum?

bitthereum?

why not - i like it. both brightest crypto guys working on the same path would be a really great step for the crypto community 2.0

I've got my fingers crossed.

Sounds interesting, where can I get an overview about DPOS?

http://bitshares.org/delegated-proof-of-stake/

It's currently in use in BitSharesX.

If you want to see a table that compares DPOS blockchains to the others -
http://wiki.bitshares.org/index.php/Why_choose_BitShares%3F

https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6990.msg93147#msg93147

Does it mean both Vitalik and Dan are so afraid of NXT that they have to join efforts now? ;)

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/overstock-to-cryptostock

Articles like this show us Dan and team understand the big picture of crypto technology.  Can't wait to see what 2014 brings and a partnership between good people can only help things along.

That would be so awesome if two of my favorite crypto currency projects joined forces!!  ;D

Daniel and Vitalik are two of the brightest minds in crypto IMO, only great things could come from cooperation between the two projects.

Since Vitalik has raised to much money. He might as well sub-contracting all his work to other projects and integrate all the projects together.

Lol :)

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/overstock-to-cryptostock
The overstock article above is a quality read. I've seen nothing that indicates anyone at NXT has the level of economic understanding & insight Bytemaster does.

I've seen a rushed table from NXT/supporters claiming market pegged BitAssets are planned and in green
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=687251.msg8055098#msg8055098 but to date I've seen nothing yet that indicates NXT has even started 'anything'?

Meanwhile they're being finalised for BitSharesX & things like BitUSD are an obvious game changer
https://bitsharestalk.org/index.php?topic=6949.0

This is very exciting! I think these two projects working together could make DACs a lot more viable for a wide range of businesses.

What is market pegged BitAssets and why are they important?

derp

That's something promising.I imagine that the two combined it can be created something really valuable.I'm waiting to see the results of this.

I understand and like 'free floating' asset prices, 'pegged' screams of manipulation of price. So what's the purpose of those, can anyone give a use case?

Crypto 3.0?
Game changer?
Lol please.  You people need to get out more

The peg is still market determined. The difference is while anyone on NXT can create an Asset called NXTUSD.
For that to track the value of an actual dollar, it would either have to be backed by the issuer which is centralisation and nothing special at all kind of like Realcoin. Otherwise there's absolutely no reason anyone would value it at close to a dollar.

However BitAssets are covered by BTSX as collateral, so participants can agree to trade around the value of anything, Bitstocks, BitCurrency, BitCommodities etc. knowing the position is covered.

This video is a bit dated (They call it BitShares in the video when it's actually BitShares X now.)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5BV55IrZi7g

As for use cases...

The Opportunity

Given the current global financial instability, geopolitical tensions & high levels of government debt, holding sizeable deposits of fiat, stocks or commodities is becoming increasingly risky within the current financial system. Therefore, BitShares X may need very little real-world proving under its belt, before it is seen by some very big players as an appealing hedge for a portion of their portfolio.

Indeed should those centralised risk factors get worse or even materialise - such as significant deposit confiscations - BitShares X will be in a dominant position to displace a large part of a multi-trillion dollar industry virtually overnight.

Target Markets

Traders

It should go without saying that the privacy, low costs, freedom from confiscation and other advantages of trading on a blockchain will appeal to many of the hundreds of thousands of traders currently engaged in trading currencies, commodities and stocks all around the world.

In order to support such trading activities, BitShares X introduces TITAN - A brand new privacy feature which allows for fully secure, anonymous transactions, transferred to and from easy to remember user-created, account names.
 
Bitcoin Retailers and Users

There are over 30K+ retailers who currently accept Bitcoin as payment; however the vast majority, due to tight retail margins and the relatively high volatility of Bitcoin,  transition directly back to fiat via a third party service like BitPay. Many of these retailers may wish to hold a portion of their revenue in Bit-Assets such as BitUSD.

Similarly the thousands of Bitcoin and alt-coin holders may also wish to hold a portion of their fiat earnings or savings in less volatile assets such as BitUSD, BitCNY or BitGold.

Existing Hotspots

Places like Ukraine, Venezuela, Argentina, Ghana and many Asian countries have significant capital controls that already restrict the flow of capital and foreign currency. The need for BitShares X to fill a void caused by these restrictions is clear, so it makes sense that there may be rapid adoption in areas like this, as they were also some of the strongest areas of initial Bitcoin adoption.

If you have any good suggestion and idea, please feel free to contribute.

Thank you, this is an important part.

So BitAssets are covered by BTSX as collateral. If I understand it correctly, NXT plans to do something like that within its Monetary System feature, where tokens are supposed to be issued covered by NXTs as collateral. NXTs would be 'locked' and a certain amount of tokens issued. Those 'locked' NXTs would set a minimum price in NXTs the issued tokens can be remeeded for. Of course, tokens can be traded above that price. That would be the best equivalent of Bitshares market pegged BitAssets. Provided I got your explanation right.

From your description it sounds like NXT will at some  point do a basic implementation of collateral.
It sounds like at best that system could give a base/minimum value & some security to some 'user issued' assets. It also seems from your description, it is just the issuer, not the market participants locking up NXT so the issuer can create a starting value for the asset. This is very different.

BTSX is covered around whatever the value the asset moves to because the market participants are providing the collateral at that level whenever a new trade occurs. So for example if BitGold doubles in price in a week then the collateral is there to back BitGold at that new price level.

Daniel Larimer and co are on another level with this. I would suggest heading over to their forums as I'm no expert other than to be able to see the huge game changer this is, if they work.

Ok, still don't see why not just let the price float freely, why put collateral to it every week?

Is there an equivalent of what this is all about in real world trading (stocks, bonds, whatever)? What is this financial instrument called? Maybe that can make it more clear.

The equivalent IS real world trading. What NXT is doing is letting you buy and sell.
BTSX is letting people short an asset and just like in the real world you have to post collateral to do that.

 As I say others can explain it better.

EDIT: Never mind... my memory is bad.. I was confusing devphp with ChuckOne

Nope, he is a php dev... which is even worst!  lol

Just wanted to chime in to say that this partnership is really promising. Don't worry about the noise that people with agendas is causing. The future looks bright for BitShares&&Ethereum...

I retract my statement. I confused devphp with ChuckOne. This was the thread I was referring to in which ChuckOne wasted my time by asking questions he knew the answer to to prove his point: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=659349.0

I thought that was what devphp was doing here, but I confused him with ChuckOne, so maybe he had honest intentions. Although it still kind of seems like he has an agenda... I still retract my statement. Especially when devphp has 750+ posts on the Nxt forums and says things such as this:

BitAssets are essentially  contracts for difference  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_for_difference) between buyers, sellers and the blockchain.

merge two scammy IPO's no one cares about into a new one ? brilliant LOL

those guys in the picture are going to have to work over time to counter all the negative feedback all over the web HHAHAHA

why not make another with URO too ?
i shouldn't say that they prob already considered it and that is Plan C LOL

Well, it basically goes like this:

Turing-completeness requires a lot of resources. PoW requires a lot of resources.

So, with PoS, they eliminate the latter and save more power for the former.

Good point. At least you are being more amicable now than your other Nxt friends. I really don't get the hatred that most Nxt users seem to have against Bitshares and Ethereum. I do not own any crypto currencies at the moment, so all of my opinions are as close to honest opinions as I can get, but I fear others are more worried about their personal agendas and what will make them the most rich. I discuss ALT coins out of genuine interest and the will to see them improved upon, mainly for academic purposes.

Honestly, I see great potential in Nxt, Ethereum, AND Bitshares. We as an ALT coin community... Arguably the Front runners in the cryptocoin 2.0 wars work together, much more will come of it rather than fighting all the time. I haven't really seen Eth/Bitshares supporters dogging on Nxt, why do you guys feel the need to? You guys say that Eth/Bitshares is scared of Nxt, but it kind of looks like it's the other way around...

I think all three have great potential. it is bad enough to have the Bitcoin/Litecoin nut hungers against us, we don't need more enemies than are necessary.

Honestly, I do NOT see great potential in Nxt, Ethereum, AND Bitshares..
Their distribution model and agenda is all scam.. as a matter of fact ANY IPO coin or similar is a scam .

New guys.. your welcome (for sharing my Legendary crypto insights into the world of altcoins)

just do it.. get naked.... get in, then.. say it !

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/6294599936/h6B2973C4/

let the Genius of Spoetnik wash over you and bask in the glory and bear witness to my glorious path.. i shall lead you all
away from the suffering of paid forum scammers trying to sucker you out of your money.

Don't fall victim to their evil ways !
The greatest trick the devil ever did was tricking people into thinking he was not real.
And that is precisely what these scammers do.. they buy into a scam / ponzi / pyramid scheme on the ground floor cheap
then they come here and play games posting all kinds of dumb deceitful crap trying to lure other guys higher up on the pyramid..
until eventually they DUMP hard on you naive guys.. it happens time after time and everyone knows it.

Don't be low hanging fruit noobs.
I am your crypto-savior and will battle all the evil for you guys, come with me and worship and be free !
And you that have lost your way i can help you clear away your crypto-sins :)
Judgement day is coming and Spoetnik loves you all !

Let Spoetnik into your heart !

Spoetnik

Do you have some knowledge about these being scams?  Please share because all we see is your opinion, no fact.  Also please explain how BitShares is an IPO coin?

i am not on any list guy LOL
and i don't get jealous of being in on Ponzi schemes early either..

unfair distribution models in a scene overloaded with corruption is the problem.
the problem is not that i missed my opportunity to get in on a pyramid scheme early..
it's that we have 340,000 forum accounts and 1,000 coins and a new coin comes out even more scammier than the last
which is the Bitcoin killer.. then dumped and forgotten.
Why do we need 1,000 coins ?

edit:
1,001 NOW !
after reading this topic we have one more ;)

I like and own both NXT and Bitshares.
There is no hatred.
However, if you haven't seen Bitshares supporters dogging on NXT, it doesn't mean there hasn't been any dogging (comparison table of Bitshares vs other cryptos is one example, which would have stayed hugely skewed if not corrected in time or Dan's own article why Bitshares is above NXT is another). Perhaps you haven't followed these issues because you don't own any cryptos.

It will be to everyone's benefit if supporters of both coins try to present objective view of their favorite coin without distortions of reality. Both NXT and Bitshares supporters have been biased sometimes, that's a fact. Both coin supporters should try to get rid of that bias. My question on market pegged assets was genuine interest, because this term can be loosely interpreted and I was interested what Bitshares' definition is. I am learning, and ask questions. By the way, this helps everyone reading these threads get answers too.

Not sure about Ethereum though, it doesn't exist on live net yet, and it's hard to tell what it can or cannot do.

http://s15.postimg.org/eozct279n/Spoenik.jpg
 
Uhh yes you are.  You registered for NODE and you sent money in.  You just forgot about it.  It's hypocritical to hate NEM yet you're somehow on the list for another fair distribution coin.

Bitshares has always changed what it wanted to be and what it is.  The dev is smart but always seems to be a few months behind and constantly changing directions midstream. 

Ethereum I expected better of, I wish I hadn't bought any Ether now.  If Vitalik doesn't know what the hell he wants Ethereum to be by now after all those conferences and speeches then I am really worried for Ethereum. 

Seriously, both of these projects have already taken peoples money and now want to completely re-envision themselves, that just shows weak leadership and people that don't have vision.  Jobs or Gates or Musk didn't ever redo a product like that, they came out with a vision, saw it to the end and after it was in market started working on the next big thing. 

I have never possessed any coin that had an IPO etc.
That is clearly some other guy who used my name here..

I am not kidding or lying etc either.. if any exchange staff has proof of me owning any of these coins feel free to post it.
and add the IP address too ..i'd like to know who is pretending to be me LOL
never heard that before (about the list) doesn't surprise me though.

not going to keep harping that is not my style around here.. the distribution model is my chief complaint on this and similar
and rather than harp on and on about here i posted and tried to keep it light and bumped another topic about IPO's to redirect the talk elsewhere.
I commented then bumped the other topic/Poll..
this topic = Today at 05:30:35 PM
other topic = Today at 05:37:27 PM
Do you think coins with IPO/premines will succeed and be popular/mainstream?  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=588160.msg6444786#msg6444786)

Well, I care about the tech and how much it helps people. Anything else is just senseless.

Personally, I consider BitShares a clone of Nxt and Nxt Concept and therefore see not advantages over it.
Personally, I feel Turing-completeness is not required for 80% of all the financial and social use-cases. So, implementing a system with many downsides (we discussed those internally and on nxtforum) might be an overkill and will require further discussion and improvements. I think that is a reason why Ethereum needs that much funding to implement their idea (conceptually as well as technically).

So, personally, I feel the up-coming Smart-Contract feature of Nxt will outperform both BitShares and Ethereum on the social/financial side as well as on the technical side. Simplicity beats mostly anything.

Of course collaborating is always a good thing for both sides. However, I feel because this is due to the money. I guess people would act differently if it were about something else.

I bought $0 Ether.  I knew from the beginning that it a questionable project.  It is often forgotten but in January they had a brief IPO (which was rescinded due to Ontario law on crowd funding) where they stated on that Bitcoin Foundation forum where they wanted a $30 million IPO and that their project was in the conceptual phase.

Looks it was rebooted after Maidsafe, as Vitalik and company were probably smacking at the lips of making their own fortune.  Ethereum is now based in Switzerland (at least according to their website but then why do they supposedly have an office in Uganda?)
 

The whole Ethereum project is reinventing the wheel and not even a particularly good reinvention.  It took a good decade to work out the bugs in Java and C++ and to educate a generation of developers to program in that language.  Ethereum language is going to have problems and it won't have any developers for awhile (so who will program the ecosystem?).

As well what is the flipping point?  I need an algorithm to replace bankers - not an algorithm for a faster than light warp drive.  Bitcoin already accomplishes this but Bitcoin has slow confirmations, limited ecosystem and I feel there is a conceptual issue in mining and how it was distributed.

 

right Ethereum might have just been a too grand idea to begin with.  cool? yes.  but absolutely needed in that form? no

Bitshares cracked the BitUSD issue with collateral positing. Nicely done!

Ethereum is looking into Bitshares now. All the money raised seems stupid now, they could have just partnered from the start.