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hi all, i'm finished with this.

my 1784.38 BTC debt obligation will go to the highest bidder in exactly 7 days.

relevant thread:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989.0

spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnzolfvAaL97dGlQZjZmcFMwTzlmbWJNUHdyZnM4M2c#gid=3

auction ends: 2012-APR-08 02:19:00 UTC

1 BTC!!!

thank you for your bid.

i should mention that this debt represents approx 39% of the total (i.e. you get about 39% of any funds sent to the repayment address).

5 BTC

thank you (i was going to quote everyone's bids but then i realised you can't edit posts in this thread anyway :))

6BTC. So do you mean we would recieve 39% of the total BTC?

thank you.

it means whenever some 'shades/minico' (shakaru) debt is repaid, you'll get about 39% of that repayment distributed to you.

the reason this debt is 1784.38 and not 1800 btc, is because i had 15.62 distributed to me after 40.01 btc was repaid by Shakaru to the repayment address (an address under the control of a 3rd party - imsaguy).

so for example, whenever 100 btc of the debt is repaid, you'd get about 39 btc of that coming to you.

why doesn't he just declare bankruptcy I read through that whole thread, and seems like that is what bankruptcy is for, he is suffering physically because of a bad business move.

Thanks for getting back to me. Awesome, sounds great. Let me know if I am outbidded please.

following :/

perhaps you can subscribe to the thread, so that you get email notifications.

17.8438 BTC

25 BTC.

What's the bad business move he made? How can someone possibly lend 4000 BTC and lose not part of it, but all? =/

**disclosure: I am completely clueless on what happened**

30 BTC

Not knowing all the terms of the pooled repayment system that imsaguy worked out with creditors, what leverage is there in terms of collections?

By this I mean purely legal means, not illegal harassment.

As with anything BTC related absolutely nothing guarantees it he can walk away from his obligations any time he wants.

One day, you go out for drinks and take a bit money to pay for it, telling yourself you'll put pay it back tomorrow.  Another day, you get evicted, so you take another few thousand BTC out, again telling yourself you'll put it back later.  You can't cover it with your own money, so you ask for more loans, and more loans, do more deals, more businesses, etc.
I doubt skakaru ever went into this planning on losing all the money or scamming people in any way.

Well they do say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

It would be one of the greatest heists in the bitcoin community if shakaru ends up winning this auction below his original debt :P

Is he even allowed to bid? ::)

If it happened at all as you described its pure criminal and not to be taken lightly. Why should people borrowing BTC and throwing it away with "good intentions" be treated any different than businesses who pay above earnings to CEO's and then declaring bankruptcy. We wouldnt go out of our way to state those businesses had the greatest intentions but failed only due to forgetting to put money back.

People pay themself more than they should since they speculate on future performances, its bad business and should be treated as criminal.

35 BTC.

I do NOT support shakaru in any way.  What I am saying is that he was irresponsible.  I myself am running a bitcoin investment fund.  My reserve account that I have for covering defaults with my own cash is not to be touched under any circumstances.  It would be morally wrong, irrational, and irresponsible for me to go messing around with the funds that I put up to cover any losses the fund incurs.  If funds are off limits, don't touch them.  I follow that rule, but for some reason shakaru didn't.

anyone bidding on this auction should have the capacity pay their bid amount within a reasonable timeframe - eg. 48 hours.

35.6876 BTC (2%)

Less risk on Pirate's lending program...

Didn't something similar happen in The Brothers Karamazov (Dostoevsky)?

Looks like chapter 7 is the way to go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_13,_Title_11,_United_States_Code#External_links

thanks burt, and thanks everyone else for all the off-topic replies, it keeps the thread on the front page.

I thought about this, him bidding on his own debt will only push up the amount higher. Assuming he has the money he should let someone else win, then just pay it off. Why keep bidding it up, seems silly:/

the only reason he shouldn't be bidding imho is that any money he has should be going into the pot, not spending on other things such as 1 creditor's debt. him bidding on this debt wouldn't be fair to the other creditors.

anyway, there's no way real way to know whether burtwagner = shakaru or burtwagner != shakaru so it's a bit pointless even worrying about it.

Considering no one would bid more than the original debt, its possible he could get the final bid at less than total debt ;)

If I get the debt for my current 2% bid then I am hoping that he will pay more than 2% on his total debt - I get a profit for anything he pays above 2%.

If he buys the debt then he can make a "profit" on his own debt.

But, really, where is he going to get the BTC to buy his own debt - he is broke, right?

I am not him.  There I have proved it ;)

If he is able to pay enough to the pool such that your cut of the payout is greater than or equal to his bid, I don't see any problem with this. Of course, if he is able to come up with the money so quickly, he'd be bound to be outbid since if he ever would make another payment, anything on top of what he bid (since it'd have to be guaranteed for him to bid at all) would be free. Thus, it would only make sense for him to participate if he was able to pay off the entire debt at once. Of course, he'd just be buying the whole debt entirely at that point, since he'd have to bid the maximum amount in order to not be out-bid.

That's not at all true.

I'm asking about the original contract.  If I'm burdened by clauses such as "I will never file a lien against your property or seize assets," my ability to apply pressure to encourage remuneration is reduced, as would be my bid for this debt.

At the right price, it becomes worth it to me (or anyone) to seize his property or provide material support to imsaguy (if this debt is no longer severable from the class of creditors) to do the same.  I'll take a chunk of the restitution funded by the forfeiture of his car, his computer, or his vintage prurient daguerrotype collection, if such were to exist.

So, DILLIGAF, since you don't know anything about the question I asked, I will ask more specifically.

payb.tc or imsaguy, were there any agreed upon or otherwise implied terms limiting the means of recapture of value in the event of a default?  Was the original agreement priced in fiat, even indirectly?  (As in "x USD in BTC")

Gracias!

Since there is no security in place through a binding contract any such action would get you arrested.

I'd pay 5 BTC to see that!

Get him in here!

the original contract was for a 20GH/s rig for 6 months. i paid 1800 BTC for this back in september. there was no paper agreement, no signatures. this was done through the forum and a little conversation over the phone.

although the initial price was worked out on the basis of his USD figures, the original rounded price quoted to me and paid by me was the flat BTC figure. the returns to be generated were purely going to coins coming off the hashes... at no stage did i ever figure USD into my investment, i just wanted to grow my coinage.

burt=shakaru -    that's one of the funniest things I have ever heard :)

would bid but not against friends...

37 BTC.

You can bid now!  Unless Jake is another friend...

I love Internet lawyers.  Especially ones who make up laws in their heads.

Perfect, thanks.

People do this often.  Shakaru still owes the total original debt and anyone that purchases the debt is entitled for shakaru to pay them all the debt that shakaru now owes the new loan holder.  Just because someone buys the debt for any amount below the original debt amount does not mean shakaru can lessen the debt he owes.

In America, people lose their homes if they don't pay their mortgage or property tax bill and the property is auctioned off.  The owner is entitled to bid on the house and is usually encouraged to do so by their lawyer.

I am off the hook.  Now Jake = shakaru ;)

50 BTC

55 BTC

 :o :o
Just last week you wanted out of this

To good a deal to pass up at 50 BTC.

Yeah. My brain was not working when I said that. I'm normally pretty sharp on this sorta stuff, lol. Sorry for the fail.

I see so much shakarus  :o

60 btc

75 btc

7500 mBTC

lol...watching

Posting this summary about the shakaru situation here so everyone has the same info about this debt:

-August 2011 shakaru sold mining contracts for 45+GH/s, for a total of more than $20 0000.
-Shakaru also started the two GLBSE companies SDM and SDM.LEVA, I am not sure how much he got from this, but he never bought the mining equipment the company contracts stated he was supposed to buy. These contracts are very clear and shakaru took the money from the IPOs and used it on personal stuff. Clear theft.
-Only a few of the smaller contracts ever started up, but they did not run for long.
-I had paid extra to be able to log into my mining rig remotely. I tried to do this one day after the rig had not been working for a few days. What I found was the rig mining on shakaru's own deepbit account.
-Shakaru has given various excuses for the problems, often changing his story, blaming it on other people scamming him, blaming it on the electricity company etc. Many of the stories have been totally unrealistic and many of them have been exposed as pure lies. For example, he blamed the forum user mrbashfoo for running of with 4 4U racks of hardware, 15 x 5830 graphic cards and more, but it turned out the only hardware mrbashfoo had gotten from shakaru was some stuff he was going to throw away.
-Trying to get shakaru to pay his debt has been a pure nightmare. Him dodging PMs, e-mails and Skype IMs. Always lying about when he could send you a few coins etc.
-It turns out that in addition to selling the mining contracts he has also been taking loans from various forum members, even when he knew he could not pay them back.

From freeway we have learned:
-Shakaru stole rent money that was given to him, and did not pay the rent resulting in them being evicted.
-He has  spent a lot of money at the bar during this period.
-Shakaru bought a lot of very nice Christmas gifts this past Christmas.
-He never had mining equipment that could produce anywhere near the 45GH/s contracts he sold.
-At the moment he does not have anything of value or any mining rigs, he is broke.

All in all shakaru is a theif, pathological liar and a scammer. I do not think anything he says should be trusted. The only way I see him getting hold of any money to pay back his debt is if he runs another big scam here. That is why I am warning everyone about him. I do not like that he is running a trading bot at GLBSE and I think there is a good chance he will just steal all the money put into it.

again thanks everyone for bumping the thread... i should get this kind of drama going in all my auctions :D

blah blah blah

Interesting thread. Best of luck to you payb.tc.

thanks! and thanks to amazingrando it just got ~3 btc more valuable: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=65989.msg837285

if you'll ever again auction 1700+ btc for btc 42+- please drop me a PM
and I'm not bidding. just a free bump and thanks for the reading material

Don't think I quite understand the gravity of the situation. Does it go something like this?
>Shakaru owes payb.tc 1784.38 BTC
>payb.tc doesn't know how long, and if, Shakaru will pay it off
>payb.tc will take the highest bidder from this auction, and Shakaru will owe the winner 1784.38 BTC, instead of payb.tc.
>Bidder wins auction for low price, and might make a profit if everything goes well for him

Yep.

+10 You understand

Woot! Actually got something right for once.

On with the bidding now...

85 btc

90btc

95 btc

100 btc

thank you kluge and teek for your interest, and good luck to all.

Hmmmm... I just read through shak's liquidation thread. He *does* have more than what's listed there, right? (I mean, something more valuable than tens of cables he took the time to count and list) It's not a very encouraging thread.

forgot to mention in the OP: in case it's not obvious, the cut-off will be based on the forum clock.

errr... i guess that clock means it's ended!

congrats kluge... please pay to 1pSw5cbr3fKkqepbdmyGN4K1wE2vUCjfm and i will message imsaguy.

I'll get that to you within an hour (need one confirmation on a withdrawal). Cheers!

Payment sent. http://blockchain.info/tx-index/3710772/8a2bc1af95794da1c6a36db5b59aa87bbf2c3e3f0dbfd85d6bdb34432ff544f2

thanks very much

Guess you really can't make the people blinded by the bitcoin dream see the truth...

5.6%?

basically yeah. 5.45% if you count the 3 BTC repayment that was made known before the auction ended.

Honestly, that's an AMAZING amount to receive for any unsecured debt like this. That was a good auction, payb.tc. I wish Kluge the best of luck in profiting from this auction.

Now that your auction has ended I shall ask the question..... as I am quite interested in this hole lending/borrowing process for various reasons........ (Im not interested in borrowing)

Anyways if the fellow owes you like ~$10k and you know who he is etc etc why dont you go 'get' the money off him ?
I am confused by what seems to be going on.... no offence to anyone, I am new here.. and just observing... =)
 

not sure if you asking me or kluge, but i didn't go get the money off him because a) i didn't believe he physically had the money/assets to cover the debt, and b) it's a very long, very expensive flight just to turn up at someone's house with a mean look on my face... then what?

Now I am not saying you should do this (being a public forum) an all... But a stern threat usually gets the job done.
even if it costs you a few $$$ to get someone else to do it.  People with no assets/money etc etc manage to find a way to pay up if they have to.
First they tell you there sick, then next week there uncles neighbors cat died etc etc etc..

Again, I mean no disrespect in regards to the way you have handled it. I have 0 background knowledge of this specific case (or BTC loaning) so its easy for me to make comments hehe.. The auctioning it off part is a smart idea and could end up creating a few positives out of bad situations in the future which is good :)

Actually, you could sell this loan to one of those collection agents if I'm not wrong. Why no one has taken this route yet?

I was buying shakaru's debt on the forum, still am but wasn't interested in this particular auction. Probably should have been more interested :D 5.45%!

Justinm001, I hope you don't work with people regularly. Threatening people is a horrible way to conduct business with others and usually makes things worse.  With a debt this large, contact with the debtor and patience is key. You can't get money out of someone with no assets, threatening them to pay you what they don't have is just idiotic.

Shak's been pretty well-harassed, IMO. It's unpopular with other debt-holders, but I think it'd be quite reasonable at this point to settle for 10% of the total settlement debt. Unless he's leaving out a cache of 50 or so 7970s in his liquidation thread, the thread parting everything out is fairly irrelevant in paying off a significant portion of the debt. All it serves to do is provide a crushing sense of any future gains needing to go toward debts the lendee regrets. It can work with student loans if the student gets a job paying significantly more than the person would've earned otherwise, but I think you'd have a Hell of a time collecting from a student who has not effectively benefited from the loan.

Before I read the thread, I was hoping to get a few cards sent to me at a discount over my own purchase price, then call the debt settled. Seems extremely unlikely at this point. Liquid, if you're interested in buying, I'm interested in selling. The best offer I have now is 45BTC on half the debt I bought.

We discussed this and decided it wouldn't be fair to the other debt holders to do this, I thought about it myself.

If you are interested in selling the complete debt, I may be interested but it will not benefit you to sell it to me as I will not pay a premium on what you paid. If you just want out, PM me otherwise don't waste a PM on me :)

Oh shit, that was fast!