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Title: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Miner612 on April 05, 2012, 02:24:03 AM I DO NOT want to make my own. SO ... that being said. What is the best FPGA mining option? I hear ButterflyLabs "The Single" is great. But I do not want to wait 6 weeks to get them.
1 BTC bounty for help! Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Gomeler on April 05, 2012, 02:37:14 AM Icarus is no longer available. Who knows what Lancelot will be(maybe 4x Spartan lx150?) but I believe it will be announced in May. ZTEX is expensive per MH, same efficiency as Icarus, but has a warranty. The X6500 is a fair compromise between Icarus(in that it is available) and ZTEX(MH/$). All these are based on the same FPGAs so they achieve the same MH/W efficiencies.
BFL's Single is a great option in the MH/$ range and it bridges the gap between Spartan LX150 based boards and GPUs(at 10MH/W vs 20MH/W and 2MH/W for LX150 & GPU). The issue is who knows, if you order a single now, when you'll actually receive it and which revision you'll receive. Lastly, there is the issue of resale/reuse value. I think everyone agrees that the BFL Single is a bitcoin only box at the moment. Icarus could possibly be used as a dev board(people tout Icarus' IO pin count). I have no clue on ZTEX and it sounds like X6500 has a very low IO pin count. I might have missed a FPGA and the above is all my opinion on FPGAs. Some of it could be wrong. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Defkin on April 05, 2012, 03:25:39 AM You have not really given enough information for me to suggest a product.
Do you pay much for power, how many do you want to buy, would cooling and power supply be an issue if you planned on a large number of BFL. Are you looking short or long term? For me open source, power consumption along with a planned long term operation sold me on the Icarus and looking towards the Lancelot. If I was living in a cold climate next door to a hydro power station I would be shopping for GPUs still. Factors to consider:
Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: neo_rage on April 05, 2012, 07:10:28 AM BFL is the best, but very slow delivery and some buzz in deal.
Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: kakobrekla on April 05, 2012, 10:25:22 AM BFL Single:
X6500 Rev. 3:
ZTEX:
discontinued: Icarus:
Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: jamesg on April 05, 2012, 10:34:13 AM Let me phrase my answer this way....
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sRnpqzUpBDo/T2zV1UqJGJI/AAAAAAAAA2s/cMfrssfs-Ao/s720/IMG_0225.JPG Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: mrb on April 05, 2012, 11:49:43 AM Lastly, there is the issue of resale/reuse value. I think everyone agrees that the BFL Single is a bitcoin only box at the moment. Icarus could possibly be used as a dev board(people tout Icarus' IO pin count). I have no clue on ZTEX and it sounds like X6500 has a very low IO pin count. Ztex is the most general-purpose board, and the easiest to develop for. The company has been around for at least 3 years and publishes an SDK for their various FPGA boards: http://www.ztex.de/firmware-kit/ And their products have a 2-year warranty. IMHO, if you care about resale/reuse value, Ztex is the way to go. I do agree that, in small quantity, Ztex products are expensive. So, buy in bulk :) Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 05:21:27 PM I DO NOT want to make my own. SO ... that being said. What is the best FPGA mining option? I hear ButterflyLabs "The Single" is great. But I do not want to wait 6 weeks to get them. 1 BTC bounty for help! I can get you ~800MH/s@~40W boards for $1129 each US delivery $20 European delivery $80 shipped within three weeks with twelve months warranty maybe two years (would have to check that). The new company is going public very soon. This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: chungenhung on April 05, 2012, 06:59:19 PM i believe icarus is still available for bulk orders.
Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: fpgaminer on April 05, 2012, 10:34:48 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 10:36:30 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.These have heatsinks. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: jamesg on April 05, 2012, 10:37:51 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.These have heatsinks. These boards you are peddling are most certainly not the "cheapest in its class". You may want to get your facts straight. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 10:38:40 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.These have heatsinks. These boards you are peddling are most certainly not the "cheapest in its class". You may want to get your facts straight. Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: 1l1l11ll1l on April 05, 2012, 10:56:58 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.These have heatsinks. These boards you are peddling are most certainly not the "cheapest in its class". You may want to get your facts straight. Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: jamesg on April 05, 2012, 10:59:38 PM Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. Are you trying to say that 40w usage over 80w is a competitive advantage that is worth paying almost double for, it's not. Let's do some simple math..... .08kW * 745 hours * .11kWh == $6.55 / mo .04kW * 745 hours * .11kWh == $3.27 / mo So, according to your claims, it is worth paying an extra $530 to save $3.28 a month. It would take you over 13 YEARS to make back this extra money you are spending on the board. It only has a 1 year warranty......... Matthew, maybe you should try doing some of this math before you claim this magical board of yours is a better value than the BFL single. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:02:29 PM Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. Are you trying to say that 40w usage over 80w is a competitive advantage that is worth paying almost double for, it's not. Let's do some simple math..... .08kW * 745 hours * .11kWh == $6.55 / mo .04kW * 745 hours * .11kWh == $3.27 / mo So, according to your claims, it is worth paying an extra $530 to save $3.28 a month. It would take you over 13 YEARS to make back this extra money you are spending on the board. It only has a 1 year warranty......... Matthew, maybe you should try doing some of this math before you claim this magical board of yours is a better value than the BFL single. I pay £0.11185/$0.15kWh for electricity and they are lots of places that pay a lot more than that. Plus the extra warranty was worth it for me. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:07:11 PM Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. Are you trying to say that 40w usage over 80w is a competitive advantage that is worth paying almost double for, it's not. Let's do some simple math..... .08kW * 745 hours * .11kWh == $6.55 / mo .04kW * 745 hours * .11kWh == $3.27 / mo So, according to your claims, it is worth paying an extra $530 to save $3.28 a month. It would take you over 13 YEARS to make back this extra money you are spending on the board. It only has a 1 year warranty......... Matthew, maybe you should try doing some of this math before you claim this magical board of yours is a better value than the BFL single. I pay £0.11185/$0.15kWh for electricity and they are lots of places that pay a lot more than that. Plus the extra warranty was worth it for me. Plus I got feed up of waiting for my BFL. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Gomeler on April 05, 2012, 11:08:03 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.These have heatsinks. These boards you are peddling are most certainly not the "cheapest in its class". You may want to get your facts straight. Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. BFL's Single, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop, will take me 9.3 months to pay off at $0.11kWh. Your board, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop would take me 16 months to pay off. So, either box will be out of warranty by the time they pay themselves off. More importantly, for a few bucks more I could get a pair of BFL Singles. Also, the jump between GPU to general FPGA efficiency is massive. After that we are squabbling over a few bucks a month which at this point are a tiny fraction of the device's overall cost. It takes 98 months for the BFL Single to consume its original price in electricity. For comparison it takes 10 months for a 5830 to consume its original price in electricity. Until you start talking another jump like that then the differences in power between FPGAs are inconsequential for some of us. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:10:43 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.These have heatsinks. These boards you are peddling are most certainly not the "cheapest in its class". You may want to get your facts straight. Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. BFL's Single, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop, will take me 9.3 months to pay off at $0.11kWh. Your board, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop would take me 16 months to pay off. So, either box will be out of warranty by the time they pay themselves off. More importantly, for a few bucks more I could get a pair of BFL Singles. Also, the jump between GPU to general FPGA efficiency is massive. After that we are squabbling over a few bucks a month which at this point are a tiny fraction of the device's overall cost. It takes 98 months for the BFL Single to consume its original price in electricity. For comparison it takes 10 months for a 5830 to consume its original price in electricity. Until you start talking another jump like that then the differences in power between FPGAs are inconsequential for some of us. The warranty may be two years not sure tho I know its at least twelve months. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Gomeler on April 05, 2012, 11:12:34 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.These have heatsinks. These boards you are peddling are most certainly not the "cheapest in its class". You may want to get your facts straight. Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. BFL's Single, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop, will take me 9.3 months to pay off at $0.11kWh. Your board, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop would take me 16 months to pay off. So, either box will be out of warranty by the time they pay themselves off. More importantly, for a few bucks more I could get a pair of BFL Singles. Also, the jump between GPU to general FPGA efficiency is massive. After that we are squabbling over a few bucks a month which at this point are a tiny fraction of the device's overall cost. It takes 98 months for the BFL Single to consume its original price in electricity. For comparison it takes 10 months for a 5830 to consume its original price in electricity. Until you start talking another jump like that then the differences in power between FPGAs are inconsequential for some of us. The warranty may be two years not sure tho I know its at least twelve months. You've said that about a dozen times now. We get it. It may be two years. BFL may also ship in 4 to 6 weeks. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:12:44 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.These have heatsinks. These boards you are peddling are most certainly not the "cheapest in its class". You may want to get your facts straight. Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. BFL's Single, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop, will take me 9.3 months to pay off at $0.11kWh. Your board, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop would take me 16 months to pay off. So, either box will be out of warranty by the time they pay themselves off. More importantly, for a few bucks more I could get a pair of BFL Singles. Also, the jump between GPU to general FPGA efficiency is massive. After that we are squabbling over a few bucks a month which at this point are a tiny fraction of the device's overall cost. It takes 98 months for the BFL Single to consume its original price in electricity. For comparison it takes 10 months for a 5830 to consume its original price in electricity. Until you start talking another jump like that then the differences in power between FPGAs are inconsequential for some of us. The warranty may be two years not sure tho I know its at least twelve months. BFL warranty of only six months made me nervous plus I got feed up of waiting for it and purchased this board which is shipping by this Wednesday and batch #2 that I'm taking pre-orders for within three weeks. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:16:59 PM Quote This board is the cheapest in its class for hashing power, electrical efficiency and warranty the nearest competitor is two of the new x6500 FPGA boards and this works out cheaper. Two X6500's (without heatsink) (http://cablesaurus.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=58) would be 800MH/s@34.4W and $1130USD.These have heatsinks. These boards you are peddling are most certainly not the "cheapest in its class". You may want to get your facts straight. Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. BFL's Single, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop, will take me 9.3 months to pay off at $0.11kWh. Your board, at current rates and ignoring the reward drop would take me 16 months to pay off. So, either box will be out of warranty by the time they pay themselves off. More importantly, for a few bucks more I could get a pair of BFL Singles. Also, the jump between GPU to general FPGA efficiency is massive. After that we are squabbling over a few bucks a month which at this point are a tiny fraction of the device's overall cost. It takes 98 months for the BFL Single to consume its original price in electricity. For comparison it takes 10 months for a 5830 to consume its original price in electricity. Until you start talking another jump like that then the differences in power between FPGAs are inconsequential for some of us. The warranty may be two years not sure tho I know its at least twelve months. You've said that about a dozen times now. We get it. It may be two years. BFL may also ship in 4 to 6 weeks. There still shipping Decembers orders I got feed up of waiting after six weeks they said another four to six weeks so cancelled my order. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: jamesg on April 05, 2012, 11:20:20 PM There still shipping Decembers orders I got feed up of waiting after six weeks they said another four to six weeks so cancelled my order. Your impatience means you may never break even on your investment. Feels good, doesn't it. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:21:38 PM There still shipping Decembers orders I got feed up of waiting after six weeks they said another four to six weeks so cancelled my order. Your impatience means you may never break even on your investment. Feels good, doesn't it. Your just trolling now ::) Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: jamesg on April 05, 2012, 11:24:46 PM There still shipping Decembers orders I got feed up of waiting after six weeks they said another four to six weeks so cancelled my order. Your impatience means you may never break even on your investment. Feels good, doesn't it. Your just trolling now ::) Sorry if you think I am trolling. Let me say this another way. Your idea of a "good investment" is in fact one of the worst ones proposed on this thread. It seems that you are trying to make a quick buck off of false information. Basically, I'm calling you out on the notion that this new FPGA is somehow magically better because it has a longer warranty. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:28:34 PM There still shipping Decembers orders I got feed up of waiting after six weeks they said another four to six weeks so cancelled my order. Your impatience means you may never break even on your investment. Feels good, doesn't it. Your just trolling now ::) It seems that you are trying to make a quick buck off of false information. Basically, I'm calling you out on the notion that this new FPGA is somehow magically better because it has a longer warranty. What 1BTC commission pfft and its cheaper than its nearest competitor two of the new x6500 boards. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:36:37 PM There still shipping Decembers orders I got feed up of waiting after six weeks they said another four to six weeks so cancelled my order. Your impatience means you may never break even on your investment. Feels good, doesn't it. Your just trolling now ::) Sorry if you think I am trolling. Let me say this another way. Your idea of a "good investment" is in fact one of the worst ones proposed on this thread. It seems that you are trying to make a quick buck off of false information. Basically, I'm calling you out on the notion that this new FPGA is somehow magically better because it has a longer warranty. Then why is my GLBSE listed mining company RSM which the boards are for predicting the highest dividend for share price of any of the mining company's listed on the exchange. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Gomeler on April 05, 2012, 11:36:45 PM There still shipping Decembers orders I got feed up of waiting after six weeks they said another four to six weeks so cancelled my order. Your impatience means you may never break even on your investment. Feels good, doesn't it. Your just trolling now ::) It seems that you are trying to make a quick buck off of false information. Basically, I'm calling you out on the notion that this new FPGA is somehow magically better because it has a longer warranty. What 1BTC commission pfft and its cheaper than its nearest competitor two of the new x6500 boards. I think you are compromised on this due to personal interests in said device. Its competitors are FPGAs and GPUs and at this point it has longer pay-off times than most GPUs and some FPGAs. I suppose in the end the critical matter is whether you view bitcoin mining as a hobby or as a business. As a hobby, less than prudent financial decisions are acceptable. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:47:48 PM The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths
Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Gomeler on April 05, 2012, 11:50:13 PM The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths So, now it is no longer a maybe but a fact that this unicorn board has a two year warranty? I'm done arguing with you as clearly your board is the superior choice. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: jamesg on April 05, 2012, 11:52:16 PM Do the maths It is obvious that you math skills are far superior to mine. You win. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:52:30 PM The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths So, now it is no longer a maybe but a fact that this unicorn board has a two year warranty? I'm done arguing with you as clearly your board is the superior choice. I'm not arguing only defending my position and choice. I dislike this forum for all its trolling thats one of the reasons bitcoin.org no longer links to the forum. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:53:45 PM Do the maths It is obvious that you math skills are far superior to mine. You win. Studied Fourier Transforms and Matrix manipulation at Uni. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: matthewh3 on April 05, 2012, 11:54:59 PM Do the maths It is obvious that you math skills are far superior to mine. You win. Trolling again ::) Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Raize on April 06, 2012, 01:47:46 AM The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths Bitforce single: 830 megahash/second 80 watt Heatsink + Fan Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter Price: $599 + $34 shipping = $633 Icarus miner: (discontinued) 380 megahash/second 20 watt Heatsink + Fan Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594 x6500: 400 megahash/second 17.2 watt No Heatsink/No Fan Comes with no Power adapter or USB cable Price: $550 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping + $17.95 AC Adapter + $8.95 USB cable + ($20 Two Zalman FPGA heatsinks + $4.54 shipping) + ($2.49 90mm case fan + $6.29 shipping) = $623.62 Sources: http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-ZM-NBF47-Northbridge-Flower-Heatsink/dp/B000ZSBVK0 http://www.amazon.com/90mm-Case-3-Pin-Connector-Black/dp/B004OFXXX8/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333676747&sr=1-2 Did I do my "maths" right? Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: copumpkin on April 06, 2012, 03:22:39 AM Blah blah blah, blah blah. Blah! Did I do my "maths" right? I can't comment on the math (it's too hard for me) but some English-speaking countries do pluralize the word to "maths" :) Note however that watts / second is a unit of energy acceleration, which sounds terrifying! Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: triplehelix on April 06, 2012, 05:19:27 AM i don't think the premium justifies only the warranty, but i don't think its fair to discount an extended warranty completley. we have no idea how long bfl's will last, or what percentage will fail sooner than average due to manufacturing and/or design.
Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: bitlane on April 07, 2012, 10:48:04 AM Why which board is cheaper? edit: if you mean the BFL-Single that only has a six month warranty (this has a minimum of twelve months[maybe two years{I have to clear that up}]) and the BFL-Single operates at twice the wattage. As I said two of the new x6500 is its nearest competitor and this board works out cheaper. Are you trying to say that 40w usage over 80w is a competitive advantage that is worth paying almost double for, it's not. Let's do some simple math..... .08kW * 745 hours * .11kWh == $6.55 / mo .04kW * 745 hours * .11kWh == $3.27 / mo So, according to your claims, it is worth paying an extra $530 to save $3.28 a month. It would take you over 13 YEARS to make back this extra money you are spending on the board. It only has a 1 year warranty......... Matthew, maybe you should try doing some of this math before you claim this magical board of yours is a better value than the BFL single. All BS aside, BFL are doing nothing more than stimulating further market growth and development by giving everyone else a chance to catch up to their performance/$ thanks to their sub-standard delivery schedule. If they are smart enough to design their product, why are they not smart enough to realize that an immediate/ready to ship stock of 100+ Singles would likely sell out in a few days IF they made them available SOON...... Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Shadow383 on April 08, 2012, 02:03:21 AM Do the maths It is obvious that you math skills are far superior to mine. You win. Studied Fourier Transforms and Matrix manipulation at Uni. Right?... Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: cablepair on April 08, 2012, 03:51:58 AM I have no opinion on either side of this argument.
But one fact is 100% clear to me. Butterfly Labs Business Plan: Sell Units for what Appears to be an amazing Price Put a 4-5 week Shipping Time on Said Unit Extend that 4-6 week shipping time to 6-12 week Shipping time and Mine with Said Unit during the Duration of the Wait Period Now Said Unit Provides Amazing Profits (and what appears to be an amazing low price to buyer) ____________________ cash in I am awaiting for BFL singles myself and Like and Appreciate their Company myself but to say they are not mining on these units as part of their business / profitability plan is just plain denial Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Raize on April 09, 2012, 04:25:09 PM Note however that watts / second is a unit of energy acceleration, which sounds terrifying! Good point, fixed. About the "maths" comment, I was mostly emphasizing that matthew didn't appear to be doing the math on his own and realize just how little stuff the x6500 came with that the average miner was going to have to purchase or supply. It is weird to see mathematics shortened in such a manner, though. Of course, this is coming from a silly American. :P Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: bitlane on April 09, 2012, 10:30:36 PM I have no opinion on either side of this argument. But one fact is 100% clear to me. Butterfly Labs Business Plan: Sell Units for what Appears to be an amazing Price Put a 4-5 week Shipping Time on Said Unit Extend that 4-6 week shipping time to 6-12 week Shipping time and Mine with Said Unit during the Duration of the Wait Period Now Said Unit Provides Amazing Profits (and what appears to be an amazing low price to buyer) ____________________ cash in I am awaiting for BFL singles myself and Like and Appreciate their Company myself but to say they are not mining on these units as part of their business / profitability plan is just plain denial Holly Sheep Shit ! I never even thought about that...... Single TX Block Mystery Miner identified ? (I sure wish I would have read that thread now) Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: film2240 on April 09, 2012, 10:51:09 PM Maybe look at the Bitforce FPGA (the $599 model as it's cheap,gives more than 820+Mhash/s and only uses 80W power) if you have the budget for it (like I hope to)
Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: fizzisist on April 10, 2012, 09:40:51 AM The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths Bitforce single: 830 megahash/second 80 watt Heatsink + Fan Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter Price: $599 + $34 shipping = $633 Icarus miner: (discontinued) 380 megahash/second 20 watt Heatsink + Fan Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594 x6500: 400 megahash/second 17.2 watt No Heatsink/No Fan Comes with no Power adapter or USB cable Price: $550 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping + $17.95 AC Adapter + $8.95 USB cable + ($20 Two Zalman FPGA heatsinks + $4.54 shipping) + ($2.49 90mm case fan + $6.29 shipping) = $623.62 Sources: http://www.amazon.com/Zalman-ZM-NBF47-Northbridge-Flower-Heatsink/dp/B000ZSBVK0 http://www.amazon.com/90mm-Case-3-Pin-Connector-Black/dp/B004OFXXX8/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1333676747&sr=1-2 Did I do my "maths" right? Actually, the X6500 is $565 without heatsinks, and $580 with heatsinks, which include fans. The point of selling the X6500 as a bare bones unit is to make it as flexible as possible for people that want to figure out their own cooling and powering solution. This is especially important when buying multiple boards. Here's my own math, for two theoretical customers: Single board customer: X6500 with heatsinks (http://fpgamining.com/assets/images/x6500_rev3_angle_a_heatsinks.jpg) (ordered from Cablesaurus.com): $580 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping = $593.40 AC adapter: taken from an old router = $0 USB cable: who doesn't have millions of these? = $0 Total = $593.40 Multi-board customer: 10x X6500 with heatsinks (ordered directly from FPGA Mining LLC): $550 x10 + $60 shipping = $5540 380W ATX PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033): $45 + $4 shipping = $49 10-port USB hub (http://www.amazon.com/GTMax-Black-Port-High-Speed/dp/B004Z31H3W/): $11 + $3 shipping = $14 10x USB cables (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812270121): $2.32 x10 = $23 Total = $5626 or $562.60 per board Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Raize on April 15, 2012, 05:27:52 PM Actually, the X6500 is $565 without heatsinks, and $580 with heatsinks, which include fans. The point of selling the X6500 as a bare bones unit is to make it as flexible as possible for people that want to figure out their own cooling and powering solution. This is especially important when buying multiple boards. Here's my own math, for two theoretical customers: Single board customer: X6500 with heatsinks (http://fpgamining.com/assets/images/x6500_rev3_angle_a_heatsinks.jpg) (ordered from Cablesaurus.com): $580 + $7.90 mandatory insurance + $5.50 shipping = $593.40 AC adapter: taken from an old router = $0 USB cable: who doesn't have millions of these? = $0 Total = $593.40 Multi-board customer: 10x X6500 with heatsinks (ordered directly from FPGA Mining LLC): $550 x10 + $60 shipping = $5540 380W ATX PSU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371033): $45 + $4 shipping = $49 10-port USB hub (http://www.amazon.com/GTMax-Black-Port-High-Speed/dp/B004Z31H3W/): $11 + $3 shipping = $14 10x USB cables (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812270121): $2.32 x10 = $23 Total = $5626 or $562.60 per board Faire enough. I just didn't like the "holier than thou" attitude he had regarding them. You're right, the 6500 is an option for people that may want to look into powering via a power supply and may have their own usb cables/hub around for doing what they need. To each their own, for sure. We definitely have a multitude of options available to us, and more all the time it looks like! Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: newMeat1 on April 19, 2012, 04:13:53 PM With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin.
Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: nedbert9 on April 19, 2012, 06:04:47 PM With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin. Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips. Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: rjk on April 19, 2012, 07:45:54 PM With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin. Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips. Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: DeathAndTaxes on April 19, 2012, 07:58:42 PM Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip. Unlikely. I am pretty certain of the chip they are using and without special pricing you are looking at $1400 for a pair of them. Obviously BFL found a sweet deal and congrats to them but simply knowing the chip doesn't help you a whole lot. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Inspector 2211 on April 19, 2012, 09:20:10 PM I now think the BFL chip is either:
- A custom-designed "super" FPGA, whose functional units have a bigger granularity than standard Xilinx/Altera FPGAs. Instead of "1 bit adder" think "8 bit adder". or - An array processor, for instance 32x32 (just making this up) 32-bit mini-CPUs. According to their own words, they stumbled into Bitcoin mining, their original idea was supercomputing / cryptography applications. In other words, I think they built an ASIC first and then stumbled into Bitcoin mining as their first volume application. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: mrb on April 21, 2012, 06:37:45 AM With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin. Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips. Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip. BFL's chip was identified. It is a Stratix III EP3SL200 or EP3SE260: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53530.msg720365#msg720365 Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Cablez on April 21, 2012, 01:41:20 PM With the massive amounts of money that are going into mining hardware right now, I wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. If you do, BFL is the most profitable option by a wide margin. Hard to believe the BTC community hasn't identified BFL's chips. Open solutions are stuck at poor profitability due to not being able to identify, IMO, what is a commodity chip. BFL's chip was identified. It is a Stratix III EP3SL200 or EP3SE260: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=53530.msg720365#msg720365 Was this ever confirmed from another person working with Stratix chips? I am not saying he's wrong but I was hoping there would have been a followup wave from other engineers confirming or denying such. I myself can only take this at face value. :-\ Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: MXRider on April 23, 2012, 01:10:57 PM Back to the topic what is the best FPGA unit to buy?
For me it's ZTEX 1.15y. I can get them very soon and they know what they are doing. BFL says MiniRig ships in 12-15weeks and I have to pay in advance. It's probably 20weeks. Even if it's 12 weeks (not going to happen) I still can't buy anything from a company that doesn't even update their website or reveal their business license, names etc. Good luck for everyone who already have their Singles. I envy you but ordering Single right now is stupid. ZTEX has a 2 year warranty. I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Raize on April 23, 2012, 04:47:19 PM ZTEX has a 2 year warranty. I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line. While I don't disagree with your logic, here's the problem the rest of us have given your logic. Why even mine when we can just buy coin and when the difficulty increases and more and more current GPU miners don't get as much coin the price rises to compensate? I mean, we've seen the price of BTC hit a low in November/December of last year around $2, burst to $7, then now fall back down to $4 range and slowly but very gradually increase along with the difficulty. Does anyone really think that someone who owns hundreds of thousands of BTC is looking at the gradual increase and thinking it'd be a good idea to sell if they don't need it? I think we're seeing the "hoarder effect", that is, there are always going to be some miners that refuse to sell any of their mined coin, even to recoup their investments. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: bulanula on April 23, 2012, 08:32:31 PM Back to the topic what is the best FPGA unit to buy? For me it's ZTEX 1.15y. I can get them very soon and they know what they are doing. BFL says MiniRig ships in 12-15weeks and I have to pay in advance. It's probably 20weeks. Even if it's 12 weeks (not going to happen) I still can't buy anything from a company that doesn't even update their website or reveal their business license, names etc. Good luck for everyone who already have their Singles. I envy you but ordering Single right now is stupid. ZTEX has a 2 year warranty. I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line. Why is ordering a single right now stupid ? You think they are going to run away with the $$$ after they gained some reputation by selling the first batches at a loss ??? That is highly unlikely IMHO. $20K is nothing for a business like BFL. I think they have a chance of making more money in the long run being legit than running now with your pocket change ! Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: BR0KK on April 24, 2012, 01:23:28 PM For me it's defenetly Ztex 1.15y boards.... The two years Warranty, the good support by them and the availability is what I like to pay for.
Someday when I have a few BTC left I comsider buying one of those BFL Singles, just to get hands on ;) Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: MXRider on April 24, 2012, 05:58:32 PM Back to the topic what is the best FPGA unit to buy? For me it's ZTEX 1.15y. I can get them very soon and they know what they are doing. BFL says MiniRig ships in 12-15weeks and I have to pay in advance. It's probably 20weeks. Even if it's 12 weeks (not going to happen) I still can't buy anything from a company that doesn't even update their website or reveal their business license, names etc. Good luck for everyone who already have their Singles. I envy you but ordering Single right now is stupid. ZTEX has a 2 year warranty. I can get ZTEX 2-3 months sooner than BFL MiniRig. During those 2,5 months I have mined the price difference. And the most important thing to me: I do not have to wait FOUR MONTHS with almost 20k$ on the line. Why is ordering a single right now stupid ? You think they are going to run away with the $$$ after they gained some reputation by selling the first batches at a loss ??? That is highly unlikely IMHO. $20K is nothing for a business like BFL. I think they have a chance of making more money in the long run being legit than running now with your pocket change ! I'm not afraid to be scammed although they could update their website more often and give some real details about their company. In Europe companies has to put their business license number on their website. Let's forget all the fishiness and focus on the FPGA. I can mine the price difference in four months with ZTEX board so I don't see why anyone would want to buy a single. This is assuming one would participate in a bulk order. $20k is too much for me. I don't want to wait four months. I will order some Singles/MiniRig from BFL when the lead times are better and true. Right now it's not a good option, at least not for me. Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: tidus_13 on April 24, 2012, 10:40:38 PM The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths Icarus miner: (discontinued) 380 megahash/second 20 watt Heatsink + Fan Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594 Did I do my "maths" right? Icarus is avaible for bulk of 30 at 469$ each one Title: Re: 1 BTC bounty --- What is the best FPGA unit to buy? Post by: Jaryu on April 27, 2012, 04:09:37 AM The board should take 16 months to pay off at today difficulty and exchange rates leaving eight months within warranty of guaranteed profit. The BFL-Single would take over eight months to pay off but with only six months warranty. Do the maths Icarus miner: (discontinued) 380 megahash/second 20 watt Heatsink + Fan Comes with everything included: USB cable, Power adapter Price: $569 + $25 shipping = $594 Did I do my "maths" right? Icarus is avaible for bulk of 30 at 469$ each one last I checked the last bulk order was over and done a while back on the icarus. I asked him to post a teaser of the Lancelot specs but he said we had to wait a little while longer. |
