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Title: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: dedcoin on August 30, 2014, 11:45:53 AM We should try to increase our usage of BTC, in our daily transactions. It is the only way we can really come to trust this new technology and dump CCs.
Random idea: On your next purchase on an e-commerce website accepting btc, buy bitcoins and use them instantly. Like a reverse bitpay. What do you think of it as an actual business? Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: alexeft on August 30, 2014, 12:21:27 PM We should try to increase our usage of BTC, in our daily transactions. It is the only way we can really come to trust this new technology and dump CCs. Random idea: On your next purchase on an e-commerce website accepting btc, buy bitcoins and use them instantly. Like a reverse bitpay. What do you think of it as an actual business? Ouf!!! Only letting people what's in their best interest will let us know if bitcoin continues to be successful or not. For the time being, it is! Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: dedcoin on August 30, 2014, 12:32:04 PM Only letting people what's in their best interest will let us know if bitcoin continues to be successful or not. You are then using the very effective phrase : "Believe me, I am an engineer" How about being the cool kid using the cool tech. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: fa on August 30, 2014, 12:38:50 PM hoarders are also users, or at least potential users. Even for hoarders, BTC being bought and dumped b
by them are btc being used after all, right? Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: oda.krell on August 30, 2014, 12:50:10 PM Partially true, partially wrong, OP.
I think it was user Rampion who phrased it something like "the long-term holders are the ones who provide the price foundation of BTC, and the shorter-term investors - and I would add: users - are those who, once in a while, are the primary force behind another 'growth spurt' to the next price level." Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: dedcoin on August 30, 2014, 12:50:33 PM hoarders are also users, or at least potential users. Even for hoarders, BTC being bought and dumped b by them are btc being used after all, right? Not at all. It's like Forex vs real life :: Speculation vs real value. Trading on an exchange and using BTC daily is very different. The volume will be extremely organic and healthy. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: dedcoin on August 30, 2014, 12:55:39 PM Partially true, partially wrong, OP. I think it was user Rampion who phrased it something like "the long-term holders are the ones who provide the price foundation of BTC, and the shorter-term investors - and I would add: users - are those who once in a while primarily drive the 'growth spurts' to the next price level." I think hoarders are using BTC as store of value (at best). But it's at their own risk. Cause it might also fail. What I am proposing is a win-win situation. Using BTC will only make it stronger and more spread. Ultimately, merchants will keep BTC instead of dumping it immediately. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: oda.krell on August 30, 2014, 01:06:40 PM Partially true, partially wrong, OP. I think it was user Rampion who phrased it something like "the long-term holders are the ones who provide the price foundation of BTC, and the shorter-term investors - and I would add: users - are those who once in a while primarily drive the 'growth spurts' to the next price level." I think hoarders are using BTC as store of value (at best). But it's at their own risk. Cause it might also fail. What I am proposing is a win-win situation. Using BTC will only make it stronger and more spread. Ultimately, merchants will keep BTC instead of dumping it immediately. I don't disagree with you on that: we need adoption (both by buyers and sellers) to grow, otherwise, it's mainly speculation. But I added two points to that: a) holders are users as well, using btc as a store of wealth, and b) because of their reluctance to sell, their participation provides a price/market cap floor (which is useful as well). tl;dr Use Bitcoin for transactions/e-commerce as much as possible, but let's not demonize holders either. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: dedcoin on August 30, 2014, 01:20:10 PM tl;dr Use Bitcoin for transactions/e-commerce as much as possible, but let's not demonize holders either. That's not my message. I just would like the medium to large holders to spend regularly whatever small % and replenish. That would easily double the volume. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: gentlemand on August 30, 2014, 01:42:15 PM I'd love to be paying for everything in BTC. That's mainly a luxury for US residents though.
In the UK there are some merchants and a few gift cards etc but nothing like coinbase so replacing the coin you spend can add a beefy premium to any transaction. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: Wilhelm on August 30, 2014, 01:43:44 PM I know a guy who bought a Pizza once ... it cost him $5M :D
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: onlyu on August 30, 2014, 01:46:39 PM We should try to increase our usage of BTC, in our daily transactions. It is the only way we can really come to trust this new technology and dump CCs. Random idea: On your next purchase on an e-commerce website accepting btc, buy bitcoins and use them instantly. Like a reverse bitpay. What do you think of it as an actual business? The process you describe: Convert fiat to bitcoin -> use bitcoin to pay merchant -> merchant convert bitcoin back to fiat. Wouldn't it be cheaper to use credit card and dwolla ? Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: oda.krell on August 30, 2014, 01:48:27 PM tl;dr Use Bitcoin for transactions/e-commerce as much as possible, but let's not demonize holders either. That's not my message. I just would like the medium to large holders to spend regularly whatever small % and replenish. That would easily double the volume. Well, there's a chance that's not going to happen. If you were an early adopter, as in: you got your coins really cheap, spending a non-trivial percentage of your current USD worth held in BTC might not be easily replaceable, ergo: some/many of the long-term very bullish holders won't do it. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: NotLambchop on August 30, 2014, 01:51:31 PM tl;dr Use Bitcoin for transactions/e-commerce as much as possible, but let's not demonize holders either. That's not my message. I just would like the medium to large holders to spend regularly whatever small % and replenish. That would easily double the volume. You're talking about Velocity_of_money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money). It's a can of worms... Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: piramida on August 30, 2014, 02:23:25 PM We should try to increase our usage of BTC, in our daily transactions. It is the only way we can really come to trust this new technology and dump CCs. Random idea: On your next purchase on an e-commerce website accepting btc, buy bitcoins and use them instantly. Like a reverse bitpay. What do you think of it as an actual business? I think it goes without saying that every bitcoin "hoarder" seeks merchants accepting bitcoin and uses bitcoin wherever possible. But artificially trying to increase volume? That will never work. Just have patience, it will all come. As for buyback feature, check out coinbase, they offer you to refill your spent bitcoins when you've completed BTC purchase. Probably others do that as well. But I still think it is silly, because I spend bitcoin when it is expensive or stable, and buy in bulk cheaply when everybody panics for some new stupid reason. That gives me an actual and quite significant discount when buying things with bitcoin. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: arbitrage001 on August 30, 2014, 03:21:23 PM To keep the value artificial high, we need hoarders.
To expand the market and increase merchant adoption, we need spender and consumer. Increasing usage might not be good for speculator as merchant usually do not hold the coin and sell right away. Hence depressing the price. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: notme on August 30, 2014, 03:31:14 PM I know a guy who bought a Pizza once ... it cost him $5M :D It was 2 pizzas :P Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: ensurance982 on August 30, 2014, 04:57:20 PM Well, I agree to a certain extent, we need an increasing usage in order to attract new merchants and spread the word in general! Bitcoin needs to be used more! BUT: Many people claim that an increased spending of Bitcoin will push the price down, because most merchants are using services like BitPay that immediately convert the BTC to FIAT again...
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: falllling on August 30, 2014, 05:05:36 PM Well, I agree to a certain extent, we need an increasing usage in order to attract new merchants and spread the word in general! Bitcoin needs to be used more! BUT: Many people claim that an increased spending of Bitcoin will push the price down, because most merchants are using services like BitPay that immediately convert the BTC to FIAT again... Bitcoin price recently has tried more than three times to break out but all failed, this showing the general market think bitcoin is over-price & over-value & should go down If we don't go up soon then some big dumps can be expected, just like the last long sideways which crashed after failed to touch $620 This time bitcoin is going to flash crash down to $1xx - $2xx, however back up again is possible in the long term (may be 2016-2017) Winklevoss ETF will actually be shot down GABI is already priced in Dubai exchange won't create any thing new Let's talk straight: Bitcoin has tried it's best to break out but all failed, people are getting out and no one with a college degree will invest any serious sums into bitcoin after MTGOX fiasco, The market is currently only a playground for gamblers and fanatics Bitcoin is just like a ponzie pyramid schame today, your fund invested in bitcoin are vanishing because early adopters / merchants are selling / spending / cashing out them very hard (you saw all those " xxx accepted bitcoin" news, most bitcoins accepted are sold right away means your fund has been transferred to the merchants,Convert fiat to bitcoin -> use bitcoin to pay merchant -> merchant convert bitcoin back to fiat), Only who bought lower than you will sell/use the coins, same as you want more people to buy the price higher than your bought price so you can grab their money and get rich just like a ponzie schame. The question is people are getting out, no one is buying your coins, what you left at the end are worthless digital numbers Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: ensurance982 on August 30, 2014, 05:16:37 PM falllling, I'm honestly interested in the following: Have you ever been pro Bitcoin? When did you learn about Bitcoin? When did your sentiment change (if it was bullish at some point) And what would need to happen for you to change your sentiment again?
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: Wilhelm on August 30, 2014, 05:16:49 PM Well, I agree to a certain extent, we need an increasing usage in order to attract new merchants and spread the word in general! Bitcoin needs to be used more! BUT: Many people claim that an increased spending of Bitcoin will push the price down, because most merchants are using services like BitPay that immediately convert the BTC to FIAT again... Bitcoin price recently has tried more than three times to break out but all failed, this showing the general market think bitcoin is over-price & over-value & should go down If we don't go up soon then some big dumps can be expected, just like the last long sideways which crashed after failed to touch $620 This time bitcoin is going to flash crash down to $1xx - $2xx, however back up again is possible in the long term (may be 2016-2017) Winklevoss ETF will actually be shot down GABI is already priced in Dubai exchange won't create any thing new Let's talk straight: Bitcoin has tried it's best to break out but all failed, people are getting out and no one with a college degree will invest any serious sums into bitcoin after MTGOX fiasco, The market is currently only a playground for gamblers and fanatics Bitcoin is just like a ponzie pyramid schame today, your fund invested in bitcoin are vanishing because early adopters / merchants are selling / spending / cashing out them very hard (you saw all those " xxx accepted bitcoin" news, most bitcoins accepted are sold right away means your fund has been transferred to the merchants,Convert fiat to bitcoin -> use bitcoin to pay merchant -> merchant convert bitcoin back to fiat), Only who bought lower than you will sell/use the coins, same as you want more people to buy the price higher than your bought price so you can grab their money and get rich just like a ponzie schame. The question is people are getting out, no one is buying your coins, what you left at the end are worthless digital numbers TROLLING 101: Lesson-1: Quoting yourself Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: BANK RUN on August 30, 2014, 05:55:11 PM I agree with the OP, "BTC Needs users not hoarders"
My moto, "Do like I say not like I do" Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: foggyb on August 30, 2014, 06:28:27 PM Bitcoin price recently has tried more than three times to break out but all failed, this showing the general market think bitcoin is over-price & over-value & should go down If we don't go up soon then some big dumps can be expected, just like the last long sideways which crashed after failed to touch $620 This time bitcoin is going to flash crash down to $1xx - $2xx, however back up again is possible in the long term (may be 2016-2017) Why don't you go ahead and quote yourself in every current ongoing thread? It seems like a sales pitch, you're selling us something. Something smelly. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: minerpumpkin on August 30, 2014, 06:39:01 PM Yes, we need to "spread the word" in order to get the rate of adoption higher! For that we need more companies that accept Bitcoin and thus create possibilities for people to spend their bitcoin. Also, the mere acceptance of Bitcoin will get more people into the ecosystem!
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: JimboToronto on August 30, 2014, 08:24:36 PM BTC Needs users and not ftfy Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: Ibian on August 30, 2014, 08:45:28 PM Screw you buddy. I will keep my savings in whatever form I want. None of your votes are applicable with the chosen wording fyi.
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: JimboToronto on August 30, 2014, 09:00:50 PM I will keep my savings in whatever form I want. +1OP seems to forget that using Bitcoin for savings is a still using them, or does he advocate spending all one's money as fast as it's accumulated and not saving any? My "hoarded" bitcoins are no more an investment than the little bit of fiat in my bank account, the nickels, dimes and toonies in my pocket or the credits I maintain in my utility accounts. They're just savings that will eventually be spent. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: CryptoCarmen on August 30, 2014, 09:16:51 PM We should try to increase our usage of BTC, in our daily transactions. It is the only way we can really come to trust this new technology and dump CCs. Random idea: On your next purchase on an e-commerce website accepting btc, buy bitcoins and use them instantly. Like a reverse bitpay. What do you think of it as an actual business? Because of low inflation BTC will always attract much more hoarders then users. In few years time almost everyone will heard of Bitcoin, but believe me they wil rather use some other and just hoard BTC. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: btcformat on August 30, 2014, 09:18:46 PM I would not buy anything with a big value nowadays just because the bitcoin will be priced more in the future.
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: minerpumpkin on August 30, 2014, 09:52:54 PM I would not buy anything with a big value nowadays just because the bitcoin will be priced more in the future. With Bitcoin or with FIAT money? If you're worried to spend your BTC holdings just because they may be worth more, why not instantly re-buy the same amount of BTC and still pay using BTC and thus supporting the ecosystem? Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: JimboToronto on August 31, 2014, 12:52:54 AM why not instantly re-buy the same amount of BTC and still pay using BTC and thus supporting the ecosystem? Or simply instantly convert revenues to Bitcoin and then buy fiat, goods and services as required. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: johnyj on August 31, 2014, 03:30:46 AM Bitcoin is just like a Ponzi pyramid scheme today, your fund invested in bitcoin are vanishing because early adopters / merchants are selling / spending / cashing out them very hard (you saw all those " xxx accepted bitcoin" news, most bitcoins accepted are sold right away means your fund has been transferred to the merchants,Convert fiat to bitcoin -> use bitcoin to pay merchant -> merchant convert bitcoin back to fiat) Only who bought lower than you will sell/use the coins, same as you want more people to buy the price higher than your bought price so you can grab their money and get rich just like a Ponzi scheme The question is people are getting out, no one is buying your coins, what you left at the end are worthless digital numbers The Ponzi scheme metaphor applies to any kind of investment: Stocks, funds, real estate, etc... the only way you can profit from an investment is to sell your cheaply purchased goods at a higher price to the next guy, this even applies to normal business, where you purchase cheap raw materials and make expensive products I marked the "money" as red in your quotes, it seems that people unconsciously regard fiat money as money. Most of the people have this misconception just because they have been used to this idea since they were born, not because that fiat money indeed has any value. This is similar to: Everyone believe that sun goes around earth since they were children, until the day they were educated about the solar system In fact, those paper are the biggest Ponzi scheme (Central bank produce money extremely cheap and dump it to people in exchange for expensive things, and they have exclusive right to do it, it is a monopole Ponzi) Bitcoin is not Ponzi because of its manufacturing cost, as long as the money has a manufacturing cost, it is a normal business activity, its price is purely decided by market demand, while fiat money's price is arbitrary decided by the central bank Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: master sato on August 31, 2014, 03:31:53 AM I believe a time will come when people see Bitcoin as Gold 2.0. It will take time, but slowly, all will come to see it's financial benefits. Then, a day will come when there is a lot of panic buying. I look forward to that day
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: JimboToronto on August 31, 2014, 03:42:33 AM blah, blah... troll BS... blah, blah... Ponzi... blah, blah... **rational response*** You're wasting your breath trying to talk sense to Faiiiiling. He's on many people's ignore lists because he's a troll spammer. Anyone with a brain knows that Bitcoin's not a Ponzi scam. He's just trying to get a rise out of anyone who'll bite the bait. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: Bitcopia on August 31, 2014, 05:38:35 AM Purse.io (http://Purse.io) gets most of my BTC business. I consistently get 20 - 25% off all of my amazon purchases. You should really try it if you haven"t already.
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: Ibian on August 31, 2014, 07:27:24 AM Purse.io (http://Purse.io) gets most of my BTC business. I consistently get 20 - 25% off all of my amazon purchases. You should really try it if you haven"t already. Do they let non-US people use it?Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: jjacob on August 31, 2014, 11:00:09 AM We need all kinds of people in the bitcoin ecosystem - hoarders, spenders, day traders, even people like falllin, :)
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: dedcoin on August 31, 2014, 11:32:11 AM Purse.io (http://Purse.io) gets most of my BTC business. I consistently get 20 - 25% off all of my amazon purchases. You should really try it if you haven"t already. Thats what am talking about!!! Is it legit? Why not buy bitcoins before a purchase that you'd normally do in fiat.. and get a discount as a plus .. Waw I am not asking anyone to depart from their btc just use an replenish instantly Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: oda.krell on August 31, 2014, 12:03:39 PM Purse.io (http://Purse.io) gets most of my BTC business. I consistently get 20 - 25% off all of my amazon purchases. You should really try it if you haven"t already. Never heard of them before, but: that's a very smart system. Thanks for the heads up. I'll read into it to find out if I consider them fully trustworthy. If that's the case, I think I'll use this regularly in the future. EDIT: hm. just realized, this probably only works with amazon.COM, so shipping limitations (e.g. to Europe) might apply. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: giveBTCpls on September 07, 2014, 12:02:26 AM The problem with this is 99% percentes, aka most average joes can't really risk their FIAT to buy stuff with BTC. We'll need bigger merchant adoption and more stability and more importantly better wallet and faster smoother behaviour of the software for it to reach a status where people make their daily expenses with BTC mostly. In fact even in the future it may still be seen as a legit store of value like gold rather than an actual currency. We'll see.
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: IMZ on September 07, 2014, 12:53:39 AM Guys, my mob -- IndiaMikeZulu -- is perhaps unique. We spent nearly a year in self-funded 'on-da-street' crypto development, and have loads and loads of suggestions for anyone who cares to contact us. (For example, we are just two hobbyists, but we offered the world's third fiat-crypto service, selling Yacoin, in $Aus., via Internet-banking transfers from Yacoinaustralia, last year. Only ever a few sales, but no one else was doing anything like it!)
At present, we have returned to trading -- the development work drained our meagre resources -- but we are running 'Un-Ex,' an experiment in crypto-bullion sales on a national basis (Australia). PM me anytime. Mark, Western Australia Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: itsAj on September 07, 2014, 04:32:25 AM The problem with this is 99% percentes, aka most average joes can't really risk their FIAT to buy stuff with BTC. We'll need bigger merchant adoption and more stability and more importantly better wallet and faster smoother behaviour of the software for it to reach a status where people make their daily expenses with BTC mostly. In fact even in the future it may still be seen as a legit store of value like gold rather than an actual currency. We'll see. If consumers were to use their fiat to buy bitcoin that would then be used to spend at various merchants that accept bitcoin, then what is the difference? The answer is there is none. Consumers would essentially be spending the same amount of wealth/money, however the merchant would incur less costs in accepting the bitcoin so over time they would likely charge less for bitcoin paying customers. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: jjacob on September 07, 2014, 09:14:03 AM The problem with this is 99% percentes, aka most average joes can't really risk their FIAT to buy stuff with BTC. Where is the risk in buying stuff with Bitcoins? Of course, you will have to shop at established sites. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: ShintoshiBTC on September 09, 2014, 12:19:26 PM The problem with this is 99% percentes, aka most average joes can't really risk their FIAT to buy stuff with BTC. Where is the risk in buying stuff with Bitcoins? Of course, you will have to shop at established sites. Like what for example? Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: BigGameCAsino on September 10, 2014, 01:55:38 PM The problem with this is 99% percentes, aka most average joes can't really risk their FIAT to buy stuff with BTC. Where is the risk in buying stuff with Bitcoins? Of course, you will have to shop at established sites. Like what for example? Check the market place.. You can get information there. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: cubanos on September 16, 2014, 08:25:32 AM Others doesnt need to use it. Most of us here hoards more than they use it. Especially the "not so rich" bitcoin enthusiasts. This might be our escape from poverty.
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: JetLi on September 16, 2014, 09:24:56 AM "BTC Needs hoarders and not users" can be just as true because if a bitcoiner decides to buy a compu from Dell with btc then Dell will dump those coins for fiat.
Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: giveBTCpls on September 16, 2014, 05:55:55 PM it is important to use Bitcoins in addition to holding Bitcoins. The more robust the actual trade in products and services for Bitcoins becomes, the stronger Bitcoins become as a real and valued currency.
So, do print off that cold storage wallet and know that you are participating in a revolution. But, please keep a small amount of liquid Bitcoins that you spend on services and products. Title: Re: BTC Needs users and not hoarders Post by: lamaze on September 18, 2014, 07:14:45 AM So what do you think is the percentage of hoarders and users in bitcointalk alone?
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