Bitcoin Forum

Apple signs up credit-card companies for NFC payments


Apple has reportedly struck a deal with American Express, MasterCard and Visa to bring NFC mobile payments to the iPhone 6.
The agreements between Apple and the credit-card companies will be officially announced next week alongside the iPhone 6, iPhone 6L, next iPad and, possibly, the iWatch, according to Bloomberg.
According to Bloomberg's source, the inclusion of the NFC chip in the next iPhone and improvements in its Touch ID fingerprint scanner "will allow consumers to securely pay for items in a store with the touch of a finger".
Re/code separately reported the deal with American Express, while The Information claimed a deal had been signed with Visa back in July.
Fourth time lucky?
Of course, this isn't the first time NFC payment rumours have attached themselves to an iPhone launch. Speculation that Apple will adopt the technology has been rife since the 4S, but as yet nothing has materialised.
In 2011, the company introduced its own rival iBeacon technology and, when the iPhone 5 was launched, Phil Schiller, SVP at Apple, categorically ruled out NFC, telling AllThingsD the company's own Passbook system "does the kinds of things customers need today".
However, in the three years since its launch, iBeacon support by third parties has been slow to take off, which may have prompted Apple to adopt NFC alongside its own technology.


http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/390496/apple-signs-up-credit-card-companies-for-nfc-payments#ixzz3C3wEFGRU

What do you think?

How will this be the death of bitcoins? Mobile payments and cryptocurrencies are two different things. Crypto will live on regardless of this.

Why are you saying its death of bitcoins? Bitcoin is alive and well. I think they are on a brink of a deal with paypal and ebay. Theyre getting the masses.

There's already a thread about it:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=764394.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=764394.0)


No real threat to bitcoin imho

they wasn't accepting bitcoin long time ago, who care about apple now, they are out of the game anyway

This will change nothing. It still costs a lot to use/accept credit cards. The fact that the fraud costs will go down a little (nfc is harder to clone) will not substantially change this equation

I don't see bitcoiners switching to mobile payments on i-phone 6.  :)

Good way to reduce identity fraud and at the same time making iphone a pos.

If the fee is low enough, it will negate all the benefits btc has,

Adding NFC to iPhone has nothing to do with Bitcoin. Bitcoin is doing well with or without Apple.

Convenient transactions are not Bitcoin's forte. Bitcoin is never going to be able to compete with something like this anyway so this doesn't change much. Bitcoin will probably end up more like digital gold at best.

Was reading about this earlier on a news website I frequent and to be honest I do not see any major problem with this neither do I see it affecting bitcoin in a bad way as these are two completely different things.

The costs of processing these kinds of transactions would be the same as processing any other credit card transaction. So why would the fee to the merchant be less? Hint: I wont be.

Please explain how will this negate decentralisation, trust-less, transparency, full control of your funds, ability to send anywhere in the world.

The only effect I see this having on bitcoin is maybe people will be more inclined to use their phone for payments.  Should be a small step from whatever Apple has them use to using a bitcoin wallet on their phone.  So mostly a non-issue, maybe a small benefit.

I hope they succeed Google Wallet.  That was a big failure

If you have a credit card then you do not need decentralisation, same with controlling your funds because the credit card company is actually lending you money. You can generally use a credit card anywhere in the world. If you pay in bitcoin then you will need to trust the merchant you are buying from as you cannot reverse the transaction.

The main selling point that bitcoin has above credit cards is the cost of accepting/processing credit cards. Since the cost is lower when paying in bitcoin, merchants are likely to pass along these savings to the consumer.

Apple has nothing to do with it

If credit cards are integrated to iphone, would it be possible to make an application that could be used to buy bitcoins instantly with your phone?

what does this even have to do with bitcoin?

Well if for example some merchant would accept bitcoins, that most people don't have access to, it would be nice to buy some btc first with your cellphone and then pay for the merchant. Other option might be to pay your friend with BTC that you can aquire instantly.

One of the biggest obstacles in BTC adoption is that it is too slow and difficult to obtain.

On the other hand, if two people have an iphone that can send funds to eachother, then who cares about BTC really... but what if the other phone would be android?

I don't think you understand the importance of BTC being decentralised and trust less. Long story short, if you trust banks/credit card companies/financial institutions more than you trust yourself, then yes, the main benefit for you would be low tx fees.

If you use a credit card to make a purchase the bank is trusting you with their money, not the other way around. You don't need to trust the bank in any way by paying via a credit card as you have the ability to make your payment in cash, and if they say you owe more then you really do then you can not pay the bill.

What money?? The one they've created out of thin air, but are secured against your income/assets, often with changeable %rates?
Are you saying that it's better to take a loan to buy something than use the funds you own (since it's "trust less" and bank take all the risk)?

But.. it's still in the ever falling Fiat currencies.

so basically just linking your idevices to credit card and paying through there??? I think this is basically same as paypal or the mobile card swipers allowing anyone to take credit card payment from cell phone (except a step up)..... not sure if it will effect bitcoin or not

Apple should use bitcoin for this instead, it would be better...

I think one day a BTC revolution will come and all the 7/11s starbucks subways mcdonalds and alll these other corporate chain stores will soon take bitcoin at their counters, but until that day i dont think many people unless they are somewhat techy nerds/drug addicts/gambling addicts will even have a clue what bitcoins is... i dunno maybe im being prejuidice against the btc community but i know i fall in those categories

+1 I want to say the same thing !  :)
BTW, this is the worst title ever encountered on the forum.

What?Unrelated topic heading and post.Bitcoin is not gonna die eventually if it dies too.They have to seize every single coin from users around the world.Fuck me if that's even possible so easily

Bitcoin isn't dead now and won't be dead in the near future, the only thing that can kill btc is another coin with superior features, but not Apple.

If anything I hope news like this will only make Bitcoin better.  I respect the move on the part of Apple, Visa and Mastercard.  When it comes to Bitcoin however I"m not worried.

You are saying that Apple is coming with a new PAYPAL and are afraid it to be concurrence for BITCOIN?

Centralized payment systems attached to Credit Cards, you have thousands of them. Apple is just another one.

A credit card loan is secured by nothing more then your reputation. If you are able to pay off your balance every month then you will generally not pay any kind of fee for using it. The money you borrow when you use a credit card is borrowed by the bank from it's bondholders and depositholders.

When you use bitcoin you need to trust that the person selling you whatever goods/services is going to give you such goods/services after you provide payment. With credit cards you do not need to give any such trust (you can dispute the charge if you do not receive the goods).

The benefit of using bitcon vs using a credit card is the fact that it is cheaper and less risky for the merchant, which should mean lower prices for you (the consumer).

that is completely against everything that apple is about. they like to control everything and forcefeed you what you like or don't like.. plus you can make more money that way.

So if I don't pay my debt, they're not gonna go after my assets, they're not gonna seek any repayment, only my reputation will suffer? Interesting. Which country is that?


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/18/truth-money-iou-bank-of-england-austerity (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/18/truth-money-iou-bank-of-england-austerity)


Actually, you do. You wouldn't willingly submit your cc details on the fraudulent site. Also, in some cases, you have to TRUST that the bank will issue the chargeback:

Not quite, they usually pick a thing that already exists but wasn't a success, or at least not yet, rebrand it and add a bitten apple logo to it. Then they let the fanboys do their magic...

Apples way exactly. That how they make more money and they continue on doing this for long time.

Apple is done, they are running out of ideas, the iWatch thing is going to suck lol.

Not to mention jack up the price to unbelievable levels.

soon there will be a thread with a topic 'death of Apple made by Bitcoins'

Will uncork some champagne for that  8)

Won't really need bitcoin for that.
Apple has been close to going under quite a few times in its history.  :)

iWatch will do the job for that  ;D

Regardless apple is unlikely going to use bitcon for their payment service. They simply wouldn't make enough money off of it for it to be worth their time and investment. Remember that apple usually has very high margins, usually in the 30%+ range.

I think bitcoin is very strong, never dead in all time...because the community bitcoin very large and increase daily :o

I think it seems like a technology platform which bitcoin could run on nicely.  Bitcoin wouldnt have got to where it is now if companies could wipe it out this easy.

The idea of paying with verification via fingerprint is cool but I don't think it will interfere with Bitcoin's goals. They are completely different in application

To keep the profit margin up at that level is hard without the "protection" of the law.

Smart phone will get increasing high competition on price and quality. I do not see Apple company having any other product that can be compete on global with huge profit margin.

I think it is more then fair for apple to be able to protect their original ideas and inventions if that is what allows them to make money. If they invest time and money (they usually invest a lot of both) into building something unique then there is no reason for other people to be able to legally copy what they built.

Apple is better at marketing bad ideas.

Cryptocoin can also use mobile device.

Apple does NOT compete on the price/quality market. They compete on the exhibition/luxury market.
The problem here is that they are hitting the masses with it for quite a while and eventually the branding magic will fade or disappear.

If the rumors are true, we would get yet another way of making payments. There have been some project to implement NFC payments, but a major player like Apple and its infrastructure would be a game changer. Would it kill bitcoin though, or crypto currency as a whole?

No chance. Simply because it's two different worlds, two different set of customers.

Not true... Apple should be happy with bitcoin boom. They can use its popularity. They might even buy the bitcoin name.

That's the issue, they can't.
You must look at Apple and Steve Jobs as Thomas Edison and Marconi... the issue is that Bitcoin doesn't have a Nikola Tesla to exploit.

We will know if the magic is fading soon - iPhone 6 and iWatch are going to hit the markets.

People is stupid, they will eat anything Apple.

Apple are marketing gods. they can sell anything.

Actually i would buy a iWatch if it looks as cool as the leaked renders.

What are you talking about?  Bitcoin is alive you fool

They will depreciate in 6 months. Not a good buy.

Apple should embrace bitcoin, it will further boost their sales.

That will be major for bitcoin if apply embraces them. Well, apple can use bitcoin as payment for their app.

Apple needs mainly lawyers and ink to get individual deals done with credit cards, banks and merchants, the technical innovation is negligible. The efficiency gain is negative, because it makes the traditional payment system even more complex. Apple adds to an existing infrastructure and does not replace existing infrastructure.

In contrast every customer or merchant has the freedom to start using Bitcoin, no one is forced to contract a tech giant or banks for using it. 

The user base of Apple is too small.

Well one thing that apple does add to the system by using apple pay is prevent potential attacks that are similar to what happened with target and home depot because the card information would/should be encrypted the entire time

It is still built on the back of same creaking, corrupt system that other fiat is. I don't think it'll be too big a problem.

bitcoin will be more stronger after this news. cuz apple is a popular company. bitcoin gains populatity from apple with this news

Once upon a time we used to walk into a shop and pay by cash. Then we got debit/credit cards which meant we didnt have to carry around cash. Instead we would use this plastic card to authorise payment between our bank and the merchants bank.

Applepay is an extension of this principle. Instead of using plastic cards as an identifyer one uses the iphone which is capable of securely facilitating the transaction without giving away sensitive personal information.

Apple is paid a transaction fee by the bank thus generating them income. This model is akin to itunes. Itunes facilitates selling music and everytime Apple earn a transaction fee.

How does this affect bitcoin. IT DOESN'T because bitcoin is the currency whilst Applepay is the method.

I am guessing if one has a bitcoin account with a bitcoin debit card ( I assume these exist, or soon will) then Applepay can be used to facilitate purchasing in bitcoins. As it's new to the market then Apple don't currently support bitcoin transactions but it's only a matter of time.

Have a guess what, when Apple implement bitcoin then they will enjoy a transaction fee in bitcoin!

Hope this helps to explain Applepay a bit better

I heard ios8 just released an app called Breadwallet where you can store your bitcoin there. :)

Have you used that app already? Downloaded it in my phone but im not using it right now.

Bread? Seriously? I haven't heard that term used since the hippie sixties.

Although some people may view them as "competitors" at first glance, ApplePay and Bitcoin are actually not competing against each other at all. Once you realize that ApplePay is a technical implementation of payment via any number of methods, and could integrate Bitcoin as a payment method, that should become more clear.

There is always the same. When someone try to FUD somethink, but community is strong there is always opposite effect. Bitcoin is stronger and stronger every day.

I agree with that.

No OP, it doesnt make sense different beasts on there.

But.. it's still in the ever falling Fiat currencies.

Hey, it's short and clean sounding, it's a classic and fun slang term for money, and it starts with a "b". Also the domain wasn't taken. :)

I would disagree. The loan term, main uses of bitcoin will likely be the same kind of purchases that can be made with apple pay. Meaning purchases in retain environments similar to where credit cards are used today. Bitcoin would also be used in a very similar fashion that apple pay is to be used

Okay let us make some things clear.

Bitcoin is not great because it is fast, it's great because it's fast, you don't need anything to buy it but a wallet address in your head. It works for a number of other reasons we all no doubt no by this stage. So why forget previous argument pro bitcoin.

Even if the inventor turned out to keep the 1 million bitcoins to himself and even if this was set up as some sort of pyramid scheme, bitcoin still as a technology offers serious advantage. The main one, most people don't realise is transparency. Sure it has some anonymity, and a further bonus, if needed with effort, you can track someone back to a source (with great effort), it provides a safe and secure system, bound by mathematics, in the same way we don't have two people with the same finger print, we won't have two people randomly generate wallets. And if you are smart to spread over wallets, the most someone will lose to chance will be nothing to worry about. If you are smart that is, unlike mt.gox.

If you are thinking of buying altcoins and look at some of these third parties, like nxtcoin, remember the reason bitcoin works well is because you don't have third parties and high fees/spreads.

Back to transparency. In economics, Keynes and such talk about measuring some funky equations some of you won't know, but basically, we are measuring money supply, velocity, demand, spend rate and so on. Another way to rant on, is to talk about a computer model for the economic system. In simple terms, most financial theory is maths, not social science as we are led to believe (teleb points this out quite to the point). It is simply maths, and a computer can do maths. One major problem is that you can't be sure exactly how much cash (in all respects - M0,M1, M2,M3, M4... ) is currently in the economy. You can't measure it as well. If you could most markets would offer less profit incentive as it would be widely easy to predict and measure. Bitcoin, is fully transparent and will change the world if we let it. Why do we need to change the world. It is corrupt. The fact that it is corrupt probably means we can't change it.

Apple... not to worry. How is apple's security these days. Plus it isn't the same. No more needed to be said. This is what barclays tried with contact-less card payments. Didn't adopt so well. Bitcoin, you don't need anything, and people like that.

Final note... F**k Apple. No one gives a shit. It is the same shit. Even the video that came out, telling you a joke about how it's the same shit, then going on to sell you the same shit, while trying to make it not look like the same shit due to the fact that they managed to pull a crack and the start of the advert, that it is in fact... The SAME...F**KiING... SHIT





 

I think bitcoin is very strong, never dead in all time...because the community bitcoin very large and increase daily