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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: evoorhees on April 13, 2012, 07:12:18 PM



Title: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 13, 2012, 07:12:18 PM
Hi all,

Earlier this week I was a guest on a radio show (Declare Your Independence with Ernest Hancock). During the interview, the host asked/demanded that I draft up a comprehensive overview of Bitcoin for those who were totally oblivious, and this would be released in the Freedom's Phoenix magazine today (April 13) for their April issue.

So of course I did, and the piece is now finished and published today. This is a primer on Bitcoin for liberty-minded folk, covering the topic from the lens of a non-techie libertarian. Even covering topics briefly, the document ended up at 14 pages single-spaced.

I've now republished this on my blog, so feel free to read and comment and copy and distribute at your leisure.

http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html (http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html)

I'll also be back on the radio show next week, to further discuss with the host and his audience why Bitcoin is the best thing to happen to human liberty since the internet.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: bearbones on April 13, 2012, 07:27:23 PM
Great article mate. I see you added some fun graphics, too. Looks good!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: FreeMoney on April 13, 2012, 07:31:48 PM
What? You can just do that on demand?

Not done reading yet, but very nice work.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: herzmeister on April 13, 2012, 07:37:18 PM
Quote
To use Bitcoin, you traditionally download the client software [...]

 In order to get this wallet on your computer, you simply download it like any software.

twice?  ???

be as non-confusing as possible for non-techies! also don't use words like "client software".  :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 13, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
Quote
To use Bitcoin, you traditionally download the client software [...]

 In order to get this wallet on your computer, you simply download it like any software.

twice?  ???

be as non-confusing as possible for non-techies! also don't use words like "client software".  :)

Thank you, fixed on both counts ;)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Portnoy on April 13, 2012, 10:40:53 PM
"Bitcoin cannot be turned off - it is like a benevolent cancer which, so long as a few hosts survive somewhere in the world, can perpetuate itself and regrow at the speed of information."

 :o

Even with the qualifier "benevolent" and even if it is technically accurate... in my opinion... that is a terrible metaphor to use.

Do you know how many people in our modern world have lost loved ones to cancer?

No amount of qualifiers are going to remove the negative psychological weight from a word like that.  

And surely you must know how the enemies of something like bitcoin would just love to have good key words to jump on and
use against it.  

( below said in something like a Rush Limbaugh voice )
"Harumpf! And here we have another article where we have another bitcoin "expert", comparing this new "technology", to cancer! People, I ask you!"



Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: wachtwoord on April 13, 2012, 10:45:12 PM
Nah I love the metaphor and I have lost two family members to cancer. People should grow up.

Very nice piece of work evoorhees, the best description of Bitcoin for non-technical yet intelligent people I have read thus far.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Portnoy on April 13, 2012, 10:49:24 PM
People should grow up.

They should... We should. But I for one won't hold my breath waiting for it. 

And the thing about (sub/un)conscious reactions is that we don't know about them, by definition, and don't have much choice about their influence on us. 


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: MatthewLM on April 13, 2012, 10:51:02 PM
Bitcoin promotion: "You can buy drugs online with it."

It's quite easy.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Tuxavant on April 14, 2012, 12:53:59 AM
Great article. Enjoyed reading it and will pass it along to all my Libertarian friends!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Explodicle on April 14, 2012, 01:50:29 AM
Quote from: jack (in the blog post comments)
Great Post! I love reading bitcoin articles from people who genuinely 'get it' :)
+1
It always makes me feel better to know some other people realize what is happening, and maybe I'm not so crazy. :D


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: acoindr on April 14, 2012, 02:46:41 AM
Wow, haven't finished it, but it's really good.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: majamalu on April 14, 2012, 02:55:48 AM
The best article about Bitcoin I've read to date (and I've read them all).


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: acoindr on April 14, 2012, 03:59:07 AM
This isn't only the best thing I've read on Bitcoin, it's the best thing I've read in a while, period. Informative, funny, cogent. Nice job! I actually got a chill from the last few sentences.

I have to re-post a few of my favorite lines:

Quote
The press conferences of someone like Bernanke would become less and less important, because the currency he printed would be used in narrower and narrower circles. Instead of fighting the government, Bitcoin enables individuals to sidestep it - to ignore it to a large degree.

Quote
Taking down Bitcoin websites would be like cutting the heads of a Hydra - for each successful severance, publicity and the profit motive would compel more sites to spring up (case in point: how many file sharing sites exist, other than MegaUpload?).

Quote
Bitcoin is a highly volatile commodity with an extremely uncertain future. Grandmothers should not be putting retirement money into Bitcoin (nor in US dollars, for that matter).

There was also a line about a "decree by Bernanke" that I can't find, but for some reason made me laugh.

You also nailed the why Bitcoin is valuable question.

This should be spread far and wide.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: muyuu on April 14, 2012, 04:09:34 AM
Looks good independently of any libertarian bias, too.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: da2ce7 on April 14, 2012, 04:10:07 AM
I like the article, however your blog’s css needs a bit of work…

The most important thing to do is include a small padding either side of the article, so that the text doesn’t end at the same point as the boarder.

Secondly, place a black boarder around the images. (The same 1px black border that is around the two columns).  Also place a 3 to 4 px margin around the pictures.

These simple changes will greatly improve the look of your blog.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: BrightAnarchist on April 14, 2012, 04:20:12 AM
Best article yet on Bitcoin


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: acoindr on April 14, 2012, 04:33:13 AM
You know what, on thinking about that Libertarian Convention thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=69063.msg849498#msg849498)... if this article could be converted into small pamphlets and distributed there it might go over well I think.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: bitlizard on April 14, 2012, 05:30:19 AM
thanks for writing that great article Erik i tipped you on twitter!



Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: FreeMoney on April 14, 2012, 07:13:51 AM
Thanks for the link to Seals. SealsWithClubs.com is wrong but does forward to SealsWithClubs.eu so it's not that wrong.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: matonis on April 14, 2012, 09:50:18 AM
Great piece, Erik. Thanks for posting it on your blog. I forwarded it to some of my Austrian econ friends too.

BTW, what is the source (and date) of your bitcoin instances chart? http://files.campus.edublogs.org/blogs.umb.edu/dist/2/123/files/2012/01/countries-v5q30e.png  because on a number of hosts basis RowIT shows it as US-1, Germany-2, Russia-3 http://bitcoinstatus.rowit.co.uk/  (scroll to bottom of page)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: mcorlett on April 14, 2012, 10:26:47 AM
I posted (http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/s8uhs/best_bitcoin_article_ive_read_yet/c4c55yy) my thoughts on reddit.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: ne1 on April 14, 2012, 10:58:32 AM
btw, evoorhees, I can't find it now, but I was reading some of your back in forth with the guy who is doing a ted talk and it was great.  He was asking some great questions and you were giving some great answers.  Just saying, good stuff. 

-NE1


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Technomage on April 14, 2012, 12:15:42 PM
Great article. You probably don't mind if I translate parts of this article and use them on a Finnish Bitcoin site (soon to be launched)? :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: wachtwoord on April 14, 2012, 03:23:59 PM
The Olympic torch has been out numerous times.

Of those I still think cancer is strongest (or maybe viruses or even cockroaches).

Maybe something more people than just me would associate with something positive: "like the universe that will keep on expanding exponentially no matter how long you wait"*

* According to the current theories


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on April 14, 2012, 03:32:47 PM
Hi all,

Earlier this week I was a guest on a radio show (Declare Your Independence with Ernest Hancock). During the interview, the host asked/demanded that I draft up a comprehensive overview of Bitcoin for those who were totally oblivious, and this would be released in the Freedom's Phoenix magazine today (April 13) for their April issue.

So of course I did, and the piece is now finished and published today. This is a primer on Bitcoin for liberty-minded folk, covering the topic from the lens of a non-techie libertarian. Even covering topics briefly, the document ended up at 14 pages single-spaced.

I've now republished this on my blog, so feel free to read and comment and copy and distribute at your leisure.

http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html (http://evoorhees.blogspot.com/2012/04/bitcoin-libertarian-introduction.html)

I'll also be back on the radio show next week, to further discuss with the host and his audience why Bitcoin is the best thing to happen to human liberty since the internet.

Damn you, evoorhees! More great shit penned by you to read. I'm looking forward to reading this later today, for now I need to load a semi with barn wood destined to Valpo.

Later, bud.

~Bruno~


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: FreeMoney on April 14, 2012, 04:24:23 PM
"Bitcoin cannot be turned off - it is like a benevolent cancer which, so long as a few hosts survive somewhere in the world, can perpetuate itself and regrow at the speed of information."

 :o

Even with the qualifier "benevolent" and even if it is technically accurate... in my opinion... that is a terrible metaphor to use.

Do you know how many people in our modern world have lost loved ones to cancer?

No amount of qualifiers are going to remove the negative psychological weight from a word like that.  

And surely you must know how the enemies of something like bitcoin would just love to have good key words to jump on and
use against it.  

( below said in something like a Rush Limbaugh voice )
"Harumpf! And here we have another article where we have another bitcoin "expert", comparing this new "technology", to cancer! People, I ask you!"

Yeah that one made me cringe a little. Feel free to take and modify some of these:
"like a struggling life form that will survive as long as there is air to breathe"
"like a forest that will always regenerate as long as there's a little sunlight"
"like a bonfire that will keep burning as long as there is kindling somewhere in the world"
"like hot custard that always grows a thick skin, no matter how it gets stirred."
"like an Olympic torch that keeps on burning, as long as there is someone to pass it on to."
 :)

"Benevolent weed" might be better than cancer.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: waspoza on April 14, 2012, 04:36:43 PM
Great article, thanks!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: herzmeister on April 14, 2012, 04:37:33 PM
seeds and green life in general spreading would be considered positive... especially through the cosmos... panspermia (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgeuRukfZLE)   8)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: cypherdoc on April 14, 2012, 04:50:57 PM
Erik,

thanks for taking the time to do this.  it really was excellent. 

i do hope you reactivate your blog for Bitcoin related writings.  i think you'd develop a large following and it would be good to hear regularly from someone who can articulate the community's feelings on these matters.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Red Emerald on April 14, 2012, 04:52:28 PM
Great read, even for those who just want Bitcoin to be the currency of the Internet and not the world.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Realpra on April 14, 2012, 08:18:33 PM
Nah I love the metaphor and I have lost two family members to cancer. People should grow up.

Very nice piece of work evoorhees, the best description of Bitcoin for non-technical yet intelligent people I have read thus far.
Didn't bother me either BUT:

The word you WANT to use is "FIRESTORM" - it sounds awesome and you can make the exact same analogy.

Also "your it" should be "your wallet" or "it".

Great read.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Gabi on April 14, 2012, 09:20:13 PM
The article is just... perfect. Awesome.

Great job!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: bc on April 15, 2012, 03:42:04 AM
Quote from: jack (in the blog post comments)
Great Post! I love reading bitcoin articles from people who genuinely 'get it' :)
+1
It always makes me feel better to know some other people realize what is happening, and maybe I'm not so crazy. :D

+1


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: FreeMoney on April 15, 2012, 04:37:42 AM
Great read, even for those who just want Bitcoin to be the currency of the Internet and not the world.

The Internet is like cancer, there's not going to be a difference eventually.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 15, 2012, 07:08:04 PM
Thanks for the link to Seals. SealsWithClubs.com is wrong but does forward to SealsWithClubs.eu so it's not that wrong.

Fixed, thanks!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 15, 2012, 07:21:11 PM
Sincere thanks to everyone who said such kind words about the piece, really made my day when I checked all the messages this morning! It really makes all the effort worthwhile to have such compliments from such honorable people here in this wonderful community.

For those asking about translations and any kind of distribution or re-posting, feel free to do whatever you'd like, however you'd like.

Onward!

 


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: coinuser4000 on April 15, 2012, 10:33:22 PM
Excellent plain-english explanation of Bitcoin from the Libertarian perspective. An essay like this was long overdue imo.



Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: hazek on April 16, 2012, 02:34:07 PM
I think it's only fitting to post this piece on the 5th most visited libertarian website, right?   8)

http://www.dailypaul.com/226936/if-the-government-hates-it-dont-you-think-you-should-at-least-consider-learning-about-it


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: PrintCoins on April 17, 2012, 01:32:28 PM
Quote
Put this wallet.dat file on a USB drive in your safe or mail it to your parents. Burn it to a CD and put it in a bank safety deposit box. Put it on a different computer. You can even email the file to yourself. Better yet, do two or three of the above. You only need to back up the wallet file once at the beginning (you don't need to do it every day or week, etc), and you should do it before you've received any money. Back it up, keep it safe, and the likelihood of you losing your Bitcoins will be lower than you dying in a car crash. If you don't back it up, the likelihood of you losing your coins is almost guaranteed.

Um... isn't this wrong (unless you are using a deterministic wallet). Every time you create a new address for receiving, or for change when sending, the wallet.dat gets a new keypair added. If you don't backup after this, then that money is lost (in the event of failure).

Wallet.dat needs to be backed up with every new transaction, or at least when enough transactions have occurred that it the loss would matter to you.

To me, I find this is the biggest problem with the software. When you do a lot of transactions, you need to make backups frequently. Practically this means that your backup device is likely sitting right next to your computer (not in a cd mailed to ma and pa). If my house burns down, my bitcoins are lost.

Now, I might be ignorent of a recent change to the software, but that was my original understanding of how it worked. Maybe it is smarter now and allocates 10K addresses for itself so that you don't need to be backing up all the time.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: mcorlett on April 17, 2012, 01:35:03 PM
Maybe it is smarter now and allocates 10K addresses for itself so that you don't need to be backing up all the time.
It does this, only with 100 keys. See wiki: key pool.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 17, 2012, 03:27:21 PM
Maybe it is smarter now and allocates 10K addresses for itself so that you don't need to be backing up all the time.
It does this, only with 100 keys. See wiki: key pool.

Yeah the wallet has 100 addresses ready in its queue - most casual users are not going to use more than this (especially for a crucial savings wallet - it'll probably only have a few addresses used), and I'm quite sure the deterministic wallets will become standard, so the potential problem of which you speak should go away on its own. I was trying to make the article somewhat future-proof (and had to keep it simple), so I didn't delve into nuances like this.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: FreeMoney on April 17, 2012, 05:30:23 PM
Maybe it is smarter now and allocates 10K addresses for itself so that you don't need to be backing up all the time.
It does this, only with 100 keys. See wiki: key pool.

Yeah the wallet has 100 addresses ready in its queue - most casual users are not going to use more than this (especially for a crucial savings wallet - it'll probably only have a few addresses used), and I'm quite sure the deterministic wallets will become standard, so the potential problem of which you speak should go away on its own. I was trying to make the article somewhat future-proof (and had to keep it simple), so I didn't delve into nuances like this.

100 transactions ever isn't that unlikely. And probably by the time they are putting serious money in and then retrieving their backup they'll be past that. It is sends (new change address) and newly generated payment addresses (used or not, click that button 100 times and your backup won't work from that point).

Maybe devs could change the default to 1000 if bulk generation can/is done smoothly now. But that's still not foolproof.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 17, 2012, 07:43:24 PM
There is always an issue when explaining Bitcoin: thoroughness vs simplicity. One cannot cover every nuance and still retain an audience. For example, I'll typically tell people Bitcoin has "no fees"... which is partly true, but there is a caveat as we all know. But going into every caveat on a first discussion is a great way to alienate the listener, and often too much info all at once has the effect of making the listener absorb less than otherwise.

Bitcoin requires education, and that education has to occur in pieces. This is a challenge we all struggle with daily :)



Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Boussac on April 17, 2012, 09:32:04 PM
Great article Erik, very inspiring and informative: the best bitcoin primer I have read to date !

Per a comment by Portnoy, I would rather use your second choice of "hydra" as a metaphor for the resilience of bitcoin than a lethal disease.

Overall, it's fun to read because of lines like that one:

"Try fleeing a country with $1,000,000 in bullion without the government knowing about it. Easier said than done. With Bitcoin, it's almost easier done than said"


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: PrintCoins on April 17, 2012, 09:43:22 PM
Maybe it is smarter now and allocates 10K addresses for itself so that you don't need to be backing up all the time.
It does this, only with 100 keys. See wiki: key pool.

Yeah the wallet has 100 addresses ready in its queue - most casual users are not going to use more than this (especially for a crucial savings wallet - it'll probably only have a few addresses used), and I'm quite sure the deterministic wallets will become standard, so the potential problem of which you speak should go away on its own. I was trying to make the article somewhat future-proof (and had to keep it simple), so I didn't delve into nuances like this.

100 transactions ever isn't that unlikely. And probably by the time they are putting serious money in and then retrieving their backup they'll be past that. It is sends (new change address) and newly generated payment addresses (used or not, click that button 100 times and your backup won't work from that point).

Maybe devs could change the default to 1000 if bulk generation can/is done smoothly now. But that's still not foolproof.

Yeah, 1000 isn't that big of a deal, and really 10000 isn't either (as far as storage). This extra bit of data will make it so backups for 99.99% of people would be unneeded, which is awesome.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Red Emerald on April 17, 2012, 09:51:04 PM
Maybe it is smarter now and allocates 10K addresses for itself so that you don't need to be backing up all the time.
It does this, only with 100 keys. See wiki: key pool.

Yeah the wallet has 100 addresses ready in its queue - most casual users are not going to use more than this (especially for a crucial savings wallet - it'll probably only have a few addresses used), and I'm quite sure the deterministic wallets will become standard, so the potential problem of which you speak should go away on its own. I was trying to make the article somewhat future-proof (and had to keep it simple), so I didn't delve into nuances like this.

100 transactions ever isn't that unlikely. And probably by the time they are putting serious money in and then retrieving their backup they'll be past that. It is sends (new change address) and newly generated payment addresses (used or not, click that button 100 times and your backup won't work from that point).

Maybe devs could change the default to 1000 if bulk generation can/is done smoothly now. But that's still not foolproof.

Yeah, 1000 isn't that big of a deal, and really 10000 isn't either (as far as storage). This extra bit of data will make it so backups for 99.99% of people would be unneeded, which is awesome.
A backed up deterministic wallets has zero chance of losing funds and is a way more robust solution that just generating 10,000 addresses for the keypool


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on April 17, 2012, 11:46:16 PM
Just now getting around to reading it. This is one great article, albeit I did find an error.

Quote
Bitcoin is thus the only currency and money system in the world which has no counter-party risk to hold and to transfer. This is absolutely revolutionary and you should read the preceding sentence again. Gold advocates will point out that physical gold bullion has no counter-party risk, but that is only true for storage in your own home. Store it in a vault or bank and you have counter-party risk. And sending gold? You have to trust all sorts of people if you wish to transfer your gold somewhere else or spend it across distance.

Does anybody else see it? Thought not, therefore I'll divulge the faux pas--the font size of this paragraph is smaller than the rest of the text.  :)

Back to reading.

~Bruno~

EDIT: Just got to the section that has the image of the cock and hen, and realized for the first time that the paragraphs are beautified. Interesting choice!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Rassah on April 18, 2012, 01:24:00 AM
+1 Like


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on April 18, 2012, 01:54:14 AM
How the hell am I suppose to enjoy reading this diatribe if I keep finding errors. This is the second one found about 3/4 of the page down.

Quote
You can assume no government wants you to adopt this system in any capacity, and for that reason alone it's worth consideration by honest, moral, and industrious people.

(or is it: ...wants you adopting this system...?)

Damn, I enjoy this article so, so much.

~Bruno~


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 18, 2012, 01:58:14 AM
How the hell am I suppose to enjoy reading this diatribe if I keep finding errors. This is the second one found about 3/4 of the page down.

Quote
You can assume no government wants you to adopt this system in any capacity, and for that reason alone it's worth consideration by honest, moral, and industrious people.

(or is it: ...wants you adopting this system...?)

Damn, I enjoy this article so, so much.

~Bruno~


Are you drunk Bruno? :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: rjk on April 18, 2012, 01:59:48 AM
How the hell am I suppose to enjoy reading this diatribe if I keep finding errors. This is the second one found about 3/4 of the page down.

Quote
You can assume no government wants you to adopt this system in any capacity, and for that reason alone it's worth consideration by honest, moral, and industrious people.

(or is it: ...wants you adopting this system...?)

Damn, I enjoy this article so, so much.

~Bruno~

What's incorrect about that?


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on April 18, 2012, 02:05:32 AM
How the hell am I suppose to enjoy reading this diatribe if I keep finding errors. This is the second one found about 3/4 of the page down.

Quote
You can assume no government wants you to adopt this system in any capacity, and for that reason alone it's worth consideration by honest, moral, and industrious people.

(or is it: ...wants you adopting this system...?)

Damn, I enjoy this article so, so much.

~Bruno~

What's incorrect about that?

I added the to, for it was missing. But I am asking if "to" should be included. I, in no way, am being hyper-critical by commenting on the grammar or spelling. On the contrary, I find this so well written, that if I, not a seasoned wordsmith, can improve upon it by pointing out such ONE minor error, than I feel I've contributed my share to Bitcoin. And another thing--only Matthew is allowed to ask if I've been drinking.  ;D

Again, this is a great article, evoorhees. You're my favorite writer on this forum.

~Bruno~


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: rjk on April 18, 2012, 02:11:47 AM
I added the to, for it was missing.
Oh I get it now, sorry!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on April 18, 2012, 02:24:59 AM
I added the to, for it was missing.
Oh I get it now, sorry!

No prob, rjk. A mentor of mine (RIP) once asked me to write a sentence that he was about to utter. He uttered it. I couldn't write it. Here is that sentence where one word (phonically written in bold) couldn't be written: There are three 2's in the English language. Although this sentence can be uttered (on an utter kick  :)), it can't be written so that it's grammatically correct, for which one of the following would you use: 2; two; to; or too?

I think it's only fitting to post this piece on the 5th most visited libertarian website, right?   8)

http://www.dailypaul.com/226936/if-the-government-hates-it-dont-you-think-you-should-at-least-consider-learning-about-it

I just visited this site, and was taken aback while reading the negative comments. Am I correct in stating that these folks who have a clue, don't have a clue?

~Bruno~


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: gnar1ta$ on April 18, 2012, 02:34:23 AM
Nice work Erik.  Please leave a link when the next interview airs.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on April 18, 2012, 02:51:45 AM
Quote
Furthermore, Erik is also a partner in a couple top-secret super-subversive Bitcoin-based projects...

Let me guess the URL: bitcoin.com?

~Bruno~


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 18, 2012, 03:37:17 AM
LOL well thank you Bruno, I've made the change according to your recommended edit.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Phinnaeus Gage on April 18, 2012, 04:19:24 AM
LOL well thank you Bruno, I've made the change according to your recommended edit.

And you thught I was am dwinkking! Now itss pefecck. Hic!

http://www.upgradetravelbetter.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/mini-liquor-bottles.jpg


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: weex on April 18, 2012, 05:12:35 AM
The Freedom's Phoenix issue that includes this article is now available at coinDL: https://www.coindl.com/page/item/123


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Boussac on April 18, 2012, 10:26:16 AM
Just now getting around to reading it. This is one great article, albeit I did find an error.

Quote
Bitcoin is thus the only currency and money system in the world which has no counter-party risk to hold and to transfer. This is absolutely revolutionary and you should read the preceding sentence again.


Actually this particular paragraph might contain a slight overstatement: it's more accurate to write that bitcoin allows us for the first time in history to spread the counter-party risk on the entire community (of miners) instead of relying on a single counter-party (single point-of-failure).
As such, bitcoin can be said the first ever "community based" monetary system, one that cannot be easily hijacked by a small group of people.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 18, 2012, 12:43:57 PM
Just now getting around to reading it. This is one great article, albeit I did find an error.

Quote
Bitcoin is thus the only currency and money system in the world which has no counter-party risk to hold and to transfer. This is absolutely revolutionary and you should read the preceding sentence again.


Actually this particular paragraph might contain a slight overstatement: it's more accurate to write that bitcoin allows us for the first time in history to spread the counter-party risk on the entire community (of miners) instead of relying on a single counter-party (single point-of-failure).
As such, bitcoin can be said the first ever "community based" monetary system, one that cannot be easily hijacked by a small group of people.

I don't think the miners qualify as counter-party risk. In fact, if they all stopped, I could mine myself ;)

Of course, we could also say Bitcoin has counter-party risk in the internet infrastructure itself... I rely on the cables and electricity and servers. But I think that starts becoming a meaningless definition of "counter party risk".

It is the fact that no single entity or organization is vulnerable or can halt the payment or holding of Bitcoin. THAT is the breakthrough and I thus I think the statement "no counter party risk" is valid.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: ptshamrock on April 18, 2012, 12:47:43 PM
The best article about Bitcoin I've read to date (and I've read them all).


+1


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: hazek on April 18, 2012, 02:52:32 PM
I think it's only fitting to post this piece on the 5th most visited libertarian website, right?   8)

http://www.dailypaul.com/226936/if-the-government-hates-it-dont-you-think-you-should-at-least-consider-learning-about-it

Man there's still so many close minded die hard precious metals almost religious fanatic like advocates among libertarians completely opposed to what the free market came up with and even to just the idea that such a thing as an artificial and yet sound currency could exist.

But I do notice a lot more people open and supportive to the idea. I just don't understand how libertarians of all people can be so damn close minded that they aren't even willing to spend some time and learn about it in detail before they dismiss it. Human nature sucks.  :-\


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: herzmeister on April 18, 2012, 03:14:48 PM
maybe also a generational problem. most of these libertarians are probably not really digital natives. they need something that's shiny and they can touch.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: wachtwoord on April 18, 2012, 04:24:13 PM
I went ahead and read through the comments and really like David Robertson's comment. Seems like some people do get it :)

Quote

I wrote the above comment before I read the article and the bitcoin.org website. I did this deliberately since I wanted to lay down the foundation of how money comes into existence and what money is.

There is no question in my mind that the bitcoin is indeed money and harnesses all the features of gold and silver while wedding them to the Internet in a peer to peer payment system. The creators of bitcoin have used an analogy of gold and gold mining to create their system and this is justifiable I believe.

The Land in this case is the pool of talent within the bitcoin community and the Labour is the application of the efforts of the original source code creators and the "miners" who bring the blocks of bitcoins into existence. It is then easy to see that bitcoins are genuine money.

Now, there are other features that I find interesting and intriguing. There is another analogy that can be used to understand this phenomenon. This is the formation of a corporation with a block of "authorised share capital" and a block of "issued and outstanding share capital" . The authorised capital would be the c.21 million bitcoins that can be created over time. The issued and outstanding capital consists of the bitcoins that have been issued to date. The business of the corporation itself is the payment system that bitcoin facilitates and represents.

When one sees it in this way then it is obvious that by becoming an early adopter (shareholder) of bitcoin there is a very real possiblity that one couild profit as the payment system is used more widely and the value of the "corporation" and therefore the price of the "shares" increase. The fact that the number of "shares" that can be issued is finite leads to an even greater likelihood of appreciation in the price of bitcoins.

The same caveats as investing in a "venture" company apply but since the system is already up and running and there are more and more joining every day (61,500 bitcoins traded on just one exchange today) the risks are less than one might imagine. Of course one must be circumspect but it might be worth a flutter.

The other feature I liked was the potential link with gold and silver. I use a Goldmoney account and since last year they have stopped offering inter-account transfers under pressure from the government. Eric Voorhees advertises a website offering gold and silver coins for bitcoins and it may well be that Goldmoney will do the same at some point. Then one could use gold and silver as stores of value and "earn" bitcoins on various websites offering payment in bitcoins for filling out surveys, reading adverts etc. The bitcoins could be used to trade for goods and services and to purchase gold and silver to spread the risk and create a store of value.

All in all I agree that when Dr. Paul is President and the market is opened up to competing currencies, removing the threat of government interference, the bitcoin system will come into its own. There is no doubt it has been created for such a time as this. I am not too surprised that it is opposed by the von Mises Institute. They can be quite doctrinaire. They also oppose Professor Fekete's ideas on Adam Smith's Real Bills Doctrine. However they are free market advocates also so that will put everything to the test.

BTW Bitcoin also mentions fractional reserve banking being used to increase the money supply. This is not something I would agree with since I believe it to be fraudulent but it may not last long since in the first place a bitcoin/gold/silver system would tend to be deflationary and this makes all borrowing less attractive. Secondly the existence of fractional reserves would have to be declared and people would be unlikely to provide savings to such an enterprise since other safer options would be available. It would take only a couple of bank collapses to put an end to that way of doing business.



Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: dooglus on April 18, 2012, 09:18:35 PM
The article still says "You only need to back up the wallet file once at the beginning".

That's untrue, and dangerous advice.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: dooglus on April 18, 2012, 09:20:12 PM
I was trying to make the article somewhat future-proof (and had to keep it simple), so I didn't delve into nuances like this.

It's better to say nothing about wallet safety than to say things you know are factually incorrect and dangerous.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 18, 2012, 10:25:09 PM
I was trying to make the article somewhat future-proof (and had to keep it simple), so I didn't delve into nuances like this.

It's better to say nothing about wallet safety than to say things you know are factually incorrect and dangerous.

I've been involved with Bitcoin for a year now. Never once have I used a wallet with more than 100 addresses. The average casual user will find out about the 100 addresses thing long before he puts himself at risk like that.

The statement is not factually incorrect. You DO only need one backup of the wallet. .. there's just a caveat. The caveat is when you go over 100 addresses - and to try to explain every caveat and nuance of Bitcoin in an introductory article (that was already 14 pages single spaced) is going to be counter productive, don't you think?


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: terrytibbs on April 18, 2012, 11:06:57 PM
You DO only need 1 ounce of gas for your airplane... There's just a caveat. The caveat is when you try to actually fucking take off.

"Sorry, my goal was to write a concise article on Bitcoin."

Edit: Factually correct statements - killing people since the birth of evorhees!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Technomage on April 18, 2012, 11:12:23 PM
Well there are people who are using Bitcoin wallets that have required new backups. I happen to have one that is pushing it, 90 or so addresses used. The main problem with this is that it's actually not easy to keep track of the amount of addresses used because you have to check the list of your receiving addresses + the amount of sent transactions. It's reaaaalllyyy far from being user friendly.

That happens to be one of the many reasons that I don't actually recommend the official client to anyone anymore. There are much better clients out there that make more sense. The official client goes to the same category as Armory, meant for power users. Regular users should be using other clients.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: terrytibbs on April 18, 2012, 11:15:12 PM
Here's another one: "Nobody can prevent you from spending it."

The bitcoin wiki saves the day:
Quote
An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:
Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control
Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: rjk on April 18, 2012, 11:22:10 PM
You DO only need 1 ounce of gas for your airplane... There's just a caveat. The caveat is when you try to actually fucking take off.

"Sorry, my goal was to write a concise article on Bitcoin."

Edit: Factually correct statements - killing people since the birth of evorhees!
Don't be a fool. You know damn well that the keypool had 100 addresses, so the analogy would be more like "here is enough gas to get you there, but it might not be enough to get back". Or even "here is enough for a few round trips, but you will have to learn how to refuel eventually".

If you are so good at writing concise, understandable articles that are suitable for a reader to digest in one sitting - well then be my guest. Everyone will thank you for it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: terrytibbs on April 18, 2012, 11:28:11 PM
Don't be a fool. You know damn well that the keypool had 100 addresses, so the analogy would be more like "here is enough gas to get you there, but it might not be enough to get back". Or even "here is enough for a few round trips, but you will have to learn how to refuel eventually".
Sorry! 100 ounces*.

* May or may not be enough to safely reach your destination. (Disclaimer will be stripped for conciseness.)

If you are so good at writing concise, understandable articles that are suitable for a reader to digest in one sitting - well then be my guest. Everyone will thank you for it.
I'm afraid that last sentence isn't factually correct.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: rjk on April 18, 2012, 11:31:00 PM
If you are so good at writing concise, understandable articles that are suitable for a reader to digest in one sitting - well then be my guest. Everyone will thank you for it.
I'm afraid that last sentence isn't factually correct.
So you agree that you can't do much better and therefore need to STFU?


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: terrytibbs on April 18, 2012, 11:36:49 PM
If you are so good at writing concise, understandable articles that are suitable for a reader to digest in one sitting - well then be my guest. Everyone will thank you for it.
I'm afraid that last sentence isn't factually correct.
So you agree that you can't do much better and therefore need to STFU?
Your reasoning is flawless. A+, would read again.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Explodicle on April 18, 2012, 11:50:32 PM
Here's another one: "Nobody can prevent you from spending it."

The bitcoin wiki saves the day:
Quote
An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:
Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control
Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks
I'm pretty sure an attack that is
* Incredibly expensive...
* Temporary...
* Yet to be accomplished by anyone...
* Indiscriminate against particular users...

Counts as a "caveat". :P You might as well include the threat of someone destroying your keys, that would prevent you from spending it much easier.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Foxpup on April 19, 2012, 01:07:36 AM
Here's another one: "Nobody can prevent you from spending it."

The bitcoin wiki saves the day:
Quote
An attacker that controls more than 50% of the network's computing power can, for the time that he is in control, exclude and modify the ordering of transactions. This allows him to:
Reverse transactions that he sends while he's in control
Prevent some or all transactions from gaining any confirmations
Prevent some or all other miners from mining any valid blocks

Actually, although a 51% attack can prevent transactions from being confirmed, the unconfirmed transactions are still in the network and thus will start gaining confirmations as soon as the attacker loses his 51%. So at worst, an attacker could delay you from spending your coins for some period of time, which probably wouldn't be very long: Since a 51% attack is ludicrously expensive, I think it is safe to say it will only last long enough for the attacker to do a single double-spend, since there's no other way it profit from such an attack and thus no point in maintaining the 51% any longer than that.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: terrytibbs on April 19, 2012, 02:22:04 PM
there's no other way it profit from such an attack
This statement isn't factually correct. There may be many additional incentives.
For example, a bank could profit financially from destroying Bitcoin's image because people would return to the traditional financial system. At $84,349.58 (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/1094) for a one-day 51% attack*, I'd say it's chump change for financial institutions; add in a couple of double-spends, and you'll not only fuck Bitcoin permanently, but even profit!

* Cost amortized over a year of operation. (Caveat will be removed for conciseness.)

To be perfectly fair, I can see how Erik feels the need to make Bitcoin seem like the ultimate thing with absolutely no flaws, seeing how he has a vested interest in seeing it prosper so that he can profit from the increased exchange rate.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Gabi on April 19, 2012, 04:31:08 PM
Currently making a 51% attack is not so expensive for rich people/banks/governments/whatelse


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Foxpup on April 19, 2012, 10:23:47 PM
there's no other way it profit from such an attack
This statement isn't factually correct. There may be many additional incentives.
For example, a bank could profit financially from destroying Bitcoin's image because people would return to the traditional financial system. At $84,349.58 (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/1094) for a one-day 51% attack*, I'd say it's chump change for financial institutions; add in a couple of double-spends, and you'll not only fuck Bitcoin permanently, but even profit!

* Cost amortized over a year of operation. (Caveat will be removed for conciseness.)

You can't add in a couple of double-spends, you can only pull of one double-spend before everyone on the network realises there is something very wrong, at which point everybody will stop accepting bitcoins until the attack is over. Once the attack is over, the network will resume functioning as normal. A one-day 51% attack doesn't fuck Bitcoin permanently, it only fucks Bitcoin for one day.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: terrytibbs on April 20, 2012, 09:08:59 AM
there's no other way it profit from such an attack
This statement isn't factually correct. There may be many additional incentives.
For example, a bank could profit financially from destroying Bitcoin's image because people would return to the traditional financial system. At $84,349.58 (http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/1094) for a one-day 51% attack*, I'd say it's chump change for financial institutions; add in a couple of double-spends, and you'll not only fuck Bitcoin permanently, but even profit!

* Cost amortized over a year of operation. (Caveat will be removed for conciseness.)

You can't add in a couple of double-spends, you can only pull of one double-spend before everyone on the network realises there is something very wrong, at which point everybody will stop accepting bitcoins until the attack is over. Once the attack is over, the network will resume functioning as normal. A one-day 51% attack doesn't fuck Bitcoin permanently, it only fucks Bitcoin for one day.
One double-spend can contain multiple double-spent transactions, fucking over multiple merchants... I don't see your point.

It does fuck Bitcoin permanently. People would lose trust in Bitcoin, and I doubt many would hang around.

Edit: Because the attacker is only mining on top of their own chain, mining profitability would plummet and miners would be forced to leave the game, initiating a vicious cycle where the attack becomes cheaper and cheaper.

One of my favorite posters, SgtSpike, sums this up nicely:
I, for one, would leave Bitcoins altogether if someone was trying to forceably control the Bitcoin network with > 51% of the hashing power.  And I know I'm not the only one...


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: Boussac on April 20, 2012, 05:12:42 PM
Just now getting around to reading it. This is one great article, albeit I did find an error.

Quote
Bitcoin is thus the only currency and money system in the world which has no counter-party risk to hold and to transfer. This is absolutely revolutionary and you should read the preceding sentence again.


Actually this particular paragraph might contain a slight overstatement: it's more accurate to write that bitcoin allows us for the first time in history to spread the counter-party risk on the entire community (of miners) instead of relying on a single counter-party (single point-of-failure).
As such, bitcoin can be said the first ever "community based" monetary system, one that cannot be easily hijacked by a small group of people.

I don't think the miners qualify as counter-party risk. In fact, if they all stopped, I could mine myself ;)

Of course, we could also say Bitcoin has counter-party risk in the internet infrastructure itself... I rely on the cables and electricity and servers. But I think that starts becoming a meaningless definition of "counter party risk".

It is the fact that no single entity or organization is vulnerable or can halt the payment or holding of Bitcoin. THAT is the breakthrough and I thus I think the statement "no counter party risk" is valid.

That’s true: you can replace elusive miners with your own mining rigs, thereby mitigating the counter-party risk.
However that amounts to acknowledging that such risk exists, even with the bitcoin network.

That is the point I was trying to make: bitcoin does not remove the counter-party risk but what bitcoin does is put you in control of the risk.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: terrytibbs on April 20, 2012, 05:34:18 PM
As such, bitcoin can be said the first ever "community based" monetary system, one that cannot be easily hijacked by a small poor group of people.
Fixed that for you.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: evoorhees on April 20, 2012, 06:16:42 PM

To be perfectly fair, I can see how Erik feels the need to make Bitcoin seem like the ultimate thing with absolutely no flaws, seeing how he has a vested interest in seeing it prosper so that he can profit from the increased exchange rate.

Ahh! Heaven forbid one have a vested interest in building something!  One ought not profit from what one builds!  It is a crime against polite society to advocate superior alternatives, for by doing so, matters may be improved and people made better off! To be sure, the only projects worthy of advocacy are those which benefit no person at all, or better yet, let us strive to only advance the creations which reduce profits, wealth, and gains entirely!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - The Libertarian Introduction (a primer on Bitcoin)
Post by: terrytibbs on April 20, 2012, 06:31:43 PM

To be perfectly fair, I can see how Erik feels the need to make Bitcoin seem like the ultimate thing with absolutely no flaws, seeing how he has a vested interest in seeing it prosper so that he can profit from the increased exchange rate.
It is a crime against polite society to advocate superior alternatives, for by doing so, matters may be improved and people made better off!
But how can the readers know whether it is superior when you intentionally and purposefully exclude any negative details, while including completely false information (which you have yet to address and/or edit, incidentally).

https://i.imgur.com/39M13.gif