Bitcoin Forum

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Pirate name = ME GUSTA
I will use this.

If Pirate's name "te gusta" you better "use" the real deal...

At least one of the backers of PPT actually knows Pirate in real life (if you read enough, you can work out who).  I have had my pirate account since December and have had greater than 100% return, he has been responsive to requests and has good liquidity (for the occasions I've needed a quick 500 coins for different things).  But the point is, you don't need to necessarily trust Pirate as the bonds are back by reserved coins in the PPT business, and by six people who value their reputations and business in the bitcoin world.

So from here, it's safe to say that if SHTF, it's possible to approach pirate in rl to get the moolah back?

So If I understand correctly... What you are offering allows people who dont have the 100BTC minimum deposit to be involved and make abit of $$ ?

thanks for that :)

Every traded on e-bay?  Paying money to someone on the other side of a trading account?

Trusting someone hiding behind a forum account is what I do in the lending section - I've send hundreds of coins to people I don't know (literally tens of thousands of dollars) and got back most of them.  That's partly why interest rates are high, but losses are manageable and most people are basically good (or at least neutral).  There are a few who are just scum.

Pirate has spent a lot of time building his businesses and making things work.  He is one of the more trusted traders on bitcoin-otc as well.

Well, that is the point, you can invest 1btc or many.

Also, different people have different circumstances.  When I started with bitcoins I was buying at $16, and ended up with a paper loss of several thousand dollars.  Other people can't afford that, so might have only purchased 10 rather than 100  (or a few hundred).  I've been building my stake for a while now, and manage my risk and position.  I can afford to lose 2000 coins, but that would hurt a little.  However, I have a lot more than that tied up in coins currently.

So, what a newbie should do if he would like to invest for example 1 btc??

Get an account on GLBSE.com and bid 1 btc at a price you think will get you in the top 1500.  Or wait a week and put it in the next bond if you think the price would be lower.

Alternatives, stick it into a deposit/bank and get around 1%/wk rather than the 5-7% the ppt bonds are likely to pay.

It depends on if you have a lots or a few coins.  If you are sitting on just 1 coin, that might be a big risk.  If you have 100, it might not matter so much.  Strangely enough, I haven't had any requests for loans from people wanting to buy bonds.

What was the cut off price in the end Burt???

[03:00:22] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 19 @ 1.1 = 20.900000 BTC ]
[03:00:26] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 20 @ 1.083 = 21.660000 BTC ]
[03:00:30] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 1 @ 1.081 = 1.081000 BTC ]
[03:00:34] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 9 @ 1.081 = 9.729000 BTC ]
[03:00:38] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 10 @ 1.081 = 10.810000 BTC ]
[03:00:42] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 1 @ 1.08000001 = 1.080000 BTC ]
[03:00:45] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 5 @ 1.08 = 5.400000 BTC ]
[03:00:49] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 1 @ 1.08 = 1.080000 BTC ]
[03:00:53] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 40 @ 1.08 = 43.200000 BTC ]
[03:00:57] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 92 @ 1.08 = 99.360000 BTC ]
[03:01:01] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 10 @ 1.07901 = 10.790100 BTC ]
[03:01:05] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 1 @ 1.07900001 = 1.079000 BTC ]
[03:01:09] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 14 @ 1.075 = 15.050000 BTC ]
[03:01:13] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 233 @ 1.075 = 250.475000 BTC ]
[03:01:17] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 20 @ 1.073 = 21.460000 BTC ]
[03:01:21] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 20 @ 1.073 = 21.460000 BTC ]
[03:01:25] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 100 @ 1.071 = 107.100000 BTC ]
[03:01:29] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 4 @ 1.0705 = 4.282000 BTC ]
[03:01:33] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 37 @ 1.07001 = 39.590370 BTC ]
[03:01:37] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 500 @ 1.07000001 = 535.000005 BTC ]
[03:01:41] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 10 @ 1.07 = 10.700000 BTC ]
[03:01:44] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 200 @ 1.07 = 214.000000 BTC ]
[03:01:48] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 1 @ 1.069 = 1.069000 BTC ]
[03:01:52] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 40 @ 1.07 = 42.800000 BTC ]
[03:01:56] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 48 @ 1.069 = 51.312000 BTC ]
[03:02:02] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 64 @ 1.068 = 68.352000 BTC ]


and first resell
[03:04:50] <+`MBot> [ GLBSE ] [ TRADE ] [ PPT.A ] [ 4 @ 1.13 = 4.520000 BTC ]

marked

can we do some math here:

if some body would investe 100 btc * 20% = 20 btc of profit

20 btc / 28 days = 0.714285 btc/day

It's much more profitable than mining...

I think posting this targeting newbies is irresponsible.

For the record, I (and many other people) believe that Pirate is operating a Ponzi scheme.  I'd urge all possible investors to research Ponzi schemes (Wikipedia, Bernie Madoff, etc) and decide for themselves whether they want to risk losing their money.

The major advantage of the bonds is that you will lose "only" 68% of your money (or more if the bond authors break their promise), instead of 100%. In exchange for this privilege, your rate of return is half or less of what Pirate is paying out to other people (33.5% / 30 days).

you believe?  where's your evidence?

I believe it isn't a ponzi.   

So...what do you actually do with the money to generate profit?

Basically, what it boils down to is: we (6 of us) each took 400 btc and put it into a fund we don't touch.  the coins just sit there.  We offer ~2k bonds each week, take the money and invest with pirate.  After 28 days, we take the money out and pay each bond holder 1.28 btc.  Whatever is left over, we keep.  If pirate should happen to default, we'll use the 2400 in our reserve fund to pay on the bonds, giving each person about 25% of their money back.  Essentially, we're covering at least 25% of the default.

so to loop back to your original question, we invest with pirate.  We, the 6, make money off the premium that people buy the bonds for.

In fact, our rate of return is <= 28%, and the market decides how much it really is.  Pirate is paying much less than 33.5% to a lot of smaller investors who do not have accounts larger than 2k BTC...

So, because you don't know what is going on, you make up stuff like your bullshit around the lending thread.  You are obviously too lazy to work out what is going on.

I have today discussed with someone their different options.  Their return from priate os zero because they don't qualify.  If they had 100 coins, they could get 4.2% per week.  If they invested in PPT bonds, they might get 7%/week, or maybe less because the clearance rates have been around 2%/week higher.  (we offer 27 day 22 hour bonds, not 30, but that just points out sloppiness on your part.)

If someone wants the full 7% from pirate, they need to put up 2000 coins minimum, and in the event of a default you lose 100%.  At least with PPT it's only 68% and that's better.

Ok. That's a reasonable answer that makes sense. Thank you.

Of course my next questions is, how does Pirate create profit?

Straddle trades? Some kind of bitcoin options? An event-driven hedging technique?

I'm trying to wrap my head around this and other investments I see on this site, but the answers seem to be long on hype and short on substance. I know that when it comes to investing other people's money and actually generating profits, answers to such inquiries tend to be cagey, but briefly explaining one's strategy doesn't reveal the process. Extraordinary alpha over just about any benchmark merits an explanation. What say you, Pirate?

In his original OP he alludes to what he does, but he will not reveal anything more, even with all the prodding that people have done.  So long as he continues to pay as agreed, there isn't a problem.  If this doesn't suit one's risk profile, there are plenty of other operations going on.  It does grow tiresome to have people continue to post the same FUD about ponzi when there's ultimately nothing conclusive to back it up.  I am not saying you're spreading FUD, you asked legit questions that I haven't seen you ask before so they're fair game.

Back to the corner, you!!

so there will not be any european bonds???

Stochastic asked for standard deviations in the other thread, so I build a weighted stdev calculation function in GDocs to calculate these.

PPT.B #2 if you remove the silly 1.3 bid, the stdev falls to 0.00423054

PM sent

Good morning,

I have a few questions about the ppt.div

How long do you expect to continuously payout dividends? I imagine that an answer for that is *estimated*, but an estimate is still expected.

Do you see the PPT.div expiring or being discontinued at anypoint within the next 6 months? *estimates* on this are also acceptable as no one can predict the future.

At what date do you have to own the share to receive the dividend for that share? For example, I personally purchased shares yesterday (06/25/12). When can I expect my first dividend payment?

Also, I'm assuming dividend payments get credited directly to your "brokerage* account, correct?

Is there any way to reinvest dividends? If not, it might be worth looking in[Suspicious link removed] You could still maintain the 9000 share count and base dividend reinvestments on open buy orders based on the payout amount (Could be manipulated, probably not a good idea).

OR

When it comes time to do dividend payments, you can try to *buy-back* shares at a set premium based on the volume of dividend payments that want to be revested and either A) buy all shares back at a small premium and the redistribute the shares appropriately (according to the amount of people that want to have their shares revested) or, B) If there aren't as many willing to sell based on the buyback, issue a partial revestment and a partial payment. The work could be more painful, especially weekly.

I understand that the reinvestment may not be possible to do the brokerage itself.


Answering those questions might shed some light on those "dividend" chasers that aren't into *risky* or *get rich quick* shindigs, because I didn't find much info on the PPT.div, I decided to ask in the thread itself.

Good work and thanks for the effort that you've put forth in trying to keep this market going.



*A little about me*

I invest in dividend stocks on my own time and work for a bank. I do mine for BTC for profit currently. I am also really interested in getting a FPGA set-up going, but still establishing *advanced* technical know-how.

Cheers!!! :D

You're the best!!!! Thank you so much and everything sounds great!!!


Good work on laying the "ground-work" for the future of trading shares of companies in BTC.

Do you provide this estimated income/dividend info somewhere more regularly or was this a one-off? Haven't seen updated info anywhere.

I will check this when I get more coins  :D

If I buy these will you back them with gold or silver?  Preferably physical coins or bars.  Thanks.

This is a high risk investment. There is a significant chance that you won't get any of your money back. So if you invest, please do it only with a small fraction of your money.

Some people, including myself believe this is a Ponzi Scheme (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme). So I recommend not investing at all, but if you do, be careful and don't invest too much. If you're interested why people think this is or isn't a Ponzi, look into other sub-forums, such as the trading forum.

If one was to buy, what exactly would one be investing in?

From the FAQ:
If you mean eventually, only Pirate (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=50822) knows. Live with it or do not invest.

New to this. Will be putting 20-25% of my initial BTCs into one of the best PPTs as my high risk portion.

I can haz 7% too? xD

I think the word "Ponzi scheme" is overused, but this must be true. It seems more naked than most because there's not even an attempt to explain how the "fund manager" is generating profit. And even if they did generate profit, it would raise the question about why they don't self-finance. A credit card cash advance, for example, would be much cheaper to the "fund manager" without the overhead of making a zillion tiny deposits/repayments.

It's a scam almost by definition, just waiting for an opportune moment to never be seen again.  Compare all the similar scams that happened on Second Life, which were shaken out at the same time when Lindon banned casinos.

Yet a lot of the folks here get riled up and defend it against common sense advice?  I don't get that.

Sounds like debating whether the earth is round. Not a stimulating debate...

Makes sense to point out that it's a scam on the newbie thread, but I imagine I'll leave the believers elsewhere in peace.

Third PPT.x sell back for me. Everything working like a charm. Thank you.

I completely agree. If Pirate was actually able to make the returns he claims to, there is 0 reason why he wouldn't be doing it on actual exchanges where there is more liquidity and leverage.

In my view, regardless if BTCS&T is a ponzi scheme or not -- BTCS&T and the various PPT bonds are bad for bitcoin.

First: the 7% weekly return is going to kill mining bonds. They can't compete with that rate. More and more bitcoin investment is going to go into these pirate bonds and miners will no longer have the capital necessary to improve their hardware and remain competitive. Perhaps this is pirateat40's plan?

Second: There is no legitimate way for a business to make a profit while paying a weekly interest of 7%. Pirateat40 must be engaged in something illegitimate (at best), though it is more likely to be something illegal, if not a ponzi scheme. Whatever it is, it can only be bad for bitcoin, and the bigger his operation gets, the worse the outcome will be. Don't support his activities.

So, I implore everyone to ratchet down their greed a little. For the good of bitcoin, please settle for 2%-3% per week, avoiding the pirate bonds even if they pay twice that. You will still get a great return -- 2%-3% per week is ridiculous in real-world terms (long-term Treasury bonds pay only the equivalent of 0.05% per week).

It's very clear these rates can't be paid much longer!

Relatively few such posts, however, as you're hocking this crap to newbies. Shame on you.