Bitcoin Forum

At the onset, this thread has two purposes: Which smartphone should I get and to discuss various models and best uses in relation to Bitcoin, of which may become an ongoing dialog.

In the next few days, I'll be getting a smartphone, for I'll need it to better demonstrate Bitcoin to potential new users. Early last year, I did have the new Android HTC and Verizon, but discontinued the service due to not being able to use it in the middle of nowhere where the barns were located. I calculated that I lost tens of thousands of dollars due to lost sales those close to three weeks. It was even a nightmare to revert my primary number back to my Walmart Tracfone. I will keep the Tracfone, for it's the one that works most anywhere, and use the smartphone for the populated areas. Pretty smart of me, eh? But I digress.

That said, which smartphone should I consider, coupled with which carrier? I won't be streaming movies or watching many videos on the phone, but will probably do a lot of web surfing. That should be the extent of my bandwidth usage. Moreover, the device will be used and shown to others for Bitcoin demonstrations.

Which smartphone do you use and with which carrier? Are better phones and services coming out over the horizon, and how easy is it to change out one phone to another (with the same carrier, provided I'm not locked in a contract) when a better phone does hit the market?

Thank you, in advance.

~Bruno~

Get a Samsung Galaxy S2
4.27'' AMOLED display, Android 4, Gorilla Glass etcetc... I love to see a iphone with his "retina display" (wich is just a norma lcd display) pale when compared to the GS2 AMOLED

Better phones coming out? Yes, the Galaxy S3 in some months.

There are always better phones on the horizon, but frankly, Im still using my old LG P-500 upgraded to Android 2.3 and while it doesnt feel super fast while browsing, it actually does all I need, and then some. HIgher res screen would be nice, but I dont like carrying enormous bricks around either.

For the bitcoin apps out there, just about any android (2.3+) phone on the market would be fine, if not overkill.

+1

Very nice suggestion, Gabi. I just viewed this video: Samsung Galaxy S2 vs HTC Sensation vs iPhone 4 Screen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UgDpwaDh78).

I look forward to reading other suggestion on phones (which I see are coming in) as well as comments of the various carriers.

~Bruno~

IPhone 4 battery > Android. I charge my phone may be once every 2 days... And the size is perfect. I don't need larger phones.

I use both iPhone and Android, because I have been developing for both platforms.

I would say that android devices actually suck more from user perspective. The software is often buggy, and the device hardware seems cheap. However it is more open than iPhone, and you have more bitcoin software etc.

iPhone offers superior user experience IMHO, however it is more closed platform.

Please specify "android devices"

Since you are speaking about iphone, i expect that the android device is the Galaxy S2 or an equivalent. And sorry but the GS2 is better than the iphone

Sure, there are some 200$ android devices that sucks, it's true, but ehi they are cheap. You can't compare a 600$ iphone with a 200$ android.

I have a samsung galaxy S2.
it works great :)

I second that.

Get the Samsung Galaxy S2.

Yesterday a friend got the Sony Xperia so I compared the phones for quite some time.
The Sony have a higher screen resolution, a little faster processor etc.
(But you wont notice the difference.)

The Sony Xperia screen lacks the oumph in colors. They look bland.
When surfing the higher screen resolution did not make it easier to read text, maybe even harder.

It got less battery time and the interface although good, is not as good.
Though its still a topnotch phone.

It has slightly better camera that can be accessed with a button, without having to unlock the phone and it can be connected with Hdmi straight to a TV, thats nice.

Go with any of those.

Do not get Iphone. They are made of glass.

But if you got big pockets, and I don´t mean deep, I mean big as in really big.
Get the Samsung Note. Its quite big which makes it great for surfing, really good batterytime etc.





 

oh, and did I mention that I bought it with bitcoins, using spendbitcoin.com :)

While you're right in general, the average quality of software is lower.  It's not true that all software for android is low quality.  It's simply that being an open market allows the crap to get through too.

With android you have to be willing to try a few apps to find the best one; or read some reviews, or go off recommendations.  If you do that, android software is fine.

For me, the advantages of having a freer market (and hence am able to choose from a wide variety of, say, bitcoin software) outweighs any disadvantage from having to try three apps to find one that doesn't suck for any particular job.

Don't forget the killer feature of Android though: it doesn't require iTunes.

As to "cheap hardware"... you get what you pay for.  If you buy a £99 ZTE Blade, then you can't really complain that it's not as good as a Samsung Galaxy or a HTC One.  The advantage, again, of Android is that you get to choose hardware to suit you.  For example, I like a phone that uses a full size SIM and has the ability to use extra SD storage.  There is an Android phone for me.  There isn't an iPhone for me.

Sorry I didn't specify earlier, I have HTC Desire. It cost something like 500 euros when I bought it maybe 1,5 years ago, and I think it is crappier than iPhone 3GS.

However of course things have progressed since then. I haven't tried out Samsung Galaxy S2. However I'm pretty sceptical that it has better user experience than iPhone 4S. I have seen some, being used by my friends.

Get a phone with NFC.

I had a Nexus One a while ago, it sucked compare to Iphone 4. I also had T-Mobile G1... Which was crap as well... The original Iphone was so much better.

I have a Galaxy Tab, which is unusable with 2.3 firmware - too slow.

I am pretty much done with Androids now, they were all crap and overpriced.

Each to his own I suppose; I've got a HTC Desire too and find it perfectly acceptable.

My friend has a 3GS and it's definitely showing its age; whereas the Desire is as good as it ever was.  If nothing else, being able to install BitcoinSpinner et al makes it worth having an android.

I'm waiting on the Samsung Galaxy SIII!!!!

Very happy with my S2, i don't understand the comment above about iPhone having superior battery life?
I can run about 3 days on my S2 (that is if i don't watch youtube movies all day long... xD), just regular calling, messaging, looking up  some stuff on the internet.
When surfing a lot and watching videos, having all kinds of messengers logged on, facebook tumbler stuff like that, yea it's  drained in a day then.

i'd get a Samsung Galaxy Nexus i9250
-android 4
-nfc
-amoled

Android 4.0 (Ice Cream Sandwich) is the most polished version to date.  As far as hardware I highly recommend the Galaxy Nexus.  It is one of only a few device already running 4.0, and it will be the first device to get updates directly from Google.   Also has NFC and a large, sexy screen for showing off the Bitcoin clients.

In regard to service, I'm a little surprised Verizon doesn't offer the best signal out there where the barns are located.  Your Walmart Tracphone is likely piggybacking off Sprint's CDMA network, so you might want to consider Sprint also.

In regard to switching out devices, you can't beat AT&T and T-Mobile (both GSM networks).  Switching phones is as easy as moving your SIM card.  And all the cool European/Asian import phones tend to be GSM. (T-Mobile USA doesn't offer the Galaxy Nexus, so I bought an unlocked GSM model from the UK)

+1 on the Samsung Galaxy SII:

1. Awesome screen. (size is perfect for me, bigger than iphone)
2. Great battery life. I use it hard (high-res gaming, video) and it lasts nearly all day.
3. Tough beast. Dropped mine on gravel while riding my bike. Not a mark on it with just a silicon skin + screen protector.
4. Very popular, there will be are tons of accessories for it.
5. Great camera.
6. Fast.
7. Super thin and not heavy.
8. Android rules.

I love my Galaxy Nexus. Took me about 2 months to decide on the phone and couldn't be happier. To me the GSII is a slightly better phone, but I am a fan of the GNex design. I have compared it to my friends iphones (cdma) and what stands out most is the iphones small dull display (even with the retina display) and large weight.

This.  Now data might be a little different than voice but since you report good signal quality on the Walmart special Sprint is likely your best bet.

What does 20 megapixel multiple cameras, high resolution display, and a mr fancy pants logo got to do with running a ledger app? Apples are over-priced electronics for fashion-conscious hipsters.

I'm cheap and never got a smart phone until last December.  When I did, I found the most cost effective option for me was to get a Virgin Mobile phone & plan.

They have a 1,200 minute plan with unlimited (now I think it's limited to 2GB) data & text for $45 per month.   And there's no contract.

The phone cost me $100 on Black Friday.  I bought an LG Optimus Slider because I wasn't ready to give up a keyboard for the typing on screen 100%.  I like my keyboard.  The phone is definitely an older model (like 1 year old) and only has a 3.2 inch screen.

Hope this is helpful if you're looking for a bargain...

If you want flashy new phone, I think that'll cost you on average around $600 over two years for a Verizon latest & greatest phone plus the extra higher monthly bill.

Not really. My iphone 4 was $200 a year ago with 2 year plan. My galaxy tab was 600, which is worth what 50 now?

Yea, I can still sell my iphone 1 for over 50.

I was suggesting the GS2 in my post  ;)
iFail is crap, "blablabla retina display"->a normal lcd display wich disappear when compared to an AMOLED display

I don't really get why the hate. In my experience, Apple devices have always had superior usage time compared to other mobiles. Of course the software is locked etc.

But really, windows phone? You really recommend that over Apple? OK, I think you have something personal against apple devices... :D

with locked software you will never be able to use a real wallet on your phone.
you will need to trust a web-based wallet service.

Well, there is FriendlyPay and BitPak that are available for the iPhone

ok, I did not know about Bitpak.

FriendlyPay uses Instawallet, according to their website.
does that mean it runs javascript from the web, or does it have its own crypto module?

I wouldn't recommend BitPak, it downloads the full blockchain, therefore it requires lots of time to initialize and storage to store the chain.
FriendlyPay sits on Instawallet, it uses the documented API, so it doesn't need to do any crypto.

Instawallet is being rewritten from scratch, currently it can be very slow (it relies too much on the bitcoin client which isn't able to handle multiple requests concurrently).

In a few days, when the new Instawallet is live FriendlyPay will probably be the best option for anyone looking for a simple wallet for a non-jailbroken iPhone.

Disclaimer : I'm now the lead developer for Instawallet, and I know the person who wrote FriendlyPay ;)

I do not recommend BitPak to anyone - while I appreciate that people are developing these clients, people are reporting block chain download times like 2 weeks with BitPak. Recommending it is a surefire way to get people to hate bitcoin.

If FriendlyPay uses instawallet, it probably doesn't have its own crypto module. It is just a front-end to instawallet. And it doesn't allow sending.

Have to advertise my own service easywallet.org here - if you add it as a bookmark to your iPhone & install the QR Code scanner app (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/barcodes-scanner/id417257150?mt=8), you can send bitcoins back and forth using QR codes. Almost like a native app.

And then there is blockchain.info app, which I haven't tested extensively yet.

It does allow sending coins, without the need of an external QR code reader :)

Well, I misunderstood the app description (http://itunes.apple.com/de/app/friendlypay/id473941791?mt=8)

Perhaps they should advertise the sending functionality a little better, because if you read the test you understand from it that the app is only for receiving...

That is correct

I appreciate the mentions on the various Bitcoin apps as well.


Are you saying that the whole blockchain is then stored on the phone as an app?

in re. phone choices:

I have nothing against Apple, but will probably lean towards a Windows based OS.

I'm currently leaning toward the Samsung Galaxy S2.

That said, which carrier options should I consider and which ones should I stay away from?

Please continue the discussion on the various Bitcoin apps as well.

Thank you, all, who've contributed to this thread, to date.

~Bruno~

I have a Nexus S 4G on Sprint and love it. It has NFC and as of last week, Ice Cream Sandwich. My only complaint is the lack of physical keyboard (soft is OK for some things but SSH works best with a physical keyboard). It also has no SD card slot but that's not a huge deal to me because I don't store lots of media so the 16G internal USB storage is fine for me.

The blockchain gets recorded in a per-app storage space which is IMO sub-optimal.

This leaves three types of possible wallets :
 - full bitcoin node like BitPak (requires lots of storage, lots of connectivity, IMO a bad option)
 - key-storage on the device like blockchain.info (good option if you're serious about backups and know what you're doing)
 - hosted wallet like Paytunia (in beta (https://paytunia.com/blog/paytunia-for-iphone-now-in-invitation-only-beta)), FriendlyPay (good option if you want to take advantage of automatic backups and cold-storage, spend limits, push notifications, automatic green address sends, much better integration into exchanges etc.)

I don't think that any of the two last approaches is inherently better than the other, they just address different use-cases and targets. I think blockchain.info is preferable for advanced or technically literate users who don't mind taking care of their own security, while the hosted wallet approach better addresses everyday payments use cases and regular users. Both approaches are best suited for moderate amounts IMO.

you forgot to mention Electrum: http://ecdsa.org/electrum/android.html
transactions are signed on the device, but you do not need to do any backups, because it is a deterministic wallet.
in addition, if they use the same seed, the wallet on your android phone is automatically synchronized with your desktop wallet.

more info here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=75617.0;topicseen

You're right! Sorry about that!

I personnaly am not a big fan of limiting one's wallet entropy to a single seed, but I'll admit that it's a very clever idea!

What if smartphones were pre-installed with the blockchain, then automatically updated when the phone is on?

~Bruno~

How would that change anything? (or maybe you're being sarcastic :D)

I was serious, though my wording could have been better.

I simply envisioned (a) smartphones to have the blockchain pre-installed prior to purchasing them. I was wondering how practical this would be, and its feasibility in the future.

~Bruno~

huh??? using multiple seeds because you believe that a single seed does not give you sufficient protection is a terrible idea.

the only thing that matters is how much bits of entropy protects your money. if you believe that your seed/private key/password/whatever is not long enough, the correct strategy is to use a longer one, not to split your assets in order to limit damage.

FYI, Electrum default seeds have 128 bits of entropy, and standard Bitcoin addresses have 160 bits of entropy.

I'm not sure it would be very practical for manufacturers (they'd have to update the chain constantly), for users (they'd have to give up significant storage space), and for cellular networks.

I never said it would be a good idea to use multiple seeds.
I'm simply stating that using a seed to deterministically generate an potentially infinite sequence of adresses is not neutral from a security POV since you're basically limiting the entropy of your complete key collection to the entropy of the original seed. Which according to you is (by default) even lower than the entropy provided by the random generation of a single address.

I believe that a 128 bits seed is safe given today's technology. However, I am not an expert cryptographer; I formed this belief from discussions with Bitcoin developers. If you think that 128 bits is not sufficient please let me know.

However, if you believe that the seed is long enough to be safe, then there is absolutely no reason to increase the entropy of your wallet by using random keys. I suppose that you have read a very different argument, about the fact that a wallet using random keys is "permanently unstolen", and that you are somehow confusing that argument with the entropy of a wallet. That argument is about an attacker gaining access to an old version of your wallet, and it has nothing to do with entropy.

I just did the math. Looks like it is ridiculously safe.

Time in billions of years it would take to exhaust seed space at 1 billion seeds/second --> http://tinyurl.com/6uy9acm

It is safer than it intuitively looks like I guess :)

If you get an Android phone, I would recommend you use "Bitcoin Wallet" app by Andreas Schildbach. Do NOT use the app by Bitcoin Labs - it has serious issues with bitcoins that appear to be sent but are actually not.

There's also Paytunia that does good job if you don't want to download the full chain and don't mind using a hosted wallet.

I would not recommend it to newbies, because most people would not know how to backup their key from a mobile phone.
Should anything happen to the mobile device or app, the bitcoins are lost.

In contrast a true "light" client like Paytunia is a safer option: if the device is lost, the coins are safely stored and recovered from the server.

First off, thanks to everybody who helped in my decision making. I've decided to take French for two semesters.  ;D

Seriously, I purchased the Samsung Galaxy SII Titanium with T-Mobile. Not sure if I made the correct choice, for it took over eight hours to get the phone activate--SERIOUSLY! The first three hours, I tried to do it on my own. No joy! I couldn't get pass the Google sign in/up stage. Then I went on live and chatted with a rep on the Samsung site. She finally told me that she couldn't help me and that I needed to contact T-Mobile, of which there office closes at 10PM. So I went to chat with a T-Mobile rep online. After about a half hour, she couldn't help me either, but was kind enough to give me a phone number to call. The same number I already had at my disposal but it was after 10PM. I tried it anyway. Guess what? I got lucky and was able to get a live rep, for she was on the West Coast. (Yes, all three support individuals were women and spoke English and, yes, at one point I thought I was being scammed because of this fact.  ::)) After being on the phone with the T-Mobile girl for over an hour, she finally said that there was nothing she could do, but offered up one finally solution. She told be go outside and see if I can get better reception. So, with a phone in each hand, I went to the door to open it, but my hands were full. Fortunately, I dropped the $500 Samsung smartphone, freeing up one hand to open the door. I opened the door, then picked the now dented phone and the battery that fell out of the back, as well as the back cover. On instinct, I placed the battery back into the phone and, guess what? The phone started working. She kindly informed me that that's what we should have done first--take out, then re-install the battery.

Now, I'm a proud owner of a dented smartphone that has a screen that no longer rotates when I rotate the phone. And it's all Bitcoin's fault. Therefore, I'm going sue Bitcoin for all my hard-aches.  ;)

C'est la vie!

~Bruno~

If you use blockchain app, it uses the same wallet as the online one, so its already backed up in the cloud, and from the site, you can easily email an ecrypted backup to yourself.

Phinnaeus it's not our fault if you buy the phone with T Mobile :D

What about the next time you just buy the phone? Like you go to the shop, you say "i want to buy this", you pay and that's all? What i don't understand is why in USA people just don't buy the phone and then just put in their card

That's rarely an option, because many phones are subsidized by the carrier. And, the carrier locks the phone to their network, making it impossible to switch. You could buy an unlocked phone from some places, but they cost a lot more.

Did I recommend the Samsung s2? I´m sorry I mixed it up. This is the phone you should have gotten ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwIVf2nqJsg

I´m sorry to hear but you should be lucky you got the Samsung. The iphones are made of glass, they break if you look at them to long.
I went to three different stores, they all told me that they got back Iphones that where broken from falls but Samsung was one of the best at taking hits.

Samsung s2 vs iphone 4 droptest:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKJp9EMRjXY

You can check if the gyro is broken by dialing *#0*# this will take you to a "hidden" test menu.

Fixed that for you.

Subsidised phones, when you consider the amount you pay over the contract period, are considerably more expensive.  If you've got cashflow problems, then perhaps its better for you to pay for it over 18 months; but everyone else would be better off paying the up front price for an unlocked phone, then negotiating an amazing deal from the carrier.  Which isn't hard to do at all.

I bricked my LG optimus trying to upgrade it to android 4, so I looked for a cheapish replacement and found this:
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/803232/211505324-557211424/Titan-X310e-Android-4-0-ICS-4-3-inch-Phone-MTK6575-1GHz-CPU-512MB-RAM-4GB.html

I actually ordered it on ebay for GBP 154,99.

Its a chinese no name phone, fake HTC I guess, under the hood its the same phone as the zopo ZP100;  specs look pretty damn decent and plenty good for me (1GH single core Cortex A9, high res screen, dual sim, dual camera etc), and Ive seen a few user reviews that all say its actually a fantastic phone except for rather poor GPS reception. I can live with that given the price is only a fraction of an otherwise more or less comparable galaxy S2. Its actually cheaper than most second hand Galaxy S1s Ive seen.

Here is a youtube clip of the phone in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hax0HkHxpYA&feature=related

Thought Id let you know in case someone is looking for a mid range 4.3" android phone and doesnt want to spend more on it than on a second hand car :).

I recommend going into a CEX or cash converters (in the UK) and picking up a "new" phone there. people with contracts go and drop brand new models in for next to nothing. they then sell.

I got a Motorola XT910 for 279GBP. Its flawless, headphones werent even opened.

Exactly and prepaid is growing up.  

Unlocked Samsung Galaxy Nexus (from Google) - $400
$35 per month prepaid plan from T-Mobile  (granted this plan only has 100 voice minutes but there are other options)
3% discount from Tangible Cryptography for paying with Bitcoins.
2 years of service & hardware = $400 + 0.97*35*24 = $1214
Saying good bye to contacts forever.  Priceless.

Now compare that to what a "low cost" top of the line Android phone w/ locked in contract is going to cost you. :)
Remember that "$60" plan is more like $75 to $80 when you include all the fees, taxes, service charges, 9/11, USF, etc.  
$35 (or $45 or $60) prepaid plan already includes all taxes & fees.

I would read through this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84669.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84669.0) first. I would not even consider an iPhone or for that matter any other phone in a "walled garden" such as a Windows phone for Bitcoin.

That leaves Android phones, but check first that the ability to install applications outside the Android market has not been disabled by some dinosaur carrier. Also phones running GNU / Linux with third party GPLv3 / AGPLv3 code where such code needs root access in order to be modified are a good choice because they cannot be locked down for licensing reasons.

Your best option is an "unbranded" unlocked no contract phone.

This is honest pretty much impossible to beat:
https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=galaxy_nexus_hspa

Carrier locks suck for a lot of reasons.  It makes the phone worthless if you wan't/need to leave the carrier.  They know this and that is why they do it.  Also carriers are horrible for upgrading phones to latest version.  Lots of people got trapped on Android phones which were Android 2.x capable but the carriers simply never upgraded them (and you can't unless you root them).

Just got a Google nexus cell..

Crazy awesome phone...

There is nothing this cell cant do..  and has NFT  near field tech..