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Title: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Chef Ramsay on September 10, 2014, 12:48:04 AM Quote Washington (AFP) - The US Air Force has told a sergeant he will have to leave the military unless he agrees to take an oath with the phrase "so help me God," officials said Tuesday. In the latest religious controversy to roil the air force, the atheist airman last month was denied his request to re-enlist because of his refusal to swear to God -- and he is now poised to take the military to court, his lawyer said. "We have not received word from the Air Force regarding our letter. It has not indicated a willingness to settle out of court," said Monica Miller, an attorney for the American Humanist Association, which has taken up the service member's case. With the deadline for re-enlisting expiring in November, the technical sergeant at Creech Air Force base in Nevada -- whose name has not been released -- will be forced to sue the government in a federal court, Miller told AFP.]Washington (AFP) - The US Air Force has told a sergeant he will have to leave the military unless he agrees to take an oath with the phrase "so help me God," officials said Tuesday. In the latest religious controversy to roil the air force, the atheist airman last month was denied his request to re-enlist because of his refusal to swear to God -- and he is now poised to take the military to court, his lawyer said. "We have not received word from the Air Force regarding our letter. It has not indicated a willingness to settle out of court," said Monica Miller, an attorney for the American Humanist Association, which has taken up the service member's case. With the deadline for re-enlisting expiring in November, the technical sergeant at Creech Air Force base in Nevada -- whose name has not been released -- will be forced to sue the government in a federal court, Miller told AFP More...http://news.yahoo.com/atheist-must-swear-god-leave-us-air-force-232153866.html;_ylt=AwrTWf2zlg9UkzAA5rLQtDMD (http://news.yahoo.com/atheist-must-swear-god-leave-us-air-force-232153866.html;_ylt=AwrTWf2zlg9UkzAA5rLQtDMD) Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Bonam on September 10, 2014, 06:47:35 AM Seems crazy that in this day and age it would still be required to swear to God and not have an alternative option.
That being said, as an atheist, I'd have no problem swearing to god, since it's just another meaningless word. I could swear to god, superman, the flying spaghetti monster, or any other fictional construct my employer might ask me to. Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Balthazar on September 10, 2014, 07:03:52 AM https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=757654.0
The same shit. Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Sindelar1938 on September 10, 2014, 07:16:56 AM Yep, it is strange that this has been allowed to make headlines and not been settled
Guess the army's hand is being forced by conservative interests Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: cryptodevil on September 10, 2014, 08:09:17 AM That being said, as an atheist, I'd have no problem swearing to god, since it's just another meaningless word. That's what they frequently cite as a reason for why atheists should swear the oath to their god, because it wouldn't matter to the atheist so why do they keep complaining about it? After all, you know, that kind of justification never leads anywhere dangerous(!) We're so busy looking to the Islamic countries as examples of the dangers of fundamentalist theism, The West seems to have missed the fact that much of the US is as deeply entrenched in their own version of 'the acceptable insanity'. You don't 'fix' someone else's rabid dysfunction by telling them that your version of the same dysfunction is right and theirs is wrong. You don't tell people what to think, that's indoctrination, instead, you teach people how to think for themselves outside of the incessant fallacious argument they are conditioned to accept without (critical) thought. You teach them criticial thinking skills and objective reasoning in order for them to be able to make sense of the world around them. As I tell my children, the only way we will ever find peace as a species is to grow beyond our infantile superstitions and religions, and the only way to achieve that for people who are conditioned to maintain the intellectual dishonesty that theism requires, is to educate the crap out of them. Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Nemo1024 on September 10, 2014, 08:28:41 AM Seems crazy that in this day and age it would still be required to swear to God and not have an alternative option. That being said, as an atheist, I'd have no problem swearing to god, since it's just another meaningless word. I could swear to god, superman, the flying spaghetti monster, or any other fictional construct my employer might ask me to. Ditto. Moreover, such an oath would technically not be binding, as opposed if you, for example, were swearing to the Constitution. Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: medUSA on September 10, 2014, 10:25:48 AM Before I read the article, I thought this is rather backward for the US. Having read it, this is an isolated incident. This could be the last few branches which still enforces this rule:
Quote "This is the only branch to my knowledge that's actually requiring everyone in all instances to use the religious language," Miller said (an attorney for the American Humanist Association) Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: cryptodevil on September 10, 2014, 10:49:59 AM Having read it, this is an isolated incident. This could be the last few branches which still enforces this rule: http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/ Is full of examples of how this sort of incident is just more of the same from the right-wing Xtian fundies. Numerous incidents of nontheist soldiers and airmen who have experienced direct harassment and threats from the, extremely religious, US military. As they say, you will know they are Christian, by their love(!) Because if you're against their god, you're against 'Murca, dammit! I wonder if Barack Hussein Obama has his war reports served up to him with a picture of a praying US soldier and rousing biblical quotes on the cover? No? Oh, yes, that'll be because he's a Marxist Terrorist who intends to turn the US into an Islamic Caliphate, according to the right-wing media. Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: cryptodevil on September 10, 2014, 11:11:44 AM a true atheist wouldnt care *warning* *warning* 'No True Scotsman' fallacy alert! *warning* *warning* It is not about saying it, it is about being made to say it to satisfy the creeping fungelical demands of the right-wing or suffer the consequence. Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: medUSA on September 11, 2014, 08:16:48 AM a true atheist wouldnt care May be, but some atheists would refuse to take part in any religious ritual, in this case saying "so help me god". Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: dankkk on September 12, 2014, 03:14:01 AM a true atheist wouldnt care An atheist would not want to swear to something they do not believe in. Generally speaking when someone takes an oath, they will swear to god that they are telling the truth, however if someone does not believe in god they will take an affirmation, which is essentially them swearing on their personal honor. Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Nabilo on November 08, 2014, 02:56:14 AM Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Kluge on November 08, 2014, 03:12:00 AM Apparently, Air Force decided to remove the requirement on the same day as the article came out. http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140917/NEWS/309170066/Air-Force-nixes-help-me-God-requirement-oaths
Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Spendulus on November 08, 2014, 03:52:03 AM Apparently, Air Force decided to remove the requirement on the same day as the article came out. http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140917/NEWS/309170066/Air-Force-nixes-help-me-God-requirement-oaths I really think this thread is much ado about nothing. Many phrases are ingrained in language itself, and are used commonly and flippantly, and have no meaning such as the OP alleges. That is a cultural heritage. And FYI, English isn't so bad. Try Spanish, see how many slang and common phrases "invoke the Deity". Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: BADecker on November 08, 2014, 08:26:04 PM Apparently, Air Force decided to remove the requirement on the same day as the article came out. http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140917/NEWS/309170066/Air-Force-nixes-help-me-God-requirement-oaths I really think this thread is much ado about nothing. Many phrases are ingrained in language itself, and are used commonly and flippantly, and have no meaning such as the OP alleges. That is a cultural heritage. And FYI, English isn't so bad. Try Spanish, see how many slang and common phrases "invoke the Deity". This! :) Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: cryptodevil on November 09, 2014, 09:42:37 AM I really think this thread is much ado about nothing. Many phrases are ingrained in language itself, and are used commonly and flippantly, and have no meaning such as the OP alleges. That is a cultural heritage. So if you were a fundamentalist Xtian in the US military and seconded to, say, a middle-eastern unit to train an Islamic force and they required you to say "Insha'Allah" after every mission briefing, you'd have no problem with that? Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: BitMos on November 10, 2014, 08:25:54 PM best Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Lethn on November 10, 2014, 08:50:10 PM best I'm an Anarchist and I laughed at that one LOL :D Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: bluemountain on November 11, 2014, 04:42:30 AM Apparently, Air Force decided to remove the requirement on the same day as the article came out. http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20140917/NEWS/309170066/Air-Force-nixes-help-me-God-requirement-oaths I really think this thread is much ado about nothing. Many phrases are ingrained in language itself, and are used commonly and flippantly, and have no meaning such as the OP alleges. That is a cultural heritage. And FYI, English isn't so bad. Try Spanish, see how many slang and common phrases "invoke the Deity". I am however surprised the airforce did not previously give an option to give an affirmation Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Lethn on November 11, 2014, 10:06:09 AM America seems to pull this kind of shit a lot I've noticed, after doing some digging a lot of them make a big deal about swearing allegiance to the flag, sounds pretty brainwashed to me no matter how you try to paint it because they try to push this stuff on school children as well.
Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: commandrix on November 12, 2014, 03:34:02 PM America seems to pull this kind of shit a lot I've noticed, after doing some digging a lot of them make a big deal about swearing allegiance to the flag, sounds pretty brainwashed to me no matter how you try to paint it because they try to push this stuff on school children as well. True...I didn't think much of swearing allegiance to the flag when I was a kid because I figured it was something everybody did and they're just sounds until somebody assigns meaning to them. And there are days when St. Kitts sounds very attractive if only I could scrape together the $400,000 to buy a chunk of real estate, so maybe the brainwashing didn't work quite as well on us Bitcoiners, am I right? Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: Lethn on November 12, 2014, 03:52:39 PM lol well I'm British so we didn't get as much of that bullshit here thankfuly and it was when I was about 16 that I started learning some real history that I learned the flag saluting is a load of crap, you still do get people like the BBC who genuinely act as if it's your sworn duty to worship a country though, you know, just because you were born there and that's your fault.
Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: cryptodevil on November 12, 2014, 03:57:11 PM Patriotism is such an absurd notion anyway. It's tribalism dressed up in pomp and ceremony.
That's why it's such a go-to for fundies, because it suits their self-important alliance with the image of a powerful entity. Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: ReserviorHunt on November 13, 2014, 06:11:04 AM Too bad.
All these uppity fools thinking universe revolves around them and their feelings. Title: Re: Atheist must swear to God -- or leave US Air Force Post by: dontCAREhair on November 13, 2014, 07:23:46 AM America seems to pull this kind of shit a lot I've noticed, after doing some digging a lot of them make a big deal about swearing allegiance to the flag, sounds pretty brainwashed to me no matter how you try to paint it because they try to push this stuff on school children as well. searing allegiance to the flag is probably not going to go away. It is really something that I have really never understood (and cannot give an explanation) however it is something that many administrations have supported across both political parties. Although the supreme court has found somewhat recently (~10 years ago) that students can choose to remain silent when the pledge of alliance (to the flag) is recited |
