Bitcoin Forum

John Hawkins: Switching directions again, Europe has been moving towards a single currency. Do you think that's a wise move for all the states, some of them, or none of them? Why so?

Milton Friedman: We're in the midst of a wonderful natural experiment. You have a really different arrangement with the euro than we've ever had historically. We've had many cases in which a number of countries have used the same currency. That's when they've used gold or silver as money. But each individual country has been able to control the content of its own money. So while they were using the same commodity as currency, they were always in a position to determine what the terms of exchange were between their own currency and the other currencies.

But the euro is a very different arrangement. For the first time in history, we have essentially an independent central bank for a considerable number of distinct political entities. I, in advance, was very negative about it and have been very negative & pessimistic about it. We'll see how the Europe plan does on the one hand and on the other, how the other countries of the world, the UK, the United States, Japan, which are linked together by flexible exchange rates, we'll see how they do.

So we'll have a really nice, natural experiment just as before the Soviet Union dissolved, we had a natural experiment comparing socialism and capitalism.

...

I believe the Euroland is going to run into big difficulties. That's because the different countries have different languages, limited mobility among them, and they're effected differently by external events.

Right now for example, Ireland and Spain are doing very well, but on the other hand Germany and France are doing very poorly. The question is; "Is the same monetary policy appropriate for all of them?" Germany and France on one hand and Ireland and Spain on the other: it's very dubious that it is. That's why you're having increasing difficulties within the Euroland group. As you probably know Sweden, which had not joined the European Monetary Union, voted down doing so and will keep its own currency.

John Hawkins: Let me ask you about this -- what do you say to people who claim that free trade will eventually lead to high unemployment in the US as large numbers of jobs move to cheaper labor markets overseas?

Milton Friedman: Well, they only consider half of the problem. If you move jobs overseas, it creates incomes and dollars overseas. What do they do with that dollar income? Sooner or later it will be used to purchase US goods and that produces jobs in the United States.

Germany is doing poorly? I thought they were the ones who were going to bail everyone else out...

One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong,
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

According to the theory of Milton Friedman, which I don't know how to dispute, and invite you to comment, the Bitcoin project, which is essentially aiming to be the only currency, to turn the world into a new Bitcoin-naiton, is not good because (a) it will not allow weaker countries to develop, and (b) will not protect strong countries from competition abroad.

Comments?

But each individual country has been able to control the content of its own money. So while they were using the same commodity as currency, they were always in a position to determine what the terms of exchange were between their own currency and the other currencies.

Remember, the term "dollar" and the term "pound" was just two different units of gold mass, pretty much like kilogram and ounce.

bitcoin *is* a local currency. It's the currency of a niche of nerdy crypto-anarchists so far.

You forgot drug dealers, human traffickers, and assassins.  ;)

can you prove that?

Can you *prove* the identity of any Bitcoin transactions?

There's plenty of published addresses.  For example, my firstbits are in my signature.  You can see I've sent a few transactions with that address.

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/4401755/cd7f8895d2a3ad006972105f596fd7cd4661f1f81a6ae370bf7d14f79ef7db03

This transaction links a bunch of my addresses and clearly contains a donation to Armory.

I'm gonna call that a yes.

I'm not.  I'd call it a fail, or at least a dodge.  I asked if he could prove that those afore mentioned criminal activities have occurred.  It was a loaded question, of course, because the only way that he could prove any such thing would be to have access to the private computers of those afore mentioned criminals.  Which, most likely, would mean that those computers belong to himself or someone he personally knows quite well.  Anyone who would use a publicly posted bitcoin address to send funds to a publicly known criminal either doesn't know the criminal part & didn't buy criminal services or is an idiot, and it would be hard enough just to prove one or the other, much less an actual crime.

There's plenty of published addresses.  For example, my firstbits are in my signature.  You can see I've sent a few transactions with that address.

https://blockchain.info/tx-index/4401755/cd7f8895d2a3ad006972105f596fd7cd4661f1f81a6ae370bf7d14f79ef7db03

This transaction links a bunch of my addresses and clearly contains a donation to Armory.

Since I don't know you from Atlas, I'll just have to take your word that those addresses did not pass through a criminal's nose.

I wasn't talking about criminal activity at all.  I was stating that I can prove the identity of some Bitcoin transactions and you asked if "any" could be.

I really don't know what you are saying. In science and the real world, nothing is proven. You are asking me to believe you, which I probably do.

Now I have no idea what you are saying. Nothing is proven? What?

You show me some anonymous addresses that you could have found anywhere and claim they are yours. OK, so what? That proves nothing. If you are going to make a claim, then you need to offer testable evidence that can be verified independently. One possible way would be to give me your private keys and I could see for myself.  :P

He could sign a statement with the addresses' privatekey to verify himself.

So he is using a signature to prove that Silk Road doesn't exist? OK, I'll bite. Besides, that doesn't prove they are his only that he has access to them. This is getting silly trying to explain epistemology and the scientific method to a troll. You can't prove things in RL, you can only show evidence. In mathematics, you can prove perfect geometric shapes, but you cannot find them in nature. Proving an address exists doesn't prove anything about how it is used. Geeks get awfully goddam arrogant sometimes thinking they have answers for everything with a simple algorithm or formula.

Proving silk road doesn't exist? wtf are you going on about...

can you prove that?

Heh, this is where the red herring was thrown in. I added a wink emoticon and someone had to start a major troll over it. I fell for it because I was bored and I was on my mobile.

There was no "major trolling" done by anyone in this topic... Except maybe by you.  You brought up crime and trolling and silk road and even Atlas... Take a breath...