Bitcoin Forum

I'm really curious, because so far the claims were vague at the best.

Threads: A lot of people say, that the team spams the forum with Monero threads, but looking at the Ann (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.0) you can clearly see that there are only 7 threads, that are officialy approved. Though when I search the forum, I see 60 (30 if you exclude mining, though not every topic is a a pool-ann) topics focused around monero (they either include monero or xmr in their title). Most of them are topics focused around "creating negative comments about the devs, the community, the coin itself or the number of threads". With that in mind I think it is safe to say, that this reason is disproving itself

Shills: There are 2 'shills' (fanboys is a better term) of Monero I know about: Nekomata and darkota, though these are legitimate users with legitimate reasons to like this coin, who may get insulting, but atleast hold some integrity. These are no sockpuppets, hence if you look at their old posts you see that they were also big fans of Dogecoin resp. Darkcoin. Trolls like Moneroman88 or AltcoinHimmler (srsly?) are obvious positive trolls/reversed-psychology trolls after we already had a lot of negative trolls like Rias, Chessus, hexah etc. Yes, when Monero is mentioned/Cryptonote is disucussed, often enough some core members/team member may show up, but they are polite, repsectful, friendly and stay objective.

I'm maybe wrong with some of the stuff I've written up, but I'm not really intensively following Bitcointalk. I don't want to discuss whether Monero is any good or
if you think the team is just sitting on their fat asses (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/network) (ofc, that's why they already spent 110BTC for external devs/freelancers/mathematicians/etc) /s
I rather discuss what you hate about the community and whether there are improvement possible

sure heres the exposé of truth 4 u



if u havent noticed monero is utterly annoying, and all of them shills 100%
monero administration is most annoying shitheads ive ever seen in crypto
dont even get me started dude. even just dem rpietila guy alone is worse than all the trolls of bitcointalk combined

they try hard to suck in poor ppl in their garbage scam... but fail hard LOL

~CfA~

No i haven't noticed because this is not a fact, but a feeling, and in this case your own feeling.
So what i can notice is that YOU are pissed off by Monero, which is pretty far from my concern !

Also, another too vague opinion, just expressing your own feeling without any factual evidence.


This one is the best, the menace argument: please dont push me in the state of mind to really express my anger and frustration toward this shitcoin. Too bad you just did. And no one fears you :D

So basically, there are million of reason to love Monero or hate it!

But so far none of the expressed reasons are fact most of them are opinion.

And Opinion are like asshole, everybody has one.

u are wrong - its a fact as u can observe by recent polls. more than 50% of forum believe Monero is annoying as shit

so u are wrong, and ur feeling that its not is utterly irrelevant

~CfA~

Thanks you OP for proving that some people in this community still possess the ability to read without bias.

Yes XMR has a few shills, annoying personality or overexcited investors, like any other alt-coin that exist. Nothing worrisome or war-worthy as long as you make the difference between them and the battery of fake-shills that, on a daily basis, attack everyone in the name of their enemy while brandishing nazi-flags and pictures of gaped assholes on a maximum amount of threads.

There is an obvious smear campaign mixed with real attacks on the network (last one was on 7sept). Someone offered BcX 100btc for information concerning a flaw in XMR code.

Ofc all of that make so much noise, with so much shit being thrown, that barely any outsider that lurk on this section associate XMR with something noisy and smelly, and annoying. That's the point.

Too many threads.

/thread

Oh look it's another monero thread,how interesting

Probably the endless threads about it.

Note: Please stop with the monero threads

Nice coin. I'm in.

I appreciate your honestly.  The reality of the situation is that it appears that this is a hype type situation around a technology that are going to lose a lot of small fishes a lot of money.  By continuing to hype what WILL come crashing down (if not in price first - then by the exploit BCX outlined if it stays a decent sized target).

The entire thing is built around greed of the big guys (see rptellia). 

This overt stab at screwing people over and being dis honest by creating hype about a technology that is NOT ready for prime time has created this backlash.

Too many!

I honestly don't see this "hype" situation you're describing. We don't make promises or say we're going to do something merely to create hype. When we push something out, like with the OpenAlias (https://openalias.org) system we pushed out today, we are already well down the road to having it working, if not completed already (https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/pull/146). Anyone outside of the core team that tries to create hype will have to, unfortunately, deal with out release cycle.

We (the core team) have already stated that we will work on Monero regardless of whether the price goes up or down. Monero is not going to "die", even if the price goes down. The exploit still has more vague hand-waving than actual details. Nonetheless, if such an exploit exists then either we will figure it out over time and patch it, or the exploit will be used and we will patch it (just as we did with the block 202612 exploit).

This, too, will not make Monero "die" any more than Bitcoin "died" in August 2010 when someone created a block with 184 billion Bitcoins (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=822.0;all). They had to suspend the network and roll it back, causing a fork at that bad block. It took over 2 days for the correct fork to win out. In fact, Bitcoin has, over its history, had 23 exploits (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Common_Vulnerabilities_and_Exposures) serious enough to have CVE numbers. And yet it hasn't died. This constant declaration of death because someone manipulates the price or some other person unverifiably claims to "have an exploit" is just silly.


The "big guys" were not around at the beginning, so I can't get how you say that "the entire thing is built around" them. That makes no logical sense whatsoever. Either way, they can be as greedy as they want, they're not affecting us or our ability to develop. Eventually their "greed" will either result in them being rewarded financially, or they will chicken out and leave. Not every early, loud-mouthed Bitcoin proponent is still around.


Again, where is the hype?

Are there proponents of Monero who say that Monero is "amazing" or what have you? Sure. But I have not seen them claim Monero is ready for prime time (in fact, quite the opposite), and I have not seen them claim we're developing anything that we aren't.

Is there some kind of overview what the Monero team has specifically developed beyond forking Bytecoin? Thanks

take a look at the network graph on github and read he missives?

https://github.com/monero-project/bitmonero/network
openalias.org + cn pool software + URS https://github.com/monero-project/urs (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=768499.0) ...


Development is one thing, research is also important:

http://lab.monero.cc/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf
http://lab.monero.cc/pubs/MRL-0002.pdf

Over and above what othe mentioned (and today's OpenAlias (http://openalias.org) release + inclusion in Monero) I put this together in a comment on Reddit, it details the code changes *only* as mentioned in our weekly Monero Missives -

Jun 2nd - first (and only) open source pool mining software for CryptoNote released; block reward penalty fix to prevent penalty attack 
Jun 10th - deterministic wallets based on a mnemonic seed; Doxygen docs begun; major RPC changes: payment_id in transfer RPC call, incoming_transfers RPC call 
Jun 18th - changes to allow for building on Arch; transaction auto-splitting 
Jun 27th - AES-NI support in the hashing function for faster verification; auto-split RPC call added in addition to CLI call; rpcwallet split out on development branch; daemonize forking effort begun 
July 6th - daemonize ready for initial testing; rpcwallet ready for initial testing; tx auto-splitting payment_ID added to transfer_split RPC call 
July 13th - blockchain class refactor begun; daemonize functionality in rpcwallet begun 
July 20th - daemonize now forking on *nix and using services on Windows; get_connections daemon RPC call; get_bulk_payments wallet RPC call added; initial QoS bandwidth control commits 
July 23rd - get_info daemon RPC call added; get_bulk_payments complete, Poloniex deposit processing down from 45 minutes to 17 seconds; daemonize/rpcwallet merged into common branch for testing 
August 3rd - blockchain class rewrite+refactor nearly complete; Windows move from MSVC to mingw/msys2 begun; refresh now takes an optional blockheight from parameter; seed / viewkey commands and query_key RPC call added to allow seed / key retrieval; DNS seeder code released 
August 10th - abstracted blockchain class is now in BlockchainDB; target-specific builds in CMake; OT logging system reimplementation in Monero begun (logging channels, rollover, etc.) 
August 16th - development branch added to github; mingw-w64 / msys2 build operational and ready for testing; wallet code refactor begun; BlockchainDB functionally complete and ready for implementation; GUI interface binaries released 
August 24th to September 7th - spam attack patch; block 202612 attack patch; block 202612 attack mitigation and fork fix (via a whole new block blob hash checkpointing system) 
September 15th - FreeBSD compatability; CMake miniupnpc overhaul to use system miniupnpc if available; static release Makefile target; versioning CMake overhaul to suit and indicate tagged releases; on-demand testnet released and operational; per-kb fees nearly ready for testing; default logging moved; LMDB database implementation begun 

didn't u guys also pay for cryptologists to review the code?

No, they reviewed the whitepaper first, and have been slowly reviewing the crypto parts of the codebase, but that is still in its infancy. They are also focusing on various spheres of research, hence the research bulletins put out by Monero Research Lab. othe linked to the first two -

http://lab.monero.cc/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf
http://lab.monero.cc/pubs/MRL-0002.pdf

was it very expensive to hire them for the review ?  who paid this, rpietila ?

~CfA~

Some of their work has been on a volunteer basis, and some has been paid for, depending on the impact on their time. We (the core team) paid for it out of our pockets, and recovered a small part of what we have spent from donations. rpietila is among the people that have made donations.

HONEST TRUTH: People hate it because it is actually a legitimate, fairly launched, POW, fully anonymous crypto with a solid dev team. They are afraid of it taking over their precious alts.

thats cool, hopefully u guys can figure out the exploit 'story' and fix this in the code should there really be a major threat

certainly will make Monero much stronger than b4

~CfA~

Thanks for the overview, fluffypony

Yep.

I agree with this reason, thread overload.

Everyone expects shills, it's part of the game, but XMR went overboard. For a long time the shills and their paymasters had a free run. Then it got too much, which meant a backlash.

If the shilling stops, and the outrageous claims and idiotic self-moderated threads cease, XMR will get no hate.

Then the fake volume on Poloniex will stop, and we can al get back to normal.

:-)

This is all very true but I would add forked from a project embroiled in a major controversy over a massive premine / ninjamine, faked dates on white papers etc. In short a very legitimate project that in the process of its creation and development ruffled large quantities of very scammy feathers.

I dont have a reason to dislike the coin personally I do think the number of posts and threads annoys some folks from what I have seen.

I wouldn't say it is the sole reason but it is a significant one. Plus every single significant participant in this forum gets hate. It is a vile hate-filled culture.

Most of that is manufactured by trolls and shills who want to stir up hate. It begs the question why the do that.

Lies. There is no other word for it.


Impossible or at least implausible because the shilling is being done by people who want the hate to continue. They have no reason to stop.

I agree with the fact this is a vile hate filled culture but strongly disagree with the idea that's a significant reason XMR gets hate. There's a number of reasons I like XMR and a number of reasons I dislike it.

None of the reasons I dislike it are anything to do with the fact it's a " legitimate, fairly launched, POW, fully anonymous crypto with a solid dev team" and to assume so is trivialising the issue. like saying the truth is the only reason people hate Justin Bieber is because he's a legitimate talented songwriter with more money, fame & girls than whoever hates hates him. Are people not allowed to dislike something without it being written off as them being nothing more than jealous haters anymore?


It's an easy task for any one with an IQ above room temperature to differentiate the shilling of XMR by genuine supporters, and those that were reactionary reverse shills intended to cause hatred towards XMR. To be clear it's not the fake shills I have an issue with- why would I seeing as they are not representative of the actual community- it was the real shills, the real outrageous claims and the real excessive marketing spam that was the issue.

What can I or any member of the Monero team personally do to address your concerns?

Please be careful in your reply not to say things like "stop the shilling" because that assumes I or we have any control or influence over these alleged pro-Monero shills (and we don't, but that's not really the point, I'm simply asking you to not assume we do).

Something like "stop paying shills to promote Monero" is actually a reasonable reply even though my reply would be that there aren't any paid shills (at least not by us).